Thinking about the future of DH in PvP

[mes.4607]

I've been thinking about how the damage nerfs will affect us. Not really worried about the nerfs to our sustain skills. True shot damage was nerfed by ~30%. It also had a CD increase. If we ran Big Game Hunter, all skills would do 20% more dmg to our target for 8 seconds. Unfortunately d. shot lost its damage component. We could potentially run Hunter's Fortification for extra condition hate. Smite Condition will remove 3 conditions. I feel like it will be hard to stack condis on DH. We have too many cleanses, especially if you run cleansing sigils on both weapon sets. IF I drop Hunter's Determination, I would probably go with Zealot's aggression. Hunter's Determination will be on roughly a 4 minute CD, which is crazy to me. We NEED stability from somewhere though. I highly doubt I will want to run Heavy Light post patch. We may need to run the new Retaliatory Subconscious just for aegis when CC'ed. The removed aegis will grant protection for 1 second because of the valor minor trait. IDK. Just thoughts

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I think it will be good cuz I think core teef, nec, and mes will be good.

[Crackmonster.2790]

What in the world would make you think mes will be good? :D They are full gutting mirage with extremely savaga nerfs far beyond that of other classes, and chrono already not good for competitive leaving only core mes.

[otto.5684]

I think DH will be fairly strong due to a couple of reasons:

 

Compared to most classes DH healing is barely touched. Purification lost a bit of healing, but far cry from that 33% nerf. VoR was not touched. Reg intensity and duration did not change. Monk's focus lost ~25% of its healing. Combined, this like 10% healing loss, while everyone else is around 30-40%. And DH on live is fairly survivable. They will probably become extremely tank.

 

The smite buff (yes it is a buff) makes DH susceptibility to condis very weak. An area which Guardian as a whole already excels in.

 

In terms of boons access, ToF protection reduced to 2 sec, but most other DH usable boon sources have not changed. Again, an area which DH got off light compared to most classes. I can stack somewhere around 50% protection uptime on live with ToF, shield, valor and traveler runes. A bit less with next patch, but considering how much damage went down, I do not think it will be an issue.

 

In terms of damage multipliers, on live, I use Zelot's aggression. I think it is the best option for DH major mater traits. Will most definitely be so with next patch. No one is going to use the 5 minute garbage Hunters Determination. With the way things going it is going to be big game hunter for grand master. There is a buff from virtues on using a virtue. I suspect it will be ~5 secs and at least 10%. All you need is to land SoJ (not the pull) and we are talking ~40% extra damage. On live things do not work that way, cuz you need heavy light. But heavy light will a dumpster fire, so is LB..

 

LB will be 100% useless. The whole reason LB currently exist is DS. With it being so fucking slow and 0 damage, this weapon is absolutely unusable.

 

DH will probably be exclusively melee, running DH/valor/virtues, GS/sword and shield. Purification, CoP, smite, ToF (or JI) and RI. Traveler or lynx runes. Highly survivable, while trying to spike enemy by stacking damage multipliers in short phases.

[Arken.3725]

I'm hoping the new trait that gives a dmg bonus is permanent while the virtue is on cd, but that's just me.

[mes.4607]

Are you guys really going to drop Absolute Resolution trait? I don't think I'll drop longbow. Worst case, I'll go scepter/focus instead

[mes.4607]

Does heavy light granting stability even make sense? I just knocked back enemies... and for a short 3 seconds I have stab. If it doesn't have an ICD it may be good.

[otto.5684]

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> Does heavy light granting stability even make sense? I just knocked back enemies... and for a short 3 seconds I have stab. If it doesn't have an ICD it may be good.

 

Heavy light granting stability never made any sense. It is not meant to make sense. It was random survivability buff. Honestly, unless this dumpster Fire of balance idiocy with DS changes (highly unlikely), LB will not be PvP viable. It’s damage is going to be none existent.

[mes.4607]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > Does heavy light granting stability even make sense? I just knocked back enemies... and for a short 3 seconds I have stab. If it doesn't have an ICD it may be good.

>

> Heavy light granting stability never made any sense. It is not meant to make sense. It was random survivability buff. Honestly, unless this dumpster Fire of balance idiocy with DS changes (highly unlikely), LB will not be PvP viable. It’s damage is going to be none existent.

 

I wish a successful knockback gave protection or regen :v. I think lb 3 is still needed for good synergy with ToF

[mes.4607]

The new Heavy Light may actually be good. I just realized it's meant to synergize with Test of Faith. It grants stability and a damage increase. If it has no ICD it may be very good

[otto.5684]

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> The new Heavy Light may actually be good. I just realized it's meant to synergize with Test of Faith. It grants stability and a damage increase. If it has no ICD it may be very good

 

Unless the damage is 25% or more, big game hunter will be superior in almost every situation. The no ICD seems cool, but outside of axe (not accessible with DH) guardian PvP CC access is crap. With DS being 100% dead, I won’t use this for just pull and shield 5.

[mes.4607]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > The new Heavy Light may actually be good. I just realized it's meant to synergize with Test of Faith. It grants stability and a damage increase. If it has no ICD it may be very good

>

> Unless the damage is 25% or more, big game hunter will be superior in almost every situation. The no ICD seems cool, but outside of axe (not accessible with DH) guardian PvP CC access is kitten. With DS being 100% dead, I won’t use this for just pull and shield 5.

 

There's a major issue with BGH in PvP... You more often than not need to use the pull mechanic of Spear of Justice. As soon as you do, the damage buff is gone

[otto.5684]

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > > The new Heavy Light may actually be good. I just realized it's meant to synergize with Test of Faith. It grants stability and a damage increase. If it has no ICD it may be very good

> >

> > Unless the damage is 25% or more, big game hunter will be superior in almost every situation. The no ICD seems cool, but outside of axe (not accessible with DH) guardian PvP CC access is kitten. With DS being 100% dead, I won’t use this for just pull and shield 5.

>

> There's a major issue with BGH in PvP... You more often than not need to use the pull mechanic of Spear of Justice. As soon as you do, the damage buff is gone

 

That probably would change. I play mostly DH medi trapper now (cuz I am not big fan of FB). Do I use the pull? Of course, but the only reason I take heavy light is for the CC on DS. And the pull to ToF then DS + TS combo is over rated. It does not deal that much damage anymore, and most skilled players will counter anyway. I have to really exhaust enemies for a while before the pull is remotely threatening. And ToF is also much better served for kiting and area control, most of the time, than pulling enemy for dps.

 

With DS becoming obsolete and TS becoming 8 sec, I do not see LB seeing any play in sPvP. If you are playing melee, the pull, combo is not worth much, most of the time. Might as well go with BGH for more consistent damage, especially that there is going to be a new trait in virtues that adds damage when casting a virtue.

 

This is obliviously speculation. I expected core guardian will be better in sPvP after the zeal/radiance rearrangement last year. When it went live, I was dead wrong.