Firebeard.1746 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? Basically this. Bellevue where anet is you're looking at 100k for even lower level devs because of cost of living. They're actually not doing so hot judging by their quarterly income vs. The amount of staff they have. Also higher level devs hit between 130-150k in Bellevue. So yeah they're probably barely maintaining their business when you factor in senior and leadership positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Sarrs.4831" said: > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > Considering the normal per-character slot will likely cost between 400-800 gems (they said it will be similar to bag slots and bank tab unlocks), i'd say that account wide armory slot would cost way more than just 700 gems > > That'll be for a *whole set* of 19 slots. > I just need one slot. No, they were talking about _individual_ slot unlock costs. A set of 19 slots would in that case cost 7600 gems at a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabenpriester.7129 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > Basically this. Bellevue where anet is you're looking at 100k for even lower level devs because of cost of living. They're actually not doing so hot judging by their quarterly income vs. The amount of staff they have. Also higher level devs hit between 130-150k in Bellevue. So yeah they're probably barely maintaining their business when you factor in senior and leadership positions. > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > Basically this. Bellevue where anet is you're looking at 100k for even lower level devs because of cost of living. They're actually not doing so hot judging by their quarterly income vs. The amount of staff they have. Also higher level devs hit between 130-150k in Bellevue. So yeah they're probably barely maintaining their business when you factor in senior and leadership positions. If you think anet pays that much you should read some glassdoor reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebeard.1746 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"rabenpriester.7129" said: > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > > > Basically this. Bellevue where anet is you're looking at 100k for even lower level devs because of cost of living. They're actually not doing so hot judging by their quarterly income vs. The amount of staff they have. Also higher level devs hit between 130-150k in Bellevue. So yeah they're probably barely maintaining their business when you factor in senior and leadership positions. > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > > > Basically this. Bellevue where anet is you're looking at 100k for even lower level devs because of cost of living. They're actually not doing so hot judging by their quarterly income vs. The amount of staff they have. Also higher level devs hit between 130-150k in Bellevue. So yeah they're probably barely maintaining their business when you factor in senior and leadership positions. > > If you think anet pays that much you should read some glassdoor reviews. Are they old reviews? This means they're paying below average for the area. Yikes. Bellevue is expensive. Those poor devs. Literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabenpriester.7129 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > Are they old reviews? This means they're paying below average for the area. Yikes. Bellevue is expensive. Those poor devs. Literally. Yikes indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > No, they were talking about _individual_ slot unlock costs. A set of 19 slots would in that case cost 7600 gems at a minimum. No I was talking about armory slots, not gear template slots. The armory seems to be an entirely separate inventory which stores all your gear template gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff. > > > > > > No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't what the ncsoft ceo said. It falls in line with what i said: > > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804/amp > > > > > > > > > > Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote. “Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.” > > > > I see nothing in this that conflicts with what i said. the problem is, as i said, that "delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects". For Arenanet, the delays in development (on PC and mobile) he mentions is about those undisclosed projects they were doing. The revenue against which this was a drain is GW2. So, exactly what i said earlier - they decided to develop other projects at a cost to gw2, and those other projects didn't pay off and ended up being only a revenue drain. Thus, layoffs. > > > > > > > > > > Then by that logic what you're saying doesn't conflict with what i'm saying. They still needed money but didn't have it. If anyone enjoys their brand, they should be willing to support them. > > > > True, but i like less and less what my brand is becoming due to ever mkre agressive monetisation and ever less ingame support for modes i enjoy. Im supporting my brand by not supporting what they are trying to turn it into. > > Its funny the justifications people make for not buying a thing that they want to have. > > Game is free, server time is free, game gets regular updates for free, game is as slick as any other aaa mmorpg, game has support for free, games security is maintained for free. GW2 is by far the cheapest aaa to play for the amount of content. Anet can happily apply 'monetisation as far as I'm concerned, especially when the game by design has no pay to win.' The more people support by buying from the shop, the more content we get. > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? Ok? Theres other games that give similar amounts of content for free and havent been nearly as agressively monetised as gw2, while also keeping up the pace of content release while anet has slowed down. They arent running charity but neither am i, the quality and content delivery of the game has dropped and like that my support has reduced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shena Fu.5792 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 monetizing QOL that can be simulated with Autohotkey thanks for free unlimited Build Templates and Build Storage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebeard.1746 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff. > > > > > > > No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off. > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't what the ncsoft ceo said. It falls in line with what i said: > > > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804/amp > > > > > > > > > > > > Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote. “Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.” > > > > > I see nothing in this that conflicts with what i said. the problem is, as i said, that "delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects". For Arenanet, the delays in development (on PC and mobile) he mentions is about those undisclosed projects they were doing. The revenue against which this was a drain is GW2. So, exactly what i said earlier - they decided to develop other projects at a cost to gw2, and those other projects didn't pay off and ended up being only a revenue drain. Thus, layoffs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then by that logic what you're saying doesn't conflict with what i'm saying. They still needed money but didn't have it. If anyone enjoys their brand, they should be willing to support them. > > > > > > True, but i like less and less what my brand is becoming due to ever mkre agressive monetisation and ever less ingame support for modes i enjoy. Im supporting my brand by not supporting what they are trying to turn it into. > > > > Its funny the justifications people make for not buying a thing that they want to have. > > > > Game is free, server time is free, game gets regular updates for free, game is as slick as any other aaa mmorpg, game has support for free, games security is maintained for free. GW2 is by far the cheapest aaa to play for the amount of content. Anet can happily apply 'monetisation as far as I'm concerned, especially when the game by design has no pay to win.' The more people support by buying from the shop, the more content we get. > > > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > Ok? Theres other games that give similar amounts of content for free and havent been nearly as agressively monetised as gw2, while also keeping up the pace of content release while anet has slowed down. > > They arent running charity but neither am i, the quality and content delivery of the game has dropped and like that my support has reduced. Just curious, what games are you referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > > This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff. > > > > > > > > No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't what the ncsoft ceo said. It falls in line with what i said: > > > > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804/amp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote. “Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.” > > > > > > I see nothing in this that conflicts with what i said. the problem is, as i said, that "delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects". For Arenanet, the delays in development (on PC and mobile) he mentions is about those undisclosed projects they were doing. The revenue against which this was a drain is GW2. So, exactly what i said earlier - they decided to develop other projects at a cost to gw2, and those other projects didn't pay off and ended up being only a revenue drain. Thus, layoffs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then by that logic what you're saying doesn't conflict with what i'm saying. They still needed money but didn't have it. If anyone enjoys their brand, they should be willing to support them. > > > > > > > > True, but i like less and less what my brand is becoming due to ever mkre agressive monetisation and ever less ingame support for modes i enjoy. Im supporting my brand by not supporting what they are trying to turn it into. > > > > > > Its funny the justifications people make for not buying a thing that they want to have. > > > > > > Game is free, server time is free, game gets regular updates for free, game is as slick as any other aaa mmorpg, game has support for free, games security is maintained for free. GW2 is by far the cheapest aaa to play for the amount of content. Anet can happily apply 'monetisation as far as I'm concerned, especially when the game by design has no pay to win.' The more people support by buying from the shop, the more content we get. > > > > > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > > > Ok? Theres other games that give similar amounts of content for free and havent been nearly as agressively monetised as gw2, while also keeping up the pace of content release while anet has slowed down. > > > > They arent running charity but neither am i, the quality and content delivery of the game has dropped and like that my support has reduced. > > Just curious, what games are you referring to? Mainly f2p ones, like poe and warframe to a lesser extend. Warframe what lack in content makes up with a really good business model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing is 'milking' anyone. That's how sour people talk when they have to pay for something they want ... when they think they should be entitled enough to get it for nothing. There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable going on here. It's an extra, QoL feature. The OP has it right ... everyone SHOULD be thankful you get access to some off a useful feature without having to pay for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well of course, you're back with your kiss kitten attitude. kitten off... > > > > > I'm done arguing sense with you from the last thread > > > > > > > > Do you work for free or why do you think everyone has to work for free for you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think everyone has to work for free, having an opinion that some things are acceptable paid and some things should be core features is absolutely NOTHING like saying I wish "everyone has to work for free", especially when it was free and unlimited in GW1, it's a downgrade from a free add-on currently* and it's something that if other games can't be bothered to implement as a core feature they allow addons/mods do it for them (Actually could someone name another major MMO that charges for this feature?) > > > > > > \* Because if you can't do better, ban it > > > > > > > From reddit > > > > "This. One of the conditions to ANet allowing my templates extension was that I let it die when an official solution comes around, and that condition hasn't changed" > > > > > > and > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > entitled > > > You misunderstand, not entitled to have it for free, we're entitled to call greedy bastards what they are when we see it though. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it's ok to have yours even if it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > Who is the greedy one here that wants everything for free? Do you complain at the supermarket because you have to pay for your groceries? Again, Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars 2. > > > > > > Do you even read? nobody said EVERYTHING for free. No, apparently just the things YOU want for free. Yes, you think Anet are greedy because they want to get paid for services rendered ... but you aren't entitled because you think you should be able to decide what features you should be getting for free? OH OK then ... I guess we can be assured that how things will actually work ... aren't the way you think they should. Thank goodness for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff. > > > > > > No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't what the ncsoft ceo said. It falls in line with what i said: > > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804/amp > > > > > > > > > > Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote. “Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.” > > > > I see nothing in this that conflicts with what i said. the problem is, as i said, that "delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects". For Arenanet, the delays in development (on PC and mobile) he mentions is about those undisclosed projects they were doing. The revenue against which this was a drain is GW2. So, exactly what i said earlier - they decided to develop other projects at a cost to gw2, and those other projects didn't pay off and ended up being only a revenue drain. Thus, layoffs. > > > > > > > > > > Then by that logic what you're saying doesn't conflict with what i'm saying. They still needed money but didn't have it. If anyone enjoys their brand, they should be willing to support them. > > > > True, but i like less and less what my brand is becoming due to ever mkre agressive monetisation and ever less ingame support for modes i enjoy. Im supporting my brand by not supporting what they are trying to turn it into. > > Its funny the justifications people make for not buying a thing that they want to have. > > Game is free, server time is free, game gets regular updates for free, game is as slick as any other aaa mmorpg, game has support for free, games security is maintained for free. GW2 is by far the cheapest aaa to play for the amount of content. Anet can happily apply 'monetisation as far as I'm concerned, especially when the game by design has no pay to win.' The more people support by buying from the shop, the more content we get. > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? Entitled people don't care or think about that. In their world, it's just a matter of getting them what they want. If it cost all of us something to get them what they wanted for free, the wouldn't have a problem with that. (In this case, that cost was shouldered by Anet but it's moot to them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > > What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing is 'milking' anyone. That's how sour people talk when they have to pay for something they want ... when they think they should be entitled enough to get it for nothing. There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable going on here. It's an extra, QoL feature. The OP has it right ... everyone SHOULD be thankful you get access to some off a useful feature without having to pay for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well of course, you're back with your kiss kitten attitude. kitten off... > > > > > > I'm done arguing sense with you from the last thread > > > > > > > > > > Do you work for free or why do you think everyone has to work for free for you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think everyone has to work for free, having an opinion that some things are acceptable paid and some things should be core features is absolutely NOTHING like saying I wish "everyone has to work for free", especially when it was free and unlimited in GW1, it's a downgrade from a free add-on currently* and it's something that if other games can't be bothered to implement as a core feature they allow addons/mods do it for them (Actually could someone name another major MMO that charges for this feature?) > > > > > > > > \* Because if you can't do better, ban it > > > > > > > > > From reddit > > > > > "This. One of the conditions to ANet allowing my templates extension was that I let it die when an official solution comes around, and that condition hasn't changed" > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > entitled > > > > You misunderstand, not entitled to have it for free, we're entitled to call greedy bastards what they are when we see it though. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it's ok to have yours even if it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the greedy one here that wants everything for free? Do you complain at the supermarket because you have to pay for your groceries? Again, Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > Do you even read? nobody said EVERYTHING for free. > > No, apparently just the things YOU want for free. Yes, you think Anet are greedy because they want to get paid for services rendered ... but you aren't entitled because you think you should be able to decide what features you should be getting for free? OH OK then ... I guess we can be assured that how things will actually work ... aren't the way you think they should. Thank goodness for the rest of us. You're so blind. But it's ok, I made the same mistake defending them like you are now... and then I woke up and realized what they're doing and how bad they actually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > > > What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing is 'milking' anyone. That's how sour people talk when they have to pay for something they want ... when they think they should be entitled enough to get it for nothing. There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable going on here. It's an extra, QoL feature. The OP has it right ... everyone SHOULD be thankful you get access to some off a useful feature without having to pay for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well of course, you're back with your kiss kitten attitude. kitten off... > > > > > > > I'm done arguing sense with you from the last thread > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you work for free or why do you think everyone has to work for free for you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think everyone has to work for free, having an opinion that some things are acceptable paid and some things should be core features is absolutely NOTHING like saying I wish "everyone has to work for free", especially when it was free and unlimited in GW1, it's a downgrade from a free add-on currently* and it's something that if other games can't be bothered to implement as a core feature they allow addons/mods do it for them (Actually could someone name another major MMO that charges for this feature?) > > > > > > > > > > \* Because if you can't do better, ban it > > > > > > > > > > > From reddit > > > > > > "This. One of the conditions to ANet allowing my templates extension was that I let it die when an official solution comes around, and that condition hasn't changed" > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > entitled > > > > > You misunderstand, not entitled to have it for free, we're entitled to call greedy bastards what they are when we see it though. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it's ok to have yours even if it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the greedy one here that wants everything for free? Do you complain at the supermarket because you have to pay for your groceries? Again, Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you even read? nobody said EVERYTHING for free. > > > > No, apparently just the things YOU want for free. Yes, you think Anet are greedy because they want to get paid for services rendered ... but you aren't entitled because you think you should be able to decide what features you should be getting for free? OH OK then ... I guess we can be assured that how things will actually work ... aren't the way you think they should. Thank goodness for the rest of us. > > You're so blind. I think what is blind is not realizing there isn't anything exceptional here; what is happening is about as typical a business interaction as you could ever experience. Anet provides a service and customers patronize them for it. Somehow you convinced yourself there is something criminal about that. I don't get how; you experience this every day for any product or service you pay for. There isn't anything different here than in those everyday interactions you have with other service providers and product sellers. There is no mistake on my part ... unless it's a mistake that I'm not ignorant. I have a REASONABLE expectation that I will pay for services rendered and products obtained. My snowflake don't melt anytime there is a suggestion I have to exchange money for something I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff. > > > > > > > No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off. > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't what the ncsoft ceo said. It falls in line with what i said: > > > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804/amp > > > > > > > > > > > > Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote. “Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.” > > > > > I see nothing in this that conflicts with what i said. the problem is, as i said, that "delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects". For Arenanet, the delays in development (on PC and mobile) he mentions is about those undisclosed projects they were doing. The revenue against which this was a drain is GW2. So, exactly what i said earlier - they decided to develop other projects at a cost to gw2, and those other projects didn't pay off and ended up being only a revenue drain. Thus, layoffs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then by that logic what you're saying doesn't conflict with what i'm saying. They still needed money but didn't have it. If anyone enjoys their brand, they should be willing to support them. > > > > > > True, but i like less and less what my brand is becoming due to ever mkre agressive monetisation and ever less ingame support for modes i enjoy. Im supporting my brand by not supporting what they are trying to turn it into. > > > > Its funny the justifications people make for not buying a thing that they want to have. > > > > Game is free, server time is free, game gets regular updates for free, game is as slick as any other aaa mmorpg, game has support for free, games security is maintained for free. GW2 is by far the cheapest aaa to play for the amount of content. Anet can happily apply 'monetisation as far as I'm concerned, especially when the game by design has no pay to win.' The more people support by buying from the shop, the more content we get. > > > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > Entitled people don't care or think about that. In their world, it's just a matter of getting them what they want. If it cost all of us something to get them what they wanted for free, the wouldn't have a problem with that. (In this case, that cost was shouldered by Anet but it's moot to them) > Ive gone on record asking for paid content updates to ensure better quantity and quality as well as optional subscriptions to make aspects of the game more accessible, i've also spend alot of money on games based on how pleased im with the state of said games. I dont care if content is free because thats simply a candy word used to mask the mediocrity and spoon fed nature of that content, im more than fine investing in a game so long as i see a return for my investment. I invested during se3 as well as with pof (through buying the ultimate edition and multiple gem purchases) because season 3 was very solid in my eyes (both cadence of lw as well as fractal content), and pvp/wvw were also seeing some attention. The game to me has gone downhill since pof in the content department and uphill in the monetisation department. Im not gonna enable Anet to push the gemstore harder by investing in gw2 while every other area of the game feels like its on the backburner. When they are ready to come out with a strong content plan for the diff parts of the game (rest of pve, pvp, wvw) ill be more than happy to open my wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalec.9853 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > Game is free, server time is free, game gets regular updates for free, game is as slick as any other aaa mmorpg, game has support for free, games security is maintained for free. GW2 is by far the cheapest aaa to play for the amount of content. Anet can happily apply 'monetisation as far as I'm concerned, especially when the game by design has no pay to win.' The more people support by buying from the shop, the more content we get. Game is free doesn't apply to all of us, and amount of content? It has really gone downhill, all there is are the LW releases/maps that become stale and boring incredibly fast and are just a waste of resources, but then that's just an opinion, seems some people absolutely love having a new map that'll just be dumped by the next release. > @"Obtena.7952" >No, apparently just the things YOU want for free. Yes, you think Anet are greedy because they want to get paid for services rendered ... but you aren't entitled because you think you should be able to decide what features you should be getting for free? OH OK then ... I guess we can be assured that how things will actually work ... aren't the way you think they should. Thank goodness for the rest of us. Oh this again from you, yes we can be assured ArenaNet are absolutely perfect and never wrong. I never had a problem with paying for the game and countless gems, I wish the game and exp wasn't F2P because how does that support the game? It kinda points towards a desperation for players to join no matter what. I wish the gem store had more cosmetics/character appearance changes like new hairs etc, i don't have a problem supporting the game and have done. Nothing wrong with having a discussion on what should be paid and what should be core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > > This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff. > > > > > > > > No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't what the ncsoft ceo said. It falls in line with what i said: > > > > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804/amp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote. “Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.” > > > > > > I see nothing in this that conflicts with what i said. the problem is, as i said, that "delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects". For Arenanet, the delays in development (on PC and mobile) he mentions is about those undisclosed projects they were doing. The revenue against which this was a drain is GW2. So, exactly what i said earlier - they decided to develop other projects at a cost to gw2, and those other projects didn't pay off and ended up being only a revenue drain. Thus, layoffs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then by that logic what you're saying doesn't conflict with what i'm saying. They still needed money but didn't have it. If anyone enjoys their brand, they should be willing to support them. > > > > > > > > True, but i like less and less what my brand is becoming due to ever mkre agressive monetisation and ever less ingame support for modes i enjoy. Im supporting my brand by not supporting what they are trying to turn it into. > > > > > > Its funny the justifications people make for not buying a thing that they want to have. > > > > > > Game is free, server time is free, game gets regular updates for free, game is as slick as any other aaa mmorpg, game has support for free, games security is maintained for free. GW2 is by far the cheapest aaa to play for the amount of content. Anet can happily apply 'monetisation as far as I'm concerned, especially when the game by design has no pay to win.' The more people support by buying from the shop, the more content we get. > > > > > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > > > Entitled people don't care or think about that. In their world, it's just a matter of getting them what they want. If it cost all of us something to get them what they wanted for free, the wouldn't have a problem with that. (In this case, that cost was shouldered by Anet but it's moot to them) > > > > Ive gone on record asking for paid content updates to ensure better quantity and quality as well as optional subscriptions to make aspects of the game more accessible, i've also spend alot of money on games based on how pleased im with the state of said games. > > I dont care if content is free because thats simply a candy word used to mask the mediocrity and spoon fed nature of that content, im more than fine investing in a game so long as i see a return for my investment. > > I invested during se3 as well as with pof (through buying the ultimate edition and multiple gem purchases) because season 3 was very solid in my eyes (both cadence of lw as well as fractal content), and pvp/wvw were also seeing some attention. The game to me has gone downhill since pof in the content department and uphill in the monetisation department. > > Im not gonna enable Anet to push the gemstore harder by investing in gw2 while every other areas of the game feel like they are on the backburner. When they are ready to come out with a strong content plan for the diff parts of the game (rest of pve, pvp, wvw) ill be more than happy to open my wallet. OK great ... I'm not suggesting you do. I'm not even sure what that has to do with my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > > > This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff. > > > > > > > > > No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't what the ncsoft ceo said. It falls in line with what i said: > > > > > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804/amp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote. “Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.” > > > > > > > I see nothing in this that conflicts with what i said. the problem is, as i said, that "delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects". For Arenanet, the delays in development (on PC and mobile) he mentions is about those undisclosed projects they were doing. The revenue against which this was a drain is GW2. So, exactly what i said earlier - they decided to develop other projects at a cost to gw2, and those other projects didn't pay off and ended up being only a revenue drain. Thus, layoffs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then by that logic what you're saying doesn't conflict with what i'm saying. They still needed money but didn't have it. If anyone enjoys their brand, they should be willing to support them. > > > > > > > > > > True, but i like less and less what my brand is becoming due to ever mkre agressive monetisation and ever less ingame support for modes i enjoy. Im supporting my brand by not supporting what they are trying to turn it into. > > > > > > > > Its funny the justifications people make for not buying a thing that they want to have. > > > > > > > > Game is free, server time is free, game gets regular updates for free, game is as slick as any other aaa mmorpg, game has support for free, games security is maintained for free. GW2 is by far the cheapest aaa to play for the amount of content. Anet can happily apply 'monetisation as far as I'm concerned, especially when the game by design has no pay to win.' The more people support by buying from the shop, the more content we get. > > > > > > > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > > > > > Entitled people don't care or think about that. In their world, it's just a matter of getting them what they want. If it cost all of us something to get them what they wanted for free, the wouldn't have a problem with that. (In this case, that cost was shouldered by Anet but it's moot to them) > > > > > > > Ive gone on record asking for paid content updates to ensure better quantity and quality as well as optional subscriptions to make aspects of the game more accessible, i've also spend alot of money on games based on how pleased im with the state of said games. > > > > I dont care if content is free because thats simply a candy word used to mask the mediocrity and spoon fed nature of that content, im more than fine investing in a game so long as i see a return for my investment. > > > > I invested during se3 as well as with pof (through buying the ultimate edition and multiple gem purchases) because season 3 was very solid in my eyes (both cadence of lw as well as fractal content), and pvp/wvw were also seeing some attention. The game to me has gone downhill since pof in the content department and uphill in the monetisation department. > > > > Im not gonna enable Anet to push the gemstore harder by investing in gw2 while every other areas of the game feel like they are on the backburner. When they are ready to come out with a strong content plan for the diff parts of the game (rest of pve, pvp, wvw) ill be more than happy to open my wallet. > > OK great ... I'm not suggesting you do. I'm not even sure what that has to do with my post. You assume ppl like me and everyone else whos not pleased with the way things are going are entitled and you assume we would rather not spend money on the game at the expense of everyone else. Just letting you know that aint the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Dalec.9853" said: > Oh this again from you, yes we can be assured ArenaNet are absolutely perfect and never wrong. I'm not suggesting Anet is perfect ... that's just your BEST attempt to discuss this issue with me. There isn't anything unreasonable going on here. This is a feature that is worth paying for ... even by players own admission. Anet making it purchasable is reasonable ... it's a service they provide players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalec.9853 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 But you defend everything they do, you must think they are perfect > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > Oh this again from you, yes we can be assured ArenaNet are absolutely perfect and never wrong. > > I'm not suggesting Anet is perfect ... that's just your BEST attempt to discuss this issue with me. > > There isn't anything unreasonable going on here. This is a feature that is worth paying for ... even by players own admission. Anet making it purchasable is reasonable ... it's a service they provide players. It's your opinion that it's reasonable My opinion is that it's a missing feature from the core game we paid for; and that filling up the gemstore is great, just not with missing features. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > > > > What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing is 'milking' anyone. That's how sour people talk when they have to pay for something they want ... when they think they should be entitled enough to get it for nothing. There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable going on here. It's an extra, QoL feature. The OP has it right ... everyone SHOULD be thankful you get access to some off a useful feature without having to pay for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well of course, you're back with your kiss kitten attitude. kitten off... > > > > > > > > I'm done arguing sense with you from the last thread > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you work for free or why do you think everyone has to work for free for you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think everyone has to work for free, having an opinion that some things are acceptable paid and some things should be core features is absolutely NOTHING like saying I wish "everyone has to work for free", especially when it was free and unlimited in GW1, it's a downgrade from a free add-on currently* and it's something that if other games can't be bothered to implement as a core feature they allow addons/mods do it for them (Actually could someone name another major MMO that charges for this feature?) > > > > > > > > > > > > \* Because if you can't do better, ban it > > > > > > > > > > > > > From reddit > > > > > > > "This. One of the conditions to ANet allowing my templates extension was that I let it die when an official solution comes around, and that condition hasn't changed" > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > > entitled > > > > > > You misunderstand, not entitled to have it for free, we're entitled to call greedy bastards what they are when we see it though. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it's ok to have yours even if it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the greedy one here that wants everything for free? Do you complain at the supermarket because you have to pay for your groceries? Again, Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you even read? nobody said EVERYTHING for free. > > > > > > No, apparently just the things YOU want for free. Yes, you think Anet are greedy because they want to get paid for services rendered ... but you aren't entitled because you think you should be able to decide what features you should be getting for free? OH OK then ... I guess we can be assured that how things will actually work ... aren't the way you think they should. Thank goodness for the rest of us. > > > > You're so blind. > > I think what is blind is not realizing there isn't anything exceptional here. Anet provides a service and customers patronize them for it. Somehow you convinced yourself there is something criminal about that. I don't get how; you experience this every day for any product or service you pay for. There isn't anything different here than those examples. > > No mistake on my part. I have a REASONABLE expectation that I will pay for services rendered and products obtained. My snowflake don't melt anytime there is a suggestion I have to exchange money for something I want. People already paid for their work. So templates should come for "free"... If you bought Samsung phone and when you turned it on it had nothing on it but all you see is ... "If you want browser - $10" "if you want imagine viewer - $10" ...etc you'd call them up and rant how you already gave them $1000, so why do you have to give them additional $10 for applications it should come with BY DEFAULT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"zealex.9410" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said: > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > This is why they had to lay off 1/3rd of their staff. > > > > > > > > > > No. They had to lay off 1/3 of their staff because they decided to use the money GW2 earned for them, not to further improve the game and thus make sure people will continue playing (and paying), but on some unrelated stuff that didn't pay off. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't what the ncsoft ceo said. It falls in line with what i said: > > > > > > > > > https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku.com/guild-wars-2-developer-arenanet-plans-for-mass-layoffs-1832799804/amp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Songyee Yoon, the CEO of Korean publisher NCSoft West, which owns ArenaNet, e-mailed employees this afternoon with the news. “Our live game business revenue is declining as our franchises age, delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects, while our operating costs in the west have increased,” she wrote. “Where we are is not sustainable, and is not going to set us up for future success.” > > > > > > > > I see nothing in this that conflicts with what i said. the problem is, as i said, that "delays in development on PC and mobile have created further drains against our revenue projects". For Arenanet, the delays in development (on PC and mobile) he mentions is about those undisclosed projects they were doing. The revenue against which this was a drain is GW2. So, exactly what i said earlier - they decided to develop other projects at a cost to gw2, and those other projects didn't pay off and ended up being only a revenue drain. Thus, layoffs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then by that logic what you're saying doesn't conflict with what i'm saying. They still needed money but didn't have it. If anyone enjoys their brand, they should be willing to support them. > > > > > > > > > > > > True, but i like less and less what my brand is becoming due to ever mkre agressive monetisation and ever less ingame support for modes i enjoy. Im supporting my brand by not supporting what they are trying to turn it into. > > > > > > > > > > Its funny the justifications people make for not buying a thing that they want to have. > > > > > > > > > > Game is free, server time is free, game gets regular updates for free, game is as slick as any other aaa mmorpg, game has support for free, games security is maintained for free. GW2 is by far the cheapest aaa to play for the amount of content. Anet can happily apply 'monetisation as far as I'm concerned, especially when the game by design has no pay to win.' The more people support by buying from the shop, the more content we get. > > > > > > > > > > Put it this way a good dev will cost 65-100k+ a year, then there's test, pm, design, analysts, marketing, devops, support etc. Who exactly is going to pay for this if there is no monetisation? > > > > > > > > Entitled people don't care or think about that. In their world, it's just a matter of getting them what they want. If it cost all of us something to get them what they wanted for free, the wouldn't have a problem with that. (In this case, that cost was shouldered by Anet but it's moot to them) > > > > > > > > > > Ive gone on record asking for paid content updates to ensure better quantity and quality as well as optional subscriptions to make aspects of the game more accessible, i've also spend alot of money on games based on how pleased im with the state of said games. > > > > > > I dont care if content is free because thats simply a candy word used to mask the mediocrity and spoon fed nature of that content, im more than fine investing in a game so long as i see a return for my investment. > > > > > > I invested during se3 as well as with pof (through buying the ultimate edition and multiple gem purchases) because season 3 was very solid in my eyes (both cadence of lw as well as fractal content), and pvp/wvw were also seeing some attention. The game to me has gone downhill since pof in the content department and uphill in the monetisation department. > > > > > > Im not gonna enable Anet to push the gemstore harder by investing in gw2 while every other areas of the game feel like they are on the backburner. When they are ready to come out with a strong content plan for the diff parts of the game (rest of pve, pvp, wvw) ill be more than happy to open my wallet. > > > > OK great ... I'm not suggesting you do. I'm not even sure what that has to do with my post. > > You assume ppl like me and everyone else whos not please with the way things are going are entitled and you assume we would rather not spend money on the game at the expense of everyone else. > > Just letting you know that aint the case. I didn't make that assumption though. I got no problem with people deciding to not spend money on the game if they aren't happy with it. I've said so MANY times. I SUPPORT that idea. 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Obtena.7952 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > > > > > What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing is 'milking' anyone. That's how sour people talk when they have to pay for something they want ... when they think they should be entitled enough to get it for nothing. There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable going on here. It's an extra, QoL feature. The OP has it right ... everyone SHOULD be thankful you get access to some off a useful feature without having to pay for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well of course, you're back with your kiss kitten attitude. kitten off... > > > > > > > > > I'm done arguing sense with you from the last thread > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you work for free or why do you think everyone has to work for free for you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think everyone has to work for free, having an opinion that some things are acceptable paid and some things should be core features is absolutely NOTHING like saying I wish "everyone has to work for free", especially when it was free and unlimited in GW1, it's a downgrade from a free add-on currently* and it's something that if other games can't be bothered to implement as a core feature they allow addons/mods do it for them (Actually could someone name another major MMO that charges for this feature?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \* Because if you can't do better, ban it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From reddit > > > > > > > > "This. One of the conditions to ANet allowing my templates extension was that I let it die when an official solution comes around, and that condition hasn't changed" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > > > entitled > > > > > > > You misunderstand, not entitled to have it for free, we're entitled to call greedy bastards what they are when we see it though. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it's ok to have yours even if it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the greedy one here that wants everything for free? Do you complain at the supermarket because you have to pay for your groceries? Again, Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you even read? nobody said EVERYTHING for free. > > > > > > > > No, apparently just the things YOU want for free. Yes, you think Anet are greedy because they want to get paid for services rendered ... but you aren't entitled because you think you should be able to decide what features you should be getting for free? OH OK then ... I guess we can be assured that how things will actually work ... aren't the way you think they should. Thank goodness for the rest of us. > > > > > > You're so blind. > > > > I think what is blind is not realizing there isn't anything exceptional here. Anet provides a service and customers patronize them for it. Somehow you convinced yourself there is something criminal about that. I don't get how; you experience this every day for any product or service you pay for. There isn't anything different here than those examples. > > > > No mistake on my part. I have a REASONABLE expectation that I will pay for services rendered and products obtained. My snowflake don't melt anytime there is a suggestion I have to exchange money for something I want. > > People already paid for their work. So templates should come for "free"... That kind of statement shows a significant lack of understanding how this business model works. That doesn't make sense ... Anet is VERY clear what you get when you pay for something ... and templates were NEVER part of any paid content until now. Whether you think they should be free or not has no bearing on if selling features to customers is some exceptionally unreasonable thing for a business to do. It in fact is very reasonable for Anet to do this. They have in fact been doing this since the Gem store existed. What is also ironic is that until now, Anet selling stuff in the GS hasn't really been a problem to people. Maybe you shoudl think about what makes this instance so different. Hint ... (it's related to people being entitled) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetalGirl.2370 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > > > > > > > > @"yoni.7015" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"MetalGirl.2370" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > What are you thanking them for ? Thank you for not milking me and actually doing your job like you promised back in 2012? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hold on ... what makes you think that even if this feature was released in 2012, you wouldn't be charged for it? What you are saying doesn't make sense. the timing has NOTHING to do on whether Anet is going to monetize a feature or not. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nothing is 'milking' anyone. That's how sour people talk when they have to pay for something they want ... when they think they should be entitled enough to get it for nothing. There is absolutely NOTHING unreasonable going on here. It's an extra, QoL feature. The OP has it right ... everyone SHOULD be thankful you get access to some off a useful feature without having to pay for it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well of course, you're back with your kiss kitten attitude. kitten off... > > > > > > > > > > I'm done arguing sense with you from the last thread > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you work for free or why do you think everyone has to work for free for you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think everyone has to work for free, having an opinion that some things are acceptable paid and some things should be core features is absolutely NOTHING like saying I wish "everyone has to work for free", especially when it was free and unlimited in GW1, it's a downgrade from a free add-on currently* and it's something that if other games can't be bothered to implement as a core feature they allow addons/mods do it for them (Actually could someone name another major MMO that charges for this feature?) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > \* Because if you can't do better, ban it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From reddit > > > > > > > > > "This. One of the conditions to ANet allowing my templates extension was that I let it die when an official solution comes around, and that condition hasn't changed" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" > > > > > > > > > entitled > > > > > > > > You misunderstand, not entitled to have it for free, we're entitled to call greedy bastards what they are when we see it though. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, it's ok to have yours even if it's wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Who is the greedy one here that wants everything for free? Do you complain at the supermarket because you have to pay for your groceries? Again, Guild Wars 2 is not Guild Wars 2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you even read? nobody said EVERYTHING for free. > > > > > > > > > > No, apparently just the things YOU want for free. Yes, you think Anet are greedy because they want to get paid for services rendered ... but you aren't entitled because you think you should be able to decide what features you should be getting for free? OH OK then ... I guess we can be assured that how things will actually work ... aren't the way you think they should. Thank goodness for the rest of us. > > > > > > > > You're so blind. > > > > > > I think what is blind is not realizing there isn't anything exceptional here. Anet provides a service and customers patronize them for it. Somehow you convinced yourself there is something criminal about that. I don't get how; you experience this every day for any product or service you pay for. There isn't anything different here than those examples. > > > > > > No mistake on my part. I have a REASONABLE expectation that I will pay for services rendered and products obtained. My snowflake don't melt anytime there is a suggestion I have to exchange money for something I want. > > > > People already paid for their work. So templates should come for "free"... > > That kind of statement shows a significant lack of understanding how this business model works. > > That doesn't make sense ... Anet is VERY clear what you get when you pay for something ... and templates were NEVER part of any paid content until now. Whether you think they should be free or not has no bearing on if selling features to customers is some exceptionally unreasonable thing for a business to do. It in fact is very reasonable for Anet to do this. They have in fact been doing this since the Gem store existed. > > Just cuz something was done since forever doesn't make it right. Do you also think it's right that they are removing headphones socket on phones for example? Do you also think "well they gotta make money, how else would they make money if they don't make us buy dongles" ? I'm sure you're not like this irl, to take everything so lightly ... I'm sure you're rolling your eyes every time you hear companies mess something up. Unless you're 12 yr old kid who's sitting on parents back and don't understand the concept of money so you don't care as it's not yours Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted October 2, 2019 Share Posted October 2, 2019 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Dalec.9853" said: > > Oh this again from you, yes we can be assured ArenaNet are absolutely perfect and never wrong. > > I'm not suggesting Anet is perfect ... that's just your BEST attempt to discuss this issue with me. > > There isn't anything unreasonable going on here. This is a feature that is worth paying for ... even by players own admission. Anet making it purchasable is reasonable ... it's a service they provide players. It's not binary, there are degrees here. Yes, this feature is worth paying for. The question is however whether this specific implementation of this feature is worth paying for, and how much. And as i see it, this implementation is bad, and the pricing terrible. No, as it is now it is definitely not worth paying for, **nor is it worth losing access to arc templates**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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