Throw Mine game breaking skill.

[Arctisavange.7261]

After patch:

 

Gadget. Throw out a remote-controlled land mine that damages, knocks back, and removes a boon from nearby foes.

 

Damage: 532 (0.01)?

Boons Removed: 3

Knockback: 300

Number of Targets: 5

Explosion Radius: 240

Proximity Radius: 120

Explosion

Combo Finisher: Blast

Range: 900

Unblockable

 

Choose this traitline with throw mine:

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gadgeteer

 

In total with throw mine and F2 spam right now you can remove 8 boons per 14 seconds on 5 targets. After patch it will be 24 boons per 14 seconds on 5 targets. So in total if you manage to land it properly, thats 120 boons removed per 14 seconds.

 

Perish also made a video yesterday that i noticed explaining and visually showing the current boon removal on the skills at work and a estimation what it will look like once it gets buffed after patch.

 

 

@"ArenaNet Team.4819"

[bluberblasen.9684]

Please Cal - rewatch this skill and rethink about it.

Thank You!

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

f2 only removes 1 boon. so with the new patch it will remove 7 boons from 1 target assuming they are standing on all the mines perfectly.

[Arctisavange.7261]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> f2 only removes 1 boon. so with the new patch it will remove 7 boons from 1 target assuming they are standing on all the mines perfectly.

 

Youre forgetting that those skills have AoE so its not as simple/avoidable as you believe it is. The video is also of 1 player playing 1 scrapper as a demonstration. Now add more scrapper players with the knowledge of how many boons can be ripped and youre bound to have those boons removed in blob fights.

 

Keep also in mind that F2 he used is only usable in melee range but the main skill "Throw mine" has a 900 ranged distance casting ability, which is unblockable and it also adds a heavy knockback.

[phirefox.2568]

> @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> In total with throw mine and F2 spam right now you can remove 8 boons per 14 seconds on 5 targets.

 

It's 7 to 8 boons, not 8. Two boons ripped by the large Mines produced by **Throw Mine** (the _Utility_ Skill) plus one boon ripped for each smaller Mine produced by **Mine Field** (the _Toolbelt_ skill). The reason why he got 8 boons removed is solely due to the way the Utility-Mine's explosion is handled by the game: The Damage and Knockback effect is applied first, thus removing the single stack of Stability on the Golem before it's Boon-removal aspect even comes into play. If the Golem had more Stacks of Stability (as it would be the case in Zergs), this would rarely happen.

Realistically speaking, it's also quite difficult to strip 5 boons from the same foe using **Mine Field**. Each mine has a small effective radius of _180_, and they seem to be randomly distributed around the caster with a radius of about **r** ∈ **[0,180)**. Basically, the only way to surely hit all 5 of them would be to lure your opponent onto the casting-spot before detonating them, otherwise the random distribution would mess up your plans real fast. It's easy to do on single stationary targets (like open world PvE NPCs) but much more difficult with moving targets. As a result, even slight deviations in the positioning of your opponents will make sure that you can forget about hitting all 5 Toolbelt-Mines on multiple targets. If you somehow manage to do so anyway, the player-area density required for this would probably be enough to create a black hole, destroying all of Tyria in the process...

That being said, the Mines created by **Mine Field** _can be blocked anyway_ - only the Utility Mines are unblockable :)

> After patch it will be 24 boons per 14 seconds on 5 targets. So in total if you manage to land it properly, thats 120 boons removed per 14 seconds.

Alright, let's see what a-net said about it:

> **Throw Mine:** Reduced power coefficient from 2.0 to 0.01. Increased boons removed from 1 to 3

> **Mine Field** (Throw Mine Toolbelt): Reduced power coefficient per mine from 0.77 to 0.5

True, apparently they will increase the boon removal on the Utility, but I can't see any indicator of them touching the mines produced by it's Toolbelt counterpart. If they did, they would have written it as part of the Mine Field changes - at least that's what I assume.

 

 

[Arctisavange.7261]

You would be surprised how many times anet hasnt written the extra effects in patch notes and thats the main reason im panicking as it has been a very common thing for anet to not write the "side effects" which often times have taken place.*

 

From wiki: "Stability stacks in intensity up to 25 times, and each incoming control effect removes a stack. In contrast, boon removal skills (boon strip/boon steal/boon corrupt) void all stacks of stability at once. "

 

Keep also in mind he did the boon removal on a target that had 12 boons, something that players in blobs usually dont have. Meaning stabilty is bound to get into the removal, regardless if knockback hits stability first or not.

 

This game also rewards stacked gameplay so the small radius is not a issue for anyone. Keep also in mind that theres a huge difference in between 1 engineer playing with these skills, over 5+ more engineers using those skills

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > f2 only removes 1 boon. so with the new patch it will remove 7 boons from 1 target assuming they are standing on all the mines perfectly.

>

> Youre forgetting that those skills have AoE so its not as simple/avoidable as you believe it is. The video is also of 1 player playing 1 scrapper as a demonstration. Now add more scrapper players with the knowledge of how many boons can be ripped and youre bound to have those boons removed in blob fights.

>

> Keep also in mind that F2 he used is only usable in melee range but the main skill "Throw mine" has a 900 ranged distance casting ability, which is unblockable and it also adds a heavy knockback.

 

f2 mines have miniscule radius so realistically you will usually get 1 hit, maybe 2 hits, or 3 if lucky. its not possible to get all 5 hits. regardless they still remove 1 boon per hit when hitting multiple people, but will remove more when hitting 1 person. the description is unclear and the skill is janky.

[Arctisavange.7261]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > f2 only removes 1 boon. so with the new patch it will remove 7 boons from 1 target assuming they are standing on all the mines perfectly.

> >

> > Youre forgetting that those skills have AoE so its not as simple/avoidable as you believe it is. The video is also of 1 player playing 1 scrapper as a demonstration. Now add more scrapper players with the knowledge of how many boons can be ripped and youre bound to have those boons removed in blob fights.

> >

> > Keep also in mind that F2 he used is only usable in melee range but the main skill "Throw mine" has a 900 ranged distance casting ability, which is unblockable and it also adds a heavy knockback.

>

> f2 mines have miniscule radius so realistically you will usually get 1 hit, maybe 2 hits, or 3 if lucky. its not possible to get all 5 hits. regardless they still remove 1 boon per hit when hitting multiple people, but will remove more when hitting 1 person. the description is unclear and the skill is janky.

 

Now multiply all the boon removal times 3 and will you still think this is balanced? Even as a 1 engineer if you can remove 60 boons with throw mine and F2, that is still pretty broken (120 boon removal being the maximum potential).

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> Now multiply all the boon removal times 3 and will you still think this is balanced? Even as a 1 engineer if you can remove 60 boons with throw mine and F2, that is still pretty broken (120 boon removal being the maximum potential).

 

those numbers are meaningless, the only one that matters is per person. 7 per person is ridiculous and hopefully they read this thread and reconsider. your math is still wrong, its 35 boons from 5 people.

[phirefox.2568]

> @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> Keep also in mind that F2 he used is only usable in melee range but the main skill "Throw mine" has a 900 ranged distance casting ability, which is unblockable and it also adds a heavy knockback.

Small Sidenote: The mine travels slowly enough to be reacted to, meaning you can dodge just before it hits the ground near/on your position, thus preventing being boon-stripped by it. The angle is very flat, too, so it doesn't get far in uneven terrain. Other than that, keep in mind that you will only ever get attacked by one mine on range per engineer, since the Trait-related second mine is spawned under the caster - and cannot be manually detonated after the thrown mine was triggered (the skill resets from Detonate back to Throw Mine when that happens).

 

> @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> You would be surprised how many times anet hasnt written the extra effects in patch notes and thats the main reason im panicking as it has been a very common thing for anet to not write the "side effects" which often times have taken place.*

 

True, unfortunately :anguished: Even Throw Mine is a good example - the unblockable skill fact is only displayed on the throwing skill, and not on **Detonate** where it belongs, so a player might assume that it is the mine-as-thrown-projectile that is unblockable (and thus can't get destroyed by blocks mid-air) instead of the explosion...

 

> From wiki: "Stability stacks in intensity up to 25 times, and each incoming control effect removes a stack. In contrast, boon removal skills (boon strip/boon steal/boon corrupt) void all stacks of stability at once. "

 

It wouldn't change the number though. If the foe has one stack of stability (or two if traited - i'm not sure if the game handles the explosions sequentially or phase-wise-parallel when detonated manually, which would determine the 1 or 2 stack threshold in this case), the knockback removes it first, allowing the mine to additionally rip another boon instead (resulting in 2 removals by the U-Mine in case of 1-stack-Stability and another boon). If there is more than one stack of stability, the knockback will first reduce the stack by one (leaving stability), and the boonstrip will then continue to strip a random boon (which could be stability), thus resulting in the U-Mine "just" removing a single boon :)

 

> Keep also in mind he did the boon removal on a target that had 12 boons, something that players in blobs usually don't have. Meaning stability is bound to get into the removal.

Yes, if everything hits, it would be quite strong. But unless a-net **really** meant to increase the number of boonstrips even on the secondary mines (which would be bonkers), I doubt that the mine kit will see any more use than it does now. I barely see anyone using the Tools Traitline (most seem to run Scrapper with Inventions and Alchemy as Medics), and the buff (if it works like I suspect it will) would just add another two (or four, when you sacrifice your support for the Tools line) boonstrips. If I assume that on average 2 secondary mines hit their targets successfully (which seems like a realistic guess to me), you would end up with 5-8 boons stripped on the intended target by using both the Utility and it's toolbelt skill. However, unlike AoE boonstrips covering a larger area, you can (if timed right) completely evade the whole setup by dodging into it - a single well timed dodge should trigger all of the mines while avoiding the boonstrip, if I recall that right.

 

[Thiago.5946]

is a enginer Banish Enchantment now

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"phirefox.2568" said:

> a single well timed dodge should trigger all of the mines while avoiding the boonstrip, if I recall that right.

 

everything on the throw mine skill is remote detonated.

 

[ArchonWing.9480]

And then someone reflects it.

 

Yay teamkilling is finally here!

[Zexanima.7851]

Dont take my throw mine. D:

[The Cutlass.3041]

Imagine making this post and being so awful at math that you do _this _poorly. Mine field is, at most, 5 boons removed every 14.45s. Throw mine, when traited, will removed up to 30 (3 boons for 5 targets at each of the 2 mines) boons every 12s. I don't know how you possibly got to 120 boons every 14 seconds but you should probably actually read the skill tool tips before making a post.

[GDchiaScrub.3241]

> @"The Cutlass.3041" said:

> Imagine making this post and being so awful at math that you do _this _poorly. Mine field is, at most, 5 boons removed every 14.45s. Throw mine, when traited, will removed up to 30 (3 boons for 5 targets at each of the 2 mines) boons every 12s. I don't know how you possibly got to 120 boons every 14 seconds but you should probably actually read the skill tool tips before making a post.

 

It'll be dope with sigil of absorption for memes. Already was funny in it's current iteration with that sigil.

 

D:

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"GDchiaScrub.3241" said:

> It'll be dope with sigil of absorption for memes. Already was funny in it's current iteration with that sigil.

>

> D:

 

oh god lol. I can't.

[Slick.7164]

guardian needs a magic absorption meme and grenade like a mohawk be awesome

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

Yeah taking Perish seriously about anything let alone a class he doesnt know jack shit about... gj. Anyways the f2 placement is random, the radius is 180 per mine if walked on. Any1 who actually plays engineer has already considered this skill in wvw and come to the conclusion that its not game breaking whatsoever.

[claytonmorby.3751]

> @"Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365" said:

> Yeah taking Perish seriously about anything let alone a class he doesnt know jack kitten about... gj. Anyways the f2 placement is random, the radius is 180 per mine if walked on. Any1 who actually plays engineer has already considered this skill in wvw and come to the conclusion that its not game breaking whatsoever.

 

Every engineer I've talked to is taking this now in WvW because its ridiculously strong AoE boonrip.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"phirefox.2568" said:

> > @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> > Keep also in mind that F2 he used is only usable in melee range but the main skill "Throw mine" has a 900 ranged distance casting ability, which is unblockable and it also adds a heavy knockback.

> Small Sidenote: The mine travels slowly enough to be reacted to, meaning you can dodge just before it hits the ground near/on your position, thus preventing being boon-stripped by it. The angle is very flat, too, so it doesn't get far in uneven terrain. Other than that, keep in mind that you will only ever get attacked by one mine on range per engineer, since the Trait-related second mine is spawned under the caster - and cannot be manually detonated after the thrown mine was triggered (the skill resets from Detonate back to Throw Mine when that happens).

>

> > @"Arctisavange.7261" said:

> > You would be surprised how many times anet hasnt written the extra effects in patch notes and thats the main reason im panicking as it has been a very common thing for anet to not write the "side effects" which often times have taken place.*

>

> True, unfortunately :anguished: Even Throw Mine is a good example - the unblockable skill fact is only displayed on the throwing skill, and not on **Detonate** where it belongs, so a player might assume that it is the mine-as-thrown-projectile that is unblockable (and thus can't get destroyed by blocks mid-air) instead of the explosion...

>

> > From wiki: "Stability stacks in intensity up to 25 times, and each incoming control effect removes a stack. In contrast, boon removal skills (boon strip/boon steal/boon corrupt) void all stacks of stability at once. "

>

> It wouldn't change the number though. If the foe has one stack of stability (or two if traited - i'm not sure if the game handles the explosions sequentially or phase-wise-parallel when detonated manually, which would determine the 1 or 2 stack threshold in this case), the knockback removes it first, allowing the mine to additionally rip another boon instead (resulting in 2 removals by the U-Mine in case of 1-stack-Stability and another boon). If there is more than one stack of stability, the knockback will first reduce the stack by one (leaving stability), and the boonstrip will then continue to strip a random boon (which could be stability), thus resulting in the U-Mine "just" removing a single boon :)

>

> > Keep also in mind he did the boon removal on a target that had 12 boons, something that players in blobs usually don't have. Meaning stability is bound to get into the removal.

> Yes, if everything hits, it would be quite strong. But unless a-net **really** meant to increase the number of boonstrips even on the secondary mines (which would be bonkers), I doubt that the mine kit will see any more use than it does now. I barely see anyone using the Tools Traitline (most seem to run Scrapper with Inventions and Alchemy as Medics), and the buff (if it works like I suspect it will) would just add another two (or four, when you sacrifice your support for the Tools line) boonstrips. If I assume that on average 2 secondary mines hit their targets successfully (which seems like a realistic guess to me), you would end up with 5-8 boons stripped on the intended target by using both the Utility and it's toolbelt skill. However, unlike AoE boonstrips covering a larger area, you can (if timed right) completely evade the whole setup by dodging into it - a single well timed dodge should trigger all of the mines while avoiding the boonstrip, if I recall that right.

>

 

 

Edit. Nvm i misunderstood what you were trying to say oops.