My ideal Guild Wars 3; combat system, controller support, professions, multi-classing, skill capture

[Arkham Creed.7358]

Just a bit of brain storming, because why the heck not? I thought with recent talk of GW3 floating around I'd throw out my own ideal concept for the game's mechanics. To preface I'm looking at the current GW2 action combat mode, and classic GW1 gameplay for inspiration. I'm also more of a fan of console controllers than mouse and keyboard, so I'm designing this system in a such as way as primary combat functions can be easily mapped to a PS4/XB1 controller with little issue.

 

**The Combat System**

Largely unchanged from the current ACM mode, this is the now standard click-to-swing, mouse-look combat system supplemented with a typical actionbar. A toggle key for swapping back to mouse mode for using menus covers all the bases for standing controls. Beyond this things like profession mechanics mapped to the function keys, dodging, and weapon swapping are all unchanged.

 

_The action bar:_ The action bar is both larger, and smaller, than the GW2 action bar. In that it is reduced from ten slots to just eight, however every slot is now freely selectable. Certain skill types, such as elite skills, still have limits to the number you can slot at one time, but beyond this players would now enjoy a relatively larger eight slot bar with free selection.

 

_Blocking:_ Anyone can hold up their hands or whatever they are holding to fend off attacks, so why do I need a special skill to block? Magic spells, force fields, and other skills for persistent blocking can still be a thing, but a basic single direction block ability would not be freely usable by all characters, regardless of class, mapped to right click.

 

_The Attack Chain:_ By default any character, regardless of class, can equip every weapon in the game. This grants them a basic, non class specific, generic attack skill with that weapon. These skills have a few animations for multiple uses, but are otherwise nothing worth talking about. However as the character levels up things become much more interesting. By gaining class levels the player unlocks additional slots for their "sequence skills" in their attack chain, up to five. As the name suggests these are not use freely, but rather go off in sequence by repeated clicking of the attack function. Additionally as players progress their class specializations they will unlock additional attack skills related to that class' "signature" weapons. This allows players to define their own custom attack chain.

 

Some skills mandate that they must be placed at the beginning or end of a sequence, while others can be stacked in sequence multiple times. Dual skills also exist, being split skills divided into an A-Part and B-Part, that automatically combine, when able, based on equipped weapons to create custom skills for your custom attack chain. This system is not too hard to design, and highly flexible. And gets all the more interesting once multiclassing is unlocked at higher levels.

 

_Support Action Bars:_ A function added largely for controller support, this adds a pair of four slot secondary action bars to the game that can be toggled on or off by pressing a selected key. When active these bars replace the first four assigned action bar skills. These bars are specifically for quick access to mounts, contextual skills like the returning Signet of Capture, consumables, emotes, novelties, template switching, or other non-combat functions that can be freely favorite for quick use.

 

**Controller Support**

Not much to say here, I designed this system so that primary combat functions could be easily mapped to a controller. And it's not too hard to figure out. Left and right stick to move and look/mouse respectively, right trigger for access to left clicking/attack. Jump and dodge to the bumpers, the first four action skills to the face buttons with the support bars mapped to start and select respectively. D-Pad allows basic interact, weapon swap, and the first two f# skills. Hold the left trigger to toggle the D-Pad for the other F#s, face buttons to 5~8, and the right trigger to right-click/block. Toggle ACM mode by clicking the right stick. That covers all combat functions with a stick-click left over for whatever.

 

**Profession System**

Nine classes again split into the heavy-med-light armor and high-med-low health grid we know. Some classes will be changed a bit or merged together, and classics return in new forms. However the important bit here is what exactly a class is. As noted above you can equip any weapon regardless of class and get a generic starter skill, but I also mentioned signature skills. So here is the basic rundown.

 

_Armor and Health:_ Your choice of class affects your armor type and base health, as in GW2.

Story: The GW3 personal story would downplay race in favor of class, and thus story differences would change based on your primary class choice.

Interactions: Some character and world interactions would change to reflect your class.

 

_Resources:_ Every class is now tied to their own resource meter that ebbs and flows throughout combat. Be this a warrior's adrenaline, an elementalist's mana, a ranger's pet-stamina, or an engineer's gadget heat.

 

_Specializations:_ Here is the big one. As in GW2 character classes grant access to a default of five talent trees called Specializations, but in addition to being expanded with more depth and options, these trees are also massively more important in GW3, and you can begin unlocking and advancing them right from level 1.

 

Every specialization has with it an associated weapon type, skill type, and Specialization Function. These functions are ONLY usable if you have that specialization active. For example, let's say the Elementalist's Fire Attunment specialization is bound to signet skills and the sword. This means that in additional to all the passive benefits of this tree, the ele can ONLY use their class specific sword skills, signet skills, and fire attunment when they have this specialization equipped.

 

Additionally specializations are defined in three categories; Elite, Primary, and Secondary. Elite Specializations are advanced primary options that unlock post-max level, and allow post-core progression as in GW2. Primary Specializations are unique major options that hugely define what a given class is or is capable of. These options are "always on" and you begin the game with the first rank of your primary unlocked and slotted in it's own section of the build UI, and can only be replaced by Elite Specializations later. In addition Primary Specs can NOT be inherited via multiclassing.

 

Secondary Specializations, of winch classes start with four, are lesser expressions of that class' ability. They do indeed have signature weapons, skills, and even influence the F# abilities in some situations, as well as unlocking resource bars when multiclassing. However they are nevertheless considered lesser expressions of what that class can do. Every class may activate a maximum of three secondary specializations at one time, regardless of what class they are inherited from.

 

_**An Example Class; The Elementalist**_

Resource: Mana/Energy. As with the current Revenant, the energy resource builds over time, but is expended when using slotted skills. A small amount of energy can be regained by changing attunments.

 

_Primary Specialization:_ Arcane. Granting access to Staff skills as well as the Arcane slot skill type. This bar focuses largely bending magical energies to alter the flow of the ele's mana bar, as well as allows the ele's attunment to alter weapon skills. Under normal circumstances changing attunment only alters ele specific slotted skills. The Arcane Specialization can only be used by players who selected Elementalist as their primary class.

 

_Secondary Specialization, Fire:_ Grants access to sword skills, the fire attunment, Conjured weapons, and focuses primarily on area damage and the burning condition. Unlocks An energy resource bar if not already accessable by the class.

 

_Secondary Specialization, Water:_ Grants access to dagger skills, the water attunment, cantrip skills, and focuses primarily on healing, the chilled condition, and condition removal. Unlocks Energy resource if not already accessable.

 

_Secondary Specialization, Wind:_ Grants access to scepter skills, gylph skills, the air attunment, and focuses primarily on direct damage, the blind condition, and mobility. Unlocks Energery resource if not already accessable.

 

_Secondary Specialization, Earth:_ Grants access to focus skills, signets, the earth attunment, and focuses primarily on defense, control, and the bleed condition. Unlocks Energy resoruce if not already acessable.

 

**Multiclassing**

Using the example above one should start to see how classes combine their specializations to form full builds, how important the choice of what specs to use is, and also the strengths and limitations of multiclassing. For example a pimary elementalist has exclusive access to the Arcane spec, and it is always on for them. This means they will naturally gain staff related skills other classes will never have, they have many options for energy management, they have a slection of Arcane slot skills for utility, and only they can apply elemental effects to their otherwise non-elemental weapon skills. Later if something like the Weaver ever returns as an Elite Spec, they will be the only ones to obtain it.

 

However a player who takes ele as their secondary class will still be able to select up to three attunments, gaining the elementalist flaved weapon skills and actual skill types that come from that. They can attune and expend energy to cast spells, and their elementalist specific skills will shift to reflect their attunement. They can, in effect, play almost totally as an elementalist, but the lack of the Arcane talent tree puts them at a disadvantage in that field compared to the "real thing." Their weapon skills are not impacted by attunement, and they have no means of energy management beyond just letting it recharge over time.

 

**Skill Capture**

As with GW1, most slot skills are NOT unlocked via direct progression. Weapon skills yes, but your 1~8 slot skills are unlocked by spending gold at skill trainers, or by capture from powerful foes. As with GW1, throughout the world you will find roaming Elite, Champion, and Legendary enemies with special auras identifying them as members of a given class. Upon defeat these enemies will leave behind an effect that can be channeled via the Signet of Capture to add a new slot skill to your character's list, so long as the character in question is of a relevant class. Elite Skills can only be obtained in this way.

 

**The Professions**

A shot list and discriptor of the professions I would love to see.

 

**Champion:** As Tryia's warriors faced ever greater threats, they soon came to realize that the strength of martial combat alone was not enough, instead strength in numbers was the important factor. Joining forces with the guardians, this force learned to combine Guardian Virtues with Warrior Banners, granting powerful benefits to themselves and allies by planting these standards on the battlefield.

Resource: Inspiration. The inspiration meter fills as allies are healed and enemies defeated, yet drains as the champion takes damage. The strength and buff frequency of Banner of Justice, Banner of Resolve, and Banner of Courage is reflects the champion's current Inspiration rating. Many other skills gain bonuses for maintaining high Inspiration.

 

**Berserker:** In the war with the Elder Dragons, many warriors abandoned high strategy and defense for all out offense. These "zerkers" have since specialized in violence, and only grow more dangerous as the battle drags on.

Resource: Adrenaline. Building throughout combat, this meter empowers many abilities, and is expended by primary zerkers to use devastating all-or-nothing Burst Skills.

 

**Dervish:** Many will tell you that in the past Dervishes were traveling mystics known for transforming into the human gods to strike down their foes. These people are objectively wrong; that was not the primary talent of the dervish, merely a gimmick relating to just five of literally hundreds of other skills. The real strength of the dervish is in "enchantment juggling" the ability to apply and remove boons and conditions to transform that magic for greater effects. As Magic resurged through Tyria, a group of warriors known as Spellbreakers sought this ancient talent to improve their craft, and the dervish was reborn in a new form.

Resource: Focus. Building as boon and conditions are applied by the Dervish and their allies, Primary Dervishes expend Focus to remove boons or conditions, generate anti-magic fields in the area, or unleash their devastating Spellbreak; an effect that purges the area of all boons and conditions in order to greatly empower the Dervish.

Further with their Secondary Specializations the Dervish can enter powerful Celestial Avatar forms to grant themselves persistent elemental auras and related abilities. Avatar of the Sun grants a fire aura and relates to the Greatsword, Avatar of the Moon grants a frost aura and relates to the Warhammer, Avatar of the Stars grants a shock aura and relates to the Longbow, and the Avatar of the Void grants a projectile deflecting Magnetic Aura and relates to the Staff. Their primary Spellweave spec relates to the Glaive and other bladed polearm weapons.

 

**Ranger:** Tryia's rangers are largely unchanged from the current age.

Resource: Druidic Bond. The ranger's bond gauge fills slowly over time or when healing effects are used on the ranger, including their own self healing skills. This gauge is expended to use a wide range of natural magic abilities, set traps, or conjure nature spirits. Primary rangers can "lock off" their bond ague to act as a health bar for one or more animal companions. Found and tamed in the world, these beasts act as the ranger's primary profession mechanic, and while their "health" is reduced every time the ranger uses a slot skill or summons a lesser beast, the constant regenerating nature of the bond balances this.

 

**Engineer:** Tryia's inventors have largely unchanged form the current age.

Resource: Heat. All engineer gadgets and tools build heat that must be regularly purged with specific abilities lest they backfire or shutdown. In addition primary engineers carry multiple specialized gadgets on their tool-belt that exist outside of their primary action bar, and cannot be copied by any other.

 

**Warlock:** Long ago a group known as the Order of Whispers employed many thieves and spies who specialized in stealth to act as their agents. Using shadow magic these anti-heroes could vanish into thin air or even teleport. The Order also employed many necromancers to extract lost information from the souls of the dead. With time, these two paths blended into a single profession, and the warlock was born.

Resource: Lifeforce. Gained as creatues die around the warlock, lifeforce is used to fuel many of the warlocks abilities. From conjuring undead allies, to blood magic, to enhanting deadly potion like Venoms or bending shadowmagic for Deceptions, Lifeforce is used in some way for all. Futher Primary Warlocks can channel this energy to enter their Shadow Shroud; a persistant stealth ability that does not break when attacking, but that is weakened with every spell the Warlock casts.

 

**Elementalist:** Tryia's elementalists are largely unchanged from the current age.

Resource: Energy. Constantly ebbing and flowing throughout battle, energy fuels every spell the elementalist casts. Primary elementals have much greater energy management, and can infuse their weapons with the power of their elemental attunments.

 

**Mesmer:** Tryia's mesmers are largely unchanged form the current age.

Resource: Rhythm. Having always been related to bards and other performers, mesers fill a rhythm meter by chaining together attacks and spell effects, and capitalizing on combo fields. Mesmers never let effects just sit, and are always looking for a way to continue the performance with another dazzling display. Rhythm is expended for many mesmer spells, be they inspiring Mantras, chaotic Distortions, or psychic backlashes. Primary mesmers can conjure their own backup dancers; expending rhythm to summon illusionary clones and phantasms that help them keep the show going before being Shattered away in a flurry of magical pyrotechnics.

 

**Ritualists:** When a small band of Revenant warriors stumbled across a secluded monastery that was home to Tryia's last surviving monks, and soon realized they held the last books of lore on channeling and manipulating the spirits of the Mists, many were quick to lay down their swords and armor in favor of the spells and robes of their forbearer.

Resource: Mist essence. And unknown energy of the mists, essence is not expended directly for any effect, and generates slowly over time only when out of combat. In combat, as the ritualist's inner calm is stressed by battle, their essence level slowly bleeds away. Ritualists are masters of the lost arts of spirit magic of the past, with specialization in Restoration, Protection, Smiting, and Channeling. The effects of all of these spells start with significant buffs to their base effects that weaken slowly as the essence level drains. This makes Ritualists a front-loaded class, focused on quick and decisive victory.

 

Primary ritualists use their Mystic Arts specialization to conjure spirits into the world that act as a hybrid of a Warlock's minions and an Engineer's turrets. Not a simple pulsing effect but rather a "chained" AI capable only of patrolling a set radius they are leashed to. In addition Primary Ritualists can attune to dozens of different gravesite, alters, and lost relics throughout the world to "tame" spirits of legendary heroes and villains of Tyria's past in much the same way a ranger tames a pet. Like pets rangers may "slot" two of these legends at a time for exploration, and can toggle between their active legend in combat. Unlike pets these legends are NOT tangible creatures on the battlefield, nor are they some passive skill alteration. Instead they act as a sort of "after image" when the ritualist attacks, forming for a second to augment specific skills or attack sequence skills with their on abilities. The frequencies of these appearance lowers as the essence level drops. Invoking a different legend is the only way to raise the essence level during combat, and only Primary Ritualists can do so.

 

Finally Mystic Arts is one of only a few specializations bound to unarmed attacks or "fist" weapons such as claws or knuckles. Invoking the training of the classic monks to assault foes with a combination of spiritual magic and marital arts.

[coso.9173]

I like everything, but no thieves? ?

[Arkham Creed.7358]

> @"coso.9173" said:

> I like everything, but no thieves? ?

 

Merged with Necromancer to create the Warlock. I felt like at this point both archetypes were becoming a bit stale in the game space, and thieves were really just "melee DPS with super stealth magic because reasons." So by bumping necro up to a med armor class with more melee ability, and porting over the thief's shadow magic to compliment their own dark magic, you end up with an interesting "magic assassin" type of character. Much like the Nightblade from Elder Scrolls or the D&D Hexblade.

 

The two themes; shadow magic assassin and dark mage pair well together. And including the thief's stealth and melee revamps the necro in a cool way. At the same time adding the necro's curses, life steal, and undead would make for a really cool thief spec. So instead of just having both; slap them together into one thing.

[zealex.9410]

My ideal gw2 would have a better engine and allow for crossplay between xbox ps5 and pc, also released on consoles.

 

Oh and better managment that remembers the other 80% of content in the game.

[Ben K.6238]

Props for putting that much thought into it. I'm not sure this would be my cup of tea, but I'm more interested in the basics of how combat is structured (e.g. is it about timing attacks/blocks or counterplaying them, what strengths/weaknesses do players have to deal with, what's party composition like) than the specific details regarding each class.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

> @"Ben K.6238" said:

> Props for putting that much thought into it. I'm not sure this would be my cup of tea, but I'm more interested in the basics of how combat is structured (e.g. is it about timing attacks/blocks or counterplaying them, what strengths/weaknesses do players have to deal with, what's party composition like) than the specific details regarding each class.

 

I see it as being more of an "opportunity cost" formula for combat. That is why I decided every class needed some sort of resource bar that drains and recharges through combat. While you'd have a basic combo attack, a standard block, and of course dodging, stronger foes and more powerful attacks would require slotted skills to deal with, and with resource management being so important players would need to carefully judge when to use that big flashy attack verses activate their shield skill. Think of it as a sort of Dark Souls-ish playstyle, but with basic attack and defense being no cost instead of tied to the stamina meter. Yes you can swing your sword a few times or block a hit here and there with no issue, but if you make a mistake and blow a chunk of your resource bar on a poorly timed attack or to evade an strike you could have otherwise sidestepped you're going to have a bad time. The "free" combat options are there so you're never helpless, but real master of the system requires you to understand how your specific resource works, and when to utilize it to fullest effect.

 

Beyond this I feel like the loss of damage types in the change from GW1 to GW2 was more of a fault than the developers realized. While something as simple as "this attack does fire damage, and this one does blunt damage" might not seem like that big a deal, the ability to give enemies these variable resistances adds a layer of strategy and planing that the game currently lacks. Imagine how much more interesting those old dungeons would have been if you needed to stop first and think about the setting and story of it, anticipate the resistances and damage dealt by the creatures therein, and adjust your build accordingly for each one. Lacking this feature results in players just making a single "meta" build for all content, or all content of a given type. But having these variable damage types would force players to utilize the inherent build flexibility of Guild Wars, multiple weapon and armor sets, and the build template function in a way they currently just...don't. That's actually why I believe the game released and went so long without build templates; we don't actually need them. Most players rarely change up their builds as is, but multiple damage types in the game would necessitate doing so much more often.

 

"Oh it looks like the next Living World chapter is in the Shiverpeaks, time to grab my ice resistance armor and fire weapon."

"Oh this dungeon is in the jungle area? Time to grab my poison resist gear and throw a few more condition removal skills on my bar."

"Oh we're fighting a dragon this time? Give me a moment to grab my armor piercing everything."

 

You just don't see that in Guild Wars 2, and I feel like the game is weaker for it.

[LucianDK.8615]

Resistance armor? Are you kidding. People hated having to farm resist gear in WoW, and that was one thing Blizzard did well in removing.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Resistance armor? Are you kidding. People hated having to farm resist gear in WoW, and that was one thing Blizzard did well in removing.

 

Ah, but there in lies the core difference between WoW and GW; in GW you don't have to farm armor. You can obtain literally any armor set in the game, with any stats, through half a dozen different means. You can buy it, craft it, get it as loot, earn it with map currency, buy it with log-in rewards...I've currently got ten level 80 characters who, between them, have every crafting skill at rank 500; if there is a piece of gear I want, of any kind, I just craft it. I buy mats off the trading post and don't ever have to farm jack. There is no reason to think GW3 would be any different, because GW1 wasn't; this isn't a "gear based" franchise.

 

Games like WoW are all about getting that best in slot gear, and then doing so again when the next update renders it useless. So the content and reward structure is specifically designed to make doing so difficult. Guild Wars isn't about that; its a STORY based MMO more than any other. And while we do get new SKINS with these updates, the bulk of the game's content is story focused, not stat or gear focused. Even 5v5 PvP and WvW have a narrative presence in the game, raids and fractles have an ongoing B-plot to the game's core narrative framing both the content of each dungeon as well as the efforts to complete them, core dungeons were woven into the Personal Story structure, and both Expansions and the Living World are about progressing the ongoing meta plot of the world.

 

Guild Wars, as a series, is not World of Warcraft, and it legitimately bothers me that even seven years later I still have to correct the legions of WoW fans who only learned this game existed because of Total Biscuit's boneheaded, objectively wrong, misrepresentative beta coverage.

[Ben K.6238]

> @"Arkham Creed.7358" said:

> > @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > Props for putting that much thought into it. I'm not sure this would be my cup of tea, but I'm more interested in the basics of how combat is structured (e.g. is it about timing attacks/blocks or counterplaying them, what strengths/weaknesses do players have to deal with, what's party composition like) than the specific details regarding each class.

>

> I see it as being more of an "opportunity cost" formula for combat. That is why I decided every class needed some sort of resource bar that drains and recharges through combat. While you'd have a basic combo attack, a standard block, and of course dodging, stronger foes and more powerful attacks would require slotted skills to deal with, and with resource management being so important players would need to carefully judge when to use that big flashy attack verses activate their shield skill. Think of it as a sort of Dark Souls-ish playstyle, but with basic attack and defense being no cost instead of tied to the stamina meter. Yes you can swing your sword a few times or block a hit here and there with no issue, but if you make a mistake and blow a chunk of your resource bar on a poorly timed attack or to evade an strike you could have otherwise sidestepped you're going to have a bad time. The "free" combat options are there so you're never helpless, but real master of the system requires you to understand how your specific resource works, and when to utilize it to fullest effect.

>

> Beyond this I feel like the loss of damage types in the change from GW1 to GW2 was more of a fault than the developers realized. While something as simple as "this attack does fire damage, and this one does blunt damage" might not seem like that big a deal, the ability to give enemies these variable resistances adds a layer of strategy and planing that the game currently lacks. Imagine how much more interesting those old dungeons would have been if you needed to stop first and think about the setting and story of it, anticipate the resistances and damage dealt by the creatures therein, and adjust your build accordingly for each one. Lacking this feature results in players just making a single "meta" build for all content, or all content of a given type. But having these variable damage types would force players to utilize the inherent build flexibility of Guild Wars, multiple weapon and armor sets, and the build template function in a way they currently just...don't. That's actually why I believe the game released and went so long without build templates; we don't actually need them. Most players rarely change up their builds as is, but multiple damage types in the game would necessitate doing so much more often.

>

> "Oh it looks like the next Living World chapter is in the Shiverpeaks, time to grab my ice resistance armor and fire weapon."

> "Oh this dungeon is in the jungle area? Time to grab my poison resist gear and throw a few more condition removal skills on my bar."

> "Oh we're fighting a dragon this time? Give me a moment to grab my armor piercing everything."

>

> You just don't see that in Guild Wars 2, and I feel like the game is weaker for it.

 

Seems like a reasonable observation to me. My hobby horse is how the Mesmer changed from a class that countered and disrupted its foes into just another form of DPS, and the removal of damage types has certainly added to that loss of strategy. That said, I don't believe GW1 ever made much of it either - a lot of players gravitated towards armour-ignoring damage skills and using different sets of armour for different content was never much of a priority. There's only a handful of places, e.g. farming Vaettirs, where a dealing with a specific damage type would become critical to your build.

 

A game in the GW series doesn't need to gate high-level gear behind that much grind, so it seems fair for a hypothetical successor to be designed with the expectation that you're switching between multiple sets.

 

I'm on board with the resource management thing. The lack of that made GW2 a very spammy game, and it's become more so over time. That said, I think it's fine to just call the resource "energy" for all the classes except where there's a specific reason they need a different one.

[LucianDK.8615]

> @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > @"Arkham Creed.7358" said:

> > > @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > > Props for putting that much thought into it. I'm not sure this would be my cup of tea, but I'm more interested in the basics of how combat is structured (e.g. is it about timing attacks/blocks or counterplaying them, what strengths/weaknesses do players have to deal with, what's party composition like) than the specific details regarding each class.

> >

> > I see it as being more of an "opportunity cost" formula for combat. That is why I decided every class needed some sort of resource bar that drains and recharges through combat. While you'd have a basic combo attack, a standard block, and of course dodging, stronger foes and more powerful attacks would require slotted skills to deal with, and with resource management being so important players would need to carefully judge when to use that big flashy attack verses activate their shield skill. Think of it as a sort of Dark Souls-ish playstyle, but with basic attack and defense being no cost instead of tied to the stamina meter. Yes you can swing your sword a few times or block a hit here and there with no issue, but if you make a mistake and blow a chunk of your resource bar on a poorly timed attack or to evade an strike you could have otherwise sidestepped you're going to have a bad time. The "free" combat options are there so you're never helpless, but real master of the system requires you to understand how your specific resource works, and when to utilize it to fullest effect.

> >

> > Beyond this I feel like the loss of damage types in the change from GW1 to GW2 was more of a fault than the developers realized. While something as simple as "this attack does fire damage, and this one does blunt damage" might not seem like that big a deal, the ability to give enemies these variable resistances adds a layer of strategy and planing that the game currently lacks. Imagine how much more interesting those old dungeons would have been if you needed to stop first and think about the setting and story of it, anticipate the resistances and damage dealt by the creatures therein, and adjust your build accordingly for each one. Lacking this feature results in players just making a single "meta" build for all content, or all content of a given type. But having these variable damage types would force players to utilize the inherent build flexibility of Guild Wars, multiple weapon and armor sets, and the build template function in a way they currently just...don't. That's actually why I believe the game released and went so long without build templates; we don't actually need them. Most players rarely change up their builds as is, but multiple damage types in the game would necessitate doing so much more often.

> >

> > "Oh it looks like the next Living World chapter is in the Shiverpeaks, time to grab my ice resistance armor and fire weapon."

> > "Oh this dungeon is in the jungle area? Time to grab my poison resist gear and throw a few more condition removal skills on my bar."

> > "Oh we're fighting a dragon this time? Give me a moment to grab my armor piercing everything."

> >

> > You just don't see that in Guild Wars 2, and I feel like the game is weaker for it.

>

> Seems like a reasonable observation to me. My hobby horse is how the Mesmer changed from a class that countered and disrupted its foes into just another form of DPS, and the removal of damage types has certainly added to that loss of strategy. That said, I don't believe GW1 ever made much of it either - a lot of players gravitated towards armour-ignoring damage skills and using different sets of armour for different content was never much of a priority. There's only a handful of places, e.g. farming Vaettirs, where a dealing with a specific damage type would become critical to your build.

>

> A game in the GW series doesn't need to gate high-level gear behind that much grind, so it seems fair for a hypothetical successor to be designed with the expectation that you're switching between multiple sets.

>

> I'm on board with the resource management thing. The lack of that made GW2 a very spammy game, and it's become more so over time. That said, I think it's fine to just call the resource "energy" for all the classes except where there's a specific reason they need a different one.

 

Lack of resource management, are you kidding? It does exist

Like Warrior adrenaline, Revenant energy, Thief initiative or Necromancer lifeforce.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Lack of resource management, are you kidding? It does exist

> Like Warrior adrenaline, Revenant energy, Thief initiative or Necromancer lifeforce.

 

And that's pretty much it, really. Resources in GW2 are the exception, not the rule. What resource does the ranger use? What resource does the elementalist use? What about the engineer? Or maybe the mesmer? Most classes in this game are limited only by generic cool-downs, and they aren't even global. Now to be clear I **HATE** global cool-downs, but having every skill sitting with nothing to limit it but a few second cool-down that only applies to it voids strategy. You end up just using skills on cool-down instead of thinking about when and how to use them, or holding back in favor of something else. This even applies to the above classes because their resources don't apply to everything they do, but only specific skills or mechanics. There is no choice there, no strategy, you just spam things on cooldown and what resource you do have either recharges so quickly it doesn't matter, or is only use for specific abilities.

 

I hate the idea of a "rotation" in MMOs and other such games, because it reduces the combat encounter down to just mindless button mashing. As a practicing Dungeon Master I am constantly looking for ways to make my players use obscure abilities, think outside the box, or experiment with new tactics. If I ever see two encounters play out the same way I take it as a personal failure. I believe that games are active, you should be cognitively engaged the whole time, not just sitting back and pressing buttons in a set rotation. And that means you need to be constantly thinking about the situation and judging how to react.

 

 

[LucianDK.8615]

Theres long and complex rotations for the classes on snowcrows. So you shouldnt just hammer them mindlessly.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Theres long and complex rotations for the classes on snowcrows. So you shouldnt just hammer them mindlessly.

 

A long and complex rotation is still a rotation. I don't believe combat should ever be scripted. A plan is fine, but running down a script, even a "complex" one, is a fault. And while a lot of this would come down to enemy and AI design, a more strict resource system applied to EVERY class would help to get players into that headspace early. If you can just storm into an area and defeat the encounter by following a script, it's a bad encounter. These things need to be dynamic, with changing mechanics and attack patterns, and ideally learning AI that counters your rotation.

 

I would actually do this with a reactive AI script that watches players in each encounter, and if it sees the same abilities or tactics play out in the same way more than a few times, it reacts by changing tactics or even monster stats to void that rotation. For example, if you keep using a melee attack chain that begins with a stun, the AI "director" will instruct all creatures in that area to begin their aggressive behavior with a dodge and counter lunge; in effect baiting the players to wiff their stun, and punishing the attempt with a big hit. This would blow up that rotation mid-encounter and force players to adapt on the fly. In my opinion THAT would be a superior game.

[Teratus.2859]

Prefer the Necromancer as it is would not care for it being merged with Thief at all.

 

If anything Necromancer would be better merged with Revenant than Thief but I wouldn't want that either.

 

Necromancer is one of the 5 surviving classes from Gw1 where as the other 5 classes were either changed or abandoned.

If there is to be a Gw3 then I firmly believe that the 5 surviving core classes from Gw1, Mesmer, Warrior, Elementalist, Necromancer and Ranger must remain at least in concept the same as they are.

 

As for Thief.. I would prefer to see it go back to more Assassin roots tbh.

Specially if Gw3 prioratized story with class rather than race, which is a change I would support and feel is far more relevant to your character than race is.

 

One change I would make though is to make Necromancer a Soldier class rather than Scholar.. this is mostly to play on it's Dark Knight elements which exist in Gw2.

Many of us who have played more tanky Necromancers know that Necromancer is abnormally strong for a light armour Scholar class.. outperforming even Soldier classes at facetanking at times.

Necromancers are also known to wear metalic/cloth armours as well in both Gw1 and Gw2 we have metalic armour that fits Necromancer very well.

Bladed Armour in Gw2 being one such set.

 

Rather than light medium heavy armour being restricted to class type I'd rather see each class type in Gw3 have a class that uses one of each variant.

For example!

Soldier class:

Guardian: Heavy Armour

Warrior: Medium Armour

Necromancer: Light Armour

 

Adventurer class: possibly renamed to Freelance/Mercenary class

Revenant: Heavy Armour

Ranger Medium: Armour

Assassin: Light Armour

 

Scholar class:

Engineer: Heavy Armour

Mesmer: Medium Armour

Elementalist: Light Armour

 

Naturally that means each class type would have 3 tiers of armour rating and could be adjusted individually as needed.

Heavy having the highest defense and Hp of their Class.

While Light having lowest defense and Hp but various ways of sustaining, healing or avoiding damage to cover for it.

Necros get their lifesteal and Shroud, Elementalists have their water healing and elemental shields and Assassins have evades and blinds.

 

[Teratus.2859]

> @"Arkham Creed.7358" said:

> "Oh it looks like the next Living World chapter is in the Shiverpeaks, time to grab my ice resistance armor and fire weapon."

> "Oh this dungeon is in the jungle area? Time to grab my poison resist gear and throw a few more condition removal skills on my bar."

> "Oh we're fighting a dragon this time? Give me a moment to grab my armor piercing everything."

>

> You just don't see that in Guild Wars 2, and I feel like the game is weaker for it.

 

This was one of my biggest criticisms for Gw2 for many years.. still is tbh.

 

The game is weaker for it because Gw1 actually had mechanics like that.

You couldn't bleed elementals in Gw1.. Fire magic did more damage to ice enemies.. light magic did more damage to undead etc.

There is very limited stuff like this in Gw2.. can't blind dredge for example.. but it's not the same.

They put mechanics over that sense of realism to make the condition system viable in Gw2 but I'd rather have the realism in all honesty and have damaging conditions play a different role in Gw3

[Ben K.6238]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > I'm on board with the resource management thing. The lack of that made GW2 a very spammy game, and it's become more so over time. That said, I think it's fine to just call the resource "energy" for all the classes except where there's a specific reason they need a different one.

>

> Lack of resource management, are you kidding? It does exist

> Like Warrior adrenaline, Revenant energy, Thief initiative or Necromancer lifeforce.

 

I've noticed. I've been playing the game a little longer than two days.

 

The problem is the Guardian, Ranger, Engineer, Mesmer and Elementalist have no significant resource management beyond cooldowns. That means any of the classes that have some sort of resource to work with still have to be balanced to compete with those that don't. As a result, adrenaline on Warriors is a token gesture, while Necromancer life force (and the Druid equivalent) don't restrict the skills you use in those forms, so they encourage even more spamming until you run out of time.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

> @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > > @"Ben K.6238" said:

> > > I'm on board with the resource management thing. The lack of that made GW2 a very spammy game, and it's become more so over time. That said, I think it's fine to just call the resource "energy" for all the classes except where there's a specific reason they need a different one.

> >

> > Lack of resource management, are you kidding? It does exist

> > Like Warrior adrenaline, Revenant energy, Thief initiative or Necromancer lifeforce.

>

> I've noticed. I've been playing the game a little longer than two days.

>

> The problem is the Guardian, Ranger, Engineer, Mesmer and Elementalist have no significant resource management beyond cooldowns. That means any of the classes that have some sort of resource to work with still have to be balanced to compete with those that don't. As a result, adrenaline on Warriors is a token gesture, while Necromancer life force (and the Druid equivalent) don't restrict the skills you use in those forms, so they encourage even more spamming until you run out of time.

 

Exactly. In these kinds of games resources are an all or nothing situation, either everyone has a resource, or nobody does. And I don't mean that to be cute, I mean that in GW2 these resources are so lax that they basically don't count. They don't affect how you play the game, they are just annoying extra cool-downs to deal with. When I'm on my revenant the energy bar doesn't alter how I play or make me think about my skill use; it just forces me to stop for a few seconds and wait for a global cool-down a few times a fight.

[Trise.2865]

So Guild Wars 1. You want a Guild Wars 1 Remaster.

[Arkham Creed.7358]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> So Guild Wars 1. You want a Guild Wars 1 Remaster.

 

No, but there are certain specific aspects of the Guild Wars 1 formula that I feel are superior to their Guild Wars 2 equivalents, and thus I feel that a hypothetical Guild Wars 3 would benefit from going back to its roots.

[Klypto.1703]

The thing with things in other games is even if they are horrible like the things mentioned no one wants to go play another game doing the same exact thing some other game has been doing. Is a major reason this franchise keeps getting players because they come here to get away from that crap.

[Trise.2865]

> @"Arkham Creed.7358" said:

> > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > So Guild Wars 1. You want a Guild Wars 1 Remaster.

>

> No, but there are certain specific aspects of the Guild Wars 1 formula that I feel are superior to their Guild Wars 2 equivalents, and thus I feel that a hypothetical Guild Wars 3 would benefit from going back to its roots.

 

Guild Wars Fire Red

[Arkham Creed.7358]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> > @"Arkham Creed.7358" said:

> > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > So Guild Wars 1. You want a Guild Wars 1 Remaster.

> >

> > No, but there are certain specific aspects of the Guild Wars 1 formula that I feel are superior to their Guild Wars 2 equivalents, and thus I feel that a hypothetical Guild Wars 3 would benefit from going back to its roots.

>

> Guild Wars Fire Red

 

So if you're totally against looking to the most successful (and often requested) features of the previous game, what would you suggest GW3 be? Just GW2 but with better graphics?