First time post here of complaint warrior buff is bad idea edit: Nerf rifle warrior

[lorddavito.2395]

Ajax, what have you done my frien

[Dave.6819]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> hello fellow players i am here to ask and complain about the recent warrior buffs, and concerned that these buffs to warriors after the nerfs of a certain class barrier is a bad tacked on move that will lead warriors to one shotting players with barriers that don't even last long enough.

>

> Doing something like 50% more dmg against barrier is crazy when combined with other bonuses where not only will you out damage barrier but possibly 1 shot, and warriors in my opinion are already pretty op

 

Have you played warrior? I never really liked it cuz it's too simplistic. And that's the main reason why they suffer at high-skill play. Same thing like ranger.. it's good but when u go higher u feel limited. That's why i'm all up for buffing up warriors. No need to nerf em. Core guard/warrior/ranger even core power necro.. buff em as much as you like. Those guys deserve buffs. Now.. over-nerfing mirage/thief/weaver/core engi.. that's the issue i'm mad about. Devs should never over-nerf classes that are complicated to master. You should reward classes that are hard instead of destroying em. So i say leave Warrior as it is. It's cool let em have it.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > I actually don't get the core it doesn't look that good the core warrior defensive anyways the adrenal health thing is nice as is defy pain, but that whole thing of toughness reminds me of the necros thing with their carapace minus the retaliation on block and block of ranged missile attacks.

> > > > >

> > > > > It doesn't look that good so i don't know if its because the spellbreaker's so called famous full counter thing which gives them a pretty nice dmg to ranged, but the core defense looks pretty weak for core.

> > > >

> > > > For sure. As a a warrior main I would have been so much happier with defense getting a rework rather than tactics. All the toughness and extra sustain is pretty bad because protection will always beat toughness in terms of sustain because of the straight up -33% damage multiplier and core warrior gets none. Defy pain is a total joke too. 90s CD on a no-skill passive for 2s of immunity to power damage.

> > > >

> > > > That whole middle tree in the defense line needs to be redesigned if defense is ever going to make a comeback, and core warrior needs some way to apply protection. Even if they only get a tiny amount like with Guard counter. It makes all the difference when pretty much every other class is running around with the boon applied near-constantly.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > keep in mind that warrior has heavy armor along side high HP pool, having protection on 11k HP guardian means something else then having it on 18k warrior.

> > > also, protection not only multiplies your Effective HP, but also makes sustain stronger, heals are 50% more effective, it has a HUGE impact.

> > > if current itteration of warrior could keep permanent protection, alongside its heavy armor class and hight HP pool, combined with several passive sustains and ease of use for toughtness amulet, they would take virtually no power damage.

> > >

> > > Immagine trying to kill toughtness amulet,protection warrior on rampage. would be able to facetank any power damage thrown at him.

> >

> > toughness could work in pve but in pvp it wont help prevent being one shotted

> >

> > We are talking about new classes with invuln spam and such and personally in my opinion core classes should help beef up the elites and elites themselves shouldn't be so overcompensating for the lack luster core stuff.

> >

> > I hear guardian is viable as core and necromancer is a good example of something that core while getting slightly better still has some stuff to improve upon.

> >

> > Warrior should be no different in that core should help boost up the other elites up.

>

> sorry but warrior doesnt get 1shoted, and toughtness DOES help with 1shot/bursts.

> core war is overperforming almost as much if not as much as spb.

> all im saying is that protection on warrior, would be worth more then protection on most if not all other classes, due to having perma 25might, thus not needing many dmg traits to do massive ammounts of damage, having HEAVY sustain.

 

lets take reaper which has similarities even with that new toughness its still nowhere near as good as say aegis invulns etc. Warriors prob got some of it on their wepons and they do a lot of dmg, in fact I think rifle is a bit overpowered, but the line of defense looks lackluster.

 

Guardians have stuff in their line for aegis blocks etc mesmers got invulns n stuff in defense line. What you gonna do if lets say a soulbeast starts to blast you for huge dmg and we know that those bear axe ranger soulbeasts can do huge dmg that can practically 1 shot people.

 

The one thing warriors have over reaper necros is a very good stunbreak and very good anti cc, but I am not seeing any mobility stuff or much of aegis or anything to help with huge bursts from multiple people.

 

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > > > @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > > I actually don't get the core it doesn't look that good the core warrior defensive anyways the adrenal health thing is nice as is defy pain, but that whole thing of toughness reminds me of the necros thing with their carapace minus the retaliation on block and block of ranged missile attacks.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It doesn't look that good so i don't know if its because the spellbreaker's so called famous full counter thing which gives them a pretty nice dmg to ranged, but the core defense looks pretty weak for core.

> > > > >

> > > > > For sure. As a a warrior main I would have been so much happier with defense getting a rework rather than tactics. All the toughness and extra sustain is pretty bad because protection will always beat toughness in terms of sustain because of the straight up -33% damage multiplier and core warrior gets none. Defy pain is a total joke too. 90s CD on a no-skill passive for 2s of immunity to power damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > That whole middle tree in the defense line needs to be redesigned if defense is ever going to make a comeback, and core warrior needs some way to apply protection. Even if they only get a tiny amount like with Guard counter. It makes all the difference when pretty much every other class is running around with the boon applied near-constantly.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > keep in mind that warrior has heavy armor along side high HP pool, having protection on 11k HP guardian means something else then having it on 18k warrior.

> > > > also, protection not only multiplies your Effective HP, but also makes sustain stronger, heals are 50% more effective, it has a HUGE impact.

> > > > if current itteration of warrior could keep permanent protection, alongside its heavy armor class and hight HP pool, combined with several passive sustains and ease of use for toughtness amulet, they would take virtually no power damage.

> > > >

> > > > Immagine trying to kill toughtness amulet,protection warrior on rampage. would be able to facetank any power damage thrown at him.

> > >

> > > toughness could work in pve but in pvp it wont help prevent being one shotted

> > >

> > > We are talking about new classes with invuln spam and such and personally in my opinion core classes should help beef up the elites and elites themselves shouldn't be so overcompensating for the lack luster core stuff.

> > >

> > > I hear guardian is viable as core and necromancer is a good example of something that core while getting slightly better still has some stuff to improve upon.

> > >

> > > Warrior should be no different in that core should help boost up the other elites up.

> >

> > sorry but warrior doesnt get 1shoted, and toughtness DOES help with 1shot/bursts.

> > core war is overperforming almost as much if not as much as spb.

> > all im saying is that protection on warrior, would be worth more then protection on most if not all other classes, due to having perma 25might, thus not needing many dmg traits to do massive ammounts of damage, having HEAVY sustain.

>

> lets take reaper which has similarities even with that new toughness its still nowhere near as good as say aegis invulns etc. Warriors prob got some of it on their wepons and they do a lot of dmg, in fact I think rifle is a bit overpowered, but the line of defense looks lackluster.

>

> Guardians have stuff in their line for aegis blocks etc mesmers got invulns n stuff in defense line. What you gonna do if lets say a soulbeast starts to blast you for huge dmg and we know that those bear axe ranger soulbeasts can do huge dmg that can practically 1 shot people.

>

> The one thing warriors have over reaper necros is a very good stunbreak and very good anti cc, but I am not seeing any mobility stuff or much of aegis or anything to help with huge bursts from multiple people.

>

as a warrior, what you can do is shield block while walking towards them/getting cover, you can close the gap with bullscharge, I dont think people realise how BAD it is for other builds out there

https://imgur.com/gallery/6qqQh54 THIS is how it looks for mesmer, as warrior you have more HP, more armour, you can take toughtness amulte without destroying entire build, you would be hit for half the ammount.

 

P.S look at long range shot, its rangers longbow basic attack, 3/4s cast time. on a guy with quickness.

point blank shot is 1/2s casttime, less with quickness that ranger has access to

 

[ugrakarma.9416]

(my main is power reaper)... rifle warrior is very slow and heavy telegraphed, a rifle warrior to succed should be very skilled, i had found only 1 on last season. i guess it dont need any nerfs. also rifle is heavy **single target**, is too hard to succed outside 1x1. rifle warrior is just a meme of deadeye.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> yea I wouldnt be opposed per say, its just dangerous to do so . Expecially since core warrior is strong as it is.

> what I ment about prot into healing is that, healing is worth MORE if you take LESS damage.

> immagine take full damage. 100 every time, then healing for 50. it means you lost 50.

> then immagine ahving prot, instead you take 67 dmg, still heal for 50. meaning you lose 17 hp. making healing more effective compared to the HP you have.

 

Why 50% tho?

 

Protection only gives a -33% damage reduction. That's not even taking into account things like boon strip, condition damage, and poison; which are all very prevalent. Condition damage especially, since it's a pretty big gameplay mechanic and it completely ignores protection. Poison is important to consider because even if you aren't playing a condition damage build it reduces all healing by 33%, through protection even.

 

Protection giving extra healing just seems a bit contrived. It's an overpowered boon imo; like I already said, but that only comes from the multiplicative percentage damage reduction that it gives and it says it gives.

 

I agree more with what @"Axl.8924" said about toughness and armor being pretty useless. Kind of true. It's additive to your power damage taken, whereas protection is a multiplier of that value. I don't know if you ever played Divinity Original Sin 2, but it's sort of like taking Warfare over Strength in that game. Strength is an additive attribute that adds to your weapon damage, whereas warfare is multiplicative, so you take warfare everytime over strength. As an example, i've even seen some SB and Holo builds that are really effective, because they go full glass canon, but they have high protection uptime that substitutes for the extra armor from toughness amulets and then some. Core warrior is in a place where they have no access to that multiplier while every other class does. Being high health and a heavy armor class is pretty worthless without protection especially when you're meant to be an aggressive melee fighter.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Multicolorhipster.9751" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > yea I wouldnt be opposed per say, its just dangerous to do so . Expecially since core warrior is strong as it is.

> > what I ment about prot into healing is that, healing is worth MORE if you take LESS damage.

> > immagine take full damage. 100 every time, then healing for 50. it means you lost 50.

> > then immagine ahving prot, instead you take 67 dmg, still heal for 50. meaning you lose 17 hp. making healing more effective compared to the HP you have.

>

> Why 50% tho?

>

> Protection only gives a -33% damage reduction. That's not even taking into account things like boon strip, condition damage, and poison; which are all very prevalent. Condition damage especially, since it's a pretty big gameplay mechanic and it completely ignores protection. Poison is important to consider because even if you aren't playing a condition damage build it reduces all healing by 33%, through protection even.

>

> Protection giving extra healing just seems a bit contrived. It's an overpowered boon imo; like I already said, but that only comes from the multiplicative percentage damage reduction that it gives and it says it gives.

>

> I agree more with what @"Axl.8924" said about toughness and armor being pretty useless. Kind of true. It's additive to your power damage taken, whereas protection is a multiplier of that value. I don't know if you ever played Divinity Original Sin 2, but it's sort of like taking Warfare over Strength in that game. Strength is an additive attribute that adds to your weapon damage, whereas warfare is multiplicative, so you take warfare everytime over strength. As an example, i've even seen some SB and Holo builds that are really effective, because they go full glass canon, but they have high protection uptime that substitutes for the extra armor from toughness amulets and then some. Core warrior is in a place where they have no access to that multiplier while every other class does. Being high health and a heavy armor class is pretty worthless without protection especially when you're meant to be an aggressive melee fighter.

 

depends how you look at it, if you are sitting at 2k toughtness, if you go to 2500, you will take 2000/2500=0,8. meaning you take 20% less power damage <- in that specific scenario 500 toughtness is worth 20% damage reduction, keep in mind that it can not be corrupted,stolen or removed. it also means that you can be GIVEN protection by other classes.

 

As for your why 50% question.

x= dmg taken.

x=100% without toughness.

dmg take with protection is lowered 33% meaning its at 0,67x.

y=damage increase to neuter protection.

y*0,67x=x

and thus y=1,5

you need to do 150% of your base damage to the target with protection, for him to take same damage he would normally take if he didnt have it, in other words.

100dmg without prot = 100dmg

150dmg with prot = 100 dmg

if your oponent needs to deal more damage, while your healing remains the same. it becomes more effective, comperatively to your HP pool.

 

TLDR.

IF you have 20khp, take 100% damage. get hit for 15k then heal for 10k. you end up losing 5k hp.

IF you have 10khp, take 67% dmg, get hit for 15k, then heal for 10k. you end up losing 0,5k HP

its not specific 50% number, I ahve taken it out of my ass tbh, but what I wanted to express is that the LESS % dmg you take from the same hit, the more effective your hp is.

[Axl.8924]

I think its more akin to other types of avoidances such as immunity and such versus toughness, but warrior is a lot better with avoidance and cc and probably mobility and reaper has terrible mobility and cc so that toughness won-t help much when being burst by 1 person full force and being unable to get away.

 

If you look at such things such as holosmiths they are insane and probably way outdo warriors in terms of sustain.

 

Sure your toughness is huge but I don-t see no mobility stuff yet.