Get rid of weapon swap CD

[Psycoprophet.8107]

If I want to use sword 3, bow 4 than sword 5 as a rotation or if strategically I'd make sense to do mid fight why can't I?

Seems like all weapon swap CD's do is limit rotation possibilities and basically dumb the combat down. I can understand skill CD's tho. Maybe there's a good reason and I just don't see it.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

No. Let's not create new balance issues

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Well if the devs cant balance not being able to use a weapon when u want or need and have to rely on a CD than I dont know what to say. No wonder the games where it is right now lmao.

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Well if the devs cant balance not being able to use a weapon when u want or need and have to rely on a CD than I dont know what to say. No wonder the games where it is right now lmao.

 

Why would they need to balance it that way? Weapon swap having a cooldown is a design decision and adds a strategic element to both changing weapons as wells a sigils which proc on swap.

 

If they wanted weapon swap to have no cooldown, they could have just given the players more skills and removed the weapon swap. It serves almost no purpose without cooldown from a design standpoint.

[Obtena.7952]

There are way too many mechanics dependent on weapon swap to eliminate it at this point. I don't see a reason to change it.

[c space cowboy.2764]

Let me just laugh in Ele when you remove weapon swap cooldown....

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I can agree to changing it to 5 sec but no cd would not be good.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

As a game redesign. I would be ok with removing the cd on swap if and only if the weapons you swapped out do not cd while they aren't selected. So if you use all 5 skills then switch, when you switch back all 5 skills are still on cd.

This way you can't keep switching back and forth for fresh cd on every skill. The net result would actually be easier to balance.

[Tukaram.8256]

Aren't there bonuses you can get for swapping? With no cool down, there would bound to be some crazy bonus stacking.

From a game point of view it never made sense to me how we swapped weapons during combat without losing a turn... I know it is not turn based... but swapping weapons needs a cool down to make any sense. Not being able to swap during battle makes a lot more sense to me.

[Ubi.4136]

> @"c space cowboy.2764" said:

> Let me just laugh in Ele when you remove weapon swap cooldown....

 

As we throw our heads back in unison.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"SinisterSlay.6973" said:

> As a game redesign. I would be ok with removing the cd on swap if and only if the weapons you swapped out do not cd while they aren't selected. So if you use all 5 skills then switch, when you switch back all 5 skills are still on cd.

> This way you can't keep switching back and forth for fresh cd on every skill. The net result would actually be easier to balance.

 

I was thinking same thing. Weapon cd's stayed as they were so u can't just swap to spam the same skills. I was just thinking I'd at so many more possible rotations plus would allow the weapons and their skills to be used in a more reactionary way as well adding more depth to the combat. Like for example a thief using poison field than cluster bomb swap to sword or dagger to attack than back to sb to IA to kite etc just as an example. Sometimes u know the skill u need and would benefit u in the fit at that moment but unfortunately the weapon swap us on CD and u can't swap. Just think it's a un needed restriction that holds back depth of combat for no real reason. I get the rune bonuses on swap but just give them a cooldown to balance so they work on the CD and not swap.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"c space cowboy.2764" said:

> Let me just laugh in Ele when you remove weapon swap cooldown....

 

I.... am not sure my fingers could handle weaver sword without weapon swap cooldowns... L. M. A. O. !!!!

 

??

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> I can agree to changing it to 5 sec but no cd would not be good.

 

*stares in warrior*

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > I can agree to changing it to 5 sec but no cd would not be good.

>

> *stares in warrior*

 

finally discipline wouldn't feel like such a mandatory choice eh?

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Ubi.4136" said:

> > @"c space cowboy.2764" said:

> > Let me just laugh in Ele when you remove weapon swap cooldown....

>

> As we throw our heads back in unison.

 

...and the Engineer chimes in. ;)

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"c space cowboy.2764" said:

> > Let me just laugh in Ele when you remove weapon swap cooldown....

>

> I.... am not sure my fingers could handle weaver sword without weapon swap cooldowns... L. M. A. O. !!!!

It would be exactly the same as it is now. After all, Ele doesn't have weapon swap, it only has element swap, and we haven't been talking about changing _that_.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"c space cowboy.2764" said:

> > > Let me just laugh in Ele when you remove weapon swap cooldown....

> >

> > I.... am not sure my fingers could handle weaver sword without weapon swap cooldowns... L. M. A. O. !!!!

> It would be exactly the same as it is now. After all, Ele doesn't have weapon swap, it only has element swap, and we haven't been talking about changing _that_.

 

See that’s the thing.. For sigils, it counts as a weapon swap...

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"SinisterSlay.6973" said:

> > As a game redesign. I would be ok with removing the cd on swap if and only if the weapons you swapped out do not cd while they aren't selected. So if you use all 5 skills then switch, when you switch back all 5 skills are still on cd.

> > This way you can't keep switching back and forth for fresh cd on every skill. The net result would actually be easier to balance.

>

> I was thinking same thing. Weapon cd's stayed as they were so u can't just swap to spam the same skills. I was just thinking I'd at so many more possible rotations plus would allow the weapons and their skills to be used in a more reactionary way as well adding more depth to the combat. Like for example a thief using poison field than cluster bomb swap to sword or dagger to attack than back to sb to IA to kite etc just as an example. Sometimes u know the skill u need and would benefit u in the fit at that moment but unfortunately the weapon swap us on CD and u can't swap. Just think it's a un needed restriction that holds back depth of combat for no real reason. I get the rune bonuses on swap but just give them a cooldown to balance so they work on the CD and not swap.

 

Curious, if you want to maintain the cd's on weapon skills you have used but want the ability to keep swapping weapons without a cooldown, how does that really help rotations when your effectively going to be sat waiting to use the skills anyway as they would and should still be on cd.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > @"c space cowboy.2764" said:

> > > > Let me just laugh in Ele when you remove weapon swap cooldown....

> > >

> > > I.... am not sure my fingers could handle weaver sword without weapon swap cooldowns... L. M. A. O. !!!!

> > It would be exactly the same as it is now. After all, Ele doesn't have weapon swap, it only has element swap, and we haven't been talking about changing _that_.

>

> See that’s the thing.. For sigils, it counts as a weapon swap...

It counts like a weapon swap, but it isn't weapon swap. There's only one weapon - elements are a separate mechanic. Similar with engi and kits.

 

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> Curious, if you want to maintain the cd's on weapon skills you have used but want the ability to keep swapping weapons without a cooldown, how does that really help rotations when your effectively going to be sat waiting to use the skills anyway as they would and should still be on cd.

Currently, weapon swap is used to maximise the usage of high-damage weapon skills (so you can use high damage skills of both weapon sets as they go off cooldown, and thus need to use the less damaging skills less often). If the off-weapon skill cooldowns wouldn't refresh, that consideration would go away (barring possibly one swap at opener). You'd go for swaps only for utility, and your main rotation would be limited to single weapon.

That would immensely simplify the rotations, and additionally allow Anet to balance each weapon separately, instead of having to consider all possible combinations.

 

 

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said:

> > > > > @"c space cowboy.2764" said:

> > > > > Let me just laugh in Ele when you remove weapon swap cooldown....

> > > >

> > > > I.... am not sure my fingers could handle weaver sword without weapon swap cooldowns... L. M. A. O. !!!!

> > > It would be exactly the same as it is now. After all, Ele doesn't have weapon swap, it only has element swap, and we haven't been talking about changing _that_.

> >

> > See that’s the thing.. For sigils, it counts as a weapon swap...

> It counts like a weapon swap, but it isn't weapon swap. There's only one weapon - elements are a separate mechanic. Similar with engi and kits.

>

 

I.. get it.. gonna let this go....

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > I can agree to changing it to 5 sec but no cd would not be good.

> >

> > *stares in warrior*

>

> finally discipline wouldn't feel like such a mandatory choice eh?

 

Hey warriors have wanted baseline fast hands since 2013.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"SinisterSlay.6973" said:

> > > As a game redesign. I would be ok with removing the cd on swap if and only if the weapons you swapped out do not cd while they aren't selected. So if you use all 5 skills then switch, when you switch back all 5 skills are still on cd.

> > > This way you can't keep switching back and forth for fresh cd on every skill. The net result would actually be easier to balance.

> >

> > I was thinking same thing. Weapon cd's stayed as they were so u can't just swap to spam the same skills. I was just thinking I'd at so many more possible rotations plus would allow the weapons and their skills to be used in a more reactionary way as well adding more depth to the combat. Like for example a thief using poison field than cluster bomb swap to sword or dagger to attack than back to sb to IA to kite etc just as an example. Sometimes u know the skill u need and would benefit u in the fit at that moment but unfortunately the weapon swap us on CD and u can't swap. Just think it's a un needed restriction that holds back depth of combat for no real reason. I get the rune bonuses on swap but just give them a cooldown to balance so they work on the CD and not swap.

>

> Curious, if you want to maintain the cd's on weapon skills you have used but want the ability to keep swapping weapons without a cooldown, how does that really help rotations when your effectively going to be sat waiting to use the skills anyway as they would and should still be on cd.

 

Cuz u may and prob will have a skill off CD or one u didnt use before swapping? Like if u used poison feild and cluster bomb on thief sb than switched to use some s/d skills than swapped few secs later to use sb evade back or IA. Those rotations are impossible with CD on weapon swap.

[derd.6413]

why stop there? just remove all cooldowns. if anet can't balance that then I donit know what to say. No wonder the games where it is right now lmao.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

> @"derd.6413" said:

> why stop there? just remove all cooldowns. if anet can't balance that then I donit know what to say. No wonder the games where it is right now lmao.

 

A for fun pve event where this was the case would exciting.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > > @"SinisterSlay.6973" said:

> > > > As a game redesign. I would be ok with removing the cd on swap if and only if the weapons you swapped out do not cd while they aren't selected. So if you use all 5 skills then switch, when you switch back all 5 skills are still on cd.

> > > > This way you can't keep switching back and forth for fresh cd on every skill. The net result would actually be easier to balance.

> > >

> > > I was thinking same thing. Weapon cd's stayed as they were so u can't just swap to spam the same skills. I was just thinking I'd at so many more possible rotations plus would allow the weapons and their skills to be used in a more reactionary way as well adding more depth to the combat. Like for example a thief using poison field than cluster bomb swap to sword or dagger to attack than back to sb to IA to kite etc just as an example. Sometimes u know the skill u need and would benefit u in the fit at that moment but unfortunately the weapon swap us on CD and u can't swap. Just think it's a un needed restriction that holds back depth of combat for no real reason. I get the rune bonuses on swap but just give them a cooldown to balance so they work on the CD and not swap.

> >

> > Curious, if you want to maintain the cd's on weapon skills you have used but want the ability to keep swapping weapons without a cooldown, how does that really help rotations when your effectively going to be sat waiting to use the skills anyway as they would and should still be on cd.

>

> Cuz u may and prob will have a skill off CD or one u didnt use before swapping? Like if u used poison feild and cluster bomb on thief sb than switched to use some s/d skills than swapped few secs later to use sb evade back or IA. Those rotations are impossible with CD on weapon swap.

 

Sure, but if you wanted to use that skill why wait for the next weapon swap.. sorry I see this as a dead horse and serves no real benefit other than originally you just wanted to get rid of cd's full stop so you could endlessly swap, spam rinse repeat.. it wasn't until @"SinisterSlay.6973" brought the point up you strangely backpedalled.