Guardian Hammer is useless

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > You've decided performance is an important criteria to you ... others don't. Just because it doesn't perform the way you want it to so it's a strong choice in your criteria doesn't mean that's a good reason to change it. If you want hammer to be a choice for you in PVE ... change your thinking about how you play the game. You're going to dismiss that anyways ... but it's true because in this game there is a range of performance and that means something is the best ... that also means something is the worst. It's not a reason to buff something. It's just a consequence of the choices we have available to us.

> >

> > See, you don't use a hammer because it doesn't work for you ... and that's OK ... but it's not a problem that needs to be fixed.

>

> jesus i wonder if you ever have moments when you hear yourself.

 

What I said here reflects how the game works for its entire existence. Hammer needs a buff? OK, but not because it doesn't meet some players' performance requirements to choose it in PVE. That makes no sense. That kind of reason literally justifies EVERY change any player wants for any weapon in PVE. I mean, he ASKED, so I told him. It's something people can see if they aren't so stubborn to ignore it's real.

[Hannelore.8153]

Despite the nay-sayers, Hammer does have its uses.

 

Its one of the easiest way to make the group shed conditions for "We Bleed Fire" instability, since it can spam AoE cleanses. Its also a good source of CC for breakbars, the Protection uptime is nice (everyone stacks in PvE anyway, so it rarely misses anyone with the Symbol), and while the DPS isn't top-tier, it does beat alot of other weapons available in the game.

 

Its off-meta, and it could use more damage (alot more), due to its slow attack speed, but it does its job. I think quite possibly the most useful change would be to make the Hammer #5 skill reflect projectiles like Mesmer Focus wall does.

[Black Bandit.9425]

I get that some of you are content with mediocrity of the hammer, I've been using hammer since day one and it's not fun to use, in any game mode. Besides the obvious protection buff and a bit of cc...that's literally all it has to offer in terms of usability. It's literally garbage...your just there to buff. The whole concept is for the hammer to be fun and viable right its at a horrible place and needs to taken a look at. Faster swing speed, and the ring should be instant cast. How are other tools insta casting ice fields and traps an a ring of warding needs a cast time it does no damage???

[Buran.3796]

Hammers are overall in very dysmal state amongst the few classes which use them. Warrior's hammer: insanely weak in PvP and garbage at PvE; Guardian's hammer: too low damage in PvE and too slow for PvP (also featuring cc moves which are entirely outdated); Scrapper's hammer: good for brusier builds at PvP and roaming, bad at PvE where the spec is entirely outclased by the Holo; Rev's hammer: useless at every game mode (including zerging).

 

In GW2 the weapons frame the combat skills you can use, which has the good part in which classes aren't glued to a predefined look or fighting style. But the problem is that when a weapon is clearly underperforming compared to others they are fastly ditched by the players, and since the pace of balance patches is glacial once a weapon falls from grace oftenly that means facing years of no usability ahead. In the case of the Guardian and Rev the hammer feels just abandoned content, as dated as dungeons...

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I want to like Guardian hammer, but I know Anet well enough that they aren't going to do much beyond tweaking numbers on it.

 

What I would tweak?

 

Slightly faster AA chain. (3s instead of 3.45s)

Mighty Blow does the same damage across game modes (PvE damage modifier in WvW/PvP)

Zealot's embrace becomes a line AoE and not a projectile

Banish gets its damage back in PvP/WvW (this was the god-awfully most stupid change to every have been implemented in this game period. Hate CC's? Then take stability and/or a sunbreak for Balthazar's sake...).

Ring of Warding to reflect projectiles, add pulsing damage to the field. Nothing too high, like maybe a 1k crit per pulse on a berserker power build versus a heavy golem.

 

Realistically a faster AA chain, and Zealot's embrace becoming a line AoE are the best you can hope for though. That and MAYBE CC's getting their damage values back which would help Guardian Hammer out a little bit in competitive play. In PvE adding in pulsing damage on Ring of Warding would at least open up the weapon to leverage Permeating Wrath more and possibly bump its DPS to above mediocre rather than the current mediocre levels.

 

[Heizero.9183]

Personally I completely disagree with this sentiment. Hammer has been at the core of my roaming guardian builds since vanilla. It actually feels great again since they lowered the cooldown on skill #2. Glacial Blow burst is insanely high and trapping a target in your ring is devastating.

 

Me and my guild love hammer guard so much its not uncommon for us to run 3 or 4 at a time when roaming.

 

I do agree that it is a very niche weapon, but when you play to its strengths it is a game changer. Its scarcity also helps because many average players are not used to seeing hammer and do not typically have the muscle memory to react to being Hammer 5d in time to avoid the devastating hammer 2.

 

Its a ton of fun and very effective in roaming/zerg busting groups and I would hate to see its mechanics change. Imo every skill on it is valuable and synchronizes very well with each other in this environment. My only comment on its current state is that I would love to see the hammer 5 castable while moving. I think that small update would honestly make a world of difference. Otherwise, the Judges Intervention/ Ring of Warding combo is always my go-to opener. "Welcome to the Thunderdome!"

 

I know many of you would disagree with me butbif you would like to hear more details about how powerful this weapon really is in roaming/small scale or want to see my build or see it in action in-game just let me know.

 

This was long but I hope it helps some you understand how exceptionally this weapon can perform in its niche. If any of you ever get slammed by one of the BLNT hammer guards in NA just remember this post. Happy hunting.

[Ogwom.7940]

@"Obtena.7952"

 

So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

Not everyone RPs, I just want to have fun playing hammer on my guardian.

I do agree that having different ways and styles of playing using a weapon like hammer on guardian and being creative with your gameplay is beneficial in keeping your interest in the game.

But even then, it doesn't feel fun for me and it would be less beneficial for someone to use hammer guardian in more higher end content.

 

Maybe I can expect people to not want it to change, since GW2's demographic may consist more of casual players.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ogwom.7940" said:

>

> So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

 

Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

 

Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

 

[Ogwom.7940]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> >

> > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

>

> Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

>

> Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

>

 

Nope, that's pretty much what your opinion implies...

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > >

> > > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

> >

> > Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

> >

> > Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

> >

>

> Nope, that's pretty much what your opinion implies...

 

Hammer not being useful to you isn't a reason to change it. That's not a matter of opinion.

[Ogwom.7940]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > >

> > > > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

> > >

> > > Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

> > >

> > > Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

> > >

> >

> > Nope, that's pretty much what your opinion implies...

>

> I won't argue however you want to interpret how this game works. hammer not being useful to you isn't a reason to change it. That's not a matter of opinion.

 

That is an absurd argument.

It is akin to having one broken limb, then going to the doctor to ask him to fix it, but he says he won't because you have 3 other limbs that work perfectly fine and just because one broken limb isn't useful to you at the moment is not a good enough reason to fix it.

That's ridiculous lol

 

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> >

> > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

>

> Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me **and ignore how the game works.**

 

What does this even mean? How does the game work then?

I've been playing this game since the beta weekend events of the Vanilla Game, I would think I know how it works to a slight degree.

Your argument is a philosophical perspective rather than examples of actual concrete game mechanics (beneficial or detrimental) based around Hammer on Guardian.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

> > > >

> > > > Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

> > > >

> > > > Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Nope, that's pretty much what your opinion implies...

> >

> > I won't argue however you want to interpret how this game works. hammer not being useful to you isn't a reason to change it. That's not a matter of opinion.

>

> That is an absurd argument.

 

No it's not ... this game isn't designed so that everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things. Therefore, hammer being useless to you in PVE isn't a problem that needs to be fixed.

 

> I've been playing this game since the beta weekend events of the Vanilla Game, I would think I know how it works to a slight degree.

 

Great, then you know what I'm saying to you above is true.

[Ogwom.7940]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

> > > > >

> > > > > Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

> > > > >

> > > > > Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Nope, that's pretty much what your opinion implies...

> > >

> > > I won't argue however you want to interpret how this game works. hammer not being useful to you isn't a reason to change it. That's not a matter of opinion.

> >

> > That is an absurd argument.

>

> No it's not ... this game isn't designed so that everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things. **Therefore, hammer being useless to you in PVE isn't a problem that needs to be fixed. **

 

If statistically only 10% of guardian users ever use and like hammer compared to 90% of people who don't, would you still have the same position? Because you are almost implying that I am the only one in this game who doesn't find it useful. To me that is an irrational argument.

 

> > I've been playing this game since the beta weekend events of the Vanilla Game, I would think I know how it works to a slight degree.

>

> Great, then you know what I'm saying to you above is true.

 

Nah, that isn't true. It is a very weak argument and does barely anything to support your position.

Again, I will ask.

How does the game work?

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Nope, that's pretty much what your opinion implies...

> > > >

> > > > I won't argue however you want to interpret how this game works. hammer not being useful to you isn't a reason to change it. That's not a matter of opinion.

> > >

> > > That is an absurd argument.

> >

> > No it's not ... this game isn't designed so that everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things. **Therefore, hammer being useless to you in PVE isn't a problem that needs to be fixed. **

>

> If statistically only 10% of guardian users ever use and like hammer compared to 90% of people who don't, would you still have the same position?

 

Well, considering it has ZERO impact on me what percent of players use a hammer, of course my position doesn't change.

 

There isn't anything irrational here because it's how this game has worked for over 8 years. YOu keep asking me how the game works ... I'm telling you. The game isn't designed so that everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things. Again, you're ignoring that to argue with me about something that has been a truth in this game from the beginning.

 

I'm going to help you out ... because Hammer needs attention ... but not because it's 'useless'. The first point is that Hammer 5 is a 'ward' effect ... an abandoned concept that is holding it back since NOTHING in the game mechanics interact with it. So there is bandwidth on #5 to do ANYTHING more relevant to effects that are supported in the game. There is also a problem with Hammer 1 ... because it's too loaded with effects and it turns hammer into a primarily AA camp weapon. That's deficient gameplay. IMO, Anet should spread some of those effects out to other skills on the weapon.

 

Now, notice how my points have NOTHING to do with 'useless' because hammer 5 isn't useless and neither is hammer 1. These are design-based considerations and fixing them IMO would make the gameplay potential of the weapon more attractive for people looking for something more than just pressing 1.

[Ogwom.7940]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Nope, that's pretty much what your opinion implies...

> > > > >

> > > > > I won't argue however you want to interpret how this game works. hammer not being useful to you isn't a reason to change it. That's not a matter of opinion.

> > > >

> > > > That is an absurd argument.

> > >

> > > No it's not ... this game isn't designed so that everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things. **Therefore, hammer being useless to you in PVE isn't a problem that needs to be fixed. **

> >

> > If statistically only 10% of guardian users ever use and like hammer compared to 90% of people who don't, would you still have the same position?

>

> Well, considering it has ZERO impact on me what percent of players use a hammer, of course my position doesn't change.

 

Considering “what” has zero impact on you?

Knowing the statistics? That is a pretty valid point in this discussion and it would be unfair and unjust to just simply ignore those facts to replace with comments on how “you” personally feel with how the majority of guardian players should play their characters.

Knowing the statistics will help enable us to understand what works and what doesn’t, as well as what they have to change for the future.

That’s why there are balance patches in the first place... so we can improve the quality of life of this game.

 

> There isn't anything irrational here because it's how this game has worked for over 8 years. YOu keep asking me how the game works ... I'm telling you. The game isn't designed so that everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things. Again, you're ignoring that to argue with me about something that has been a truth in this game from the beginning.

>

>

 

Provide a link to when Arenanet told us that that is exactly how GW2 works.

Again it is a weak argument by making a large assumption that I don’t know how the “game works”.

I don’t know everything and neither do you because we are not the ANet devs who built this game and coded everything from scratch.

 

I can understand certain things such as WvW being unbalanced for a reason, but slightly changing how a weapon works on a specific class isn’t even equivalent to the concept of a whole game mode.

You seem to have completely ignored my doctors analogy.

If you go back, read and understand it, you will see where your logic is faulty and irrational.

Just because you are okay, doesn’t mean everyone else is okay.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nope, that's pretty much what your opinion implies...

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I won't argue however you want to interpret how this game works. hammer not being useful to you isn't a reason to change it. That's not a matter of opinion.

> > > > >

> > > > > That is an absurd argument.

> > > >

> > > > No it's not ... this game isn't designed so that everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things. **Therefore, hammer being useless to you in PVE isn't a problem that needs to be fixed. **

> > >

> > > If statistically only 10% of guardian users ever use and like hammer compared to 90% of people who don't, would you still have the same position?

> >

> > Well, considering it has ZERO impact on me what percent of players use a hammer, of course my position doesn't change.

>

> Considering “what” has zero impact on you?

 

The fact that people do or don't play hammer; You made some assumption my opinion would change if I knew what percentage of people use and like hammer ... you are wrong. The statistics aren't relevant at all because you can't assume some percentage of players doing something or not doing something is meaningful or not. You don't even know what that statistic is to begin with ... so it's nonsense to make a statistically-based argument in EITHER case.

 

> Provide a link to when Arenanet told us that that is exactly how GW2 works.

 

You don't need a link ... you can see it. We don't need Anet to tell us things we can see that are true. The game isn't designed so that everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things. If that wasn't true ... then we WOULD have a situation where everything is useful to every player for whatever game mode they want to use those things. In fact, that situation could NEVER be possible, so the conclusion HAS to be what I said.

 

Besides ... talk is cheap ... what is relevant is how the game actually works and there is NO QUESTION that the game works in a way so that NOT everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things.

 

If something is a no-value option to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. It's why we have choice.

[Ogwom.7940]

@"Obtena.7952"

 

 

 

I can’t take you seriously if you prefer to ignore actual facts and make up stuff just to fit your narrative.

I never said I had the stats, but if we did it would still be extremely relevant to this topic.

We can make polls to see what people actually think.

My point is, if we knew what the stats were, it would help determine how we can leave or improve the weapon.

 

What is the point of having a useless weapon?

Exactly, nothing.

It doesn’t “diversify” anything if many people won’t use it.

 

You are making baseless assumptions where as most people on this thread have provided actual flaws or pros in guardian hammer mechanics.

Again, since you have no proof to your claim on knowing how this game works is not true.

Only ANet can give a concrete answer on that one.

 

Just because you personally don’t want something to change for the better doesn’t mean everyone else feels the same way.> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > So basically, you expect people to use hammer for literally RP purposes instead of practical ones.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Nope ... that's just your spin on what I'm saying to you so you can justify continuing to argue with me and ignore how the game works.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Hey, I'm not going to force anyone to recognize the value of the weapon. If it's a no-value weapon to you .. that's not a problem that needs to be fixed. Not every weapon needs to have 'value' to every player, EVEN if you want to use it.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nope, that's pretty much what your opinion implies...

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > I won't argue however you want to interpret how this game works. hammer not being useful to you isn't a reason to change it. That's not a matter of opinion.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That is an absurd argument.

> > > > >

> > > > > No it's not ... this game isn't designed so that everything is useful to every player for whatever specific game mode they want to use those things. **Therefore, hammer being useless to you in PVE isn't a problem that needs to be fixed. **

> > > >

> > > > If statistically only 10% of guardian users ever use and like hammer compared to 90% of people who don't, would you still have the same position?

> > >

> > > Well, considering it has ZERO impact on me what percent of players use a hammer, of course my position doesn't change.

> >

> > Considering “what” has zero impact on you?

>

> The fact that people do or don't play hammer; You made some assumption my opinion would change if I knew what percentage of people use and like hammer ... you are wrong. The statistics aren't relevant at all because you can't assume some percentage of players doing something or not doing something is meaningful or not. You don't even know what that statistic is to begin with ... so it's nonsense to make a statistically-based argument in EITHER case.

>

 

That wasn’t an assumption lol.

You’re just grasping at straws at this point.

All you points are absurd, unsubstantiated and being nothing to better this conversation.

I will make an assumption now that you are just trying to be edgy and confrontational and when I pressed your perspective on this situation you started to make up stuff.

 

I will make a poll to get some sort of background or hindsight on how people truly feel about hammer.

 

[Buran.3796]

> @"Heizero.9183" said:

 

> Me and my guild love hammer guard so much its not uncommon for us to run 3 or 4 at a time when roaming.

>

 

 

I can see how 3-4 of you fighting at the same time with hammers in WvW can make you feel that the weapon is powerful. But that's a hollow feeling, like armwrestling a 7 year old and bragging about winning. There's a reason you don't see hammers in neither PvE nor PvP (aside from Scrappers). They are outdated. They didn't endure the power creep of PoF.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> I never said I had the stats,...

 

I know ... and that's why you shouldn't have brought it up to being with. But I do love they way you used 'statistics' to dismiss my non-statistically based point ... but DIDN'T do the same for you own point. BRAVO! Ironically, you still conclude the weapon is useless to everyone, yet without the statistics needed to make that conclusion ... I guess 'statistics' are only relevant to you when they suit you.

 

> ... but if we did it would still be extremely relevant to this topic.

> We can make polls to see what people actually think.

 

And those polls wouldn't have the power to be statistically significant anyways ... and still wouldn't avoid the conversation we are having now. You have this thinking that what people think is how the game should work ... except we know that CAN'T be true because the game can't cater to individuals specific ideas about how the game should work. This means what I'm saying is true, exceptionally so in this case where there are more choices and opinions about how the game should work than Anet could possibly manage even if they tried. That's why hammer not having value to you in the situation you want to apply it isn't a reason to change it.

[Heizero.9183]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Heizero.9183" said:

>

> > Me and my guild love hammer guard so much its not uncommon for us to run 3 or 4 at a time when roaming.

> >

>

>

> I can see how 3-4 of you fighting at the same time with hammers in WvW can make you feel that the weapon is powerful. But that's a hollow feeling, like armwrestling a 7 year old and bragging about winning. There's a reason you don't see hammers in neither PvE nor PvP (aside from Scrappers). They are outdated. They didn't endure the power creep of PoF.

 

Don't misunderstand, I solo roam with hammer very effectively. We all do. The weapon IS powerful when used properly in WvW. I know it isn't good in PvE and it's PvP application is debatable as well, but that's why I specifically said it was niche. It is very good at what it does where it's applicable. Which is fine imo.

[Touchme.1097]

Hammer deserves to become the next Meta 2hander in the future. Nothings hits harder than a fat hammer, and there is no armour type that can save your bones from the bash. Not many Meta builds use hammers in PvE.

[Ogwom.7940]

> @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> @"Obtena.7952"

>

>

>

> I can’t take you seriously if you prefer to ignore actual facts and make up stuff just to fit your narrative.

> I never said I had the stats, but** if we did it would still be extremely relevant to this topic.**

> We can make polls to see what people actually think.

> **My point is, if we knew what the stats were, it would help determine how we can leave or improve the weapon.

**

Here I said that we would need to see what people think, whether they should leave or improve hammer.

You are the one who is trying to start conflict here.

 

I never said I was right, I just am providing actual concrete points as to why I dislike hammer and why many people won't play hammer compared to other weapons.

You are only speculating that I am the only one who feels like this.

Basically by your logic, we wouldn't be advanced in technology and society without the use of facts, tests and cross referencing.

Of course one poll is not going to reflect the majority of the GW2 community, but with multiple ones on different sites you can reach more people.

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> > I never said I had the stats,...

>

> I know ... and that's why you shouldn't have brought it up to being with. But I do love they way you used 'statistics' to dismiss my non-statistically based point ... but DIDN'T do the same for you own point. BRAVO! Ironically, you still conclude the weapon is useless to everyone, yet without the statistics needed to make that conclusion ... I guess 'statistics' are only relevant to you when they suit you.

 

It is still quite a useless weapon, maybe not for everyone, but definitely not for RPers, cosplayers and the people I beat constantly in WvW and PvP.

Your point is not only non-stat based, but is also lacking factually.

I also never said I had the statistics, just basing on the build cycles people have used over the past 8 years, as well as (I know it isn't the best) anecdotal.

That's why I think polls would definitely help clarify how people think.

I've also given examples of the actual mechanics of hammer, which are based on fact and truth, rather than a baseless opiniated perspective..

 

> > ... but if we did it would still be extremely relevant to this topic.

> > We can make polls to see what people actually think.

>

> And those polls wouldn't have the power to be statistically significant anyways ... and still wouldn't avoid the conversation we are having now. **You have this thinking that what people think is how the game should work** ... except we know that CAN'T be true because the game can't cater to individuals specific ideas about how the game should work. This means what I'm saying is true, exceptionally so in this case where there are more choices and opinions about how the game should work than Anet could possibly manage even if they tried. That's why hammer not having value to you in the situation you want to apply it isn't a reason to change it.

 

lol isn't that exactly what you are doing right now? Of "what people think is how the game should work"? That isn't a strong argument.

You are talking in absolutes as if nothing can or has never been changed in this game. Compared to how the game first started to now, is a good enough reason to assume you are wrong to think that.

You also made another baseless assumption that I am the only one who feels this way about hammer guardian.

What you are saying is definitely not true lol

Look at metabattle, snowcrows and etc for the past few years, and there are barely ever any builds for hammer, and I am not talking about meta builds. What diversity are you talking about? You act like if they improved hammer, then it would absolutely take away so much diversity similar to them completely removing hammer from the game lol

Anyways, continue to tilt by giving me patronizing "bravos" in all caps.

Your logic is flawed, end of story.

Now can we shift the conversation back to hammer mechanics and away from how you feel everyone should act and behave in a video game?

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ogwom.7940" said:

> It is still quite a useless weapon,

 

Then don't use it ... the fact there are weapons you don't find useful in a specific scenario isn't a reason to change them so they do. As we can see in the thread, there **are** people that do have use for it and they AREN'T just 'RP' people.

 

> Your point is not only non-stat based, but is also lacking factually.

 

No it's not lacking factually ... it's indeed a fact that Anet can't cater to individuals specific ideas about how the game should work. That's why Hammer being useless in PVE to you or anyone else is not a problem that Anet needs to fix. It has a purpose and people use it effectively for that purpose.

 

>Now can we shift the conversation back to hammer mechanics ...

 

Sure ... let's talk about Hammer mechanics .... in WVW or PVP ... because if you want to use Hammer in the co-operative PVE environment, nothing is stopping you from doing so unless _you decide_ your criteria excludes it as a choice.

 

Let's put it this way ... if you want to continue to respond to me, this is the path the discussion will be taking ... because you are WRONG. Hammer does have value to people and those people AREN'T just RPers that you can just brush aside for your own self-serving ideas of how the game should work for you. If you aren't going to recognize the place the weapon has in the game for people that find it useful, you aren't knowledgeable enough about the weapon to discuss how it should change to begin with.

[Altion.9576]

It sucks, meanwhile Revenant has the best hammer ingame imo. It should work as the axe, It would be cool as a weapon able to create aoe shields or aoe safezones by smashing it to the ground, or if it caused cripple or stun or even fear.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Altion.9576" said:

> It sucks, meanwhile Revenant has the best hammer ingame imo.

 

 

Best one currently in the game is Scrapper's. Rev's hammer is useless in PvE and PvP, and in WvW the last batch of nerfs since 2018 turned it into crap: the aa is slow and easy to negate, and the damage is just low; Coalescence of Ruin cancels itself if you move beyond 30º of your starting position when you begin the cast, or if you move forward or backward too fast, and is oftenly blocked in uneven terrain (and by uneven I mean a 5 cm step or some other random crap); Drop the Hammer is the slowest and most telling skill in the game while dealing 0 damage. Phase Smash has i-frames but at the same time roots you, and the cooldown is just too long to be anything but a joke. I used to run a hammer Guardian and a hammer Rev at every game mode when GW2 and HoT were released, and let me tell you that now they are garbage, specially Rev's one because numbers aside (damage, cooldowns, procs... ) they changed the mechanics of CoR, so now along sobpar damage is 0% reliable, even at PvE.