Warrior's Cunning

[Ferus.3165]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> Honestly I don't see an issue with an insane multiplier like that. Why? Because Warrior for such a long time easily could stack beyond 50+% damage multiplier just from 2 traits alone (Berserker's Power + that 30% after using a Physical). They know they have to make this previously almost useless traitline appealing to take over those other ones that have such useful traits that are this easy to access.

>

> The only issue with this might be a Core Warrior that tries to get ALL of them for some cheese, but even then one shot warrior already exists and is a one trick pony only.

 

the 30% dmg increase after using a physical skill is looooooong gone.... it's 10% since ages

[Blocki.4931]

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > Honestly I don't see an issue with an insane multiplier like that. Why? Because Warrior for such a long time easily could stack beyond 50+% damage multiplier just from 2 traits alone (Berserker's Power + that 30% after using a Physical). They know they have to make this previously almost useless traitline appealing to take over those other ones that have such useful traits that are this easy to access.

> >

> > The only issue with this might be a Core Warrior that tries to get ALL of them for some cheese, but even then one shot warrior already exists and is a one trick pony only.

>

> the 30% dmg increase after using a physical skill is looooooong gone.... it's 10% since ages

 

That was a recent thing. Like in the last year. It's also 20% in PvE I believe? Or unchanged. I cba to log in just to check an arbitrary number.

[Ferus.3165]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > > Honestly I don't see an issue with an insane multiplier like that. Why? Because Warrior for such a long time easily could stack beyond 50+% damage multiplier just from 2 traits alone (Berserker's Power + that 30% after using a Physical). They know they have to make this previously almost useless traitline appealing to take over those other ones that have such useful traits that are this easy to access.

> > >

> > > The only issue with this might be a Core Warrior that tries to get ALL of them for some cheese, but even then one shot warrior already exists and is a one trick pony only.

> >

> > the 30% dmg increase after using a physical skill is looooooong gone.... it's 10% since ages

>

> That was a recent thing. Like in the last year. It's also 20% in PvE I believe? Or unchanged. I cba to log in just to check an arbitrary number.

 

the patch was the 10th of july 2018... it's been more than a year... that is not recent

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Well, the barrier conditional should be rare enough to justify the modifier outside of two specific E-Specs.

[DKRathalos.9625]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

>

> For Discipline obviously to dropped goodies are Fast Hands, Warrior's Sprint, and Brawler's Recovery. Shrug It Off or Warhorn may negate the need for Brawler's Recovery, and Martial Cadence may alleviate several reasons to take Fast Hands, but how it plays out in practice will matter. The extra swiftness uptime from Warhorn may justify not having Warrior's Sprint, and the new damage modifier on Leg Specialist may replace the damage modifier on Warrior's Sprint.

 

I want to add something here about Disc, if we swap Disc out for Tactic we also lose Cooldown reduction 15% on Burst skills. Also there is the another damage modifier matchup.

Destruction of the Empowered (Disc) which increase your damage by 3% per buff on enemy VS Empowered (Tactic) which increase damage by 1% per boon you have.

I know this might sounds weird as spellbreaker choosing Destruction of the Empowered but the reality even spellbreaker still hitting enemy with boons, the enemy boonstripped by bubble probably already been killed/bombed by teammate.

[Exzen.2976]

Weavers everywhere are hoping this isn’t widely used. Our pitiful tiny barriers, low armour and low health pool are perfect one shot fodder for anyone using this trait. I hope they’ve tested this properly. I’m not remotely confident.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"DKRathalos.9625" said:

> > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> >

> > For Discipline obviously to dropped goodies are Fast Hands, Warrior's Sprint, and Brawler's Recovery. Shrug It Off or Warhorn may negate the need for Brawler's Recovery, and Martial Cadence may alleviate several reasons to take Fast Hands, but how it plays out in practice will matter. The extra swiftness uptime from Warhorn may justify not having Warrior's Sprint, and the new damage modifier on Leg Specialist may replace the damage modifier on Warrior's Sprint.

>

> I want to add something here about Disc, if we swap Disc out for Tactic we also lose Cooldown reduction 15% on Burst skills. Also there is the another damage modifier matchup.

> Destruction of the Empowered (Disc) which increase your damage by 3% per buff on enemy VS Empowered (Tactic) which increase damage by 1% per boon you have.

> I know this might sounds weird as spellbreaker choosing Destruction of the Empowered but the reality even spellbreaker still hitting enemy with boons, the enemy boonstripped by bubble probably already been killed/bombed by teammate.

 

Don't most people take brawler's recovery or double standards over Destruction of the Empowered though?

 

> @"Exzen.2976" said:

> Weavers everywhere are hoping this isn’t widely used. Our pitiful tiny barriers, low armour and low health pool are perfect one shot fodder for anyone using this trait. I hope they’ve tested this properly. I’m not remotely confident.

 

Don't weavers only get barrier from their dual attacks, one utility, and by dodging if traited? Unlike Scrappers, Weavers have the ability to determine when they have barrier (unless of course their scourge buddy wants to troll them). Frankly, the Weaver QQ over this is not justified unlike the Scrapper QQ (those poor sorry scrappers). I'd say that if you are a Weaver and use a dual attack after seeing Soldier's Focus on a Warrior's buff bar then you deserve the 50% extra damage. Scrapers though... they are totally SOL.

[Exzen.2976]

Lol! Seriously? 0.o You ever played weaver? That statement is ridiculous.

[Exzen.2976]

Also I can’t see where it states this bonus is only up when Soldier’s Focus is up...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Exzen.2976" said:

> Also I can’t see where it states this bonus is only up when Soldier’s Focus is up...

 

Soldier's Focus should be a boon that you'll be able to see on their bar (I am assuming here that this will be the case as it gets expended when a burst is used), so you SHOULD have a tell that indicates that you are fighting a tactics warrior, ergo, stop using the abilities that will let them one shot you. Unlike Scrapper, Weavers can do that. You do not have to use a dual attack, you do not have to take the dodge trait that gives barrier. You are not in the situation where just by auto attacking you get barrier.

[Exzen.2976]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

> > @"Exzen.2976" said:

> > Also I can’t see where it states this bonus is only up when Soldier’s Focus is up...

>

> Soldier's Focus should be a boon that you'll be able to see on their bar (I am assuming here that this will be the case as it gets expended when a burst is used), so you SHOULD have a tell that indicates that you are fighting a tactics warrior, ergo, stop using the abilities that will let them one shot you. Unlike Scrapper, Weavers can do that. You do not have to use a dual attack, you do not have to take the dodge trait that gives barrier. You are not in the situation where just by auto attacking you get barrier.

 

Did you even read what I wrote? Where does it say the 50% buff is only up when soldier’s focus is up?

[Exzen.2976]

You suggesting that you never use dual attacks against a tactics warrior? Wow. That’s plain stupid.

[DKRathalos.9625]

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said:

>

> Don't most people take brawler's recovery or double standards over Destruction of the Empowered though?

For WvW? Mostly Destruction of the Empowered, the brawler's recovery is only 1 remove, not so much big deal if you got scrapper in group and could cleanse tons more, but for PvP when you are solo and need more condi cleanse maybe yes brawler but who knows I am not PvP er.

Double standard is for PvE.

 

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Exzen.2976" said:

> You suggesting that you never use dual attacks against a tactics warrior? Wow. That’s plain stupid.

 

trust me, you wont see that many tactics warriors running around, maybe in the beginning, for the meme, there will also be videos posted of "crazy oneshot tactic warrior montage", but they get those sick damages in 1 out of 10 fights (if its event hat often)

 

the majority of ppl that are going to use tactics in wvw are going to play support, so no cunning, and the rest will realize preetty quick that they give up too much to get tactics.

 

especially in zergs, spb is mandatory for bubble, thats one slot

defense in zergs, is pretty much a must have, as a full glass warrior in a zerg, because you just explode without the extra endure pain

and last discipline still has fast hands and other dmg multiplier in it, that are way more consistent, and dont rely on ppl having barrier

 

so what are you going to swap out for tactics to go in ?

on my shoutwarrior i dont play with tactics, because i dont rely on the dmg modifier and fast hands isnt as much needed as on a dmg warrior, because i can chill way longer on one weapon

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Exzen.2976" said:

> You suggesting that you never use dual attacks against a tactics warrior? Wow. That’s plain stupid.

 

1) I never said anything about the 50% buff being up when Soldiers Focus is. I did say that Soldiers Focus is your clue that they might be running Warrior's Cunning and if that is the case you should play more conservatively until you discern otherwise. The 50% damage buff is only active when YOU or your teammates give you barrier.

 

2) Playing more conservatively means don't stick your neck out, which means don't mindlessly spam dual attacks on CD.

 

3) What is plain stupid is giving yourself barrier when the odds are likely that your opponent is using Warrior's Cunning. Why in the world would you give your opponent that opportunity for +50% damage?

 

4) A Weaver can control their barrier application, a Scourge can as well now, however a Scrapper cannot. So quite honestly you have no reason to cry foul here. Apply barrier at your own risk. If your dual attack puts distance between you and the Warrior, then feel free to risk it, but a Volley will be inbound not long afterwards to take advantage of that barrier, and if its a Berserker a Gunflame will be inbound as well.

 

@"RedShark.9548"

I think we need to wait and see all the numbers, someone running tactics can run Soldier's Comfort or the new Warhorn trait, Vigorous Shouts, and still provide decent support even while running Warrior's Cunning. That sort of anti-barrier damage application will be useful in a zerg to counter Scourges.

 

There will certainly be full YOLO memes out there, I'll certainly roam with it for a bit while trying out several of the new traits, but there are some sustain/dps builds I want to try out as well.

[Exzen.2976]

If you have to avoid using 6 of your best skills in order to avoid being one shot by a gimmick warrior build there’s clearly something clearly wrong with the trait. It’s not about mindlessly spamming dual attacks - you are literally saying don’t use them. And you’d have to wait up to 15 seconds to work out whether the warrior might be running tactics.. So you avoid using them until you can be sure it’s not a tactics warrior? Lol. Honestly that’s terrible advice. Also, shouldn’t use dual attacks just in case a warrior turns up while I’m fighting... Scrappers are MUCH more durable than weavers in general and just because scrapper has more uncontrolled barrier doesn’t mean weavers can’t also be concerned about it the trait. It’s not a competition as to who has it worse. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous it is to introduce a trait like this. I expect it won’t be taken up by most good players running meta builds - but there will probably be plenty of players running gimmick one shot builds in WvW with this trait.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Exzen.2976" said:

> If you have to avoid using 6 of your best skills in order to avoid being one shot by a gimmick warrior build there’s clearly something clearly wrong with the trait. It’s not about mindlessly spamming dual attacks - you are literally saying don’t use them. And you’d have to wait up to 15 seconds to work out whether the warrior might be running tactics.. So you avoid using them until you can be sure it’s not a tactics warrior? Lol. Honestly that’s terrible advice. Also, shouldn’t use dual attacks just in case a warrior turns up while I’m fighting... Scrappers are MUCH more durable than weavers in general and just because scrapper has more uncontrolled barrier doesn’t mean weavers can’t also be concerned about it the trait. It’s not a competition as to who has it worse. I’m just pointing out how ridiculous it is to introduce a trait like this. I expect it won’t be taken up by most good players running meta builds - but there will probably be plenty of players running gimmick one shot builds in WvW with this trait.

 

Well, throw caution to the wind then, just don't come here QQing when you get oneshot after seeing Soldier's Focus on the warrior's bar. And you're right, there will be a fair number of warrior's running this while roaming I think. There will certainly be one or two in a zerg.

[Exzen.2976]

Lol. You really don’t get it. Have you honestly ever played Weaver? It’s not about being “cautious” as you put it - you are hamstrung if you can’t use dual attacks. Your “advice” makes no sense if you play the class. You won’t be able to kill much, if anything, without using them. A trait like this shouldn’t exist. I think a lot of people will QQ simply because it is terribly designed.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Exzen.2976" said:

> Lol. You really don’t get it. Have you honestly ever played Weaver? It’s not about being “cautious” as you put it - you are hamstrung if you can’t use dual attacks. Your “advice” makes no sense if you play the class. You won’t be able to kill much, if anything, without using them. A trait like this shouldn’t exist. I think a lot of people will QQ simply because it is terribly designed.

 

Well then see how far you get, you'll just have to better time your dual attacks if you don't want to deal with the reprisal.

[cryorion.9532]

"Oh no, I can't play against certain build the same way as against everyone else! I have to adapt now?! Adjust my build?!?! Hell no!"

[Exzen.2976]

“This trait is clearly overtuned. I can’t wait to put it on my berserker one shot rifle build and ping 30k gun flames off at people for lols. Quick let’s poke fun of anyone correctly raising concerns about it”.

 

Grow up. I have never said I won’t adapt my build. This isn’t a build issue though - it’s part of a core mechanic.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

> @"Exzen.2976" said:

> “This trait is clearly overtuned. I can’t wait to put it on my berserker one shot rifle build and ping 30k gun flames off at people for lols. Quick let’s poke fun of anyone correctly raising concerns about it”.

>

> Grow up. I have never said I won’t adapt my build. This isn’t a build issue though - it’s part of a core mechanic.

 

Nah mate @"cryorion.9532" is right here. Unlike Scrappers you have the choice on when you get barrier, so don't apply it when you'll risk getting killed over it.

 

Perhaps my original assumption when this thread started is correct. Perhaps Anet threw this wrench out there to force people to play smarter with their barriers. If that is the case then I don't see the numbers getting reduced, and good players will play around it instead of QQing. Not like its anywhere near where "Sic'em!" was prior to its nerf.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Exzen.2976" said:

> “This trait is clearly overtuned. I can’t wait to put it on my berserker one shot rifle build and ping 30k gun flames off at people for lols. Quick let’s poke fun of anyone correctly raising concerns about it”.

>

> Grow up. I have never said I won’t adapt my build. This isn’t a build issue though - it’s part of a core mechanic.

 

Why are you that upset about it, if i see a berserker+tactics i already know hes kitten.

He either has 0 sustain from running no defense, or isnt running disciplin, which means hes clunky af to play, and can barely use his bursts anyways.

 

Sure, he might be able to kill someone with barrier, but everyone else can f him up.

And the 25% against 90% hp? Please, there are so many classes that deal 20% more. Dmg Against targets under 50% hp, which is alot longer.

[Exzen.2976]

It’s unhealthy for the game. As you all can clearly see. That is all. I am not that upset about it. I just don’t understand why you are all defending it!

 

The game needs more balance, not more gimmick one shot builds. Sure they will be easier to kill in open field... But we all know they will be standing on walls of towers and keeps.

 

It will be irritating. Like mosquitoes. Nobody wants more mosquitoes.

[Lighter.5631]

people got no logic

arms gives 33% crit damage 10% overall damage and 100% crit chance on burst and proc unblockable and it's only used in gimmick

how is 5% only on barrier 25% on 90% hp above and 7% damage will be better lol, if you taking tactic for damage, you are doing it wrong.

i only see it been nerfed for one shot build with glass like they nerfed arcing slice, but that's never meta for warrior and will never be. if you can't one shot a scrapper you may as well be dead.

 

btw don't argue with this lan dude, none of his argument make sense, he's just giving assumptions with no experience and only say "get good" to any argument he can't comprehend.