Thank you for Renegade!

[Cyrin.1035]

I love the Renegade elite spec and it's nice to have a new bow weapon in the game.

[Maulclaw.4365]

Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content.

[Dashingsteel.3410]

It is really fun to play and the visual effects are awesome.

[Redfeather.6401]

I like how it feels like a battle commander.

[Conncept.7638]

> @RandomWolf.3986 said:

> Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids...

 

I don't get why people point this out constantly, as this is true of the overwhelming majority of the games builds, and even entire professions, not because of the builds themselves or the professions they belong to, but because that's how raids are designed in this and most other games.

 

Raids aren't content meant for creativity or tactics; they are content based around discovery, planning, and a precomposited strategy where you comply with a rigid sequence of mechanics within a time limit. And so, to meet the requirements, you have to have a team composition that complies with those mechanics while outputting sufficient DPS to meet the time limit, and most builds and party compositions just aren't going to meet the requirements of most raid scenarios.

 

I actually haven't got to the renegade yet, but I love pet classes so it's definitely on my list. But right now I'm enjoying the Deadeye way too much to move on to a new spec. XD

[sigur.9453]

> @RandomWolf.3986 said:

> Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content.

 

it works pretty well in raids, can´t speak for pvp though

[Vyrulisse.1246]

The skills are still underwhelming on the Shortbow. Energy costs still too high for the most part. I hope that changes. It's really sweet watching my carefully placed Warband member get Feared, knocked back etc... feels good man. _sigh_

[castlemanic.3198]

I need to get condition gear to make the most use out of the bow, but I agree, I absolutely love the renegade, I love the battlefield commander feel of it, I love the idea of summoning spirits to aid you in combat, it's so much fun.

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

Still waiting on an Asura legend. ._. Ah well. Maybe next expansion.

[Alga.6498]

> @TheOrlyFactor.8341 said:

> Still waiting on an Asura legend. ._. Ah well. Maybe next expansion.

 

Snaff Legendary Stance :heart: !!

[SmirkDog.3160]

> @RandomWolf.3986 said:

> Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content.

 

I'll never understand how some people think every profession and build should be perfect in every game type. Not to mention, I've heard Renegades with mace/axe have some pretty high DPS and are appreciated in raids. But maybe I got the wrong info, huh?

[Kreed.2768]

> @RandomWolf.3986 said:

> Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content.

 

QT seems to disagree with you on the raid part and benchmarks Renegade (small hitbox) at just over 37K, putting it in 5th place, about 1.9K behind the Scourge, which is placed first with 38.7K. It certainly has a place in raids. It might not be a "must have" like Chrono, but it's certainly nothing to laugh at, either.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

If you played condi rev before PoF, then you got an upgrade in damage, not a change in playstyle or mechanics. Take away Fervor and this spec would have been pointless. It's a failure in my opinion as it changed nothing about how you play revenant, only gave you a lousy weapon and new legend. Same stuff, new color.

[Maulclaw.4365]

Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content. > @Kreed.2768 said:

> > @RandomWolf.3986 said:

> > Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content.

>

> QT seems to disagree with you on the raid part and benchmarks Renegade (small hitbox) at just over 37K, putting it in 5th place, about 1.9K behind the Scourge, which is placed first with 38.7K. It certainly has a place in raids. It might not be a "must have" like Chrono, but it's certainly nothing to laugh at, either.

 

The community doesn't like Revenants as a whole. I've encountered many Revenant players who have revealed difficulties in finding themselves a spot for Raids. There have also been major complaints in the forums regarding this very same topic.

[Static.9841]

> @RandomWolf.3986 said:

> Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content. > @Kreed.2768 said:

> > > @RandomWolf.3986 said:

> > > Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content.

> >

> > QT seems to disagree with you on the raid part and benchmarks Renegade (small hitbox) at just over 37K, putting it in 5th place, about 1.9K behind the Scourge, which is placed first with 38.7K. It certainly has a place in raids. It might not be a "must have" like Chrono, but it's certainly nothing to laugh at, either.

>

> The community doesn't like Revenants as a whole. I've encountered many Revenant players who have revealed difficulties in finding themselves a spot for Raids. There have also been major complaints in the forums regarding this very same topic.

 

This was pre-PoF though. The nerfs to power Rev hit them very hard with only being able to share boons to 5 members and pushed them out of the raid meta. Nobody cared for condi Rev after that because it was only useful on a couple of bosses due to the most condi output being from Torment. Renegade has given them a place again.

[Vyrulisse.1246]

> @SmirkDog.3160 said:

> > @RandomWolf.3986 said:

> > Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content.

>

> I'll never understand how some people think every profession and build should be perfect in every game type. Not to mention, I've heard Renegades with mace/axe have some pretty high DPS and are appreciated in raids. But maybe I got the wrong info, huh?

 

People expect it because people pay for this stuff and I dunno it doesn't seem too out of line to expect their preferred class' new spec to work well in their preferred game mode. Also you've got it wrong. Standard old Condi Rev with Renegade traits is what works well, the actual Renegade itself (especially shortbow) does not.

[SmirkDog.3160]

> @Vyrulisse.1246 said:

> People expect it because people pay for this stuff and I dunno it doesn't seem too out of line to expect their preferred class' new spec to work well in their preferred game mode. Also you've got it wrong. Standard old Condi Rev with Renegade traits is what works well, the actual Renegade itself (especially shortbow) does not.

 

You're right. And I paid for all the expansions, so uh, I should get to have all the legendary weapons that were added with them.

 

And I don't know if you actually read what I said, but nowhere did I say "Renegade using Legendary Renegade Stance with Shortbow". I said Renegade with mace/axe.

 

Also I hate to be the person stating the obvious fact, but every class and build can do raids. Good builds don't make you good. It just comes down to elitists not letting them join their Good Group. Sorry.

 

[otto.5684]

This post belongs in rev forms and this topic is already extensively discussed their.

 

It is basically a 20% bonus damage to condi with moderate support at the cost of major sustainability and mobility. It does not work in any form of PvP, due to major design flaws. It is the worst of all 18 elite disciplines.

 

 

[Klowdy.3126]

> @SmirkDog.3160 said:

> > @RandomWolf.3986 said:

> > Renegades work fine as general PvE specs. But sadly it won't manage to find its place in raids and PvP content.

>

> I'll never understand how some people think every profession and build should be perfect in every game type. Not to mention, I've heard Renegades with mace/axe have some pretty high DPS and are appreciated in raids. But maybe I got the wrong info, huh?

 

I'm pretty sure what people are so salty about is the fact that condi builds for rev have been mace/axe since they were introduced. The elite spec only added what should have ready been there.

 

We are working with a class with two elite specs that should be baseline for revs. The SB would be perfectly acceptable if it was baseline, but we (I did anyway) waited for the elite spec that just put our condi build in the spot it should have been a long time ago.

 

I agree SB is fun, and I like the idea, but the mechanics are very flawed as far as the new legend goes.

[Euthymias.7984]

I'm not happy with Renegade.

Yeah, yeah, "its cool if its PvE only" but seriously why should **any **spec be designed only for one game mode in particular when it could be a "viable alternative" regardless of game mode with choices that could empower certain playstyles and options instead of tending to certain game modes?

Look at Firebrand and Holosmith - they've got a place in both PvE and do fairly well in other game modes as well. The former brought good condi damage and some offensive support, while the latter could easily bring Power Engineer back to being a meta option in PvE with some numeric changes (while also bringing in a good amount of damage/control and mobility in PvP/WvW.) Scourge is also nuts in PvP while also dealing solid damage in PvE and has some support too.

 

My issue is that Renegade doesn't even have much of anything to make it worth considering for PvP or WvW. Hell, it doesn't really even add anything substantial beyond a few Ks of damage and tiny utility to an already strong Condi Rev (which was only really neglected due to its stigma more than anything post FoN nerfs) for PvE either.

 

It needs some real reworks to be more than a mere add-on to the existing condi-build.

[Garr.1823]

In fact Renegade is below average even in PvE.

While new renegade trait's line is "ok" (almost "ok"), utility skills are absolute garbage.

New specialization gave nothing new or interesting to the playing process, I would say that it's SO boring, that I left my revenant (was my main char) and started ele. At least it's some action.

[Caccis.9087]

> @Garr.1823 said:

> In fact Renegade is below average even in PvE.

> While new renegade trait's line is "ok" (almost "ok"), utility skills are absolute garbage.

> New specialization gave nothing new or interesting to the playing process, I would say that it's SO boring, that I left my revenant (was my main char) and started ele. At least it's some action.

 

I had fun at raids(played Spirit Vale yesteday) with Kalla spirits, you have "ok" heal even in full Vipers and more breabar cc from the spirit that dazes. Did you think Jallis hammers were more fun? Now atleast you have to place your f2 (or other f-skills if lacking in might or alacrity) and bleed spirit skills in right places. Don't know what condi rev you were playing but i feel Renegade is completly different from it.

 

Also i love how you make statements and have nothing to back your claims. Below average is fucking bullshit comment that does not mean anything when you know how much dps Renegade does.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Yes, thank you Anet for Renegade. Renegade opened my eyes, before it's release I could only feel a distant glimpse of how flawed, unfinished and crippled revenant is. Like a patched cotton doll with missing eye and limb(s). No wonder no new class was released with this expansion after revenant's experience.

However, I still wish Anet would stop ignoring this issue and push a rework for this class, after all feedback it received: 4th utility skill, energy system revamp and maybe 1 more weapon (GS please q.q). But knowing that Anet either doesn't want or can't hear us that won't happen.

[Garr.1823]

> @Caccis.9087 said:

> Also i love how you make statements and have nothing to back your claims. Below average is kitten kitten comment that does not mean anything when you know how much dps Renegade does.

 

I just call things as they are.

Glint utility skills are awesome, they are versatile and competitive, and when u play Glint - you don't feel that you want to change her skills for something else.

Kalla skills are just bad and boring. Combine it with a fact that you can't change them for something else, that they look more like AoE spells, than what you want to have on your utility panel. Add huge energy price.

 

What should I add? That 90% of players said it before the release? I'm sure that some people like Uwe Boll movies and Renegeade skills, still that is not normal =)

[arnitheking.8427]

> @Euthymias.7984 said:

> I'm not happy with Renegade.

> Yeah, yeah, "its cool if its PvE only" but seriously why should **any **spec be designed only for one game mode in particular when it could be a "viable alternative" regardless of game mode with choices that could empower certain playstyles and options instead of tending to certain game modes?

 

Totally agree with you on that, renegade is beautiful visually, and it's nice for raids actually with its high dps, but it's horrible in pvp (and to some extent in wvw). I don't think each elite spec should be optimal for each gamemode of course, and I understand that it's hard to please everyone, but atm, it really doesn't need to be this clunky and bad.. Kalla legends being killable for example, what was the thought process behind that? They're not even good mostly, and it only makes them compeltely unviable for zergfights AND it adds additional useless clutter. Shortbow LoS issues (amongst others)? And a general lack of reliable, strong abilities on sb? It only has 900 range after all, not 1500. Ridiculously high energy costs on f-skills that are borderline useless in pvp/wvw... And what's the deal with that (objectively) laughably bad f4? Add that to the fact that we get only 3 utlity skills per legend, and one of them is a condi damage buff, (again, great for instanced pve, but not very interesting and intrisically limiting ability, as it's only useful on condi builds) another that applies soft cc to a random individual inside a circle with relatively small radius (seriously it's really bad), an elite that costs 10 energy to activate, has a one second cast time (?), drains energy AND isn't even that great (and it's killable again)... ALL these things and more (some traits etc.) make me think this spec was really not tested at all in pvp and wvw and instead it was desgined with the sole purpose to cater to the desire of some the rev players to be "viable in pve", which is fine, I can appreciate that rev is now officially part of the raid meta, but It could've easily been good in pve AND still not terrible in wvw/pvp, but instead it's currently a terrible pvp spec, and only used in wvw in you go full damage hammer zerk without using anything the new specs offers except the traitline and kalla's fervor ..(even then herald is arguably better). A lot of suggestions have been made already to improve renegade in pvp and wvw, I hope to see some changes with the next balance update that are more than "10 % more damage on that skill" "reduced aftercast by one microsecond"

 

EDIT: obviously when I talk about wvw/pvp I don't mean casual wvw and bronze league pvp, I am sure some people can do great things with shortbow in random unranked games when fighting skillclickers, "no direct offense meant to anyone" ...