Top-end damage from Deadeye's

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @Crinn.7864 said:

> > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > @Geikamir.6329 said:

> > > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > > > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > > > Graverdigger is a 1.25 second cast, is a melee attack, and has both a distinctive audio cue and animation tell, and is on a class with no stealth access.

> > > > >

> > > > > I still hit people with gravedigger all the time even at the plat2 level.

> > > > >

> > > > > A 0.75 second cast from 1500 range is relatively easy to land. Imho OHK attacks should be minimum 2 seconds casts.

> > > > >

> > > > Again it’s more than just DJ that cause the damage, Gravedigger also does A lot more damage than DJ by itself, and can hit 5 targets and doesn’t apply Debuff onto the caster while DJ is just one target and takes other skills and a lot longer set up to get large numbers so false equivalence #funfact

> > > >

> > >

> > > DJ is 3/4 a second after leaving stealth from 1,500 distance. And also, show me a gravedigger than did 21k to someone.

> >

> > Reading comp must be hard I said it has a Base Damage that is a lot higher than DJ, since it takes multiple skills to get large Numbers from DJ and more than 12 Secs Of setup.

> >

> > And coming from stealth means the damage came from stealth, not oh the damage came from a Revealed player....

>

> Gravedigger caps out at 12k and that's only if you're running a berserker setup with lots of might.

>

> Death's Judgement frequently hits in the 15k+ range on marauder builds.

 

One more time I said Base Damage all by its lonesome Gravedigger is higher, w/ a lot higher coefficient compared to Death’s Judgement by itself.

Reading comp it’s a valuable skill.

 

Now it takes two skills and quite a bit of time to make DJs do more damage than Gravedigger and it’s only single target.

 

Like I said before your Gravedigger example is a false equivalency.

 

I couldn’t care less if they nerf it but they would have to rework a lot since no other class has to give up quite a bit for a small amount of damage boost over others. I’m just here setting the record straight that a people claim it’s high Burst From stealth with zero tells.

[Crinn.7864]

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > > @Geikamir.6329 said:

> > > > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > > > > Graverdigger is a 1.25 second cast, is a melee attack, and has both a distinctive audio cue and animation tell, and is on a class with no stealth access.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I still hit people with gravedigger all the time even at the plat2 level.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A 0.75 second cast from 1500 range is relatively easy to land. Imho OHK attacks should be minimum 2 seconds casts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > Again it’s more than just DJ that cause the damage, Gravedigger also does A lot more damage than DJ by itself, and can hit 5 targets and doesn’t apply Debuff onto the caster while DJ is just one target and takes other skills and a lot longer set up to get large numbers so false equivalence #funfact

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > DJ is 3/4 a second after leaving stealth from 1,500 distance. And also, show me a gravedigger than did 21k to someone.

> > >

> > > Reading comp must be hard I said it has a Base Damage that is a lot higher than DJ, since it takes multiple skills to get large Numbers from DJ and more than 12 Secs Of setup.

> > >

> > > And coming from stealth means the damage came from stealth, not oh the damage came from a Revealed player....

> >

> > Gravedigger caps out at 12k and that's only if you're running a berserker setup with lots of might.

> >

> > Death's Judgement frequently hits in the 15k+ range on marauder builds.

>

> One more time I said Base Damage all by its lonesome Gravedigger is higher, w/ a lot higher coefficient compared to Death’s Judgement by itself.

> Reading comp it’s a valuable skill.

>

> Now it takes two skills and quite a bit of time to make DJs do more damage than Gravedigger and it’s only single target.

>

> Like I said before your Gravedigger example is a false equivalency.

>

> I couldn’t care less if they nerf it but they would have to rework a lot since no other class has to give up quite a bit for a small amount of damage boost over others. I’m just here setting the record straight that a people claim it’s high Burst From stealth with zero tells.

 

Yes but thief has a large amount of damage mods that make Death's Judgement a infinitely harder hitting skill. Also "small amount of damage boost" is this a joke? Thief is already the hardest hitting class in the game with the best escape toolkit in the game.

 

Yes Death's judgement has a "tell" but its a relatively small one for a OHK skill.

 

 

[Geikamir.6329]

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> A> @Geikamir.6329 said:

> > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > > @Geikamir.6329 said:

> > > > > @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > > > > > @Crinn.7864 said:

> > > > > > Graverdigger is a 1.25 second cast, is a melee attack, and has both a distinctive audio cue and animation tell, and is on a class with no stealth access.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I still hit people with gravedigger all the time even at the plat2 level.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A 0.75 second cast from 1500 range is relatively easy to land. Imho OHK attacks should be minimum 2 seconds casts.

> > > > > >

> > > > > Again it’s more than just DJ that cause the damage, Gravedigger also does A lot more damage than DJ by itself, and can hit 5 targets and doesn’t apply Debuff onto the caster while DJ is just one target and takes other skills and a lot longer set up to get large numbers so false equivalence #funfact

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > DJ is 3/4 a second after leaving stealth from 1,500 distance. And also, show me a gravedigger than did 21k to someone.

> > >

> > > Reading comp must be hard I said it has a Base Damage that is a lot higher than DJ, since it takes multiple skills to get large Numbers from DJ and more than 12 Secs Of setup.

> > >

> > > And coming from stealth means the damage came from stealth, not oh the damage came from a Revealed player....

> >

> > 'Coming from' means that at one point you were in a place and now you are leaving that place. There is really no other way to interpret I thought. But, as you said, reading comprehension is hard.

> >

> > The '12 seconds of set up' is such a bogus claim. It can be shortened in various ways and all you need to do is mark, invis, and wait. Or mark, attack for a while, eventually stealth, and 1-shot. And in a team fight, a Deadeye can tee-off on the opposing team from one of the longest possible distances in the game.

>

> One damage coming from stealth means the damage comes from stealth not someone revealed before any damage is applied like idk Back stab or any other attack that deals damage from stealth you know not Revealed in plain sight, again Reading comp must be hard, two not the longest possible Range Ranger Longbow Outdistances all Thief Rifle Skills and oh yeah 10.5 secs while constantly attacking the Marked Target is so much different from 12 secs lulz #funfact.

 

The spec does damage coming **from** stealth. It was in stealth and it's now coming from in it. The damage is not with the spec **IN** stealth.

 

Also, I clearly said _one of the longest_. I feel like you are projecting your poor reading comprehension on others as an attempt to feel superior or something. It is one of the longest.

 

So if 10.5 seconds and 12 seconds are basically the same, isn't 3/4 of a second basically instant?

[Egorum.9506]

Deaths judgement with quickness is .375s cast time. Increasing the cast time to 1s and making the laser a bit more prominent to get over the visual clutter seems like the best way to handle it. Leave the damage honestly, just needs better counterplay options

[nacario.9417]

> @Aza.2105 said:

> > @nacario.9417 said:

> > > @Aza.2105 said:

> > > I can't believe you guys are saying 21k damage is ok. That's nearly twice as much as the lowest tier base health and more than the highest tier health. You guys are insane.

> >

> > There are many things that are questionable if "ok". Yes 21k dmg is not normal, but look at the grand picture. So you have to be a deadeye to do that damage, that already gimps you in other aspects, especially when in higher play/leg play where you easily get focused. A deadeye has lower mobility so forget about being able to decap like a daredevil, and deadeye is an has little to offer in Group fights, other than its range and damage which you can LoS or focus the guy. Any class should have a cooldown or two to counter the deadeye burst, use them well to shut him down, otherwise he will do damage to you. It's the same thing on a deadeye, if you let the enemy, let's say a burn guard open on you for a few seconds you are toasted. That's the difference between being a meatsack or someone who actively use his abilities.

> >

>

> I don't want to hear any excuses. It doesn't matter what a class can or can't do. That kind of damage is unacceptable. Players are not raid bosses. When people say that the damage is ok and its a l2p issue and that you should just "dodge". What they really are saying is that gw2 is just dodge or die. Think about the balance there, if you don't dodge you die in one hit. Even in pve the stuff that one shots you typically has a long cast time or a very obvious sign (like a giant glob on the floor), in addition its also very predictable. In pvp you have 4 other characters possibly hitting on you who might be doing just as much damage. So who you going to dodge? That spellbreaker, scourge etc etc? Its just too much. None of this stuff is ok. Rock gazelle isn't ok, spellbreaker isn't ok, scourge instant conditions aren't ok, getting hit for 21k at long range by something you may or may not see isn't ok, DH traps were never ok, all the invuls and blocks going around isn't ok.

>

> The game is a freaking mess.

>

 

Again, that damagae is okay for two reasons: tje deadeye is already limited in other areas and good players will shut him down. Two, other pof builds are powerhouses overall, look at all the utility the holosmith has that could deny a deadeye, and the damage. Look at scourge with its massive aoes for onpoint denial, spellbreakers being 1v1 gods, ranger gazelle can do 20k+ on its charge, everything is on steriods. So yes, deadeye is ok, and the top thieves dont even roll it as its just not good enough overall. You cant deny all these facts, and if deadeye were to be damahe nerf, then all these other classes needs nerfs too.

[Kaitori.8564]

I haven't seen a deadeye in my past 50 games, guess why? cause it's useless

[Vertep.2498]

why everyone who not played DE rifle cant understant DE need time to prepare this high 1hit while standing in good safe place not bringing anything to team score expect this killonce per 20-30 seconds in good conditions and normal thief will bring more even more assist with killing enemies, thats why DE have that hard hitting 1 skill which will 1hit once per those 20-30 seconds while being squishy af, more than normal thief because lack of mobility and evade spam

 

and now to comparing your necro with gravedigger...as cast time is longer and you wrote you have no problem with killing people with this as it have longer cast time, its aoe, it have no cooldown if used on enemy with low health and necro can survive much more damage than DE which have no defense behind limited evades/teleports (while normal thief have much much more and is hard to hit whiel DE while evade those 2-3 times and its end, he even dont have that mobility to run away fast)

 

EDIT: if you dnt want 1hitting skill from DE then give to him more mobility like in daredevil instead of this 1hit skill with more viable skills to deal damage from rifle because every other skill is shit in compare to just p/p

[silent killer.5732]

> @shippage.1983 said:

> There's a way to get around that... it's called "dodge". Also that's a Deadeye, not Daredevil. Deadeye is actually really easy to counter, you just need basic awareness. Once they pop up you just smack them because they have next to no health. The gun is loud, and they need to build malice before doing most of their damage which lets you know they're coming.

>

> It's not a 1-shot, it's a long channeled attack, and you can easily see you're marked so their one-shot actually takes really long to build up. If you see you're marked, you have easily 5 seconds to get ready for the burst, which is a very long time in PvP.

>

> You can put up an invuln, break LoS by running behind objects, prepare a burst/interrupt right back at their face, dodge roll, there's a lot of ways to deal with them. If you can't react within that period of time with a counter, then that's entirely a L2P issue.

>

> Daredevil needs a buff if anything.

 

Its 5 v 5 how you supposed to escape from the 5 sec set up if you already in fight with another player?

And you can't go for the deadeye because most of them are hide behind all of their allies

 

 

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @Sarrs.4831 said:

> 21k damage with no context. For all I know it's 25 might zerk v zerk shot.

>

> Deadeyes have a fundamental weakness: they are projectile class. Use LoS. Use projectile destroying or reflecting effects.

>

> >@Ithilwen.1529 said:

> >That's not the point. The DE can mark, then leave combat and wait. When they return they have a huge free burst. There's no way to remove the mark. So this is a death burst without reasonable counterplay.

>

> I haven't actually played spvp since PoF launch but it seems like a very good counter to this would be getting a buddy to go and kill him.

 

That doesn't make sense. To illustrate what I mean, my skill bar carries a heal, blink, portal, and decoy. Each of these skills is critical, though decoy less so.

 

Sure, I could equip feedback. Doing so would make me considerably weaker. In return, I'd get a short reflect on a very long cool down. Beside that, the DE could simply wait for the reflect to fall and still do there burst.

 

To claim that this skill makes DE damage OK ignores the realities of playing PvP.

 

[vorpal.1497]

It effectively hits from stealth. GW2 has always had a client/server problem with stealth for some reason (way back they claimed it was something to do with the wvw culling tech), where your client generally will fail to render the revealed player for 3+ seconds. It's not a connection issue, as the hits from the revealed player register just fine.

[Sarrs.4831]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

>

> That doesn't make sense. To illustrate what I mean, my skill bar carries a heal, blink, portal, and decoy. Each of these skills is critical, though decoy less so.

>

> Sure, I could equip feedback. Doing so would make me considerably weaker. In return, I'd get a short reflect on a very long cool down. Beside that, the DE could simply wait for the reflect to fall and still do there burst.

>

> To claim that this skill makes DE damage OK ignores the realities of playing PvP.

>

 

I'm not really saying that you personally are responsible for forcing out every single Deadeye that you ever see. Feedback might not fit into your lineup, but a lot of classes specialize in projectile destruction and reflection. Tempests bring a good amount of it, and can send it to support their friends. Scrappers do a bunch. Necromancers can slot a very efficient Master of Corruption Corrosive Poison Cloud, which I pretty frequently recommend to Necromancers which are having issues in WvW dealing with projectile based classes. These make worse matchups for the Rifle Deadeye by a non-trivial amount, when you can force them to either close & engage or you can use the relieved pressure to let your CDs run down.

 

You could also run Mirror, or the trait that grants you auto-mirror when you use Manipulation skills. It's a shame there aren't especially good Manipulation skills other than Blink though.

[Murdock.6547]

Power mesmer.

Less setup, more mobility, stuns you from stealth then instagib.

And if youre a mirage it can also be while you evade.

 

Yet not a single thread exists. Why?

 

Say it with me.

 

The build is objectively bad. Its easily read and dealt with, and iirc shatters are blockable?

 

So is DJ. Its also reflectable, projectile destroyable, and can be blocked by terrain. There is more tells on dj from stealth than there is from mesmers instantcast stun followed by around 1 second give or take of your hp vanishing.

[Geikamir.6329]

Mesmers are easier to read because their illusions and phantasms are always visible. You always know where the damage is coming from and when it's about to come.

 

All of the damage from Deadeye can come just after they exit stealth from an unknown location at a distance of up to 1,500 away.

 

And Mesmers can't do 21k damage in a single hit.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

With other classes out there that are sustainability stronger, you are picking on DE? DE is weak af. 1 projectile block and they are shut down. 1 reflect and they are shut down. Timing your own stealth will shut them down. Channeled attacks shut them down.

[Elxdark.9702]

mmm that's why I've seen like 5 deadeyes in 250+ matches.

nerf pls

[Jephery.8915]

Deadeye Rifle is trading its roaming ability (Rifle instead of Short Bow), or its 1v1 capability (Rifle instead of D/X or S/X), for being able to shut someone down at range, if that person is setup for the burst (or is bad and can't dodge).

 

I think its a fair tradeoff.

[ramorambo.6701]

> @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > @Vertep.2498 said:

> > > @Ithilwen.1529 said:

> > > *The biggest problem that I'm encountering is there is no counter for being marked.* Invisibility, condi cleanse, LOS... nothing works. The DE can actually mark, then go completely out of LOS and simply let it tick. That's wrong. It's pretty much a free kill pass.

> >

> > DE mark do no any damage, its just passively to increase caster damage to marked foe and only how mark can deal damage its only while activating stolen skill which also have low damage and need to be in range to deal this damage

>

> That's not the point. The DE can mark, then leave combat and wait. When they return they have a huge free burst. There's no way to remove the mark. So this is a death burst without reasonable counterplay.

 

Deadeye's Mark:

Mark a single target to generate stacks of malice over time. Malice generates faster and increases your damage against the marked target as long as you have recently struck it.

 

Nope you can't go out of combat and also you need to keep hitting the target to get full stacks, yeah the burst is nonsense but i've never seen a single succesful DE over 1.2k pvp rating, the only way a DE can kill you is if he can catch you without dodges or reflects or any sort of wall around you, after the first 2 unloads you can blink to him with almost all classes, it's really a bad designed spec both for the way it gets his results done and for howsuch spec works only against low skilled players.

[Liewec.2896]

theres too much waiting for rifle deadeye nuke,

i made a zerker p/p deadeye with "be quick or be dead" and Unforgiving and it is FREAKING RIDICULOUS!

you mark them, then unload spam and they get stunned and they're dead within 2 seconds :sweat_smile:

[ParanoidKami.2867]

Tried out my Deadeye on a golem and I got 13k against a light golem, though I had to switch to Malificent Seven for more damage in order to get that. Switched to Berserker from Marauder and added an Assassins Signet for 15k. Would probably have to change some trait lines for max damage to hit 21k. If they're running Executioner they only get the 20% damage if you're under 50% health so you would be dead with Three Round Burst if they wanted to. If the Thief is so heavy damage that they can 21k they probably have no survivability so just pressure them and they die. Ignoring a high damage dealer is generally a bad idea. Should be your first target.

[ZhouX.8742]

> @BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

> > @Geikamir.6329 said:

> > The activation is only 3/4's of a second. In a team fight this is essentially instantly. Not everything is 1v1 where you can always have 100% awareness and access to your all of your skills/dodge.

> >

> > Being able to 1-shot from stealth is not ok. It is not a fair or balanced amount of damage to be able to deal so quickly and stealthily.

> >

>

> Again can’t One shot with Death’s Judgement from stealth..... simple facts. On top of being completely impossible to One shot from Stealth with Death’s Judgement, it has 3 obvious tells built in, bright orange Laser before projectile ever leaves Weapon? Check, Glowing Red Projectile with long particle trail? Check, Audio Queue audible to the Target of attack? Check.

>

> On top of the semi long Cast since anything with a cast can be easily avoided/interrupted, and one last time the damage can never come from Stealth, and there is also the added Tell of a Mark.

>

 

Semi long cast? It's 3/4 a second activation time, shorter than most heals, also you can be anywhere in a 1,500 range- while fighting potentially 4 other people you can see why this would be rather unhealthy.

 

In a duel scenario i can see that being fine, even a 2v2 scenario as well , but to be able to get a reward of 21k from a 3/4 cast time out of stealth unto which you could be anywhere is too easy to pull off in anything larger than that. It also has a massive range , longer than most people's teleports or abilities to even get near said deadeye to interrupt or pressure him.

 

I'm not sure it should be nerfed, but it is definitely questionable what constitutes as healthy for the game in terms of outputting damage from a single attack regardless of prep.

 

I mean we're essentially asking for Gazelle pet nerfs based on this logic, no entity should be able to output 20k+ in a single attack.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

DE isn't the problem. Its the fact that there is a new mechanic out that Meta builds do not account for, and 80%+ of people dont spec to defend/counter it, or don't want to learn how to properly fight it. There are a lot of ways to avoid this "30k nuke". Learn/Adapt as t here are obvious tells. If you refuse to, then you are the only one to blame. There are other issues that should be tackled first. Learning to fight vs a clunky rifled DE isnt one of em.

[ChocolateBlaze.7840]

LMFAO people in here saying "L2P. gitgud. it has a tell. dodge." So 21K oneshots from a deadeye is okay, but a gazelle 20K oneshots (FROM AN AI CONTROLLED UNIT) was not even remotely okay in the slightest.

[Geikamir.6329]

> @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

> DE isn't the problem. Its the fact that there is a new mechanic out that Meta builds do not account for, and 80%+ of people dont spec to defend/counter it, or don't want to learn how to properly fight it. There are a lot of ways to avoid this "30k nuke". Learn/Adapt as t here are obvious tells. If you refuse to, then you are the only one to blame. There are other issues that should be tackled first. Learning to fight vs a clunky rifled DE isnt one of em.

 

There should never be a skill in PvP that does 21k damage. It's entirely too powerful and swingy for the amount of hp we have (on average).

[Velimere.7685]

Saw Phantaram get one-shot by Deadeye multiple times during his stream today. He calculated that no matter what build he was running, it would always be a one-shot on an Elementalist without actively avoiding it.

[Razor.9872]

3/4 seconds is quite a long time. That's nearly a full second. Now if it was a 1/4 second cast we'd be talking, but 3/4 is perfectly reactable.