Swagger.1459 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > Also, wvw is a zone primarily built for team-based mass combat to occur, but somehow you seem to have missed that memo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What memo? It's "designed for team-based mass combat" as much as it is for smallscale/solo roaming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What what wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > > > > > > Change the second "what" typo to "was" and there ya go... > > > > > > What was wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > As close to an open world pvp experience as possible? Not sure what's your point here. > > > > That it? Just an “open world pvp experience”? Are you aware of the intended design differences between wvw and spvp? > > Yes -for one, spvp is nowhere near open world pvp experience and is obviously much more limiting than wvw. Instead of asking pretty much the same question over and over again, maybe get to the point. If you have one. > And it would be nice for you to drop spvp as it's in no way relevant. Whatever you're trying to say here, comparisons to spvp won't make a valid point. WvW was modeled after/drew inspiration from an RvR game called Dark Age of Camelot. That "RvR" is "Realm vs Realm". Realm vs Realm here is a "MIst War" with pvp combat on an epic scale that is offered across 5 large maps where hundreds of players can fight it out over objectives and stuff... No were have the devs ever said that wvw balancing will factor in 1v1 duel results or make extra balance considerations just for roamers or scouts. Spvp (ya know structured pvp) is a controlled pvp environment that was designed for very small scale e-sports pvp play. And yes, the balance and gears in spvp have been different for fairer e-sports competition balancing reasons... So you tell me where the devs should balance professions more for 1v1... Our RvR "Mist War" pvp mode on an epic scale where hundreds of players duke it out over objectives across many maps? Or inside of spvp that primarily runs 5v5 matches and most fights happen over small circles up to 500 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > snips to suggest they can't balance for both large and small scale engagements is false, since the builds mostly use different traits and gear. the fact that its all pve gear is what compounds any problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Why nerf sustain when other classes can do the same but also with damage? Guardian anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exzen.2976 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Yeah, this really isn't anything special. Low damage bunker builds winning by attrition over a few minutes are common in many classes. If people overcommit, then sure, you can kill stuff. But then, if people do something wrong against any build, they can be killed. Just chain CC or walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"Axl.8924" said: > Why nerf sustain when other classes can do the same but also with damage? Guardian anybody? Agreed man. Btw we're considered an attrition class right, so I guess that's what's going on here. Its aweful for them that they couldn't clean you up as fast as before Eremite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero.3871 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"EremiteAngel.9765" said: > Hello...speed up the video to prevent boredom... > > Cheap Necro Build: > - Forces shock down on top 5 PvP Ranker... > - Forces a very skilled thief who outplayed me totally but ended up disengaging at low HP > - Fights 1 vs 3 against skilled opponents > > Verdict: Please nerf Necro sustain ^_^ > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZLAuhGp9f4 so finally i just watched your first 2 fights, and what i see is that you build a tank build that couldnt ez killed 1 v1 but also has 0 killpressure to the firebrand, and also no kill pressure to the thief that has mobility advantage and used it in the end. you were never able to kill anyone of them. sounds like balanced design... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > Also, wvw is a zone primarily built for team-based mass combat to occur, but somehow you seem to have missed that memo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What memo? It's "designed for team-based mass combat" as much as it is for smallscale/solo roaming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What what wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > > > > > > > > Change the second "what" typo to "was" and there ya go... > > > > > > > > What was wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > As close to an open world pvp experience as possible? Not sure what's your point here. > > > > > > That it? Just an “open world pvp experience”? Are you aware of the intended design differences between wvw and spvp? > > > > Yes -for one, spvp is nowhere near open world pvp experience and is obviously much more limiting than wvw. Instead of asking pretty much the same question over and over again, maybe get to the point. If you have one. > > And it would be nice for you to drop spvp as it's in no way relevant. Whatever you're trying to say here, comparisons to spvp won't make a valid point. > > WvW was modeled after/drew inspiration from an RvR game called Dark Age of Camelot. That "RvR" is "Realm vs Realm". Realm vs Realm here is a "MIst War" with pvp combat on an epic scale that is offered across 5 large maps where hundreds of players can fight it out over objectives and stuff... No were have the devs ever said that wvw balancing will factor in 1v1 duel results or make extra balance considerations just for roamers or scouts. Spvp (ya know structured pvp) is a controlled pvp environment that was designed for very small scale e-sports pvp play. And yes, the balance and gears in spvp have been different for fairer e-sports competition balancing reasons... > > So you tell me where the devs should balance professions more for 1v1... Our RvR "Mist War" pvp mode on an epic scale where hundreds of players duke it out over objectives across many maps? Or inside of spvp that primarily runs 5v5 matches and most fights happen over small circles up to 500 points? There is no discussion "where they should *do it more*", because it makes no sense. Existance of one gamemode doesn't remove certain gameplay aspects and possibilities from the other gamemode, which is why I said -drop spvp comparisons. As @"Stand The Wall.6987" said, roaming/smallscale/zerg builds usually use different skills and traits, which is why you have no point at all if all you have is pretending that you can only balance around one playstyle in a given mode. And gw2 is its own game, not sure why you're bringing another game as an argument. Talk about the game we're playing, not the one you think it copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 The build is weak. You fought only noobs when you survived 1v3. I kill that build 1v1 in less than a minute and you won't get me below 50% health. You do not even run Snow Leopard for the ultimate sustain (then I could not kill you, but you could not even cap a sentry I am defending, so no participation for you. :)). I ran into that build endless times after the patch. 1v1 it's a freekill and in team fights it's a useless bag-leeching build. It contributes nothing. I just ignore it there, kill every other player first and then finish the dumb bunker necro. I've even whispered people (from the enemy server) to switch to minstrelbrand if they want to bunker but at least be uselful to their team, because the build is so embarrassing and useless and I would not want to be in a team with it. **Side Note:** The Ä and Ü in your name look funny for germans, because so the pronunciation of your name and esp. your guild tag sounds super silly. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkpile.7439 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Well necro is weak. Tested without signet build today and it's unplayable. Didn't even remember how bad lifeforce gain is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EremiteAngel.9765 Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > **Side Note:** The Ä and Ü in your name look funny for germans, because so the pronunciation of your name and esp. your guild tag sounds super silly. :p Curious! What does it mean or sound like in german? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > Also, wvw is a zone primarily built for team-based mass combat to occur, but somehow you seem to have missed that memo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What memo? It's "designed for team-based mass combat" as much as it is for smallscale/solo roaming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What what wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > > > > > > > > > > Change the second "what" typo to "was" and there ya go... > > > > > > > > > > What was wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > As close to an open world pvp experience as possible? Not sure what's your point here. > > > > > > > > That it? Just an “open world pvp experience”? Are you aware of the intended design differences between wvw and spvp? > > > > > > Yes -for one, spvp is nowhere near open world pvp experience and is obviously much more limiting than wvw. Instead of asking pretty much the same question over and over again, maybe get to the point. If you have one. > > > And it would be nice for you to drop spvp as it's in no way relevant. Whatever you're trying to say here, comparisons to spvp won't make a valid point. > > > > WvW was modeled after/drew inspiration from an RvR game called Dark Age of Camelot. That "RvR" is "Realm vs Realm". Realm vs Realm here is a "MIst War" with pvp combat on an epic scale that is offered across 5 large maps where hundreds of players can fight it out over objectives and stuff... No were have the devs ever said that wvw balancing will factor in 1v1 duel results or make extra balance considerations just for roamers or scouts. Spvp (ya know structured pvp) is a controlled pvp environment that was designed for very small scale e-sports pvp play. And yes, the balance and gears in spvp have been different for fairer e-sports competition balancing reasons... > > > > So you tell me where the devs should balance professions more for 1v1... Our RvR "Mist War" pvp mode on an epic scale where hundreds of players duke it out over objectives across many maps? Or inside of spvp that primarily runs 5v5 matches and most fights happen over small circles up to 500 points? > > There is no discussion "where they should *do it more*", because it makes no sense. Existance of one gamemode doesn't remove certain gameplay aspects and possibilities from the other gamemode, which is why I said -drop spvp comparisons. As @"Stand The Wall.6987" said, roaming/smallscale/zerg builds usually use different skills and traits, which is why you have no point at all if all you have is pretending that you can only balance around one playstyle in a given mode. > > And gw2 is its own game, not sure why you're bringing another game as an argument. Talk about the game we're playing, not the one you think it copies. I had to do it bc you weren’t familiar with what wvw is. And I know you may want duels to be the main focus of balancing for wvw builds, but it’s not a duel pvp game mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 You also don't take into account there are several runes and stat types that don't exist in PvP that WvW has access too and there are stat sets in PvP that are no where else in the game. Its a different game mode to pvp, its a more open world scenario so in order to do as you say they'd have to remove all the outliers and make it run on similar systems as PvP which would kill the mode because theory-craft is a big part of WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Also, wvw is a zone primarily built for team-based mass combat to occur, but somehow you seem to have missed that memo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What memo? It's "designed for team-based mass combat" as much as it is for smallscale/solo roaming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What what wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Change the second "what" typo to "was" and there ya go... > > > > > > > > > > > > What was wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > As close to an open world pvp experience as possible? Not sure what's your point here. > > > > > > > > > > That it? Just an “open world pvp experience”? Are you aware of the intended design differences between wvw and spvp? > > > > > > > > Yes -for one, spvp is nowhere near open world pvp experience and is obviously much more limiting than wvw. Instead of asking pretty much the same question over and over again, maybe get to the point. If you have one. > > > > And it would be nice for you to drop spvp as it's in no way relevant. Whatever you're trying to say here, comparisons to spvp won't make a valid point. > > > > > > WvW was modeled after/drew inspiration from an RvR game called Dark Age of Camelot. That "RvR" is "Realm vs Realm". Realm vs Realm here is a "MIst War" with pvp combat on an epic scale that is offered across 5 large maps where hundreds of players can fight it out over objectives and stuff... No were have the devs ever said that wvw balancing will factor in 1v1 duel results or make extra balance considerations just for roamers or scouts. Spvp (ya know structured pvp) is a controlled pvp environment that was designed for very small scale e-sports pvp play. And yes, the balance and gears in spvp have been different for fairer e-sports competition balancing reasons... > > > > > > So you tell me where the devs should balance professions more for 1v1... Our RvR "Mist War" pvp mode on an epic scale where hundreds of players duke it out over objectives across many maps? Or inside of spvp that primarily runs 5v5 matches and most fights happen over small circles up to 500 points? > > > > There is no discussion "where they should *do it more*", because it makes no sense. Existance of one gamemode doesn't remove certain gameplay aspects and possibilities from the other gamemode, which is why I said -drop spvp comparisons. As @"Stand The Wall.6987" said, roaming/smallscale/zerg builds usually use different skills and traits, which is why you have no point at all if all you have is pretending that you can only balance around one playstyle in a given mode. > > > > And gw2 is its own game, not sure why you're bringing another game as an argument. Talk about the game we're playing, not the one you think it copies. > > I had to do it bc you weren’t familiar with what wvw is. And I know you may want duels to be the main focus of balancing for wvw builds, but it’s not a duel pvp game mode. I was and still am familiar with what wvw is. You said nothing other than "it can't be this, because *spvp* and *another game* is that", which is a false claim at its very core. You still didn't say anything substantial. And I'm literally never dueling, so, uh... Keep shooting blanks and hoping something finally sticks I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 > @"Junkpile.7439" said: > Well necro is weak. Tested without signet build today and it's unplayable. Didn't even remember how bad lifeforce gain is. That's what I am saying to all the "nerf necro!" people in the pvp section. "Necro got buffed" ... thx for the laugh!! The increased fight duration causes extreme life force generation problems because there is a huge imbalance between damage and life force generation (both is too low) if you don't play a signet build (with speed rune if you play reaper). Reaper without speed rune (to stick to your target with that shroud auto attacks, because this is your only attack that can deal damage) and signets is weaker than ever before. Spectral Onslaught is dead and Corruption-Shroudburst (Spite+Curses) is also dead. Both builds run out of life force way to fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > @"Junkpile.7439" said: > > Well necro is weak. Tested without signet build today and it's unplayable. Didn't even remember how bad lifeforce gain is. > That's what I am saying to all the "nerf necro!" people in the pvp section. "Necro got buffed" ... thx for the laugh!! > > The increased fight duration causes extreme life force generation problems because there is a huge imbalance between damage and life force generation (both is too low) if you don't play a signet build (with speed rune if you play reaper). > > Reaper without speed rune (to stick to your target with that shroud auto attacks, because this is your only attack that can deal damage) and signets is weaker than ever before. > > Spectral Onslaught is dead and Corruption-Shroudburst (Spite+Curses) is also dead. Both builds run out of life force way to fast. > Completely agree. I'm one of those Speed rune reapers and you're spot on. I instantly opted for Spite Curses and that was really average. If anyone can link the mystery Reaper build that's being quoted as the dominator I'd be appreciative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EremiteAngel.9765 Posted March 23, 2020 Author Share Posted March 23, 2020 > @"dceptaconroy.7928" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > @"Junkpile.7439" said: > > > Well necro is weak. Tested without signet build today and it's unplayable. Didn't even remember how bad lifeforce gain is. > > That's what I am saying to all the "nerf necro!" people in the pvp section. "Necro got buffed" ... thx for the laugh!! > > > > The increased fight duration causes extreme life force generation problems because there is a huge imbalance between damage and life force generation (both is too low) if you don't play a signet build (with speed rune if you play reaper). > > > > Reaper without speed rune (to stick to your target with that shroud auto attacks, because this is your only attack that can deal damage) and signets is weaker than ever before. > > > > Spectral Onslaught is dead and Corruption-Shroudburst (Spite+Curses) is also dead. Both builds run out of life force way to fast. > > > > Completely agree. I'm one of those Speed rune reapers and you're spot on. I instantly opted for Spite Curses and that was really average. If anyone can link the mystery Reaper build that's being quoted as the dominator I'd be appreciative. I'm not sure for PvP, but in WvW, @"Azertus.3628" the Reaper King has amazing success with a signets Power Reaper build. He has slain even very good soulbeasts in duels before the patch that fixed their bugged rugged growth healing. Maybe you could whisper if him in game and check out his build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Cheers mate. More so looking at a PvP builds but I might give him a whisper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAc2FlRw0YcMPWJOuWntbA-zRJYiR3fZkZq2bVZ3JJM+D-e That's what I am running since day1 after the patch (I did run it on soldier gear before the patch, where it was also great) and it threshes bunker necro and condi revenant and is the best reaper build that ever existed for wvw. In pvp it is significantly weaker due to the signet nerfs and in this game mode I run it with berserker amulet because marauder amulet has been nerfed as well and you can get away with the lower sustain as everyone deals less damage. Every other (esp. non-signet-) reaper build is significantly weaker and not viable. So we have a huge gap in terms of build viability for the class currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSwAc2FlRw0YcMPWJOuWntbA-zRJYiR3fZkZq2bVZ3JJM+D-e > > That's what I am running since day1 after the patch (I did run it on soldier gear before the patch, where it was also great) and it threshes bunker necro and condi revenant and is the best reaper build that ever existed for wvw. > > In pvp it is significantly weaker due to the signet nerfs and in this game mode I run it with berserker amulet because marauder amulet has been nerfed as well and you can get away with the lower sustain as everyone deals less damage. > > Every other (esp. non-signet-) reaper build is significantly weaker and not viable. So we have a huge gap in terms of build viability for the class currently. Thanks Kr, that build's pretty inline with my norm. I've resisted choosing berserker but will make the change. Not enough damage otherwise, that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauzi.5892 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 Trollbuild for a troll player that can't get kitten done. But hey, at least now you don't die to an enemy Dolyaks fart anymore. Feelsgoodman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, wvw is a zone primarily built for team-based mass combat to occur, but somehow you seem to have missed that memo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What memo? It's "designed for team-based mass combat" as much as it is for smallscale/solo roaming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What what wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Change the second "what" typo to "was" and there ya go... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What was wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As close to an open world pvp experience as possible? Not sure what's your point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > That it? Just an “open world pvp experience”? Are you aware of the intended design differences between wvw and spvp? > > > > > > > > > > Yes -for one, spvp is nowhere near open world pvp experience and is obviously much more limiting than wvw. Instead of asking pretty much the same question over and over again, maybe get to the point. If you have one. > > > > > And it would be nice for you to drop spvp as it's in no way relevant. Whatever you're trying to say here, comparisons to spvp won't make a valid point. > > > > > > > > WvW was modeled after/drew inspiration from an RvR game called Dark Age of Camelot. That "RvR" is "Realm vs Realm". Realm vs Realm here is a "MIst War" with pvp combat on an epic scale that is offered across 5 large maps where hundreds of players can fight it out over objectives and stuff... No were have the devs ever said that wvw balancing will factor in 1v1 duel results or make extra balance considerations just for roamers or scouts. Spvp (ya know structured pvp) is a controlled pvp environment that was designed for very small scale e-sports pvp play. And yes, the balance and gears in spvp have been different for fairer e-sports competition balancing reasons... > > > > > > > > So you tell me where the devs should balance professions more for 1v1... Our RvR "Mist War" pvp mode on an epic scale where hundreds of players duke it out over objectives across many maps? Or inside of spvp that primarily runs 5v5 matches and most fights happen over small circles up to 500 points? > > > > > > There is no discussion "where they should *do it more*", because it makes no sense. Existance of one gamemode doesn't remove certain gameplay aspects and possibilities from the other gamemode, which is why I said -drop spvp comparisons. As @"Stand The Wall.6987" said, roaming/smallscale/zerg builds usually use different skills and traits, which is why you have no point at all if all you have is pretending that you can only balance around one playstyle in a given mode. > > > > > > And gw2 is its own game, not sure why you're bringing another game as an argument. Talk about the game we're playing, not the one you think it copies. > > > > I had to do it bc you weren’t familiar with what wvw is. And I know you may want duels to be the main focus of balancing for wvw builds, but it’s not a duel pvp game mode. > > I was and still am familiar with what wvw is. You said nothing other than "it can't be this, because *spvp* and *another game* is that", which is a false claim at its very core. You still didn't say anything substantial. > And I'm literally never dueling, so, uh... Keep shooting blanks and hoping something finally sticks I guess. Unfortunately you didn't really understand the differences between the modes, so I was helping you. An RvR mode is different than "open world pvp". And yes, the primary design purpose is to offer players mass combat "war" zones for hundreds of players duke it out on... Again the primary design purpose was to offer players a mode made for MASS COMBAT, like DAoC... and like CU... Unlike 5v5 structured pvp. And if you nerf a profession for 1v1 in wvw then you screw that profession over in mass combat play. Y'all want 1v1 balance? Load up the Heart of the Mists and complain in the spvp section about your 1v1s... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, wvw is a zone primarily built for team-based mass combat to occur, but somehow you seem to have missed that memo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What memo? It's "designed for team-based mass combat" as much as it is for smallscale/solo roaming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What what wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Change the second "what" typo to "was" and there ya go... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What was wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As close to an open world pvp experience as possible? Not sure what's your point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That it? Just an “open world pvp experience”? Are you aware of the intended design differences between wvw and spvp? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -for one, spvp is nowhere near open world pvp experience and is obviously much more limiting than wvw. Instead of asking pretty much the same question over and over again, maybe get to the point. If you have one. > > > > > > And it would be nice for you to drop spvp as it's in no way relevant. Whatever you're trying to say here, comparisons to spvp won't make a valid point. > > > > > > > > > > WvW was modeled after/drew inspiration from an RvR game called Dark Age of Camelot. That "RvR" is "Realm vs Realm". Realm vs Realm here is a "MIst War" with pvp combat on an epic scale that is offered across 5 large maps where hundreds of players can fight it out over objectives and stuff... No were have the devs ever said that wvw balancing will factor in 1v1 duel results or make extra balance considerations just for roamers or scouts. Spvp (ya know structured pvp) is a controlled pvp environment that was designed for very small scale e-sports pvp play. And yes, the balance and gears in spvp have been different for fairer e-sports competition balancing reasons... > > > > > > > > > > So you tell me where the devs should balance professions more for 1v1... Our RvR "Mist War" pvp mode on an epic scale where hundreds of players duke it out over objectives across many maps? Or inside of spvp that primarily runs 5v5 matches and most fights happen over small circles up to 500 points? > > > > > > > > There is no discussion "where they should *do it more*", because it makes no sense. Existance of one gamemode doesn't remove certain gameplay aspects and possibilities from the other gamemode, which is why I said -drop spvp comparisons. As @"Stand The Wall.6987" said, roaming/smallscale/zerg builds usually use different skills and traits, which is why you have no point at all if all you have is pretending that you can only balance around one playstyle in a given mode. > > > > > > > > And gw2 is its own game, not sure why you're bringing another game as an argument. Talk about the game we're playing, not the one you think it copies. > > > > > > I had to do it bc you weren’t familiar with what wvw is. And I know you may want duels to be the main focus of balancing for wvw builds, but it’s not a duel pvp game mode. > > > > I was and still am familiar with what wvw is. You said nothing other than "it can't be this, because *spvp* and *another game* is that", which is a false claim at its very core. You still didn't say anything substantial. > > And I'm literally never dueling, so, uh... Keep shooting blanks and hoping something finally sticks I guess. > > Unfortunately you didn't really understand the differences between the modes, so I was helping you. I did and I still do. But anything you can/can't do in pvp mode have nothing to do with what you can/can't do in wvw. Bringing up another mode here was and still is irrelevant and apparently you still fail to understand that. >An RvR mode is different than "open world pvp". I never said it's literally "open world pvp", so... Not sure why you're writing this. >Again the primary design purpose was to offer players a mode made for MASS COMBAT, like DAoC... and like CU... It's hilarious that you think a mode needs to be limited to a single "valid playstyle", but that's just obviously wrong. So you're still as wrong as you were a few days ago. >And if you nerf a profession for 1v1 in wvw then you screw that profession over in mass combat play. No. And fairly sure someone else already answered to this, but I won't bother rereading -but you probably should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidrex.5649 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 I like how the FB from the first clip would have to deal about 200k dmg within 60s to actually down you :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagger.1459 Posted March 24, 2020 Share Posted March 24, 2020 > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, wvw is a zone primarily built for team-based mass combat to occur, but somehow you seem to have missed that memo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What memo? It's "designed for team-based mass combat" as much as it is for smallscale/solo roaming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What what wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Change the second "what" typo to "was" and there ya go... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What was wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As close to an open world pvp experience as possible? Not sure what's your point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That it? Just an “open world pvp experience”? Are you aware of the intended design differences between wvw and spvp? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -for one, spvp is nowhere near open world pvp experience and is obviously much more limiting than wvw. Instead of asking pretty much the same question over and over again, maybe get to the point. If you have one. > > > > > > > And it would be nice for you to drop spvp as it's in no way relevant. Whatever you're trying to say here, comparisons to spvp won't make a valid point. > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW was modeled after/drew inspiration from an RvR game called Dark Age of Camelot. That "RvR" is "Realm vs Realm". Realm vs Realm here is a "MIst War" with pvp combat on an epic scale that is offered across 5 large maps where hundreds of players can fight it out over objectives and stuff... No were have the devs ever said that wvw balancing will factor in 1v1 duel results or make extra balance considerations just for roamers or scouts. Spvp (ya know structured pvp) is a controlled pvp environment that was designed for very small scale e-sports pvp play. And yes, the balance and gears in spvp have been different for fairer e-sports competition balancing reasons... > > > > > > > > > > > > So you tell me where the devs should balance professions more for 1v1... Our RvR "Mist War" pvp mode on an epic scale where hundreds of players duke it out over objectives across many maps? Or inside of spvp that primarily runs 5v5 matches and most fights happen over small circles up to 500 points? > > > > > > > > > > There is no discussion "where they should *do it more*", because it makes no sense. Existance of one gamemode doesn't remove certain gameplay aspects and possibilities from the other gamemode, which is why I said -drop spvp comparisons. As @"Stand The Wall.6987" said, roaming/smallscale/zerg builds usually use different skills and traits, which is why you have no point at all if all you have is pretending that you can only balance around one playstyle in a given mode. > > > > > > > > > > And gw2 is its own game, not sure why you're bringing another game as an argument. Talk about the game we're playing, not the one you think it copies. > > > > > > > > I had to do it bc you weren’t familiar with what wvw is. And I know you may want duels to be the main focus of balancing for wvw builds, but it’s not a duel pvp game mode. > > > > > > I was and still am familiar with what wvw is. You said nothing other than "it can't be this, because *spvp* and *another game* is that", which is a false claim at its very core. You still didn't say anything substantial. > > > And I'm literally never dueling, so, uh... Keep shooting blanks and hoping something finally sticks I guess. > > > > Unfortunately you didn't really understand the differences between the modes, so I was helping you. > > I did and I still do. But anything you can/can't do in pvp mode have nothing to do with what you can/can't do in wvw. Bringing up another mode here was and still is irrelevant and apparently you still fail to understand that. > > >An RvR mode is different than "open world pvp". > > I never said it's literally "open world pvp", so... Not sure why you're writing this. > > >Again the primary design purpose was to offer players a mode made for MASS COMBAT, like DAoC... and like CU... > > It's hilarious that you think a mode needs to be limited to a single "valid playstyle", but that's just obviously wrong. So you're still as wrong as you were a few days ago. > > >And if you nerf a profession for 1v1 in wvw then you screw that profession over in mass combat play. > > No. And fairly sure someone else already answered to this, but I won't bother rereading -but you probably should. What? "As close to an open world pvp experience as possible?" It's hilarious you think I wrote anything about "valid playstyle"... What do you think I'm just some zerg player? And it's hilarious you don't understand the word "primarily" either... Like you wouldn't understand it if I said spvp was primarily designed for 5v5 fairer small scale e-sports pvp competition, right? Actually yes, or don't you have any experience with our pvp modes? Yeah, nerf sustain bc of dool ppl qq and you screw over sustain for large group play inside a mode primarily designed to have huge pvp battles... No effect lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 25, 2020 Share Posted March 25, 2020 > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, wvw is a zone primarily built for team-based mass combat to occur, but somehow you seem to have missed that memo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What memo? It's "designed for team-based mass combat" as much as it is for smallscale/solo roaming. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What what wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't understand the question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Change the second "what" typo to "was" and there ya go... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What was wvw designed for to offer players? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As close to an open world pvp experience as possible? Not sure what's your point here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That it? Just an “open world pvp experience”? Are you aware of the intended design differences between wvw and spvp? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes -for one, spvp is nowhere near open world pvp experience and is obviously much more limiting than wvw. Instead of asking pretty much the same question over and over again, maybe get to the point. If you have one. > > > > > > > > And it would be nice for you to drop spvp as it's in no way relevant. Whatever you're trying to say here, comparisons to spvp won't make a valid point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WvW was modeled after/drew inspiration from an RvR game called Dark Age of Camelot. That "RvR" is "Realm vs Realm". Realm vs Realm here is a "MIst War" with pvp combat on an epic scale that is offered across 5 large maps where hundreds of players can fight it out over objectives and stuff... No were have the devs ever said that wvw balancing will factor in 1v1 duel results or make extra balance considerations just for roamers or scouts. Spvp (ya know structured pvp) is a controlled pvp environment that was designed for very small scale e-sports pvp play. And yes, the balance and gears in spvp have been different for fairer e-sports competition balancing reasons... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you tell me where the devs should balance professions more for 1v1... Our RvR "Mist War" pvp mode on an epic scale where hundreds of players duke it out over objectives across many maps? Or inside of spvp that primarily runs 5v5 matches and most fights happen over small circles up to 500 points? > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no discussion "where they should *do it more*", because it makes no sense. Existance of one gamemode doesn't remove certain gameplay aspects and possibilities from the other gamemode, which is why I said -drop spvp comparisons. As @"Stand The Wall.6987" said, roaming/smallscale/zerg builds usually use different skills and traits, which is why you have no point at all if all you have is pretending that you can only balance around one playstyle in a given mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > And gw2 is its own game, not sure why you're bringing another game as an argument. Talk about the game we're playing, not the one you think it copies. > > > > > > > > > > I had to do it bc you weren’t familiar with what wvw is. And I know you may want duels to be the main focus of balancing for wvw builds, but it’s not a duel pvp game mode. > > > > > > > > I was and still am familiar with what wvw is. You said nothing other than "it can't be this, because *spvp* and *another game* is that", which is a false claim at its very core. You still didn't say anything substantial. > > > > And I'm literally never dueling, so, uh... Keep shooting blanks and hoping something finally sticks I guess. > > > > > > Unfortunately you didn't really understand the differences between the modes, so I was helping you. > > > > I did and I still do. But anything you can/can't do in pvp mode have nothing to do with what you can/can't do in wvw. Bringing up another mode here was and still is irrelevant and apparently you still fail to understand that. > > > > >An RvR mode is different than "open world pvp". > > > > I never said it's literally "open world pvp", so... Not sure why you're writing this. > > > > >Again the primary design purpose was to offer players a mode made for MASS COMBAT, like DAoC... and like CU... > > > > It's hilarious that you think a mode needs to be limited to a single "valid playstyle", but that's just obviously wrong. So you're still as wrong as you were a few days ago. > > > > >And if you nerf a profession for 1v1 in wvw then you screw that profession over in mass combat play. > > > > No. And fairly sure someone else already answered to this, but I won't bother rereading -but you probably should. > > What? "As close to an open world pvp experience as possible?" Yup. Now understand the words you read. It's not open world pvp, but it sure is close and if you think it's not then, again, not sure what to tell you here. > It's hilarious you think I wrote anything about "valid playstyle"... What do you think I'm just some zerg player? And it's hilarious you don't understand the word "primarily" either... Like you wouldn't understand it if I said spvp was primarily designed for 5v5 fairer small scale e-sports pvp competition, right? So if you understand that it's not designed solely for that, then not sure what you're talking at all Arguing that it doesn't matter, because it's not designed for it, but now you claim you don't say it's not designed for it. You used "primarily" based on nothing else than your personal preference/opinion -if multiple playstyles are valid/viable/in line with the design of the mode (because they are), then your claims that it's "primarily for this one" are pointless. Not to mention we've seen many changes influencing specifically roaming/small scale builds. > Actually yes, or don't you have any experience with our pvp modes? Actually no and bringing pvp mode into this is still as irrelevant as it was before. pvp mode in no way shapes or influences wvw mode, no matter how many times you'll try to repeat BUT PEEVEEPEEE -nope, still irrelevant. 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