Swagger.1459 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L A T I O N.8923 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > Almost feels more like a reboot than a balance patch. I'm okay with that. Sometimes if the house needs enough work, tearing it down and starting over is more efficient. > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^ Words of wisdom folks! > > > > > > > > > > Problem is we're not tearing it down. Not even close. > > > > > The designers are building atop a dilapidated old house but leaving a significant chunk of its crumbling foundation and framing, and then trying to build off that, effectively removing a lot of what is and was good in the process, while still leaving some major problems for the future. > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is still here. Expansion gearsets are still here. T7 food is still massively OP and based on what basically amounts to a fetch quest dependent on elements of map completion. The DBL still has bad mechanics. Boonballing/AoE spamming is still not beatable with alternative strategies. Condi was barely affected and its burst was literally made stronger for some builds/classes, especially with the cleanse nerfs. Stuff like my off-meta yet hilariously-overpowered (in WvW) 4k+ armor condi ranger that I can already 1v2/1v3 glass burst builds with had almost no changes at all made to it, and its primary "skillset" is to mash 1. Skill expression for a lot of builds based on kit design didn't actually improve or really change much. Any given dominant build is going to just be better than the others by massive margins, but not as powerful by the numbers as today. > > > > > > > > > > ANet addressed one thing: TTK, which wasn't a problem AT ALL with weapon skill coefficients *EXCEPT* for elite spec weapons. We literally played for years with the same numbers lol. TTK *could* have been even lower than today at several points in the game's history. And you know what? Nobody cared, because there were only a few mechanics that caused unfair fast deaths. And none of them were based on coefficients and stats *EXCEPT* for the condi ones, because those cheese builds happened to always be brainless AF. > > > > > > > > > > This isn't starting anew. This is taking a "safe route" to protect elite spec relative powercreep and not make anyone in PvE upset because the strong builds/rotations aren't going to change with skill redesigns, and not make anyone in the PvP modes upset that they actually introduced design changes to kits and trait lines that desperately need it, to ensure people don't get literally outplayed. > > > > > > > > > > Passives are the best example here. They boosted cooldowns to 5 minutes, effectively making the traits dead traits. The mere idea of a potent passive triggered effect being unpredictable and completely throwing calculated play out of whack is not changing. Instead of addressing that issue - combat system visibility and power in passive triggered traits, they're nerfing their frequency to obscurity so they're not longer a no-skill staple in combat and just leaving them, broken mechanics attached. > > > > > > > > > > A huge majority of problems in the game are design-level and with boons. That's it. The patch before HoT was the best this game's ever been. Why? People were running berserker/valkyrie gear with way less health and sustain on average. People died even faster. But when you got bursted quickly, you almost always deserved it. It's just not the case now, because very little of the gameplay today as far as dealing damage is concerned is active thanks to the mechanics and higher numbers introduced with expansion content. > > > > > > > > > > You can't just build a house on top of a crumbling foundation and the ruins of the previous home that fell apart. It doesn't matter what you do or even how good of a job you do at building another house. You need to inspect why the old one collapsed and address it directly so it doesn't happen again. > > > > > > > > > > So many people have spoken out as to why they quit. The pro PvP players in their last days had a huge thread directly talking about these issues shortly before they all quit and the scene disbanded explaining the same things. The thread got deleted because it was holding people accountable made by actual experts of the PvP scene. I've said my piece speaking for my guild and a few others I've been in since almost everyone just left quietly to other games. > > > > > > > > > > I'm still here because most people want to come back. The other games aren't as good as peak GW2. But they're not going to come back with gimmicks like nerfing base power. If TTK is low because of expansion powercreep, the expansion powercreep needs nerfing/changing/removing and nothing else. > > > > > > > > Umm this is just the beginning. > > > > > > > > Cal- “This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm” > > > > > > > > Irenio- “We're planning many changes of this nature, as well as re-works and more.” > > > > > > > > You should watch from 57m on… > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is the beginning. It's the beginning of a lot of additional maintenance as my post implies. > > > What I said is that they didn't hit the fundamental game-breaking aspects of the mode, and by making all these changes, they're setting themselves up for a huge amount of rework later on. > > > > > > Talk is cheap, and they lack any information as to how successful they're going to be, which is why I don't care what they say in a stream. They've been saying it's been a priority for years and when it comes to ideas for necessary changes, the whole "ANet's Table" meme comes to mind. The "borderlands improvements" via DBL come to mind. The reveal for alliances comes to mind. The reveal and announcements for improved infrastructure for GvG comes to mind. Fixing consumables comes to mind. Fixing lag comes to mind. Improving gameplay visibility comes to mind. And here we still are, years later, with none of those actually resolved or even substantially improved except maybe for lag (but they threw more hardware at the problems instead of fixing the cause as was mentioned in a previous dev statement: It's conditions/tick effects), and a number of them exacerbated; We still have a DBL that nobody plays or enjoys, which was only because ANet dug their heels in about needing to keep one of said maps and reverting two of the ABL's. GvG-oriented gameplay is dead thanks to class balance that people said was why it started dying in the first place, the consumable disparity is bigger than ever, the profession design keeps inflating lag, and we have two elite specs that were released which were based on non-interaction and hiding gameplay visibility. > > > > > > PoF launched what, like two and a half years ago? If major balance patches come three times a year, we're like 7-8 patches deep and the game's still tremendously broken. At a four to six week cadence, we're looking at between eight months and a year just to make that level of progress, and that's discounting that the warclaw and T7 food are only recent additions which are almost unanimously disliked by people who want to actually play WvW as a capture and hold mode instead of a ktrain. > > > > > > They could have reduced the scope by 90% and almost fixed WvW by listening to the experienced community. The choice to ignore the outlier problems nullifies everything else they're going to do irrespective of the number and severity of changes they make until those outlier problems are addressed in some capacity. > > > > They have to start somewhere. > > A puppy pooping on the floor does not deserve a treat when pooping on the floor because of the mere fact it pooped. > > ANet is not entitled to any of my praises because of the mere fact they're changing the game. > Like the dog, when those changes aren't **** on the floor, I'll dole them out. Are you telling everyone how to do their jobs? Good Luck in life i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunya.4920 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 ...deleted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Nunya.4920" said: > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > > It isn't surprising that the majority of the people who complain about these changes play alot of Necros and Thieves while other people who complain are likely to play other classes that rests upon similar mechanics and styles. However, they have been spoiled by being allowed to do things for quite a long time now that they never should have been able to do. At the same time, people who are very experienced on those classes, you don't hear them complaining. They have a more sober understanding of it and know what balance implies. That doesn't mean that they can't have concerns with any changes but they won't leave (some are rather comming back because their own class/style is toned down to balance) and they adress concerns in better ways. > ****From a player who has been in wvw for months, Not years, here is how it looks to me; Thieves, necros And mesmers, I get nerfing their condi and abilities. Those classes in wvw will kill you faster than you can blink. But why are they nerfing Ranger/Soulbeast ? At times I can barely kill the NPC's ! To the haters that I'm sure will pop up after this comment, I have never played pvp in my life, (because pvp is a nasty bit of work that I can't see enjoying, unless there are rewards for being a decent human. Snorts*) so should that exclude me from wvw ? I was told that anyone was allowed to play wvw. If I can't even roam to take camps and towers in wvw, I will have nothing to do. The NA server/team, I'm on, ( I don't know what to call it because I keep getting corrected that it is a 'Mega server. Huge Eye-roll, cause yeah, it has to have a name) is so outnumbered, that I can already do very little. When I come on, usually all of my teams stuff is being camped by either very good players, (or hackers, not sure which) trolling us at our spawn point. They don't even want to let us try to play, they just want to camp us and gloat nastily. Oh and btw, I am Nothing like a thief, necro Or mesmer. I wish I also had some unfair advantage in wvw, but now, my very much NOT OP'd class is getting nerfed too. Brilliant. :angry: ****** Lol soulbeast not being just as strong or stronger than the rest. Thanks for the laugh. Here's the simple fact: players on all classes and builds vary from bad to good. One moment you can toy with a soulbeast, the next you get locked down and killed in one rapid fire, or meet a boonbeast thats immortal, or meet a melee roflstomper. And then after those you again meet one that gets so owned *you* get embarrassed for killing him. Skill matter much more than people give credit for and we got to judge classes by the good, not the bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunya.4920 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 ...deleted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Nunya.4920" said: > > Lol soulbeast not being just as strong or stronger than the rest. Thanks for the laugh. > > > > Here's the simple fact: players on all classes and builds vary from bad to good. One moment you can toy with a soulbeast, the next you get locked down and killed in one rapid fire, or meet a boonbeast thats immortal, or meet a melee roflstomper. And then after those you again meet one that gets so owned *you* get embarrassed for killing him. Skill matter much more than people give credit for and we got to judge classes by the good, not the bad. > Oh really ? Well I am not nor have I ever been that powerful, and I don't have Any pets that can't be killed quite easily. And Yes, I have all the pets. but what you describe is not even close to me. > I have seen almost impossible to kill SB in wvw, but that's because they usually have very good back up. I'm not talking about groups, large or small, or even hackers. I mean just a normal ranger or SB in exotic gear with nothing special about them. At first I didn't see the part about being embarrassed, but I highly doubt most players I've come across feel that way. Usually they are stomping on your toons dead head and rolling on ur body laughing. Oh, and that rapid fire you speak of, that lasts for maybe less than a second ? That is the Only advantage a Normal ranger/SB, who is not a hacker, or who doesn't have some excellent backup, has, so it needs to have Some power. But by all means, take it away, just because you say so, eh ? So? What does that say about the class? I cant play a warrior for the life of me. At the same time I've foughts vaans... 3v1 and we still couldnt kill him. 1v1, obvious roflstomp. So am I supposed to argue that because I cant play a warrior, its the worst class in WvW that does no damage at all and cant kill anything, despite knowing the capability of the warrior in good hands? **BuFf WaRRioR To WeAK!!!** Lets not even *begin* to talk about how bad I am on a thief or necro. Decent on a mesmer though. So I guess thats OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nunya.4920 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 ...deleted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Nunya.4920" said: > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > > It isn't surprising that the majority of the people who complain about these changes play alot of Necros and Thieves while other people who complain are likely to play other classes that rests upon similar mechanics and styles. However, they have been spoiled by being allowed to do things for quite a long time now that they never should have been able to do. At the same time, people who are very experienced on those classes, you don't hear them complaining. They have a more sober understanding of it and know what balance implies. That doesn't mean that they can't have concerns with any changes but they won't leave (some are rather comming back because their own class/style is toned down to balance) and they adress concerns in better ways. > ****From a player who has been in wvw for months, Not years, here is how it looks to me; Welcome to WvW. It is good to have someone new. Hopefully you’ll see what I write next as constructive and not adversarial. >Thieves, necros And mesmers, I get nerfing their condi and abilities. Those classes in wvw will kill you faster than you can blink. But why are they nerfing Ranger/Soulbeast ? Throughout the thread, multiple people have noted that they are essentially *resetting* every class to one extent or another. It’s much less about nerfing a class, and much more about reducing the significant level of Power creep (which includes Defense as well) that has occurred over the past 4 - 5 years. > At times I can barely kill the NPC's ! To the haters that I'm sure will pop up after this comment, I have never played pvp in my life, (because pvp is a nasty bit of work that I can't see enjoying, unless there are rewards for being a decent human. Snorts*) so should that exclude me from wvw ? No. It shouldn’t exclude you from WvW but please understand that a large part of it is PvP. I would honestly look at your build, and group with one or two others to take camps. As in PvE, the guards do things is very specific rotations. Learn them which will allow you to keep your damage up, thus killing them faster/easier. Also.... Tier 2 and Tier 3 camps can be very challenging to solo.... there is one class that will pull you all over the camp.., annoying as a young cat... > I was told that anyone was allowed to play wvw. If I can't even roam to take camps and towers in wvw, I will have nothing to do. The NA server/team, I'm on, ( I don't know what to call it because I keep getting corrected that it is a 'Mega server. Huge Eye-roll, cause yeah, it has to have a name) is so outnumbered, that I can already do very little. If you are talking to people outside of WvW they will ignorantly tell you it is megaservers. For WvW there are ‘worlds’. When you open your WvW entry screen, you will have a ‘house’ icon next to the server you are on (or are attached to because you may be a link). >When I come on, usually all of my teams stuff is being camped by either very good players, (or hackers, not sure which) trolling us at our spawn point. They don't even want to let us try to play, they just want to camp us and gloat nastily. As you know, things like this happen in most games. GW2 at least has three other borderlands and each has three exits from spawn. Usually, they will camp the most likely exit in order to get skirmishes and fights. Often, they know the people that come there are new, making their own level of fun. There are many of us that won’t do this, but a small minority will place people in a bad spot. Best thing to do is remove their fun. Go to a different exit, or a different Borderlands. >Oh and btw, I am Nothing like a thief, necro Or mesmer. I wish I also had some unfair advantage in wvw, but now, my very much NOT OP'd class is getting nerfed too. Brilliant. :angry: ****** The problem as has been pointed out further down, is many of the classes have been ramped to the point of being able to take people down in short order. Because someone isn’t good at a class, isn’t a reason to not nerf that class... Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. > > what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to > > (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) > > Listen, I get it, and the devs get it. Bashing them won’t make things better or changes go faster. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to educate yourself on what the devs have recently communicated. It was already stated that things will be messy, and this isn’t a one and done balance patch, it’s to set in motion the changes that are coming. This patch is to start off a new “paradigm”. For real, watch and absorb bc the bashing and memes aren’t helpful... @Swagger.1459 said: Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Last night got hit with a 19.9k Executioner's Scythe on 1700 toughness, I was like dayum I didn't know reapers got buffed that much! no wonder there's more roaming reapers lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. > > > > what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to > > > > (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) > > > > > > Listen, I get it, and the devs get it. Bashing them won’t make things better or changes go faster. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to educate yourself on what the devs have recently communicated. It was already stated that things will be messy, and this isn’t a one and done balance patch, it’s to set in motion the changes that are coming. This patch is to start off a new “paradigm”. For real, watch and absorb bc the bashing and memes aren’t helpful... > > @Swagger.1459 said: > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > it's not bashing them, it's speaking truth. I said nothing offensive against Anet and had previously stated that i am willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt to get the game back on track or leave if they continue to make exceptions to Toxicity. In fact; in few previous posts, i responded to posters who had evidence that in fact, exceptions will be made with Toxicity even after the patch releases. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98064/nerfing-damage-but-not-touching-evades-this-is-going-to-be-catastrophic#latest 'Refusing to consider multiple other factors (such as burst avoidance) while toning down damage is just going to make the game unfun.' 'in other words, making exceptions by not dealing with the whole problem?' sure as it seems, there will no longer be instant kills, power creep, others....is that it? will this big patch will do its best to prevent Toxicity from resurfacing again by elimination all its Toxic elements? completely preventing all unhealthy, non-competitive factors from resurfacing again? Swagger, this is the exact root cause problem i believe the community have with Anet when making any changes and you know it very well, 'they chose what matters as it seems and always leave room for other serious matters being left undone' In other words, they are not being completely honest to us by giving us the complete changes that we truly need. In the real world, that is called Deception and yet again, we find ourselves being continually being deceived all over again. It never ends and that is the problem....there's always something else left undone, incomplete and the cycle continues. What is so wrong about this is, there should not be any room left undone or incomplete because it is always the same problems, same ongoing issues that is always at fault to begin with and it clearly evident to everyone to see them. In close, we will be back on the forum having to deal with the same repetitive unresolved problems all over again. Yeah, it's the typical and will always be in the end, as always -all we are continually are asking for is Transparency- that's all --we are just tired and have had it-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. > > > > > > what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to > > > > > > (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) > > > > > > > > > > Listen, I get it, and the devs get it. Bashing them won’t make things better or changes go faster. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to educate yourself on what the devs have recently communicated. It was already stated that things will be messy, and this isn’t a one and done balance patch, it’s to set in motion the changes that are coming. This patch is to start off a new “paradigm”. For real, watch and absorb bc the bashing and memes aren’t helpful... > > > > @Swagger.1459 said: > > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > > > > > > it's not bashing them, it's speaking truth. I said nothing offensive against Anet and had previously stated that i am willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt to get the game back on track or leave if they continue to make exceptions to Toxicity. In fact; in few previous posts, i responded to posters who had evidence that in fact, exceptions will be made with Toxicity even after the patch releases. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98064/nerfing-damage-but-not-touching-evades-this-is-going-to-be-catastrophic#latest > > 'Refusing to consider multiple other factors (such as burst avoidance) while toning down damage is just going to make the game unfun.' > > 'in other words, making exceptions by not dealing with the whole problem?' > > sure as it seems, there will no longer be instant kills, power creep, others....is that it? will this big patch will do its best to prevent Toxicity from resurfacing again by elimination all its Toxic elements? completely preventing all unhealthy, non-competitive factors from resurfacing again? > > Swagger, this is the exact root cause problem i believe the community have with Anet when making any changes and you know it very well, 'they chose what matters as it seems and always leave room for other serious matters being left undone' > > In other words, they are not being completely honest to us by giving us the complete changes that we truly need. In the real world, that is called Deception and yet again, we find ourselves being continually being deceived all over again. > > It never ends and that is the problem....there's always something else left undone, incomplete and the cycle continues. What is so wrong about this is, there should not be any room left undone or incomplete because it is always the same problems, same ongoing issues that is always at fault to begin with and it clearly evident to everyone to see them. > > In close, we will be back on the forum having to deal with the same repetitive unresolved problems all over again. Yeah, it's the typical and will always be > > in the end, as always -all we are continually are asking for is Transparency- that's all > > --we are just tired and have had it-- Did you even bother to watch the video? Tell me what the devs said in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. > > > > > > > > what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to > > > > > > > > (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, I get it, and the devs get it. Bashing them won’t make things better or changes go faster. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to educate yourself on what the devs have recently communicated. It was already stated that things will be messy, and this isn’t a one and done balance patch, it’s to set in motion the changes that are coming. This patch is to start off a new “paradigm”. For real, watch and absorb bc the bashing and memes aren’t helpful... > > > > > > @Swagger.1459 said: > > > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not bashing them, it's speaking truth. I said nothing offensive against Anet and had previously stated that i am willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt to get the game back on track or leave if they continue to make exceptions to Toxicity. In fact; in few previous posts, i responded to posters who had evidence that in fact, exceptions will be made with Toxicity even after the patch releases. > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98064/nerfing-damage-but-not-touching-evades-this-is-going-to-be-catastrophic#latest > > > > 'Refusing to consider multiple other factors (such as burst avoidance) while toning down damage is just going to make the game unfun.' > > > > 'in other words, making exceptions by not dealing with the whole problem?' > > > > sure as it seems, there will no longer be instant kills, power creep, others....is that it? will this big patch will do its best to prevent Toxicity from resurfacing again by elimination all its Toxic elements? completely preventing all unhealthy, non-competitive factors from resurfacing again? > > > > Swagger, this is the exact root cause problem i believe the community have with Anet when making any changes and you know it very well, 'they chose what matters as it seems and always leave room for other serious matters being left undone' > > > > In other words, they are not being completely honest to us by giving us the complete changes that we truly need. In the real world, that is called Deception and yet again, we find ourselves being continually being deceived all over again. > > > > It never ends and that is the problem....there's always something else left undone, incomplete and the cycle continues. What is so wrong about this is, there should not be any room left undone or incomplete because it is always the same problems, same ongoing issues that is always at fault to begin with and it clearly evident to everyone to see them. > > > > In close, we will be back on the forum having to deal with the same repetitive unresolved problems all over again. Yeah, it's the typical and will always be > > > > in the end, as always -all we are continually are asking for is Transparency- that's all > > > > --we are just tired and have had it-- > > Did you even bother to watch the video? Tell me what the devs said in there? yes i did bother to watch the video and Anet once assured us that actions, not words are what we will see and that, they will give us what we want. Once again Swagger, as i said before, i am willing to give Anet the benefit of doubt to get the game back on track. All the community cares about is for Anet 'putting words into action and being transparent ' and if they can do that, than its a go.  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. > > > > > > > > > > what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to > > > > > > > > > > (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, I get it, and the devs get it. Bashing them won’t make things better or changes go faster. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to educate yourself on what the devs have recently communicated. It was already stated that things will be messy, and this isn’t a one and done balance patch, it’s to set in motion the changes that are coming. This patch is to start off a new “paradigm”. For real, watch and absorb bc the bashing and memes aren’t helpful... > > > > > > > > @Swagger.1459 said: > > > > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not bashing them, it's speaking truth. I said nothing offensive against Anet and had previously stated that i am willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt to get the game back on track or leave if they continue to make exceptions to Toxicity. In fact; in few previous posts, i responded to posters who had evidence that in fact, exceptions will be made with Toxicity even after the patch releases. > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98064/nerfing-damage-but-not-touching-evades-this-is-going-to-be-catastrophic#latest > > > > > > 'Refusing to consider multiple other factors (such as burst avoidance) while toning down damage is just going to make the game unfun.' > > > > > > 'in other words, making exceptions by not dealing with the whole problem?' > > > > > > sure as it seems, there will no longer be instant kills, power creep, others....is that it? will this big patch will do its best to prevent Toxicity from resurfacing again by elimination all its Toxic elements? completely preventing all unhealthy, non-competitive factors from resurfacing again? > > > > > > Swagger, this is the exact root cause problem i believe the community have with Anet when making any changes and you know it very well, 'they chose what matters as it seems and always leave room for other serious matters being left undone' > > > > > > In other words, they are not being completely honest to us by giving us the complete changes that we truly need. In the real world, that is called Deception and yet again, we find ourselves being continually being deceived all over again. > > > > > > It never ends and that is the problem....there's always something else left undone, incomplete and the cycle continues. What is so wrong about this is, there should not be any room left undone or incomplete because it is always the same problems, same ongoing issues that is always at fault to begin with and it clearly evident to everyone to see them. > > > > > > In close, we will be back on the forum having to deal with the same repetitive unresolved problems all over again. Yeah, it's the typical and will always be > > > > > > in the end, as always -all we are continually are asking for is Transparency- that's all > > > > > > --we are just tired and have had it-- > > > > Did you even bother to watch the video? Tell me what the devs said in there? > > yes i did bother to watch the video and Anet once assured us that actions, not words are what we will see and that, they will give us what we want. Once again Swagger, as i said before, i am willing to give Anet the benefit of doubt to get the game back on track. All the community cares about > is for Anet 'putting words into action and being transparent ' and if they can do that, than its a go. > >  > > This is the issue you are not getting... You acting like everything hinges on this one patch... “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... When most of us paid attention and are aware that it’s just the beginning and the devs acknowledge things will be messy. Thing will take time, but here you are setting unrealistic expectations about this singular patch... Again, your words “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... You will be disappointed if you think this patch is the holy grail fix to the game. It’s not, so maybe cut back with the memes, and maybe post something more constructive that possibly helps to resolve issues. And remember that certain attitudes are why the devs are very reserved, and have their own communication rules, about posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Has rezz speed be nerfed? As that is also a heal and should be lower according with the new damage, along with downed healthpool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. > > > > > > > > > > > > what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to > > > > > > > > > > > > (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, I get it, and the devs get it. Bashing them won’t make things better or changes go faster. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to educate yourself on what the devs have recently communicated. It was already stated that things will be messy, and this isn’t a one and done balance patch, it’s to set in motion the changes that are coming. This patch is to start off a new “paradigm”. For real, watch and absorb bc the bashing and memes aren’t helpful... > > > > > > > > > > @Swagger.1459 said: > > > > > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not bashing them, it's speaking truth. I said nothing offensive against Anet and had previously stated that i am willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt to get the game back on track or leave if they continue to make exceptions to Toxicity. In fact; in few previous posts, i responded to posters who had evidence that in fact, exceptions will be made with Toxicity even after the patch releases. > > > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98064/nerfing-damage-but-not-touching-evades-this-is-going-to-be-catastrophic#latest > > > > > > > > 'Refusing to consider multiple other factors (such as burst avoidance) while toning down damage is just going to make the game unfun.' > > > > > > > > 'in other words, making exceptions by not dealing with the whole problem?' > > > > > > > > sure as it seems, there will no longer be instant kills, power creep, others....is that it? will this big patch will do its best to prevent Toxicity from resurfacing again by elimination all its Toxic elements? completely preventing all unhealthy, non-competitive factors from resurfacing again? > > > > > > > > Swagger, this is the exact root cause problem i believe the community have with Anet when making any changes and you know it very well, 'they chose what matters as it seems and always leave room for other serious matters being left undone' > > > > > > > > In other words, they are not being completely honest to us by giving us the complete changes that we truly need. In the real world, that is called Deception and yet again, we find ourselves being continually being deceived all over again. > > > > > > > > It never ends and that is the problem....there's always something else left undone, incomplete and the cycle continues. What is so wrong about this is, there should not be any room left undone or incomplete because it is always the same problems, same ongoing issues that is always at fault to begin with and it clearly evident to everyone to see them. > > > > > > > > In close, we will be back on the forum having to deal with the same repetitive unresolved problems all over again. Yeah, it's the typical and will always be > > > > > > > > in the end, as always -all we are continually are asking for is Transparency- that's all > > > > > > > > --we are just tired and have had it-- > > > > > > Did you even bother to watch the video? Tell me what the devs said in there? > > > > yes i did bother to watch the video and Anet once assured us that actions, not words are what we will see and that, they will give us what we want. Once again Swagger, as i said before, i am willing to give Anet the benefit of doubt to get the game back on track. All the community cares about > > is for Anet 'putting words into action and being transparent ' and if they can do that, than its a go. > > > >  > > > > > > This is the issue you are not getting... > > You acting like everything hinges on this one patch... “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... When most of us paid attention and are aware that it’s just the beginning and the devs acknowledge things will be messy. Thing will take time, but here you are setting unrealistic expectations about this singular patch... Again, your words “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... > > You will be disappointed if you think this patch is the holy grail fix to the game. It’s not, so maybe cut back with the memes, and maybe post something more constructive that possibly helps to resolve issues. And remember that certain attitudes are why the devs are very reserved, and have their own communication rules, about posting. > that was already done 8 years ago and continuing. You act like i have not contributed anything 'constructive; which i have since than and nothing has resulted in it. You also act as if our actions affects the attitudes of devs and why they 'are reserved and have their own communication rules about posting' You got it all wrong, customers do not set rules or cultures for a company to do their job. A business is a business than customers follows. If a business is so concern about how their customers concerns will impact their attitudes, being reserved or setting their communications on their own terms, than they shouldn't be in business. Kitten we are not even the worse Toxic community compare to other far worse Toxic gaming community and you are telling me that, it is my fault (mind as well blame all of us) for the reason why Anet are the way they are....what a joke. I don't know why suddenly you are being a white knight when you've been in the game long enough as myself and others. -i can pull thousands of constructive posts and hundred of constructive pages of players pouring all their hearts to Anet to turn the game around into a healthy competitive game. Kitten, in the beginning the community wasn't even this Toxic and Anet continue to chose to ignore our concerns and allowed unresolved problems to return endlessly without having any care whatsoever to finally put an end to them; which is what we wanted all along. Years go by and we are still dealing with those problems and they have gotten worse. And you blame 'attitude and not being constructive as the reasonings'? It's been done and continually being done everyday, every hour, every minute by all players including in this thread. Also our attitude including mine hasn't change either; We Want Serious Action, We Want Healthy Competition, We Want Positive Change!! That is all i have to say because this is not you at all. As for myself, i will continue to be only Loyal to the Truth and to Actions.... that will never change -bye- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SehferViega.8725 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said: > # Warrior > Hammer > * Staggering Blow: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01 > * Backbreaker: Reduced power coefficient from 1.5 to 0.01 > * Earthshaker: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01 Hammer CC skills should keep their power coefficient, at least they should not be able to critically hit. > Shield > * Shield Bash: Reduced power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.01 Shield Bash is a CC, but it should at least hit for 0,7-1k. > Heal > * To the Limit: Reduced base heal from 9100 to 7735 This reduction is not enough: around 6500 should be better, considering Vigorous Shouts trait. > # Guardian > Longbow > * True Shot: Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 1.91. Increased cooldown from 6 seconds to 8 seconds True Shot will still be able to hit for around 9k. Too much, reduce the power coefficient more. > # Revenant > Staff > * Surge of the Mists: Reduced power coefficient per strike from 0.18 to 0.001 The actual total power coefficient (3,24) is really too much, but 0,001 is ridiculous considering that is the most important damage skill with Staff. PvP total power coefficient (1,62) will be perfect. You can remove the Knockback, considering that this skill is also an evade, but **keep the skill damage**. > # Thief > Daredevil > * Pulmonary Impact (from Impacting Disruption): Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 0.75 This trait damage as just been nerfed time ago, the actual damage is pretty fair considering that PI cannot critically hit. Revert this change. > # Necromancer > Reaper Shroud > * Infusing Terror: Reduced stability duration from 6 seconds to 3 seconds > * Executioner's Scythe: Reduced power coefficients from 2.0/2.6/3.2 to 0.01/0.015/0.02 (Above 50%/Below 50%/Below 25%). Increased stun duration from 1.5 seconds to 2.5 seconds Infusing Terror: revert this change. Reaper is really easy to interrupt, it needs stability or Reaper will never be able to uso is skills while in Reaper Shroud. Executioner's Scythe: remove the stun that is quite useless but keep the damage (tone down the damage, BUT this skill MUST make damage)!! > # Ranger >Rock Gazelle > * Charge: Reduced power coefficient from 1.1 to 0.825 Rock Gazelle's Charge power coefficient need the be toned down more. > Heal > * Troll Unguent: Increased cooldown from 25 seconds to 30 seconds This Healing skill is OP right now with High power damage. If you tone down the damage, you can't only increase cooldown by 5 seconds: it's nothing!! Reduce Duration from 8 seconds to 6 seconds will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subversiontwo.7501 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Nunya.4920" said: > > @"subversiontwo.7501" said: > > It isn't surprising that the majority of the people who complain about these changes play alot of Necros and Thieves while other people who complain are likely to play other classes that rests upon similar mechanics and styles. However, they have been spoiled by being allowed to do things for quite a long time now that they never should have been able to do. At the same time, people who are very experienced on those classes, you don't hear them complaining. They have a more sober understanding of it and know what balance implies. That doesn't mean that they can't have concerns with any changes but they won't leave (some are rather comming back because their own class/style is toned down to balance) and they adress concerns in better ways. > ****From a player who has been in wvw for months, Not years, here is how it looks to me; Thieves, necros And mesmers, I get nerfing their condi and abilities. Those classes in wvw will kill you faster than you can blink. But why are they nerfing Ranger/Soulbeast ? At times I can barely kill the NPC's ! To the haters that I'm sure will pop up after this comment, I have never played pvp in my life, (because pvp is a nasty bit of work that I can't see enjoying, unless there are rewards for being a decent human. Snorts*) so should that exclude me from wvw ? I was told that anyone was allowed to play wvw. If I can't even roam to take camps and towers in wvw, I will have nothing to do. The NA server/team, I'm on, ( I don't know what to call it because I keep getting corrected that it is a 'Mega server. Huge Eye-roll, cause yeah, it has to have a name) is so outnumbered, that I can already do very little. When I come on, usually all of my teams stuff is being camped by either very good players, (or hackers, not sure which) trolling us at our spawn point. They don't even want to let us try to play, they just want to camp us and gloat nastily. Oh and btw, I am Nothing like a thief, necro Or mesmer. I wish I also had some unfair advantage in wvw, but now, my very much NOT OP'd class is getting nerfed too. Brilliant. :angry: ****** > > Your story isn't any different from other players who play very few classes or perhaps have limited experience with the game or the mode. That's why we've had a carousel here lately of players making "Nerf class X"-threads when they are killed by a certain class. They see what happens to them but not how or why it happened. The reality is that for quite a long time now most classes in the game have had some build and ability or combination of them that has been able to take something like 2-3x the hitpoint pool of another character. They are doing these changes because burst damage is a problem overall and not something that is only limited to a class or two. The issue is that people see what other players do to them but they themselves have yet to learn how to build their own class to do the same. Ranger is also a class that is capable of stacking upwards of 300% crit modifier and just making any form of defensive gear pointless. That is also the issue they are trying to adress with this. That the time-to-kill (TTK) is low and how that impacts gameplay is one thing. However, it has also established a situation where barring some very unique mechanics among certain classes it is almost always the best option to just run bursty gear and rely on traits and abilities for defenses. That is obviously a fundamental problem with stat-allocation in the game. This is getting wordy, but let me give you an example of all of this that has been said: Yesterday I got hit for 16k damage by a Worldly Impact. My hitpoint pool was 17k. Things like this makes most people take to the forum with threads like "Worldly Impact OP", "Ranger OP" etc. However, most classes can achieve similar things. Now, there is a basis for discussion if any ability should be allowed to hit for 90% of a hitpoint pool. There will be discussions about TTK and what a build with no tank should be able to achieve against another build with no tank. However, all of that discussion is currently pointless because in the example I was running 3.5k AR and having a DR well over 50%. So that 16k damage was actually more than 32k raw damage. If you have 17k HP it doesn't matter if something hits you for 17k damage or 34k damage, dead is dead. That is why people have gravitated towards just playing burst on everything and surviving through things like invulnurabilities. That is also the reason why some of those things are adressed in the patch. I also mentioned classes with unique defensive mechanics. The Ranger is a good example there too since while the rather famous Boonbeast build has a broad use of all the boons it in reality rests upon one single trait. The trait that makes your dodges give protection. That lets the class do a number of very special things in the existing meta. It lets you double tank with both AR and a near unrippable prot modifier to actually tank in the burst meta. However that is a very unique trait. It also lets you rely on that trait alone to make sure those 32k hits become closer 16k and then spend every other point on your build on damage yourself with all those traits that lets you do that 32k raw damage. Now, every class in the game does not have the same unique mechanics that you can build something extreme around but every class in the game have some sort of extreme traits and abilities that lets you in different ways create these situations. So, to sum things up, there is a tripple-pronged reason for why this patch is needed: 1. TTK, 2. Stat exclusivity (where some stats have almost become pointless; this includes where traits trumph all the stats on your gear and your build is built around specific traits rather than stats) and 3. Extreme situations like the one we have now drive a bigger wedge between experienced and inexperienced players because, for example, if you are struggling with your Ranger it is more likely down to that you did not know how to build these things into your spec or build. It is good for an MMO that knowledge is power but right now it is leading to alot of unecessary frustrations and complaints because the difference between a good build and a bad build is so incredibly big. People confuse that with there being a big difference between classes but the reality is that they are using a subpar build of their own class against a powerful build on another class in most situations when they think that there is a class-class balance issue. The real issue here is that we have had a massive inflation of three things: Boons, Conditions and Crit-modifier traits. The issue can be seen in how 200% crit rating used to be high and now we are peaking at upwards 300%. That extra 100% mostly comes from alot of traits that affords you 100% extra from ferocity or 100% extra from other stats (like precision) that lets you funnel more stats into ferocity. The overabundance of conditions mostly comes from a powercreep put onto weapons and their abilities themselves. Anet has just added more and more effects to existing skills. The overabundance of boons mostly comes from a bunch of support classes that have been given the role of boon-bot for PvE reasons (and to some degree from boons also being added to existing abilities). So a single ability that in the past did power damage for example can now do the power damage, have a bunch of traits that makes that base value 2-3x better, also give a boon for free and give a condition for free. That's how things have crept up and that is hopefully what they are adressing now. The other stuff like how Revenant/Herald is an inherent issue in its role as a boon-bot is hopefully something that they will address later and things like that requires re-design rather than re-balance since the class obviously needs to have a useful role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, I get it, and the devs get it. Bashing them won’t make things better or changes go faster. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to educate yourself on what the devs have recently communicated. It was already stated that things will be messy, and this isn’t a one and done balance patch, it’s to set in motion the changes that are coming. This patch is to start off a new “paradigm”. For real, watch and absorb bc the bashing and memes aren’t helpful... > > > > > > > > > > > > @Swagger.1459 said: > > > > > > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not bashing them, it's speaking truth. I said nothing offensive against Anet and had previously stated that i am willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt to get the game back on track or leave if they continue to make exceptions to Toxicity. In fact; in few previous posts, i responded to posters who had evidence that in fact, exceptions will be made with Toxicity even after the patch releases. > > > > > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98064/nerfing-damage-but-not-touching-evades-this-is-going-to-be-catastrophic#latest > > > > > > > > > > 'Refusing to consider multiple other factors (such as burst avoidance) while toning down damage is just going to make the game unfun.' > > > > > > > > > > 'in other words, making exceptions by not dealing with the whole problem?' > > > > > > > > > > sure as it seems, there will no longer be instant kills, power creep, others....is that it? will this big patch will do its best to prevent Toxicity from resurfacing again by elimination all its Toxic elements? completely preventing all unhealthy, non-competitive factors from resurfacing again? > > > > > > > > > > Swagger, this is the exact root cause problem i believe the community have with Anet when making any changes and you know it very well, 'they chose what matters as it seems and always leave room for other serious matters being left undone' > > > > > > > > > > In other words, they are not being completely honest to us by giving us the complete changes that we truly need. In the real world, that is called Deception and yet again, we find ourselves being continually being deceived all over again. > > > > > > > > > > It never ends and that is the problem....there's always something else left undone, incomplete and the cycle continues. What is so wrong about this is, there should not be any room left undone or incomplete because it is always the same problems, same ongoing issues that is always at fault to begin with and it clearly evident to everyone to see them. > > > > > > > > > > In close, we will be back on the forum having to deal with the same repetitive unresolved problems all over again. Yeah, it's the typical and will always be > > > > > > > > > > in the end, as always -all we are continually are asking for is Transparency- that's all > > > > > > > > > > --we are just tired and have had it-- > > > > > > > > Did you even bother to watch the video? Tell me what the devs said in there? > > > > > > yes i did bother to watch the video and Anet once assured us that actions, not words are what we will see and that, they will give us what we want. Once again Swagger, as i said before, i am willing to give Anet the benefit of doubt to get the game back on track. All the community cares about > > > is for Anet 'putting words into action and being transparent ' and if they can do that, than its a go. > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > This is the issue you are not getting... > > > > You acting like everything hinges on this one patch... “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... When most of us paid attention and are aware that it’s just the beginning and the devs acknowledge things will be messy. Thing will take time, but here you are setting unrealistic expectations about this singular patch... Again, your words “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... > > > > You will be disappointed if you think this patch is the holy grail fix to the game. It’s not, so maybe cut back with the memes, and maybe post something more constructive that possibly helps to resolve issues. And remember that certain attitudes are why the devs are very reserved, and have their own communication rules, about posting. > > > > that was already done 8 years ago and continuing. You act like i have not contributed anything 'constructive; which i have since than and nothing has resulted in it. You also act as if our actions affects the attitudes of devs and why they 'are reserved and have their own communication rules about posting' > > You got it all wrong, customers do not set rules or cultures for a company to do their job. A business is a business than customers follows. If a business is so concern about how their customers concerns will impact their attitudes, being reserved or setting their communications on their own terms, than they shouldn't be in business. > > Kitten we are not even the worse Toxic community compare to other far worse Toxic gaming community and you are telling me that, it is my fault (mind as well blame all of us) for the reason why Anet are the way they are....what a joke. > > I don't know why suddenly you are being a white knight when you've been in the game long enough as myself and others. > > -i can pull thousands of constructive posts and hundred of constructive pages of players pouring all their hearts to Anet to turn the game around into a healthy competitive game. Kitten, in the beginning the community wasn't even this Toxic and Anet continue to chose to ignore our concerns and allowed unresolved problems to return endlessly without having any care whatsoever to finally put an end to them; which is what we wanted all along. > > Years go by and we are still dealing with those problems and they have gotten worse. And you blame 'attitude and not being constructive as the reasonings'? It's been done and continually being done everyday, every hour, every minute by all players including in this thread. Also our attitude including mine hasn't change either; We Want Serious Action, We Want Healthy Competition, We Want Positive Change!! > > That is all i have to say because this is not you at all. As for myself, i will continue to be only Loyal to the Truth and to Actions.... that will never change > > -bye- The game launched 8 years ago. That’s it. Now 8 years later they are reworking things, and this patch is only a start of a new path. Bashing the devs won’t make anything better, it will just make them communicate less, and it won’t make them work any faster. I have hundreds of threads about professions and combat, so I get how you feel, but why don’t you at least show some gratitude that they are finally doing something. Acting like this patch is a make or break of the game is misunderstood, and that’s precisely why I asked you to watch the video so you understand this is just a beginning. And remember, Anet didn’t have to go back into professions and combat like this, but they are... Right? Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnfall.9573 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, I get it, and the devs get it. Bashing them won’t make things better or changes go faster. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to educate yourself on what the devs have recently communicated. It was already stated that things will be messy, and this isn’t a one and done balance patch, it’s to set in motion the changes that are coming. This patch is to start off a new “paradigm”. For real, watch and absorb bc the bashing and memes aren’t helpful... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Swagger.1459 said: > > > > > > > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not bashing them, it's speaking truth. I said nothing offensive against Anet and had previously stated that i am willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt to get the game back on track or leave if they continue to make exceptions to Toxicity. In fact; in few previous posts, i responded to posters who had evidence that in fact, exceptions will be made with Toxicity even after the patch releases. > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98064/nerfing-damage-but-not-touching-evades-this-is-going-to-be-catastrophic#latest > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Refusing to consider multiple other factors (such as burst avoidance) while toning down damage is just going to make the game unfun.' > > > > > > > > > > > > 'in other words, making exceptions by not dealing with the whole problem?' > > > > > > > > > > > > sure as it seems, there will no longer be instant kills, power creep, others....is that it? will this big patch will do its best to prevent Toxicity from resurfacing again by elimination all its Toxic elements? completely preventing all unhealthy, non-competitive factors from resurfacing again? > > > > > > > > > > > > Swagger, this is the exact root cause problem i believe the community have with Anet when making any changes and you know it very well, 'they chose what matters as it seems and always leave room for other serious matters being left undone' > > > > > > > > > > > > In other words, they are not being completely honest to us by giving us the complete changes that we truly need. In the real world, that is called Deception and yet again, we find ourselves being continually being deceived all over again. > > > > > > > > > > > > It never ends and that is the problem....there's always something else left undone, incomplete and the cycle continues. What is so wrong about this is, there should not be any room left undone or incomplete because it is always the same problems, same ongoing issues that is always at fault to begin with and it clearly evident to everyone to see them. > > > > > > > > > > > > In close, we will be back on the forum having to deal with the same repetitive unresolved problems all over again. Yeah, it's the typical and will always be > > > > > > > > > > > > in the end, as always -all we are continually are asking for is Transparency- that's all > > > > > > > > > > > > --we are just tired and have had it-- > > > > > > > > > > Did you even bother to watch the video? Tell me what the devs said in there? > > > > > > > > yes i did bother to watch the video and Anet once assured us that actions, not words are what we will see and that, they will give us what we want. Once again Swagger, as i said before, i am willing to give Anet the benefit of doubt to get the game back on track. All the community cares about > > > > is for Anet 'putting words into action and being transparent ' and if they can do that, than its a go. > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the issue you are not getting... > > > > > > You acting like everything hinges on this one patch... “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... When most of us paid attention and are aware that it’s just the beginning and the devs acknowledge things will be messy. Thing will take time, but here you are setting unrealistic expectations about this singular patch... Again, your words “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... > > > > > > You will be disappointed if you think this patch is the holy grail fix to the game. It’s not, so maybe cut back with the memes, and maybe post something more constructive that possibly helps to resolve issues. And remember that certain attitudes are why the devs are very reserved, and have their own communication rules, about posting. > > > > > > > that was already done 8 years ago and continuing. You act like i have not contributed anything 'constructive; which i have since than and nothing has resulted in it. You also act as if our actions affects the attitudes of devs and why they 'are reserved and have their own communication rules about posting' > > > > You got it all wrong, customers do not set rules or cultures for a company to do their job. A business is a business than customers follows. If a business is so concern about how their customers concerns will impact their attitudes, being reserved or setting their communications on their own terms, than they shouldn't be in business. > > > > Kitten we are not even the worse Toxic community compare to other far worse Toxic gaming community and you are telling me that, it is my fault (mind as well blame all of us) for the reason why Anet are the way they are....what a joke. > > > > I don't know why suddenly you are being a white knight when you've been in the game long enough as myself and others. > > > > -i can pull thousands of constructive posts and hundred of constructive pages of players pouring all their hearts to Anet to turn the game around into a healthy competitive game. Kitten, in the beginning the community wasn't even this Toxic and Anet continue to chose to ignore our concerns and allowed unresolved problems to return endlessly without having any care whatsoever to finally put an end to them; which is what we wanted all along. > > > > Years go by and we are still dealing with those problems and they have gotten worse. And you blame 'attitude and not being constructive as the reasonings'? It's been done and continually being done everyday, every hour, every minute by all players including in this thread. Also our attitude including mine hasn't change either; We Want Serious Action, We Want Healthy Competition, We Want Positive Change!! > > > > That is all i have to say because this is not you at all. As for myself, i will continue to be only Loyal to the Truth and to Actions.... that will never change > > > > -bye- > > The game launched 8 years ago. That’s it. Now 8 years later they are reworking things, and this patch is only a start of a new path. Bashing the devs won’t make anything better, it will just make them communicate less, and it won’t make them work any faster. > > I have hundreds of threads about professions and combat, so I get how you feel, but why don’t you at least show some gratitude that they are finally doing something. Acting like this patch is a make or break of the game is misunderstood, and that’s precisely why I asked you to watch the video so you understand this is just a beginning. And remember, Anet didn’t have to go back into professions and combat like this, but they are... Right? Right. > > of course they didn't have to and they chose to. I congratulate them for doing so. All i am saying is, in order for us to move forward; we should use the past as a learning tool and Anet must be willing to listen to us and to work with us and most importantly, to not forget the past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Burnfall.9573" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > We get it, you’re bothered by the state of the game. Lot of us are. But the devs have to start somewhere, and this is where they have chosen. Be grateful something is starting to happen, as opposed to being ignored. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch and we will all be given the chance to chose to or not to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (we've put up with years of being ignored, we owe nothing in return) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Listen, I get it, and the devs get it. Bashing them won’t make things better or changes go faster. If you are going to criticize, at least take the time to educate yourself on what the devs have recently communicated. It was already stated that things will be messy, and this isn’t a one and done balance patch, it’s to set in motion the changes that are coming. This patch is to start off a new “paradigm”. For real, watch and absorb bc the bashing and memes aren’t helpful... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @Swagger.1459 said: > > > > > > > > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's not bashing them, it's speaking truth. I said nothing offensive against Anet and had previously stated that i am willing to give Anet the benefit of the doubt to get the game back on track or leave if they continue to make exceptions to Toxicity. In fact; in few previous posts, i responded to posters who had evidence that in fact, exceptions will be made with Toxicity even after the patch releases. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/98064/nerfing-damage-but-not-touching-evades-this-is-going-to-be-catastrophic#latest > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'Refusing to consider multiple other factors (such as burst avoidance) while toning down damage is just going to make the game unfun.' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 'in other words, making exceptions by not dealing with the whole problem?' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > sure as it seems, there will no longer be instant kills, power creep, others....is that it? will this big patch will do its best to prevent Toxicity from resurfacing again by elimination all its Toxic elements? completely preventing all unhealthy, non-competitive factors from resurfacing again? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Swagger, this is the exact root cause problem i believe the community have with Anet when making any changes and you know it very well, 'they chose what matters as it seems and always leave room for other serious matters being left undone' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In other words, they are not being completely honest to us by giving us the complete changes that we truly need. In the real world, that is called Deception and yet again, we find ourselves being continually being deceived all over again. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It never ends and that is the problem....there's always something else left undone, incomplete and the cycle continues. What is so wrong about this is, there should not be any room left undone or incomplete because it is always the same problems, same ongoing issues that is always at fault to begin with and it clearly evident to everyone to see them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In close, we will be back on the forum having to deal with the same repetitive unresolved problems all over again. Yeah, it's the typical and will always be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in the end, as always -all we are continually are asking for is Transparency- that's all > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --we are just tired and have had it-- > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you even bother to watch the video? Tell me what the devs said in there? > > > > > > > > > > yes i did bother to watch the video and Anet once assured us that actions, not words are what we will see and that, they will give us what we want. Once again Swagger, as i said before, i am willing to give Anet the benefit of doubt to get the game back on track. All the community cares about > > > > > is for Anet 'putting words into action and being transparent ' and if they can do that, than its a go. > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is the issue you are not getting... > > > > > > > > You acting like everything hinges on this one patch... “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... When most of us paid attention and are aware that it’s just the beginning and the devs acknowledge things will be messy. Thing will take time, but here you are setting unrealistic expectations about this singular patch... Again, your words “ what to be grateful will be from the results from the patch”... > > > > > > > > You will be disappointed if you think this patch is the holy grail fix to the game. It’s not, so maybe cut back with the memes, and maybe post something more constructive that possibly helps to resolve issues. And remember that certain attitudes are why the devs are very reserved, and have their own communication rules, about posting. > > > > > > > > > > that was already done 8 years ago and continuing. You act like i have not contributed anything 'constructive; which i have since than and nothing has resulted in it. You also act as if our actions affects the attitudes of devs and why they 'are reserved and have their own communication rules about posting' > > > > > > You got it all wrong, customers do not set rules or cultures for a company to do their job. A business is a business than customers follows. If a business is so concern about how their customers concerns will impact their attitudes, being reserved or setting their communications on their own terms, than they shouldn't be in business. > > > > > > Kitten we are not even the worse Toxic community compare to other far worse Toxic gaming community and you are telling me that, it is my fault (mind as well blame all of us) for the reason why Anet are the way they are....what a joke. > > > > > > I don't know why suddenly you are being a white knight when you've been in the game long enough as myself and others. > > > > > > -i can pull thousands of constructive posts and hundred of constructive pages of players pouring all their hearts to Anet to turn the game around into a healthy competitive game. Kitten, in the beginning the community wasn't even this Toxic and Anet continue to chose to ignore our concerns and allowed unresolved problems to return endlessly without having any care whatsoever to finally put an end to them; which is what we wanted all along. > > > > > > Years go by and we are still dealing with those problems and they have gotten worse. And you blame 'attitude and not being constructive as the reasonings'? It's been done and continually being done everyday, every hour, every minute by all players including in this thread. Also our attitude including mine hasn't change either; We Want Serious Action, We Want Healthy Competition, We Want Positive Change!! > > > > > > That is all i have to say because this is not you at all. As for myself, i will continue to be only Loyal to the Truth and to Actions.... that will never change > > > > > > -bye- > > > > The game launched 8 years ago. That’s it. Now 8 years later they are reworking things, and this patch is only a start of a new path. Bashing the devs won’t make anything better, it will just make them communicate less, and it won’t make them work any faster. > > > > I have hundreds of threads about professions and combat, so I get how you feel, but why don’t you at least show some gratitude that they are finally doing something. Acting like this patch is a make or break of the game is misunderstood, and that’s precisely why I asked you to watch the video so you understand this is just a beginning. And remember, Anet didn’t have to go back into professions and combat like this, but they are... Right? Right. > > > > > > of course they didn't have to and they chose to. I congratulate them for doing so. All i am saying is, in order for us to move forward; we should use the past as a learning tool and Anet must be willing to listen to us and to work with us and most importantly, to not forget the past There ya go. 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DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 > @"L A T I O N.8923" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > > > > > > > Almost feels more like a reboot than a balance patch. I'm okay with that. Sometimes if the house needs enough work, tearing it down and starting over is more efficient. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ^^ Words of wisdom folks! > > > > > > > > > > > > Problem is we're not tearing it down. Not even close. > > > > > > The designers are building atop a dilapidated old house but leaving a significant chunk of its crumbling foundation and framing, and then trying to build off that, effectively removing a lot of what is and was good in the process, while still leaving some major problems for the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > Warclaw is still here. Expansion gearsets are still here. T7 food is still massively OP and based on what basically amounts to a fetch quest dependent on elements of map completion. The DBL still has bad mechanics. Boonballing/AoE spamming is still not beatable with alternative strategies. Condi was barely affected and its burst was literally made stronger for some builds/classes, especially with the cleanse nerfs. Stuff like my off-meta yet hilariously-overpowered (in WvW) 4k+ armor condi ranger that I can already 1v2/1v3 glass burst builds with had almost no changes at all made to it, and its primary "skillset" is to mash 1. Skill expression for a lot of builds based on kit design didn't actually improve or really change much. Any given dominant build is going to just be better than the others by massive margins, but not as powerful by the numbers as today. > > > > > > > > > > > > ANet addressed one thing: TTK, which wasn't a problem AT ALL with weapon skill coefficients *EXCEPT* for elite spec weapons. We literally played for years with the same numbers lol. TTK *could* have been even lower than today at several points in the game's history. And you know what? Nobody cared, because there were only a few mechanics that caused unfair fast deaths. And none of them were based on coefficients and stats *EXCEPT* for the condi ones, because those cheese builds happened to always be brainless AF. > > > > > > > > > > > > This isn't starting anew. This is taking a "safe route" to protect elite spec relative powercreep and not make anyone in PvE upset because the strong builds/rotations aren't going to change with skill redesigns, and not make anyone in the PvP modes upset that they actually introduced design changes to kits and trait lines that desperately need it, to ensure people don't get literally outplayed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Passives are the best example here. They boosted cooldowns to 5 minutes, effectively making the traits dead traits. The mere idea of a potent passive triggered effect being unpredictable and completely throwing calculated play out of whack is not changing. Instead of addressing that issue - combat system visibility and power in passive triggered traits, they're nerfing their frequency to obscurity so they're not longer a no-skill staple in combat and just leaving them, broken mechanics attached. > > > > > > > > > > > > A huge majority of problems in the game are design-level and with boons. That's it. The patch before HoT was the best this game's ever been. Why? People were running berserker/valkyrie gear with way less health and sustain on average. People died even faster. But when you got bursted quickly, you almost always deserved it. It's just not the case now, because very little of the gameplay today as far as dealing damage is concerned is active thanks to the mechanics and higher numbers introduced with expansion content. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't just build a house on top of a crumbling foundation and the ruins of the previous home that fell apart. It doesn't matter what you do or even how good of a job you do at building another house. You need to inspect why the old one collapsed and address it directly so it doesn't happen again. > > > > > > > > > > > > So many people have spoken out as to why they quit. The pro PvP players in their last days had a huge thread directly talking about these issues shortly before they all quit and the scene disbanded explaining the same things. The thread got deleted because it was holding people accountable made by actual experts of the PvP scene. I've said my piece speaking for my guild and a few others I've been in since almost everyone just left quietly to other games. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm still here because most people want to come back. The other games aren't as good as peak GW2. But they're not going to come back with gimmicks like nerfing base power. If TTK is low because of expansion powercreep, the expansion powercreep needs nerfing/changing/removing and nothing else. > > > > > > > > > > Umm this is just the beginning. > > > > > > > > > > Cal- “This patch is unusual in that it’s more about establishing a new paradigm” > > > > > > > > > > Irenio- “We're planning many changes of this nature, as well as re-works and more.” > > > > > > > > > > You should watch from 57m on… > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > Juicy news starting at 57 minutes! Enjoy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is the beginning. It's the beginning of a lot of additional maintenance as my post implies. > > > > What I said is that they didn't hit the fundamental game-breaking aspects of the mode, and by making all these changes, they're setting themselves up for a huge amount of rework later on. > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap, and they lack any information as to how successful they're going to be, which is why I don't care what they say in a stream. They've been saying it's been a priority for years and when it comes to ideas for necessary changes, the whole "ANet's Table" meme comes to mind. The "borderlands improvements" via DBL come to mind. The reveal for alliances comes to mind. The reveal and announcements for improved infrastructure for GvG comes to mind. Fixing consumables comes to mind. Fixing lag comes to mind. Improving gameplay visibility comes to mind. And here we still are, years later, with none of those actually resolved or even substantially improved except maybe for lag (but they threw more hardware at the problems instead of fixing the cause as was mentioned in a previous dev statement: It's conditions/tick effects), and a number of them exacerbated; We still have a DBL that nobody plays or enjoys, which was only because ANet dug their heels in about needing to keep one of said maps and reverting two of the ABL's. GvG-oriented gameplay is dead thanks to class balance that people said was why it started dying in the first place, the consumable disparity is bigger than ever, the profession design keeps inflating lag, and we have two elite specs that were released which were based on non-interaction and hiding gameplay visibility. > > > > > > > > PoF launched what, like two and a half years ago? If major balance patches come three times a year, we're like 7-8 patches deep and the game's still tremendously broken. At a four to six week cadence, we're looking at between eight months and a year just to make that level of progress, and that's discounting that the warclaw and T7 food are only recent additions which are almost unanimously disliked by people who want to actually play WvW as a capture and hold mode instead of a ktrain. > > > > > > > > They could have reduced the scope by 90% and almost fixed WvW by listening to the experienced community. The choice to ignore the outlier problems nullifies everything else they're going to do irrespective of the number and severity of changes they make until those outlier problems are addressed in some capacity. > > > > > > They have to start somewhere. > > > > A puppy pooping on the floor does not deserve a treat when pooping on the floor because of the mere fact it pooped. > > > > ANet is not entitled to any of my praises because of the mere fact they're changing the game. > > Like the dog, when those changes aren't **** on the floor, I'll dole them out. > > Are you telling everyone how to do their jobs? > > Good Luck in life i guess I know you're trying to be snarky, but I'm afraid it's the other way around. I actually do have experience working in the MMO industry as a stand-in administrator, and turned down an incredible opportunity some years ago to work for them in a permanent position, but I suspected the lifespan of the game and company wouldn't be particularly long (the former was true, and the latter... well their website still works and I guess they're still making content, although their newest game is from 2007 and is severely lacking in players to pay the bills). In the real world - not even just games - customers leave on a dime. They often don't even say why, and then management is left struggling for answers on how to make the company retain profit and uphold its numbers. Often times, this comes with low pay, overtime, benefits cuts, and layoffs. ANet's had a history of doing all these if you routinely checked their glassdoor for a while (I've actually considered applying to some of their openings before but need top-notch health benefits for my college-tuition-level-expensive chronic health issues), and as you're aware, they got rid of a huge chunk of staff fairly recently. All those feedback surveys you get as spam email from a lot of companies you've ever only made a single transaction with are usually trying to create predictive models and work on their metrics to streamline analytics data to work out business longevity. Customers are important, and it's why a lot of major development and tech firms put so much money into contract procurement, and retail companies put so much money into advertisement. A significant portion of the time in the MMO market, those ads aren't to necessarily gain new players (major releases like GW2 usually get a ton of coverage to its respective niche audience when they launch), and are more of a mixed bag to also try and market incentives for existing players to look back and consider playing the game again. As far as using the petty insults as if my suggestions and feedback haven't been accurate, I've also got a pretty good track record as far as patch analysis goes, save the U/W raid. My Deadeye proposal out in 2016 discussed the possible issues that would arise if most of the design decisions were not followed, and like clockwork, most of what was taken without its tradeoffs ended up being a problem. Same thing said about my concerns for the Mirage, Soulbeast, Reaper's rework, Warrior bubble, general thief gameplay observations (garnering me a lot of criticism by fellow thieves since ever), etc. etc. I stand by the fact I speak for a lot of people with why we quit the game. Because well, that's what my friends and community members and such talk about when discussing games and when we talk about why people quit. That's what people in teamspeak and large inter-guild communities talk about. People in these circles, myself included, actually talk about wanting to come back, but not doing so because of these reasons not being addressed. I got a PM a few days ago from a friend who I thought was really, fully done with GW2 linking the announcement to the change list only a few days ago telling me to check them out, well-after I read the list myself. People are watching and waiting in earnest to come back to what is probably the best MMO ever made, and definitely the best MMO currently out there. But... every time a patch rolls out that misses the mark on problems we're looking to see addressed - specific issues like food, warclaw, BL's, gear set mathematics, core-game/expansion disparities, and so on - more people churn away from looking ever again. It may not be many, but it IS enough where over time, it matters a hell of a lot, and it reaches the "too late" stage, akin to what happened about two years ago with the game I used to work for; they launched a near-vanilla game and it flopped horrendously. Unless you have massive exposure and histories with having tons of people like Classic WoW or OSRS, it's easy for it to be too late and for most people to have just have moved on. Not to mention inter-generational competition, like a CU (if it ever releases). No, giving a detailed implementation and the processes behind how to do it is telling someone how to do their job - "Use these tools," or "Do it this way." I'm telling them upfront that I'm a pissed-off customer along with many others, why we are, and what they need to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navoe.4283 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 I may not be interpeting the info correctly ( I usually don't ) but after reading A-nets most recent Patch post doesn't it appear like Elementalist going to be pretty strong in comparison to some others ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayabusafmw.9370 Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 See you in 1 year. I don't think Anet ever listened to anything fans said. They just unplugged the game from life support for good. This post will probably get removed like 99% of the post i made since launch which were like 5 or 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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