Upcoming Necromancer changes

[Morde.3158]

Anet removing something that power necros needed to feel close to the other classes was doom! Doom is my friend friend vs spammy classes like thieves,mesmers, in fact all of the other classes are spammy compared to necro. I guess its too op for necro to be able to have counter play in shroud? what a joke. I really hope nobody is complaining about this skill I took a month break from this game and I come back only to see that its only going to be more boring thanks.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Morde.3158" said:

> Anet removing something that power necros needed to feel close to the other classes was doom! Doom is my friend friend vs spammy classes like thieves,mesmers, in fact all of the other classes are spammy compared to necro. I guess its too op for necro to be able to have counter play in shroud? what a joke. I really hope nobody is complaining about this skill I took a month break from this game and I come back only to see that its only going to be more boring thanks.

 

I got a problem with this skill as well. Was it strong? Yes

Was it overpowered and had no tell? No

 

I mean what's a bigger tell than the necro glowing dark black green?

 

But it's okayish I guess since every cc will get kinda nerfed

 

[FalsePromises.6398]

To be fully honest, not a lot of what happened to necromancer sits well with me. I heard "big ominous balance patch, 800 skills changed" and thought "oh boy, maybe they'll touch some of the weak capabilities of necromancer's weapon sets globally! Maybe scepter won't just be autoattacks and 3 for obligatory boon corrupts! Maybe axe won't be super weighted on 2 for damage with 3 as the obligatory boon corrupt! Maybe dagger will have its autoattack changed to a midrange spell so as to match the rest of its kit (referring to 2-5 of dagger skills), maybe staff will get a rework, maybe core shroud will see some touchups and get a baseline stunbreak so as to not be a ragdoll chewtoy once that initial stability wears off!" When you look at necromancer weapons, the only weapon they have where the damage isn't weighted towards one skill is greatsword, because it's good damage on every skill. That's not true of any other weapon. Scepter 2 is too slow and clunky to really be used as a pinning or outright damaging ability. Axe auto feels lackluster (maybe unless you're reaper and really make use of that vulnerability, but even then, the entire axe kit feels eclipsed by the 2 skill alone). When a necromancer uses dagger at all, majority of the time they're casting the 2-3 and running around, because they don't have the momentum to make use of the melee autoattack outside of a few situations such as a locked down enemy or cleaving downstates that won't fight back. Soul Reaping will still dominate necromancer as a second traitline choice in ANY build because of its sheer universality and complementary strength towards every line, having offensive, defensive, utility, regenerative, and other buffs in it that could VERY well be redistributed into the other lines that complement each trait choice, funneling necromancer more than discipline funnels warrior. Scourge will still be tethered to shades if they want any defensive benefits from their skills at all, and the shades, if I'm not mistaken, weren't strictly nerfed but likely still won't be able to suffice against the raw lingering damage capabilities of other classes being able to force a necromancer out of a laughably small shade. Necromancer does NOT have the capability to stand in a single spot and cast off all their stuff, against almost ANY class. Constant movement is necromancer's ONLY remedy once you get matches of high enough skill. Necromancer utilities will still be juggled around the few obligatory niche corrupts and stunbreaks. When I heard about this patch, I was expecting CHANGE. Instead, nothing changed aside from the universal damage shaving and evened out corrupt rates to match boon shaving, and then they slapped on nerfs. Foot in the grave being completely trashed? On one of the classes with the most channeled/slow casted/ramping abilities? And nerfing doom too? Doom is just about the only reverse pressure a necromancer has in shroud. Period. You can cast tainted shackles, but that torment won't scare off a brawler. Life transfer doesn't hit hard enough to make people back off like soul spiral. Dark path is worse than scepter 2 in regards to cast speed and effect traveling, and only works as a compounding ability (which doesn't mean jack if you can't land an initial lockdown to begin with). Autoattack isn't sufficient pressure. All of these, now having slow casts and being 2x as vulnerable to interrupts, and that multiplier is only that low because necromancer was already super prone to interrupts. The ONLY way I'd EVER be able to reconcile Doom being casted is if it became a ground targeted ability and gave necromancer group disruption while in shroud. Otherwise it seems absurd to give it a cast with little to no buffs to its actual effects. And this new "eternal life"? That's the most stupid thing I've seen, at the expense of one of the necromancer's strongest defensive skills. You get 20% shroud slowly returned? And it stops there? That might work, had necromancer not already had unholy martyr doing near exact same thing except with a better specific function of cleansing to it. Unholy martyr, last I checked, can cleanse 3 conditions at 7% LF each to give 21% LF back after leaving shroud. That makes eternal life absolutely useless, and on top of that? Core necromancer, foot in the grave's primary customer, already has LF generation out the wazoo. Like, woah boy, I'll be able to have 20% LF back? No, not even 20% LF back, whatever remains of the threshold below 20% LF back. One of the most laughable things necromancer has is having a full bar of shroud health but having shroud cooldown still up, and getting bonked because of it. Losing foot in the grave for that is a big slap in the face. If they REALLY wanted to up stunbreaks in order to make up for loss of stability, they should give shroud a stunbreak in its 1-5 bar too, and then I'll be 100% complacent with that change. People made fun of me for having high hopes for this patch and now I get why. Shame on me for believing balance could ever spell change.

 

Negativity aside though, this patch does seem to look good for wellomancers, given how every corrupt got nerfed except for well of corruption. On top of that, wide scale damage changes and no nerf to the well's protection trait do catch my eye. A similar concern of that is that the weakness nerfs will no longer give necromancer and other classes any upper hand against dodge roll based classes or any similar styles. My hope though is that with condition nerfs and corrupt nerfs, cleanses would see similar adjustments, but I don't have a full feel for the entirety of this patch yet, so I won't press that.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> Yeah. Necro dagger way too stronk.

> Everyone using it.

> Autoattacking people to death.

>

> Tbh. That's maybe the only weapon they could have left untouched and still would only very rarely have seen any play...

 

What made laugh more is that they managed to nerf staff AA.

 

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> I got a problem with this skill as well. Was it strong? Yes

> Was it overpowered and had no tell? No

>

> I mean what's a bigger tell than the necro glowing dark black green?

>

> But it's okayish I guess since every cc will get kinda nerfed

>

 

It's OK... They could have made it a slow moving pojectile that don't proc projectiles combo on top of the cast time...

[Anchoku.8142]

Anyone know anything about Soul Marks?

 

Unblockable's change to stacking intensity has me wondering about it.

 

Specifically, is unblockable a per-hit or a % based calculation?

[FalsePromises.6398]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Anyone know anything about Soul Marks?

>

> Unblockable's change to stacking intensity has me wondering about it.

>

> Specifically, is unblockable a per-hit or a % based calculation?

 

Soul marks are traited for the attacks themselves to be unblockable, not for them to grant unblockable buff, therefore no change to them. They'll still be unblockable like dragonhunter spear of justice or mesmer mirror blade.

[Xaffire.5861]

My biggest Issue is that signet of undeath was changed. Sacrificing nearly 50% hp to revive 1 downed player is a setback for me. I mainly use the signet for the passive ability but when in a party or whatnot not being able to revive 3 party members anymore is a huge blow. And now they want to change it again. Anet is quickly becoming like blizzard nerfing professions because some people can’t handle one profession being stronger than another ie: War/Star Craft.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Xaffire.5861" said:

> My biggest Issue is that signet of undeath was changed. Sacrificing nearly 50% hp to revive 1 downed player is a setback for me. I mainly use the signet for the passive ability but when in a party or whatnot not being able to revive 3 party members anymore is a huge blow. And now they want to change it again. Anet is quickly becoming like blizzard nerfing professions because some people can’t handle one profession being stronger than another ie: War/Star Craft.

I can't find any signet of undeath changes in the patch notes.

 

Traited signet of undeath and the eternal life trait will grant necros a huge amount of life force generation.

 

Such a setup will grant 20% + (3 x 6%) = 38% of life force during the 10 seconds shroud cooldown without the need to do anything. Since it's quite a no brainer to slot signet of vampirism too in that setup, you get a ton of health regeneration on top.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

hmm gets me thinking how my signet build will be post patch. still bad probs but hey.

[Morde.3158]

I cant see the point of reducing scale of all skills across the board the base damage is still the same everyone will do less damage but the skills that hit like a truck will still hit like a truck compared to others. Just play the game so you can see what needs to be changed and stop changing and nerfing things that don't need to be changed

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

> @"Morde.3158" said:

> I cant see the point of reducing scale of all skills across the board the base damage is still the same everyone will do less damage but the skills that hit like a truck will still hit like a truck compared to others. Just play the game so you can see what needs to be changed and stop changing and nerfing things that don't need to be changed

 

"Base damage" doesn't exist in GW2 aside from life siphon effects. Well, condition damage as well.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Morde.3158" said:

> I cant see the point of reducing scale of all skills across the board.

 

The whole patch is aimed at increasing the time to kill in sPvP/WvW, without hurting to much the "leading image" that the devs have of each profession (Even if at this point the necromancer's image trait are a bit exagerated). Expect peoples to complain about bunkers and pets (minions, turret, pet... etc.) after the patch. Bunkers is self explaining, pets come from the fact that they indirectly get a huge boost in survivability from the lowered damage, making them usable. PvP players will hate this patch, bunkers and AI, what a joke!

 

In PvE, the elementalist is pushed back toward it's dps spot, Engineer stay in it's drought, Guardian and Mesmer gain a bit more build options, Necromancer gain an unexpected QoL for JP, Ranger gain a bit more flexibility for it's dps builds (condi and power), Revenant is reworked again (The profession is still stuck in Beta), Thief got it's random bundle buffed (won't change much to what it does in PvE) and Warrior get some Qol on unused weapons.

[Anchoku.8142]

I am pretty sure now that the patch preview notes are highlights and examples rather than being complete.

 

I was also reassured the unblockable stacks will _not_ stack in intensity but stack in the number of strikes that are unblockable.

[Xenic.1387]

I think everyone just needs to relax and let the meta unfold. I think that they are making this HUGE change to shake up things and setup more class reworks. You'll probably see a major rework on some classes (mirage for example) and minor reworks on others. I don't expect huge changes to Necro but I do expect changes down the road (aside from the mega super duper insane over 90000000 patch due at the end of the month).

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Xenic.1387" said:

> I think everyone just needs to relax and let the meta unfold. I think that they are making this HUGE change to shake up things and setup more class reworks. You'll probably see a major rework on some classes (mirage for example) and minor reworks on others. I don't expect huge changes to Necro but I do expect changes down the road (aside from the mega super duper insane over 90000000 patch due at the end of the month).

 

So you're already looking for the 2nd quarter balance patch... Do you expect it to fix some of the actual design issues of the game or will it be another numbers tweak fiesta? I'm beting on the later since that's what ANet does.

[Xenic.1387]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Xenic.1387" said:

> > I think everyone just needs to relax and let the meta unfold. I think that they are making this HUGE change to shake up things and setup more class reworks. You'll probably see a major rework on some classes (mirage for example) and minor reworks on others. I don't expect huge changes to Necro but I do expect changes down the road (aside from the mega super duper insane over 90000000 patch due at the end of the month).

>

> So you're already looking for the 2nd quarter balance patch... Do you expect it to fix some of the actual design issues of the game or will it be another numbers tweak fiesta? I'm beting on the later since that's what ANet does.

 

No, I'm honestly fine with the changes that are coming next month. I mean I'll adapt and do my thing and have fun no matter what happens. My point is that big picture wise, I believe this is essentially the first step in what is almost a 're-launch' of the game. I think they are tackling PVP side first, then the PVE side second.

 

If I had to guess you'll see some, if not all, classes get number tweaks for the first 4-6 weeks then you'll start seeing the bigger changes to some classes (trait and skill changes, weapon changes, etc.). I don't expect them to do a total class change like convert Core Necro to be a 'Main Tank' type of change, but it wouldn't shock me if they changed the minion skill line up at all.

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

Dmg reduction is fine and corruption too(if and only if we see a real decline of boon spam, otherwise you'll see even more boonspam without anything keeping it in check).

Now here are the things I really do not understand:

- Executioners Scythe: why remove the dmg component when it's clear it was meanth as killer hit since even its dmg scales with the percentage of enemy's health. In my opinion you should remove the cc and keep the dmg, not do the opposite.

- Spectral walk and armor didn't deserve a nerf since you already removed a key component for core necro survivability (foot in the grave). You now force any necromancer to basically run with always 2 or 3 breakstuns, not to talk about the fact that the breakstun on entering shroud, actually grants the ability to instantly react to a cc lock down.

- Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.

- Infusing Terror: really you nerf stability on reaper shroud which needs it to stay in melee without being cc locked? Reduce it to 2 stacks instead of 3 but keep the duration. Because stab on reaper shroud is crucial, to be able to cast something that it is not autoattack since every skill has a 1.25s cast time or more. You expect a melee shroud mode with long cast times to actually be usefull without the ability to cast its slow abilities without any protection vs CCs?

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> I am pretty sure now that the patch preview notes are highlights and examples rather than being complete.

>

> I was also reassured the unblockable stacks will _not_ stack in intensity but stack in the number of strikes that are unblockable.

 

Which is an insane nerf for wvw reapers

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > I am pretty sure now that the patch preview notes are highlights and examples rather than being complete.

> >

> > I was also reassured the unblockable stacks will _not_ stack in intensity but stack in the number of strikes that are unblockable.

>

> Which is an insane nerf for wvw reapers

 

Agree Reaper could see a huge nerf if it does not get enough stacks of unblockable; channeling and pulsing skills, too. Ghastly Claws, Life Siphon, Locust Swarm - these might all burn through stacks of unblockable and end up blocked well before the skills complete if the unblockable stack is not exclusive to the originating skill.

[Sigmoid.7082]

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> - Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.

 

Most of the complaint really were about it being instant. It had limited counterplay with no cast time. Also considering damage has gone down a lot, ~30% across the board + additional being lost from might generation/upkeep + more from vulnerability stack generaltion/duration, shroud has a lot more value than before.

 

 

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > - Doom: the usefull part of this ability was the fact it was instant, most of all a lot of people complain about the fear duration not the fact it was instant. Infact doom being instant is crucial to actually try to stop a burst while in core shroud.

>

> Most of the complaint really were about it being instant. It had limited counterplay with no cast time. Also considering damage has gone down a lot, ~30% across the board + additional being lost from might generation/upkeep + more from vulnerability stack generaltion/duration, shroud has a lot more value than before.

>

>

>

 

Well limited counterplay isn't really true.

 

Fear can be countered by:

- stability

- stunbreaks

- resistance

- condicleanses (mostly from teammates)

 

While two of these options can be used before the fear is applied, the other two are reactions on the fear.

That's more counterplay than any other condition as well as more counterplay than any power skill has.

 

A lot of power skills can be precast and combined with a teleport to do instant unavoidable damage (because most teleports don't need LoS)

 

I do understand that nerf though.

 

But keep in mind, that there's still stealth attacks in the game, that have absolutely no counterplay other than randomly dodge, be lucky with a reveal (not every spec has one) or use an invulnerability (spoiler: not every class has one)

Also not every class can afford to randomly dodge to maybe avoid a stealth attack or random teleport + instant dmg from someone that was hiding behind some wall.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> Such a setup will grant 20% + (3 x 6%) = 38% of life force during the 10 seconds shroud cooldown without the need to do anything. Since it's quite a no brainer to slot signet of vampirism too in that setup, you get a ton of health regeneration on top.

 

Not sure where you got these 20% LF in 10 seconds. Absolutely nothing is said about the rate at which the trait will bring you back to 20%. For all we know, the LF recovery could also be an out of combat feature (which wouldn't be surprising) and the necromancer isn't really great at getting out of combat.

 

All in all, there is not enough data to make these numbers of yours realist. Remember when people were saying that the health cost of SoU would be way lower than what it is with great argument to support their guess, your doing the same here. It's better to assume the worse and the worse is that the recovery is an out of combat feature only or have an horribly slow rate of recovery that's even slower in combat.

 

> @"Xenic.1387" said:

> No, I'm honestly fine with the changes that are coming next month. I mean I'll adapt and do my thing and have fun no matter what happens. My point is that big picture wise, I believe this is essentially the first step in what is almost a 're-launch' of the game. I think they are tackling PVP side first, then the PVE side second.

 

I've already said it to another player, but nothing here show in any way that ANet have the slightest concern for PvE balance. From all we can see there isn't even a PvE balance team since only sPvP and WvW balance teams are "vocal". The reality is that ANet just lowered the damage and sustain in sPvP and WvW, they almost didn't touch the true powercreep, they tried to adapt the core of the game to the powercreep. The fact is that a lot of the coefficients that have been lowered had remained untouched since launch. For all we know, for them PvE stand in a good place and don't need any big tweaks.

[Anchoku.8142]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"KrHome.1920" said:

> From all we can see there isn't even a PvE balance team since only sPvP and WvW balance teams are "vocal".

 

Arenanet said last fall that there would be 3 balance teams; one for each game mode. This may have changed since then. The PvP changes are extensive and the teams might have many of the same members.

 

The one thing that seems clear is that the hardest split between game modes we have ever seen is coming.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> Arenanet said last fall that there would be 3 balance teams; one for each game mode. This may have changed since then. The PvP changes are extensive and the teams might have many of the same members.

>

> The one thing that seems clear is that the hardest split between game modes we have ever seen is coming.

 

I stand on my position, the PvE balance team never manifested itself on the forum since the announcement (and from what I've seen, they didn't do much to improve PvE balance either). That said, at the very least, sPvP and WvW players won't be able to complains that their gameplay was ruined due to PvE balance change.

[Morde.3158]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> > @"Morde.3158" said:

> > I cant see the point of reducing scale of all skills across the board the base damage is still the same everyone will do less damage but the skills that hit like a truck will still hit like a truck compared to others. Just play the game so you can see what needs to be changed and stop changing and nerfing things that don't need to be changed

>

> "Base damage" doesn't exist in GW2 aside from life siphon effects. Well, condition damage as well.

 

ok what? lol