Anet.. can you make a DPS meter?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Kundry.1249 said:

> Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

 

ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre. This is natural player expects better quality and running away from cliche approaches like game mentioned in your post, to make Guild Wars 2 unique product on the market.

[thrag.9740]

> @Kururu.8140 said:

> Ye, I agree. I know Anet made it legal to use DPS meters as long as it's only analysing the screen but I'm still reluctant to download one. I'd like it if they added their own personal DPS meter.

 

This is actually incorrect. The standard dps meters we use now, such as arcdps, are memory reading. A long time ago we had dps meters that literally just read numbers on the screen, but in the past year anet approved the more accurate memory reading types.

[Maunzi.3764]

> @thrag.9740 said:

> I actually think 3rd party is probably the smart way to do this. I'm an active raider, and I get why we would all love a 1st party meter. However, there is no doubt gw2 has a lot of casual players. Casual players with dps meters is not a good thing, they won't use them correctly, and won't be able to interpret them correctly. They will do stupid things like trash talk dps in open world pve, or complain about a players dps while ignoring boon uptime.

 

Sounds like a hardcore pug raider to me. The kind that complains about the orb pushing Druid's DPS.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @Kundry.1249 said:

> > Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

>

> ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre. This is natural player expects better quality and running away from cliche approaches like game mentioned in your post, to make Guild Wars 2 unique product on the market.

 

Exactly. Not just Unique and Different.. but Better.

 

and lets be real.. 3rd party trackers.. feel just like that.. spyware trackers.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > @Kundry.1249 said:

> > > Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

> >

> > ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre. This is natural player expects better quality and running away from cliche approaches like game mentioned in your post, to make Guild Wars 2 unique product on the market.

>

> Exactly. Not just Unique and Different.. but Better.

>

> and lets be real.. 3rd party trackers.. feel just like that.. spyware trackers.

 

"ArcDPS - measuring efficiency every day - today it's you, tomorrow your wallet"

[CptAurellian.9537]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > **Better Quality Product**, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, **and it would eliminates disagreement among the players**, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

> > Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with the fat points. It's a common experience from other MMOs having full modding capacity for addons that interface solutions etc. from the devs themselves are rarely what players want/need. Given the choice, I've always had the impression that most halfway serious players will stick rather to a custom addon than to the devs' solution. So no, ANet making a dps meter would not be a guaranty for a high quality product - rather the opposite, in my experience. With regard to the QQ about dps meters - do you really believe that? To me, that's highly naive, nothing more. The whiners will continue whining either till they realise nothing will change or till dps meters are fully removed (which would be an incredibly bad decision).

> >

>

> You seem to be under the impression they would have to make it, it's already in the game and been so for years, Tracking DPS and other stats/actions, is not new stuff to Anet, they have been doing this for quite a few years in their PvP game mode, (not to mention their PvE, ever wonder how you get Achievements?) DPS meters are archaic childs-play stuff to them, why do you think all this info (and a whole lot more) is already there and so easy to track, did you think that it was unintentional?

 

You didn't get the message. Certainly the tech is there and I have no doubt they _could_ build a meter from it, **but** it is highly questionable whether it would fulfill the players' requirements to the same degree as a third-party program does. Game devs rarely have a good concept of the functionalities and interface aspects players want. Additionally, they are flexible like a fat oil tanker, while someone like delta can respond to new stuff much more quickly.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > **Better Quality Product**, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, **and it would eliminates disagreement among the players**, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

> > > Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with the fat points. It's a common experience from other MMOs having full modding capacity for addons that interface solutions etc. from the devs themselves are rarely what players want/need. Given the choice, I've always had the impression that most halfway serious players will stick rather to a custom addon than to the devs' solution. So no, ANet making a dps meter would not be a guaranty for a high quality product - rather the opposite, in my experience. With regard to the QQ about dps meters - do you really believe that? To me, that's highly naive, nothing more. The whiners will continue whining either till they realise nothing will change or till dps meters are fully removed (which would be an incredibly bad decision).

> > >

> >

> > You seem to be under the impression they would have to make it, it's already in the game and been so for years, Tracking DPS and other stats/actions, is not new stuff to Anet, they have been doing this for quite a few years in their PvP game mode, (not to mention their PvE, ever wonder how you get Achievements?) DPS meters are archaic childs-play stuff to them, why do you think all this info (and a whole lot more) is already there and so easy to track, did you think that it was unintentional?

>

> You didn't get the message. Certainly the tech is there and I have no doubt they _could_ build a meter from it, **but** it is highly questionable whether it would fulfill the players' requirements to the same degree as a third-party program does. Game devs rarely have a good concept of the functionalities and interface aspects players want. Additionally, they are flexible like a fat oil tanker, while someone like delta can respond to new stuff much more quickly.

 

They can also use 3rd party app as a roadmap for designing their tool.

[Rising Dusk.2408]

I quite like the current DPS meter policy. It allows ANet to focus on more important things like content while modders can create their own tools on the side and get them approved through Chris Cleary. I've always felt that this is the way ANet should handle it, and while this 'program' is still in its infancy I think it's a step in the right direction.

[STIHL.2489]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > > > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > > **Better Quality Product**, More Accessible to the players, they get to control who sees what, **and it would eliminates disagreement among the players**, it's simply a feature as opposed to some invasive 3rd party spyware. There are many good reasons why Anet should do this.

> > > Sorry, but I have to strongly disagree with the fat points. It's a common experience from other MMOs having full modding capacity for addons that interface solutions etc. from the devs themselves are rarely what players want/need. Given the choice, I've always had the impression that most halfway serious players will stick rather to a custom addon than to the devs' solution. So no, ANet making a dps meter would not be a guaranty for a high quality product - rather the opposite, in my experience. With regard to the QQ about dps meters - do you really believe that? To me, that's highly naive, nothing more. The whiners will continue whining either till they realise nothing will change or till dps meters are fully removed (which would be an incredibly bad decision).

> > >

> >

> > You seem to be under the impression they would have to make it, it's already in the game and been so for years, Tracking DPS and other stats/actions, is not new stuff to Anet, they have been doing this for quite a few years in their PvP game mode, (not to mention their PvE, ever wonder how you get Achievements?) DPS meters are archaic childs-play stuff to them, why do you think all this info (and a whole lot more) is already there and so easy to track, did you think that it was unintentional?

>

> You didn't get the message. Certainly the tech is there and I have no doubt they _could_ build a meter from it, **but** it is highly questionable whether it would fulfill the players' requirements to the same degree as a third-party program does. Game devs rarely have a good concept of the functionalities and interface aspects players want. Additionally, they are flexible like a fat oil tanker, while someone like delta can respond to new stuff much more quickly.

 

Let me see if I have your point correctly, You believe that The very people that made the Raid itself, that you and yours are so enamored with that you are downloading 3rd party software just to play it more, you don't think they know what you want?

 

I have to say that twice just to process it, you don't think that the very people that made the raid itself... know what players want?

 

Now, you may have a point if raids were this catastrophic fail that was hated with a passion, but, the fact that so many are so infatuated with how great their raids are that they are making and downloading 3rd party software just so they can be better at them.. that strikes as this team knows what they are doing and knows what makes you all tick.

 

If even after all this time and all those raids, you really feel that the raid team is that clueless, and that game is build by people that utterly incompetent, why are you even still here?

[CptAurellian.9537]

You have little experience here and in other MMOs, have you? The quality of the raids is utterly irrelevant to the question of whether I expect ANet to be capable of producing a _good_ dps meter (or any other kind of addon). Just because one small team is good at producing raids it does not necessarily have to be good at anything else. That's a bit like asking the best car mechanic to do some intricate quantum mechanic calculations. Maybe he can even do them, but the likelihood is rather low. There have been enough games with better raids (though GW2 raids are, admittedly, nice casual stuff) where people have modded the hell out of the game, just because the dev solutions to those questions were mediocre to bad.

[STIHL.2489]

> @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> You have little experience here and in other MMOs, have you?

Lets get something clear,I have decades of MMO experience, and I raided, since there were raids, long before this "ultra casual everyone wins and gets the same loot" tripe, I was rushing raids though the Plane of Hate, so that CT was not gonna steam roll us.. Spare what you think you know, I bet at best you hid in WoW and think you have seen it all.

[STIHL.2489]

Now with that said.. Anet has shown to be very resourceful when they want to be, look at how they handled the mount issue. As such, if it was something of importance to them, I am sure they could make an amazing participation meter.. and if they don't.. then we would know exactly how much or little as the case may be, they care about raids and player DPS.

[Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489]

I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights. (Where I have to move out of aoe, stop to revive someone, get downed and wait for someone to revive me, use a cc skill that lowers my overall dps because it's a signet that boosts my dps when on passive etc.) And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

 

This doesn't mean I don't want a DPS meter, but not having access to an in-game one that is usable during fights is just kitten. They added raids, now they should make DPS meters available for all. Or just ban all use of 3rd party software, so everyone is on an equal footing.

[deltaconnected.4058]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > > @Kundry.1249 said:

> > > > Even in WoW, where DPS meters are the norm and everyone has it, they are made by third parties (as are the boss mods, which are also mandatory for raiding). There's no need for Anet to make their own.

> > >

> > > ArenaNet is all about being not-Blizzard. This is the very promise of this company and the game itself. Guild Wars 2 original manifest was about creating new, better standards for mmo genre. This is natural player expects better quality and running away from cliche approaches like game mentioned in your post, to make Guild Wars 2 unique product on the market.

> >

> > Exactly. Not just Unique and Different.. but Better.

> >

> > and lets be real.. 3rd party trackers.. feel just like that.. spyware trackers.

>

> "ArcDPS - measuring efficiency every day - today it's you, tomorrow your wallet"

 

No need. Windows, Flash, and plenty other [insert closed-source application you use and trust] already cornered those markets. Enough so that I don't even bother phoning home usage/config stats to decide which area gets a little focus for improvement.

[zinkz.7045]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> They won't because they want to sit on the fence. They want to not alienate the raiding crowd while pleasing the rabid open world magic casuals over their refusal to implement the tool themselves.

 

"rabid open world magic casuals" as opposed to rabid raiding tryhards.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489" said:

> I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights. (Where I have to move out of aoe, stop to revive someone, get downed and wait for someone to revive me, use a cc skill that lowers my overall dps because it's a signet that boosts my dps when on passive etc.) And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

>

> This doesn't mean I don't want a DPS meter, but not having access to an in-game one that is usable during fights is just kitten. They added raids, now they should make DPS meters available for all. Or just ban all use of 3rd party software, so everyone is on an equal footing.

 

Not to mention the golem does not account team play, where other players using AoE boons, like banners for example.

[Rising Dusk.2408]

> @"Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489" said:

> I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights.

You do realize that arcdps was _literally approved for usage_ by the GW2 security lead, right? It's super safe to use and you don't risk your account using it. Trust me, I have over 33k AP and felt the same way as you back before it was approved, but I have been using it openly and freely since the approval and it's great.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489" said:

> And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

 

If there is an update to the EULA they will inform us.

 

Btw this is from the EULA (Not sure why this is in caps while others parts aren't - bold mine):

>ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY **MECHANISM** ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS.

 

I suppose such a "MECHANISM" is also ArcDPS. So it's absolutely fine to use ArcDPS, no need to read the EULA constantly or any such non-sense.

[STIHL.2489]

> @maddoctor.2738 said:

> > @"Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489" said:

> > And I can't find it atm but I read something about constantly having to read up on the EULA to check if the 3rd party software was still OK or not. No thanks.

>

> If there is an update to the EULA they will inform us.

>

> Btw this is from the EULA (Not sure why this is in caps while others parts aren't - bold mine):

> >ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY **MECHANISM** ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS.

>

> I suppose such a "MECHANISM" is also ArcDPS. So it's absolutely fine to use ArcDPS, no need to read the EULA constantly or any such non-sense.

 

The caps is to make it clear that Anet can't be liable regarding issues of harassment under the idea that they should have known what was going on.

 

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Rising Dusk.2408" said:

> > @"Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489" said:

> > I wish Anet would make a DPS meter so I could monitor myself. I'm not going to download 3rd party software and risk my account in order to do that, and while the golem is a nice addition it tells me nothing of how I'm doing in actual fights.

> You do realize that arcdps was _literally approved for usage_ by the GW2 security lead, right? It's super safe to use and you don't risk your account using it. Trust me, I have over 33k AP and felt the same way as you back before it was approved, but I have been using it openly and freely since the approval and it's great.

 

You also understand that Anet security only cares about the game and what information is taken from the game itself, if the program datamines your computer, Anet does not care, nor are they liable for such. Just keep that little tidbit in mind as you load it up.

[Substatic.6958]

How about they fix the industry worst balance first? Never seen a game with this huge of a delta gap accross so many specs.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Substatic.6958 said:

> How about they fix the industry worst balance first? Never seen a game with this huge of a delta gap accross so many specs.

 

Woah there. lets not ask for the impossible .

[Rhanoa.3960]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > You have little experience here and in other MMOs, have you?

> Lets get something clear,I have decades of MMO experience, and I raided, since there were raids, long before this "ultra casual everyone wins and gets the same loot" tripe, I was rushing raids though the Plane of Hate, so that CT was not gonna steam roll us.. Spare what you think you know, I bet at best you hid in WoW and think you have seen it all.

 

Let's get something clear, YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE! Just about everyone whips out the **I GOT EXPERIENCE CARD**, and the **look here I know what I am talking about**. It doesn't mean many of us came here to experience the same games many of have us already played over and over and over and over again.

[STIHL.2489]

> @Rhanoa.3960 said:

> > @STIHL.2489 said:

> > > @CptAurellian.9537 said:

> > > You have little experience here and in other MMOs, have you?

> > Lets get something clear,I have decades of MMO experience, and I raided, since there were raids, long before this "ultra casual everyone wins and gets the same loot" tripe, I was rushing raids though the Plane of Hate, so that CT was not gonna steam roll us.. Spare what you think you know, I bet at best you hid in WoW and think you have seen it all.

>

> Let's get something clear, YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE! Just about everyone whips out the **I GOT EXPERIENCE CARD**, and the **look here I know what I am talking about**. It doesn't mean many of us came here to experience the same games many of have us already played over and over and over and over again.

 

Not being rude.. but.. what exactly is the point you are trying to make, and how does it pertain to the OP.. just asking so I can respond appropriately, because right now I am stumped.

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

> @STIHL.2489 said:

> > @xDudisx.5914 said:

> > **CAN** they make it? Yes, absolutely. **WILL** they make it? Who knows.

> > I think they won't implement one because there is not a big incentive for them to do so. It is not casual friendly and has potential to generate more segregation among players.

>

> > @Kururu.8140 said:

> > Ye, I agree. I know Anet made it legal to use DPS meters as long as it's only analysing the screen but I'm still reluctant to download one. I'd like it if they added their own personal DPS meter.

>

> > @Belorn.2659 said:

> > What would be an improvement is if anet would extend the API model so that the information that the DPS tool gather is derived from their API. It would not be a massive step from what we have now, but a small step to make everything easier for everyone.

>

> > @SkyShroud.2865 said:

> > Is it not obvious enough? Anet does not want to spend resources on it which is why they let it be and likewise created API for certain things so the community can do it instead of them. It save resources aka money.

>

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > I would welcome fully supported official DPS meter. Since ArenaNet decided to create and promote hardcore endgame content it is only natural consequence for them to provide proper tools for the kind of people they are inviting to the game.

>

> The thing is, **They _already have the meters in place_ for their PvP arenas**, not only do they track DPS, but healing, kills, and defense, I would wager from their attempts at E-sports. so it makes no sense for them to not put the same kind of feature in their raids, if their player base wants it so badly they made it themselves. In fact if Anet put in the feature it could even be set up to give top stat awards like PvP, and support players could also get bonus rewards for healing, raising downed players, etc.

>

> There is no real reason why Anet should not put this in, they already have it in the game, so it would not require any additional development.

 

This makes a lot of sense to me. They could add it for certain areas of the game, including fractals and they could even include lore to go along with it. Like Dessa pops up after the fractal is over with her summary of the "data" she "gathered" during your fractal encounter etc etc. Same could go for raiding and Scholar Glenna, she could just give you a report after the boss fight win/lose etc.

 

If they did something like this, they could include it in the mechanics of fights, like an NPC voice-over telling you something bad (boss mechanic) is going to happen if you (personally) don't do more damage or you are doing well type of thing, to help people get into raiding easier and judge their performance in real-time without having to look at a bar graph or numbers.