I just want to be able to stand up

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Teratus.2859" said:

> Personally though i'd much rather have stability return to duration over stacks... this was one change in the game I really hated and to this day still do.

 

I think this change to stability was a smart change to give value to CC in small scale fight (sPvP). The issue is that the impact this change had on PvE and WvW wasn't exactly anticipated.

 

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> But that doesnt matter, because it can be balanced per gamemode. ANet is advocating it for years now, but still not really holding up to that design imo. I mean, let the Necro be mediocre for upcoming months (or more) in WvW zergs, they deserve it. But let the Necro be OP in the PvE endgame for those same months to come, they definitely deserve that as well!

 

Sure, what do you want them to do? Push the necromancer's number throught the roof just for the sake of having the necromancer in an OP spot? I agree that the necromancer deserve to finally be in a good spot in PvE, but I'd rather not have him in a good spot thanks to a gimmick or something that bring nothing to the overall balance of the game.

[Anchoku.8142]

I do think Arenanet could cut down on boons, condions, their removals, and damage avoidance. If players want those features in a build, there should be a a trade of something equally valuable to get these things.

 

All the pieces of the puzzle are in the game and in professions already. They only need verification the trades are proportional.

 

And PvE needs to be more like competitive game modes, as Dadnir pointed out. The two expansions are a huge improvement but bosses still do not pressure players the same way other players would.

 

I would like to see boon corruption and stripping, massive boon generation, and dodging. There is already some boon generation, condition output, and hard CC.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > But that doesnt matter, because it can be balanced per gamemode. ANet is advocating it for years now, but still not really holding up to that design imo. I mean, let the Necro be mediocre for upcoming months (or more) in WvW zergs, they deserve it. But let the Necro be OP in the PvE endgame for those same months to come, they definitely deserve that as well!

>

> Sure, what do you want them to do? Push the necromancer's number throught the roof just for the sake of having the necromancer in an OP spot? I agree that the necromancer deserve to finally be in a good spot in PvE, but I'd rather not have him in a good spot thanks to a gimmick or something that bring nothing to the overall balance of the game.

Ok, maybe OP isnt the right wording here, but I wouldn't mind to finally have a Condi build topping the benchmarking charts, instead of pretty much always being the very last one! It _has_ to come with trade-offs maybe in the field of Epidemic and/or shroud/barrier application **but** in the form of a choice, not something permanent that will get all defensive shrouders out there up in the highest trees!

For example: Remove or reduce the internal cooldown (3s) on [Demonic Lore](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Demonic_Lore) but add the negative effect: The Barrier application on [Desert Shroud](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud) is reduced by 80%.

 

Btw, Epi is a whole different discussion, I know Epi could break the game in some niche occasions if you have a Necro build topping the condi charts, but c'mon anyone can think of ideas on that skill, right? Go wild, I'd say. Hell, maybe ANet should introduce a: "non-instanced PvE only" clause. ....

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > But that doesnt matter, because it can be balanced per gamemode. ANet is advocating it for years now, but still not really holding up to that design imo. I mean, let the Necro be mediocre for upcoming months (or more) in WvW zergs, they deserve it. But let the Necro be OP in the PvE endgame for those same months to come, they definitely deserve that as well!

> >

> > Sure, what do you want them to do? Push the necromancer's number throught the roof just for the sake of having the necromancer in an OP spot? I agree that the necromancer deserve to finally be in a good spot in PvE, but I'd rather not have him in a good spot thanks to a gimmick or something that bring nothing to the overall balance of the game.

> Ok, maybe OP isnt the right wording here, but I wouldn't mind to finally have a Condi build topping the benchmarking charts, instead of pretty much always being the very last one! It _has_ to come with trade-offs maybe in the field of Epidemic and/or shroud/barrier application **but** in the form of a choice, not something permanent that will get all defensive shrouders out there up in the highest trees!

> For example: Remove or reduce the internal cooldown (3s) on [Demonic Lore](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Demonic_Lore) but add the negative effect: The Barrier application on [Desert Shroud](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud) is reduced by 80%.

>

> Btw, Epi is a whole different discussion, I know Epi could break the game in some niche occasions if you have a Necro build topping the condi charts, but c'mon anyone can think of ideas on that skill, right? Go wild, I'd say. Hell, maybe ANet should introduce a: "non-instanced PvE only" clause. ....

 

Epidemic is still very powerful in wiping out trash mobs and I am certain that Epi-dps is the reason Necromancer's condi-dps is low on single or near-single targets. I used it to great effect last night in the newest strike mission and some PoF bounties. Epi defines Necro's highest dps but also does zero damage to its target and can easily fail for many reasons.

 

Still, using Epidemic correctly can save allies from being pressured by add's or can increase total relevant dps when two or more tough bosses team up. This is where Necro shines but it is also kind of a rare situation in many areas of PvE.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > But that doesnt matter, because it can be balanced per gamemode. ANet is advocating it for years now, but still not really holding up to that design imo. I mean, let the Necro be mediocre for upcoming months (or more) in WvW zergs, they deserve it. But let the Necro be OP in the PvE endgame for those same months to come, they definitely deserve that as well!

> > >

> > > Sure, what do you want them to do? Push the necromancer's number throught the roof just for the sake of having the necromancer in an OP spot? I agree that the necromancer deserve to finally be in a good spot in PvE, but I'd rather not have him in a good spot thanks to a gimmick or something that bring nothing to the overall balance of the game.

> > Ok, maybe OP isnt the right wording here, but I wouldn't mind to finally have a Condi build topping the benchmarking charts, instead of pretty much always being the very last one! It _has_ to come with trade-offs maybe in the field of Epidemic and/or shroud/barrier application **but** in the form of a choice, not something permanent that will get all defensive shrouders out there up in the highest trees!

> > For example: Remove or reduce the internal cooldown (3s) on [Demonic Lore](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Demonic_Lore) but add the negative effect: The Barrier application on [Desert Shroud](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud) is reduced by 80%.

> >

> > Btw, Epi is a whole different discussion, I know Epi could break the game in some niche occasions if you have a Necro build topping the condi charts, but c'mon anyone can think of ideas on that skill, right? Go wild, I'd say. Hell, maybe ANet should introduce a: "non-instanced PvE only" clause. ....

>

> Epidemic is still very powerful in wiping out trash mobs and I am certain that Epi-dps is the reason Necromancer's condi-dps is low on single or near-single targets. I used it to great effect last night in the newest strike mission and some PoF bounties. Epi defines Necro's highest dps but also does zero damage to its target and can easily fail for many reasons.

>

> Still, using Epidemic correctly can save allies from being pressured by add's or can increase total relevant dps when two or more tough bosses team up. This is where Necro shines but it is also kind of a rare situation in many areas of PvE.

 

Indeed, like I said, the Epi discussion is a whole different story. I always hoped a little bit that ArenaNet would introduce a new damaging condition: [Disease](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Disease), much like the GW1 version, except that it spreads between foes only. And Epidemic would be the major supplier of it.

 

But, like I said, I'm sure a lot of people have ideas of how they could change Epidemic without it holding the whole Necro back, and still keeping some of the spice it has now.

I already had ideas like these:

- Applying a large amount of Disease on target (see above)

- Add 5 stacks of Posion to target, then copy all Poison stacks from target to 5 targets within 900 reach (so only Poison spread, not all condi's, but 100% duration, imo more thematic as well)

- When target has Weakness and Blind, double the poison stacks on this target and apply Weakness to 5 targets within 900 reach (50% duration) (Also quite thematic and really needs some setup to be really effective)

- Damaging condition stacks are doubled on target but reduce duration by 66% on those added stacks; all non-damaging conditions are spread to 5 targets within 900 reach

 

Some might be too strong, but numbers can always be tweaked of course, it's the idea that counts!

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > > > > But that doesnt matter, because it can be balanced per gamemode. ANet is advocating it for years now, but still not really holding up to that design imo. I mean, let the Necro be mediocre for upcoming months (or more) in WvW zergs, they deserve it. But let the Necro be OP in the PvE endgame for those same months to come, they definitely deserve that as well!

> > > >

> > > > Sure, what do you want them to do? Push the necromancer's number throught the roof just for the sake of having the necromancer in an OP spot? I agree that the necromancer deserve to finally be in a good spot in PvE, but I'd rather not have him in a good spot thanks to a gimmick or something that bring nothing to the overall balance of the game.

> > > Ok, maybe OP isnt the right wording here, but I wouldn't mind to finally have a Condi build topping the benchmarking charts, instead of pretty much always being the very last one! It _has_ to come with trade-offs maybe in the field of Epidemic and/or shroud/barrier application **but** in the form of a choice, not something permanent that will get all defensive shrouders out there up in the highest trees!

> > > For example: Remove or reduce the internal cooldown (3s) on [Demonic Lore](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Demonic_Lore) but add the negative effect: The Barrier application on [Desert Shroud](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud) is reduced by 80%.

> > >

> > > Btw, Epi is a whole different discussion, I know Epi could break the game in some niche occasions if you have a Necro build topping the condi charts, but c'mon anyone can think of ideas on that skill, right? Go wild, I'd say. Hell, maybe ANet should introduce a: "non-instanced PvE only" clause. ....

> >

> > Epidemic is still very powerful in wiping out trash mobs and I am certain that Epi-dps is the reason Necromancer's condi-dps is low on single or near-single targets. I used it to great effect last night in the newest strike mission and some PoF bounties. Epi defines Necro's highest dps but also does zero damage to its target and can easily fail for many reasons.

> >

> > Still, using Epidemic correctly can save allies from being pressured by add's or can increase total relevant dps when two or more tough bosses team up. This is where Necro shines but it is also kind of a rare situation in many areas of PvE.

>

> Indeed, like I said, the Epi discussion is a whole different story. I always hoped a little bit that ArenaNet would introduce a new damaging condition: [Disease](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Disease), much like the GW1 version, except that it spreads between foes only. And Epidemic would be the major supplier of it.

>

> But, like I said, I'm sure a lot of people have ideas of how they could change Epidemic without it holding the whole Necro back, and still keeping some of the spice it has now.

> I already had ideas like these:

> - Applying a large amount of Disease on target (see above)

> - Add 5 stacks of Posion to target, then copy all Poison stacks from target to 5 targets within 900 reach (so only Poison spread, not all condi's, but 100% duration, imo more thematic as well)

> - When target has Weakness and Blind, double the poison stacks on this target and apply Weakness to 5 targets within 900 reach (50% duration) (Also quite thematic and really needs some setup to be really effective)

> - Damaging condition stacks are doubled on target but reduce duration by 66% on those added stacks; all non-damaging conditions are spread to 5 targets within 900 reach

>

> Some might be too strong, but numbers can always be tweaked of course, it's the idea that counts!

 

If Epi had damage to its target I am sure it would be nerfed extra hard **but** if there was a trait that could switch how it behaves then what you suggest is very possible. It is like creating a new utility skill in the Corruption family. In fact, the trait could modify **all** Corruption skills and make them behave differently for---

 

Hey, there might be a crappy trait in Curses that could be reworked for something like what you suggest.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> Ok, maybe OP isnt the right wording here, but I wouldn't mind to finally have a Condi build topping the benchmarking charts, instead of pretty much always being the very last one! It _has_ to come with trade-offs maybe in the field of Epidemic and/or shroud/barrier application **but** in the form of a choice, not something permanent that will get all defensive shrouders out there up in the highest trees!

> For example: Remove or reduce the internal cooldown (3s) on [Demonic Lore](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Demonic_Lore) but add the negative effect: The Barrier application on [Desert Shroud](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud) is reduced by 80%.

>

> Btw, Epi is a whole different discussion, I know Epi could break the game in some niche occasions if you have a Necro build topping the condi charts, but c'mon anyone can think of ideas on that skill, right? Go wild, I'd say. Hell, maybe ANet should introduce a: "non-instanced PvE only" clause. ....

 

Well, the best way to adress epidemic in my opinion is to make it copy the condition that are on the caster on it's target and up to 5 additional foe close to this target. To ensure that there will always be a condition applied you make sure that the self condition is applied before the effect is applied on the targets. This is the best way to balance and design this skill. It kill it's damage potential to something that will always be balanced even if it might suck in PvE.

 

As for increasing the condi dps potential of the necromancer it's actually very easy:

- _Barbed precision_: increase bleed duration on crit to 5s (PvE only).

- _Chilling darkness_: bring ICD down to 1 second (PvE only).

- _Death nova_: change condition for summoning a jagged horror from "on death" to "whenever you gain life force". Give it a 5 seconds ICD and keep the 5 horrors limit.

- _Mark of evasion_: reduce ICD to 4 seconds (either PvE only or gamewide).

- _Chilling nova_: reduce ICD to 4 seconds (PvE only).

- _Sadistic searing_: burn on _punishment_ skill use instead of the need to use _manifest sand shade_.

- _Shroud knight_: add successful projectile and whirl finishers also chill (0.25s) on hit. Corrupting/ripping a foe with breakbar/indomitable but no boon now apply chill (2s).

- _Mantle of sand_: add successful projectile and whirl finishers also torment (3s) on hit. Corrupting/ripping a foe with a breakbar/indomitable but no boon now apply torment (8s).

- _Punishment skills_: Those skills now always trigger their converting effect on foes with breakbar/indomitable.

- _Corrosive poison cloud_: Increase poison duration to 4s (PvE only).

 

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Teratus.2859" said:

> > Personally though i'd much rather have stability return to duration over stacks... this was one change in the game I really hated and to this day still do.

>

> I think this change to stability was a smart change to give value to CC in small scale fight (sPvP). The issue is that the impact this change had on PvE and WvW wasn't exactly anticipated.

>

 

Yeah it should have been split for PvP and left as it is for WvW and PvE.. it always sucks when a change like that ends up benefitting one thing but at the cost of most others.

 

[Axl.8924]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> > Ok, maybe OP isnt the right wording here, but I wouldn't mind to finally have a Condi build topping the benchmarking charts, instead of pretty much always being the very last one! It _has_ to come with trade-offs maybe in the field of Epidemic and/or shroud/barrier application **but** in the form of a choice, not something permanent that will get all defensive shrouders out there up in the highest trees!

> > For example: Remove or reduce the internal cooldown (3s) on [Demonic Lore](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Demonic_Lore) but add the negative effect: The Barrier application on [Desert Shroud](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud) is reduced by 80%.

> >

> > Btw, Epi is a whole different discussion, I know Epi could break the game in some niche occasions if you have a Necro build topping the condi charts, but c'mon anyone can think of ideas on that skill, right? Go wild, I'd say. Hell, maybe ANet should introduce a: "non-instanced PvE only" clause. ....

>

> Well, the best way to adress epidemic in my opinion is to make it copy the condition that are on the caster on it's target and up to 5 additional foe close to this target. To ensure that there will always be a condition applied you make sure that the self condition is applied before the effect is applied on the targets. This is the best way to balance and design this skill. It kill it's damage potential to something that will always be balanced even if it might suck in PvE.

>

> As for increasing the condi dps potential of the necromancer it's actually very easy:

> - _Barbed precision_: increase bleed duration on crit to 5s (PvE only).

> - _Chilling darkness_: bring ICD down to 1 second (PvE only).

> - _Death nova_: change condition for summoning a jagged horror from "on death" to "whenever you gain life force". Give it a 5 seconds ICD and keep the 5 horrors limit.

> - _Mark of evasion_: reduce ICD to 4 seconds (either PvE only or gamewide).

> - _Chilling nova_: reduce ICD to 4 seconds (PvE only).

> - _Sadistic searing_: burn on _punishment_ skill use instead of the need to use _manifest sand shade_.

> - _Shroud knight_: add successful projectile and whirl finishers also chill (0.25s) on hit. Corrupting/ripping a foe with breakbar/indomitable but no boon now apply chill (2s).

> - _Mantle of sand_: add successful projectile and whirl finishers also torment (3s) on hit. Corrupting/ripping a foe with a breakbar/indomitable but no boon now apply torment (8s).

> - _Punishment skills_: Those skills now always trigger their converting effect on foes with breakbar/indomitable.

> - _Corrosive poison cloud_: Increase poison duration to 4s (PvE only).

>

 

Personally, I think they should just delete epidemic, it has been nothing but trouble.

 

If we get rid of epidemic then buff other stuff to compensate I would be happy. I am seriously tired of ANET having roadblocks for us that prevent us from ever being truly balanced because either we are overpowered due to Epidemic and boon corrupts or absolute trash because our damage and sustain and mobility is so low, that we become punching bags.

 

Let the compensation be in staff weapon if needed for aoe, because it already has cds and does decent poison damage and let it be our condi weapon for AOE along with scepter for single targets.

 

After that please just nerf the other classes down to hot level of balance so necros can actually be equally competitive.

 

For PvE, I dislike epi always anyways. It held us back because it was so op in either pve and WVW. Then make core necros the condi spec as they are far more balanced than scourge, because of less AOE spam.

 

 

[Nimon.7840]

Yeah. OP was the wrong wording. That would mean every single raidboss would be done by necros.

 

Oh wait, it already is that way with guardians.

 

Pvp wise, I think necro is the best balanced class right now.

You want sustain? You need to sacrifice a complete traitline for it (in form of bloodmagic) that doesn't give you any offensive powers.

 

I looked at some meta builds and they all, had defensive powers as well as offensive ones in the same traitline.

 

Just look at strength traitline and eles fire, water and arcane traitline. And I could continue.

 

That's the problem in pvp right now.

And only blaming the necro for wvw isnt fair. Guard has always been meta and never dropped out there as well.

Yet guard is at it's very peak right now in pve as well as pvp and still not nerfed to the ground like they did to scourge for pvp (a very good pvp player said, playing scourge right now should be reportable for inting)

 

Pve though... Yes necro had a time (rip epi bounces) when necro was very strong and basically played on any boss with adds (there are some but there's ones without as well) and it required some point of coordination.

 

Right now that's not the case for any class. You can just braindead do your rota.

 

And the epi bounce did get deleted pretty quickly.

 

 

I just can say it again, every 3 months (that's patch schedule) a new strongest class would definitely be the healthiest for pve endgame as that would make it much more exciting.

More fun to play.

Sure there's some people who complain about a new build every 3 months, but I don't consider them true raiders or engame fanatics.

That's people that do the content, without having fun, and dojng it only because it's content.

(BTW: Build crafting is content as well, and it's super fun for some players to actually craft builds, test them, tweak them, test them again and so on)

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> You want sustain? You need to sacrifice a complete traitline for it (in form of bloodmagic) that doesn't give you any offensive powers.

>

 

Technically, life siphons deal extra damage. And I'm 100% sure that ANet see it that way.

 

> And only blaming the necro for wvw isnt fair. Guard has always been meta and never dropped out there as well.

 

It's always easier to blame the guy that ruin your life than the one that support it behind the scene. The necromancer's design is to ruin the life of it's foes to bring them down below it's own level, while the guardian is design to make the life of it's teammate better.

 

> And the epi bounce did get deleted pretty quickly.

 

For some players it wasn't quick enough, it even lasted an eternity. The same goes for the time when you could have a swarm of jagged horror to bleed your foe to death.

 

> I just can say it again, every 3 months (that's patch schedule) a new strongest class would definitely be the healthiest for pve endgame as that would make it much more exciting.

 

Unfortunately there are some professions that are very hard to shake so, it only concern pure dps spots.

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

> @"noiwk.2760" said:

> honestly just quit Necro its not a class worth playing at the moment.. and if more people stop playing their necro maybe A-net will notice they done something wrong and fix the class

 

nah they want everyone to abandon necro, they want the class removed from the game without actually removing it, best way? make it SO BAD that NO ONE plays it, then the class will basically not exist

 

Anet hates necros

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > honestly just quit Necro its not a class worth playing at the moment.. and if more people stop playing their necro maybe A-net will notice they done something wrong and fix the class

>

> nah they want everyone to abandon necro, they want the class removed from the game without actually removing it, best way? make it SO BAD that NO ONE plays it, then the class will basically not exist

>

> Anet hates necros

 

Necro is far, far better now than it was at launch in 2012. People still played it, though not as many. It took Arenanet until the Big trait rework to even start balancing Necro and it was not until HoT that Necro was buffed to meta in PvE. WvW staff-wells was the only place it was meta for a very long time and that was because Necromancer's stack well.

 

Arenanet did not delete the profession back then so I doubt very much they will do so, now.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Necro is far, far better now than it was at launch in 2012. People still played it, though not as many. It took Arenanet until the Big trait rework to even start balancing Necro and it was not until HoT that Necro was buffed to meta in PvE. WvW staff-wells was the only place it was meta for a very long time and that was because Necromancer's stack well.

>

> Arenanet did not delete the profession back then so I doubt very much they will do so, now.

 

Peoples tend to forget a lot of things... The necromancer was extremly inadapted to the PvE end game content before HoT. Nowaday, people think that boons were always easy to get and only conditions were powercreeped.

 

That said, If I may, Necro was buffed to meta in PvE only as PoF kicked in. In HoT, the PvE Necro was still pretty low on the foodchain (except for the short period where it was possible to raise a swarm of jagged horrors.)

[gebrechen.5643]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

 

> Necro is far, far better now than it was at launch in 2012. People still played it, though not as many. It took Arenanet until the Big trait rework to even start balancing Necro and it was not until HoT that Necro was buffed to meta in PvE. WvW staff-wells was the only place it was meta for a very long time and that was because Necromancer's stack well.

>

> Arenanet did not delete the profession back then so I doubt very much they will do so, now.

 

That's not 100% correct because PvE in 2012 meant World PvE and Fractals. In world pve you can play whatever you want and in lower fractals every necro build worked somehow because most builds worked back then.

It is definitely better now, but that's a logical step when you can choose from a lot more options but you have way less options that work in the end. The recent Devouring Darkness nerf (and those before) for example completely killed Core Condition Necro for roaming. I really don't know if it "works" in pvp because I haven't played that in about a year or so, but the options in WvW are worse now.

Before the recent patch you had:

Scourges for zerg

Power Reaper and Core Condi for Roaming (both not top of the food chain but "ok" to play)

Now Scourges are mostly out of organized zergs and Power Reaper takes that place.

Core Condi is mostly dead with the recent changes. So instead of one build per specialisation you have 1,5 of the whole class (counting Scourge as "option" for people that tend to play off the meta)

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > Necro is far, far better now than it was at launch in 2012. People still played it, though not as many. It took Arenanet until the Big trait rework to even start balancing Necro and it was not until HoT that Necro was buffed to meta in PvE. WvW staff-wells was the only place it was meta for a very long time and that was because Necromancer's stack well.

> >

> > Arenanet did not delete the profession back then so I doubt very much they will do so, now.

>

> Peoples tend to forget a lot of things... The necromancer was extremly inadapted to the PvE end game content before HoT. Nowaday, people think that boons were always easy to get and only conditions were powercreeped.

>

> That said, If I may, Necro was buffed to meta in PvE only as PoF kicked in. In HoT, the PvE Necro was still pretty low on the foodchain (except for the short period where it was possible to raise a swarm of jagged horrors.)

 

I agree PoF's Scourge helped out quite a lot because Necro had poor group support value. However, HoT's Reaper was at least as big an improvement to the profession. Before Reaper, Necro's only cleaves were staff, wells, shroud 2, and Epidemic. Being excluded from dungeons was very common. Aside from WvW zerg support, Necro had nothing. Mesmer was bad for most everything but cheesing JPs, too.

 

I worry that so much talent has left GW2 and balance patches are unintentionally breaking things. If you have heard of the table game Jenga, recent patches remind me of it.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

>

> > Necro is far, far better now than it was at launch in 2012. People still played it, though not as many. It took Arenanet until the Big trait rework to even start balancing Necro and it was not until HoT that Necro was buffed to meta in PvE. WvW staff-wells was the only place it was meta for a very long time and that was because Necromancer's stack well.

> >

> > Arenanet did not delete the profession back then so I doubt very much they will do so, now.

>

> That's not 100% correct because PvE in 2012 meant World PvE and Fractals. In world pve you can play whatever you want and in lower fractals every necro build worked somehow because most builds worked back then.

 

You couldn't be more wrong... PvE in 2012 might be openworld PvE but fractal weren't that popular. Dungeons were the norm for "PvE" until HoT. As for the necromancer in fractal, along with the ranger it wasn't a popular profession. To be exact, until HoT, anything that wasn't elementalist, thief or warrior was barely tolerated in dungeons and fractals. Necromancers and rangers were even rejected most of the time, the occasional engineer was mostly a curiosity, the mesmer was accepted for highly specific strats and the guardian was the good guy that wasn't really needed but could fit the spot.

 

The only advantage the necromancer had in PvE was the staff for open world PvE.

 

It wasn't that most builds "worked" it was that there wasn't a true meta established. At that time, the philosophy was to go through the content thanks to a quick neat burst. Nothing more nothing less. And unfortunately the necromancer burst was neither quick nor high.

 

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > Peoples tend to forget a lot of things... The necromancer was extremly inadapted to the PvE end game content before HoT. Nowaday, people think that boons were always easy to get and only conditions were powercreeped.

> >

> > That said, If I may, Necro was buffed to meta in PvE only as PoF kicked in. In HoT, the PvE Necro was still pretty low on the foodchain (except for the short period where it was possible to raise a swarm of jagged horrors.)

>

> I agree PoF's Scourge helped out quite a lot because Necro had poor group support value. However, HoT's Reaper was at least as big an improvement to the profession. Before Reaper, Necro's only cleaves were staff, wells, shroud 2, and Epidemic. Being excluded from dungeons was very common. Aside from WvW zerg support, Necro had nothing. Mesmer was bad for most everything but cheesing JPs, too.

>

> I worry that so much talent has left GW2 and balance patches are unintentionally breaking things. If you have heard of the table game Jenga, recent patches remind me of it.

 

Let's be honest, reaper's dps potential was still very low until PoF. You forget that the necromancer was also very slow, one of it's few source of swiftness dealt damage around him making it unsuitable for addskip via stealth. You also forget that building might via combo blast was the norm until warrior got phallanx strength and necro blast finishers were unreliable while it's combo fields were an hindrance.

 

Mesmer had their use in PvE dungeons, there were paths that you wouldn't run without a mesmer in your team. A good mesmer that knew how to use a focus (whether it was to gather mobs or reflect projectiles), it's portal (CoF/CoE), stealth and reflect was worth more than 100 necromancers. Thinking seriously about it, mesmer were true assets for most of the dungeons and fractals.

 

Rangers were the other rejected profession. The bearbow meme gave them the worst reputation among all professions despite the fact that rangers were a better fit (and were even very strong) for PvE end game than necromancer's were.

 

Looking back, necromancers really were in a bad spot: low damage, bad at skip adds, low survivability (yep), no good utilities, no blast, bad fields, poor cleaving abilities... etc. It made them unsuited for most of the end game PvE content. In sPvP they were performing well only when they were down, it's ability to deal with boons only being a fraction of what it is right now.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

>

> > Necro is far, far better now than it was at launch in 2012. People still played it, though not as many. It took Arenanet until the Big trait rework to even start balancing Necro and it was not until HoT that Necro was buffed to meta in PvE. WvW staff-wells was the only place it was meta for a very long time and that was because Necromancer's stack well.

> >

> > Arenanet did not delete the profession back then so I doubt very much they will do so, now.

>

> That's not 100% correct because PvE in 2012 meant World PvE and Fractals. In world pve you can play whatever you want and in lower fractals every necro build worked somehow because most builds worked back then.

> It is definitely better now, but that's a logical step when you can choose from a lot more options but you have way less options that work in the end. The recent Devouring Darkness nerf (and those before) for example completely killed Core Condition Necro for roaming. I really don't know if it "works" in pvp because I haven't played that in about a year or so, but the options in WvW are worse now.

> Before the recent patch you had:

> Scourges for zerg

> Power Reaper and Core Condi for Roaming (both not top of the food chain but "ok" to play)

> Now Scourges are mostly out of organized zergs and Power Reaper takes that place.

> Core Condi is mostly dead with the recent changes. So instead of one build per specialisation you have 1,5 of the whole class (counting Scourge as "option" for people that tend to play off the meta)

 

I still see 95% scourges and only a minority of reapers.

But people here play core guard as well, because they believe it's better than firebrand omegalul.

 

Welcome to the bottom of the food chain. That happens, when you are on a dead server, linked with another dead server. Barely any players, barely any queues.

Even the "worst" guild left our server, because they think that the main server is dead.

 

And I have to bear with that in my free time... My only hope was the relinking... But we're stuck for the next month...

[Xxnecroxx.4039]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > > honestly just quit Necro its not a class worth playing at the moment.. and if more people stop playing their necro maybe A-net will notice they done something wrong and fix the class

> >

> > nah they want everyone to abandon necro, they want the class removed from the game without actually removing it, best way? make it SO BAD that NO ONE plays it, then the class will basically not exist

> >

> > Anet hates necros

>

> Necro is far, far better now than it was at launch in 2012. People still played it, though not as many. It took Arenanet until the Big trait rework to even start balancing Necro and it was not until HoT that Necro was buffed to meta in PvE. WvW staff-wells was the only place it was meta for a very long time and that was because Necromancer's stack well.

>

> Arenanet did not delete the profession back then so I doubt very much they will do so, now.

 

they wont ever delete it due to the backlash they would get, they just want no one playing it, and if anyone DOES play it they are to be regulated to 1 roll and 1 roll only. boon corrupt

[Axl.8924]

> @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > @"Xxnecroxx.4039" said:

> > > > @"noiwk.2760" said:

> > > > honestly just quit Necro its not a class worth playing at the moment.. and if more people stop playing their necro maybe A-net will notice they done something wrong and fix the class

> > >

> > > nah they want everyone to abandon necro, they want the class removed from the game without actually removing it, best way? make it SO BAD that NO ONE plays it, then the class will basically not exist

> > >

> > > Anet hates necros

> >

> > Necro is far, far better now than it was at launch in 2012. People still played it, though not as many. It took Arenanet until the Big trait rework to even start balancing Necro and it was not until HoT that Necro was buffed to meta in PvE. WvW staff-wells was the only place it was meta for a very long time and that was because Necromancer's stack well.

> >

> > Arenanet did not delete the profession back then so I doubt very much they will do so, now.

>

> they wont ever delete it due to the backlash they would get, they just want no one playing it, and if anyone DOES play it they are to be regulated to 1 roll and 1 roll only. boon corrupt

 

Question do you ever get bored of saying the same thing?

[gebrechen.5643]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

>

> I still see 95% scourges and only a minority of reapers.

> But people here play core guard as well, because they believe it's better than firebrand omegalul.

>

> Welcome to the bottom of the food chain. That happens, when you are on a dead server, linked with another dead server. Barely any players, barely any queues.

> Even the "worst" guild left our server, because they think that the main server is dead.

>

> And I have to bear with that in my free time... My only hope was the relinking... But we're stuck for the next month...

 

There are still endless numbers of scourges around, because many commanders haven't adapted to the changes. Reaper is, when having support, superior for zergs now. The boonstrips aren't bad, the combo from pull to burst is very strong.

I still see use for scourges but the more organized the group the better reaper gets.

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"gebrechen.5643" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> >

> > I still see 95% scourges and only a minority of reapers.

> > But people here play core guard as well, because they believe it's better than firebrand omegalul.

> >

> > Welcome to the bottom of the food chain. That happens, when you are on a dead server, linked with another dead server. Barely any players, barely any queues.

> > Even the "worst" guild left our server, because they think that the main server is dead.

> >

> > And I have to bear with that in my free time... My only hope was the relinking... But we're stuck for the next month...

>

> There are still endless numbers of scourges around, because many commanders haven't adapted to the changes. Reaper is, when having support, superior for zergs now. The boonstrips aren't bad, the combo from pull to burst is very strong.

> I still see use for scourges but the more organized the group the better reaper gets.

>

 

Well. I know that, but that would require to play ball meta again.

But every server still stacks scourges, and plays pirate ship.

If I had a guild right now for wvw, I'd try to convince them, playing pure reaper for some time.

Spike dmg is a lot higher and in a short melee fight, reaper can corrupt boons equally if not more than scourge.

(Nightfall, well, shout, spiteful spirit, that's already 40 boons gone (actually more, because of duration of nightfall +well)

 

+ You get unblockable attacks for 9 seconds, which makes your soul spiral deadly