Necromancer Shroud Life bar Insane, Condition damage Insane

[Tazer.2157]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> Can you imagine being a dev and seeing stuff like this and earth shield nerfs, while ranger is out there apparently slaughtering everything it sees (ESPECIALLY necro), and wondering how to balance the game?

 

Rangers have an advantage over necros. However with other classes, going against necro is difficult. Rangers can be easily dealt with if you play a warrior or a thief or a rev. Get close to the ranger and they are easy.

[InFamouz.4097]

The problem i have with necro is the ress signet, a class with that mutch sustain (and medium damage) should not have a skill that ress ppl.

[Zephoid.4263]

> @"InFamouz.4097" said:

> The problem i have with necro is the ress signet, a class with that mutch sustain (and medium damage) should not have a skill that ress ppl.

 

Isn't reviving ppl half the point of necro? They have an entire trait line with an ability at every level dealing with reviving.

 

The signet isn't the problem. Last Rites is. The signet's passive is nearly worthless and the revive ability is on half the classes in the game. Last rites enables near instant revives and is a passive part of one of the better trait lines. It also allows necros to synergize with each other incredibly well. The 1 heals then while they don't lose health when down, meaning just proximity is enough to bring each other up, rather than active reviving.

[Eurantien.4632]

> @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > Can you imagine being a dev and seeing stuff like this and earth shield nerfs, while ranger is out there apparently slaughtering everything it sees (ESPECIALLY necro), and wondering how to balance the game?

>

> Rangers have an advantage over necros. However with other classes, going against necro is difficult. Rangers can be easily dealt with if you play a warrior or a thief or a rev. Get close to the ranger and they are easy.

 

Are you for real? Ranger is utterly broken If the ranger cant 1 shot you from 1800 range or with a 25k maul then the pet will 1 shot you. Class is busted. Necro is just a bucket of HP

[Ouk.5914]

> @"Leafstorm.1349" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > Can you imagine being a dev and seeing stuff like this and earth shield nerfs, while ranger is out there apparently slaughtering everything it sees (ESPECIALLY necro), and wondering how to balance the game?

>

> That's only if it has support. Necro doesn't need support. Necro doesn't need anything but a nerf. Necro is a platform for bad players to ignore game mechanics and just smash their head against the keys and still be able to do something.

 

how the hell are u guys having such a hard time still after the nerf they got? Matter fact the only two necro builds i seen have been reaper and condi core necro that no longer runs deathmagic at all.

 

How the hell are u guys still struggling this much with a class that has close to 0 stability up time and very little damage over all if traited for condi? DE, Ranger, Rev, FB, Core Guardian, and even Power Mirage or core mesmer all completely destroy necro with no support assuming both players are around the same level.

 

Forums has 100% become a joke.

[Brimstone Jack.3462]

> @"Tazer.2157" said:

> > @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> > Can you imagine being a dev and seeing stuff like this and earth shield nerfs, while ranger is out there apparently slaughtering everything it sees (ESPECIALLY necro), and wondering how to balance the game?

>

> Rangers have an advantage over necros. However with other classes, going against necro is difficult. Rangers can be easily dealt with if you play a warrior or a thief or a rev. Get close to the ranger and they are easy.

 

Staff skills on necro can help with rangers, at least at low ranking/unranked pvp. I can't comment on higher level match-ups.

[Kuma.1503]

Necro doesn't need a nerf, It needs a rework. Currently, it can survive for an astonishingly long time while literally afk.

I do not mean, "lol playing so braindead they may as well be afk." I mean literally hands off the keyboard letting passive traits keep them alive.

 

Make necro's sustain more active. Give players a better way to play around life force. Instead of letting them generate life force on autos, which is passive gameplay, attatch life force to skills which have a minor tell to them. As compensation, allow these skills to generate large amounts of life force.

 

I should be able to say "Oh he's casting Skill X, I should avoid/LoS this or he'll generate large amounts of shroud". Currently the opponent has no way of interacting with this mechanic.

 

As an example: Dagger 1 should not generate life force. Dagger 2 now siphons life force if the target is bleeding.

 

Following up on making Necro's sustain require more thought, nerf spectral armor's duration to 3 seconds. Spectral armor should be a skill that you pop similarly to glint heal. Currently its long duration means that necros can pop this with little though and become immune to pressure for a good chunk of a teamfight. Factor in Unholy Sanctuary's 30s cooldown and the necro can afford to be lax with their timing.

 

As compensation, spectral armor should grant the necro substantially more shroud when struck. Reward the necro for timing this skill well.

 

Unholy Sanctuary should go. It's a safety net that encourages reckless play. I'm not sure what it should be replaced with, but it should be something that feels equally impactful.

 

Playing necro should feel like a constant dance with death. Skillful players should be able to use their abilities to similar death defying effect as we witness now, but careless players should be punished more harshly for their mistakes.

 

Perhaps this will make them easier to balance in the future as the class won't function as a stat stick. In other words, when their numbers are good they run over the opposition. When their numbers are bad they're canon fodder that needs to be babysat in order to have a fighting chance. `

[Fantasylife.7981]

too much trouble reworking necro , just nerf its shroud on core and every specilization and should be okay

[Axl.8924]

> @"Fantasylife.7981" said:

> too much trouble reworking necro , just nerf its shroud on core and every specialization and should be okay

 

That's a terrible excuse.

 

You could use that excuse to everything: Too much trouble to rework guardian and warr afaik just delete it.

 

It's a lazy poor excuse. Every class needs proper balance where the game is fun on both sides the player and to play against.

 

 

 

 

[Wayne.6253]

actually pvp is unplayable, is a necro/rev/ranger fiesta... and devs don't do nothing.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > Necro just needs to force more active ways to get shroud and carpace. The broken Necro builds can easily build these passively.

> It needs to be a balance. Because shroud is also defense, limiting the passive and reactive sources would result in focusing the necro always before they can build any shroud for an easy kill.

 

you can introduce reactive ways of gaining shroud too, as it is now you flop 5 marks and to even do anything you get ez 15% lifeforce.

you dodge em? dont matter still 15% lifeforce, ez 5k hp Clap.

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > > Necro just needs to force more active ways to get shroud and carpace. The broken Necro builds can easily build these passively.

> > It needs to be a balance. Because shroud is also defense, limiting the passive and reactive sources would result in focusing the necro always before they can build any shroud for an easy kill.

>

> you can introduce reactive ways of gaining shroud too, as it is now you flop 5 marks and to even do anything you get ez 15% lifeforce.

> you dodge em? dont matter still 15% lifeforce, ez 5k hp Clap.

So - based on that math - shroud has 33k life force ... interesting.

 

100% / 15% = 6,67 ... x 5k = 33,34k

 

If you still did not get it: 15% is 2 to 3k life force (and not hp).

 

We can call life force "hp" any day when you accept that the hp of your class degenerate too and you lose your utility skill bar half of the fight. While we are on it: we have to call your blocks and evades "hp" too then since necros don't have that kind of sustain.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > > @"Faux Play.6104" said:

> > > > Necro just needs to force more active ways to get shroud and carpace. The broken Necro builds can easily build these passively.

> > > It needs to be a balance. Because shroud is also defense, limiting the passive and reactive sources would result in focusing the necro always before they can build any shroud for an easy kill.

> >

> > you can introduce reactive ways of gaining shroud too, as it is now you flop 5 marks and to even do anything you get ez 15% lifeforce.

> > you dodge em? dont matter still 15% lifeforce, ez 5k hp Clap.

> So - based on that math - shroud has 33k life force ... interesting.

>

> 100% / 15% = 6,67 ... x 5k = 33,34k

>

> If you still did not get it: 15% is 2 to 3k life force (and not hp).

>

> We can call life force "hp" any day when you accept that the hp of your class degenerate too and you lose your utility skill bar half of the fight. While we are on it: we have to call your blocks and evades "hp" too then since necros don't have that kind of sustain.

 

AH, you are one of the necro mains that doesnt even know you take 50% less damage in shroud from all sources.

now you know!

you dodge nothing = you get nothing

you use shroud = you get hp, you can get hit now, in 5s or in 15s.

evades -> reactive, takes fast reaction, prediction and understanding of enemy class ( knowing what to dodge )

shroud -> use it, you have it.0 brain cells, 0 understanding of anything, 0 anything. you get big fat shield and there is only 1 thing that can stop it, moa.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Eurantien.4632" said:

> Can you imagine being a dev and seeing stuff like this and earth shield nerfs, while ranger is out there apparently slaughtering everything it sees (ESPECIALLY necro), and wondering how to balance the game?

 

This is there job they created those skills. They should absolutely know how to nerf and or balance what they created. It's not real magic it's math and programing they created so it really shouldn't be that hard to pick it apart and nerf in the correct places.

[Kinken.8564]

I'm dog at PvP in this game but you know I just grabbed condi base necro and easily 1v5'd who actually thinks this is balanced?

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> you get big fat shield and there is only 1 thing that can stop it, moa.

 

Their shroud-on-death trait works while moa'd.

[Oslaf Beinir.5842]

The new trend around here seems to be cry like babies until we get our way instead of getting better at the game.

It's very humorous.

[Leonidrex.5649]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Leonidrex.5649" said:

> > you get big fat shield and there is only 1 thing that can stop it, moa.

>

> Their shroud-on-death trait works while moa'd.

 

i know :D

they have a counter to the counter

at least it has big 30s cooldown to play around

[Fantasylife.7981]

> @"Oslaf Beinir.5842" said:

> The new trend around here seems to be cry like babies until we get our way instead of getting better at the game.

> It's very humorous.

 

thats all I know, but the plot twist I'm a plat 2 player whos already gud :# YIKERS

[Oslaf Beinir.5842]

> @"Fantasylife.7981" said:

> > @"Oslaf Beinir.5842" said:

> > The new trend around here seems to be cry like babies until we get our way instead of getting better at the game.

> > It's very humorous.

>

> thats all I know, but the plot twist I'm a plat 2 player whos already gud :# YIKERS

 

Who has done nothing more than complain for most of his time on the forum.

Oh please flaunt dat credibility some more

 

[Axl.8924]

And this is why i don't want to play much SPVP, since the pvp in this game is a joke.

 

People cry about things that might not be op and gets it gutted because they won't l2p.

 

Some classes did need nerfs(Yes core necro was overtuned a bit and excessive with lich doing so much damage and having so much sustain)

 

 

[Luthan.5236]

While the extended life bar in shroud is annoying I find the Scourge spec harder to fight. Haven't played those necro specs myself yet and not that many enemies play it - so it is hardre to learn to fight it. Also lots of people don't seem to talk about this one. Since I like to stay mid range I find it annoying that they have a crapload of conditions and can spam their red circles on the whole capture point making it impossible to move in there. (Since ein 1-2 seconds your health is halved.) They seem to constantly spam the AoE circles.

 

I prefer fighting the other necros (core or reaper) who - at leas tin 5 vs. 5. - are dealing damage less quick. They die slower but you can allow for a few mistakes while fighting them without being insta downed. With a few CC they can be controled and I mean once an ally joins 2 vs. 1 focusing them they go down easy. Just gets annoying if they fight with an ally and you don't kill them quick cause of their downed skills (health stealing) or if the ally heals them while they fear you away with your downed skill. Not a big deal for my since I use "safe stomp" skills.

 

In the 2 vs 2 ... I don't know ... CC and conditions seem a big thing. When I get killed and the damage stats top list shows 19k and 13k as the 2 top condition skill that down me fast I'm tempted to switch to lots of condition removal. But what if they pop conditions faster than you can remove them and if you can't bring a lot of stunbreak or other important stuff anymore cause you'd need to tailor everything around condi remove? (I mean not everyone is playing classes that get easy automatic condition remove over time just by traits.)

 

I'd say it is all okay in the "bigger" teams (5 vs. 5) but in 2 vs.2 the game just relies on you to much on changing builds dependin on the specific enemy build you fight. I am too lazy to change the build every match when I just want to fight. (Variation in the team with bigger teams negate those individual strenghts if your own team might have a build hard to counter ... or having a build that counters the specifig enemy players. Changes are higher that this happens automatically with more players in the team.)