Node distribution and economy balance

[Tekoneiric.6817]

One thing that has never made sense to me in the game is how they do the material and nodes. The devs keep doing the same thing over and over with new maps; only putting mithril, ori, elderwood and ancient wood nodes on them along with a few plant nodes.

 

Iron is one of the most abundant metals in the universe yet in GW2 it's almost rare. Mithril and ori should be way more rare than it is. Their over abundance along with elderwood has crashed their price on the TP. Of course orichalcum is an alloy not a element so there shouldn't be nodes for it. It should be crafted and salvaged not mined.

 

One thing that bugs me is getting hardwood from pine. Whoever thought of that one needs to study dendrology or even carpentry. If they wanted to rebalance the economy they could easily do it by correcting distribution of nodes throughout the maps.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

Iron rare? You can find it in any map in the level range of 15 to 60. If I'm not mistaken that's 12 maps where you can farm iron. When I take a character for a run along all the rich iron veins I usually end up with more than a full stack of ore. Granted, I also farm the nearby nodes that appear on the minimap and use the guild gathering buff (which doesn't really give a lot of benefit, but every little bit helps; using a gathering boost on top of that really makes a difference, though). But still, even without buffs there is plenty of iron to farm in open maps.

 

Nodes are tied to the level of the map. The reason there's so much mithril to farm is because it's a level 70-80 map node and by now there are a lot of those maps. It's also the reason why orichalcum has become more common, even though you will still only find a handful of nodes on any map (the return of rich orichalcum nodes has helped). And ore isn't an alloy. An alloy is a micture of metals. Metals need to be mined and that is what we do. We refine it but technically only steel and darksteel ingots are alloys, because a second ingredient is needed to refine it. If by your reasoning orichalcum shouldn't be mined but salvaged, than this should be the case for all the ores.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

> Iron rare? You can find it in any map in the level range of 15 to 60. If I'm not mistaken that's 12 maps where you can farm iron. When I take a character for a run along all the rich iron veins I usually end up with more than a full stack of ore. Granted, I also farm the nearby nodes that appear on the minimap and use the guild gathering buff (which doesn't really give a lot of benefit, but every little bit helps; using a gathering boost on top of that really makes a difference, though). But still, even without buffs there is plenty of iron to farm in open maps.

>

> Nodes are tied to the level of the map. The reason there's so much mithril to farm is because it's a level 70-80 map node and by now there are a lot of those maps. It's also the reason why orichalcum has become more common, even though you will still only find a handful of nodes on any map (the return of rich orichalcum nodes has helped). And ore isn't an alloy. An alloy is a micture of metals. Metals need to be mined and that is what we do. We refine it but technically only steel and darksteel ingots are alloys, because a second ingredient is needed to refine it. If by your reasoning orichalcum shouldn't be mined but salvaged, than this should be the case for all the ores.

 

Orichalcum is an alloy. They took the word from an ancient metal alloy mention in writings about Atlantis. From Wikipedia **"Orichalcum has been held to be a gold/copper alloy, a copper-tin or copper-zinc brass, or a metal no longer known. "** The exact mixture of the alloy isn't known but there are some artifacts that are made of it. It's not an element but a mixture of metals that themselves are mined, refined then melted together into an alloy. I know Iron isn't rare in the game but it's more rare than it should be. It should be on more maps than it is.

 

Mithril is a **rare** fictional metal mentioned in the writings of J. R. R. Tolkien. By the name "Elderwood" I assume to mean an old growth wood should be rare due to the level of development of civilization in the game and it along with ancient wood (assuming dead old growth wood) should only found on the most remote areas. Old growth wood tends to be depleted quickly by settlements using it for large construction beams leaving young growth in abundance.

 

I know it's a game but games and other forms of entertainment teach and should at least strive for some level of accuracy on the elements of the story derived from real world things or be consistent with things from other fictional properties. To many entertainment mediums put out bad info which teaches the wrong thing to it's target audience. A good example is how so many people "know" that before Columbus everyone thought the world was flat which is false; in reality everyone with knew it was round. It was a historical inaccuracy perpetrated by a series of writers and taught to the masses as fact.

 

[Tekoneiric.6817]

My partner also reminded me about the plants nodes growing on icebergs in Frostgorge Sound which would not happen.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

> One thing that has never made sense to me in the game is how they do the material and nodes. The devs keep doing the same thing over and over with new maps; only putting mithril, ori, elderwood and ancient wood nodes on them along with a few plant nodes.

>

> Iron is one of the most abundant metals in the universe yet in GW2 it's almost rare. Mithril and ori should be way more rare than it is. Their over abundance along with elderwood has crashed their price on the TP. Of course orichalcum is an alloy not a element so there shouldn't be nodes for it. It should be crafted and salvaged not mined.

>

> One thing that bugs me is getting hardwood from pine. Whoever thought of that one needs to study dendrology or even carpentry. If they wanted to rebalance the economy they could easily do it by correcting distribution of nodes throughout the maps.

 

You're comparing our universe to Tyria and there's only the illusion of similarity.

* A single herb can drop vanilla or chili (depending on region) or garlic or pepper (not depending).

* Burning things don't ignite nearby flammables.

* There are unlimited tools

* Bows and pistols don't require ammo.

* You can reverse direction mid-air without applying force

 

Tyria's laws of physics, chemistry, animal and plant husbandry, and well, pretty much nothing is as it is on Earth except in name.

 

[Boysenberry.1869]

For whatever reason Anet doesn't seem to want to break from the material levels that they created. All level 80 maps will have the highest rated materials. Maybe they think it is easier for players to find if they know what level range they need to visit to get the materials they need? Or it could just be a way of making players return to lower level maps for the other materials. It would be kind neat to see at least one map with all variety of things to gather.

[Vash.2386]

I've always found getting nutmegs while logging a cherry sapling kinda odd.

[Zaron.1987]

> @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

> My partner also reminded me about the plants nodes growing on icebergs in Frostgorge Sound which would not happen.

 

We are also riding on big bunnies and wearing almost nothing while fight big creatures.

 

 

Its a Fantasy Game!

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> You're comparing our universe to Tyria and there's only the illusion of similarity.

> * A single herb can drop vanilla or chili (depending on region) or garlic or pepper (not depending).

> * Burning things don't ignite nearby flammables.

> * There are unlimited tools

> * Bows and pistols don't require ammo.

> * You can reverse direction mid-air without applying force

>

> Tyria's laws of physics, chemistry, animal and plant husbandry, and well, pretty much nothing is as it is on Earth except in name.

>

 

I see it as an obligation of content creators to get known real world things correct if for anything as a means to teach. There is always times to teach even in a fictional story or environment.

 

It's just strange that a single herb can drop multiple unrelated produce.

 

The burning things I don't get because in some places in Tyria you can get burned, other places not. They lack consistency on that.

 

Real world tools are all but unlimited; just requiring maintenance or sharpening on some.

 

Given a universe of magic it makes sense for magical weapons to create magical ammo and projectiles as part of their enchantment.

 

You can change direction in the air; not in a vacuum but in air you can because you can control your direction because the air acts like a fluid as it's compressed over a moving body. Limbs can act as control surfaces; not as good as larger surfaces like wings. A falling person can slow their fall a bit by spreading out to create more drag or speed up by pulling their arms in. Watch this video of an expert in an indoor skydiving chamber.

 

[Cyninja.2954]

You really shouldn't try to stick to this line of argument about Tyria not properly relating to the real world. It's nonsensical in the context of a fictional world as well as a video game.

 

It would make more sense to stick to the argument that maybe it would be good to have more than just mithril and ori nodes get added in new maps as far as economic balance is concerned. That's something that can get disscussed at least.

 

Your subjective expectations of how Tyria should be will ultimately always differ with how other people feel about it. There is no point in debating subjective expectations.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @Cyninja.2954 said:

> You really shouldn't try to stick to this line of argument about Tyria not properly relating to the real world. It's nonsensical in the context of a fictional world as well as a video game.

>

> It would make more sense to stick to the argument that maybe it would be good to have more than just mithril and ori nodes get added in new maps as far as economic balance is concerned. That's something that can get disscussed at least.

>

> Your subjective expectations of how Tyria should be will ultimately always differ with how other people feel about it. There is no point in debating subjective expectations.

 

It may be fictional but there is always time to teach, even passively.

 

As far as the world balance; given how many maps have been added to the game in the over the last year and a few months I would expect as many would be added with LWS4 and the next expansion. Are they all going to include only mithril, orichalcum, elderwood and ancient wood? There are 18 maps that have them exclusively and Mount Maelstrom has a mix. Add an estimated 11 more for LWS4 and the next expansion; that's 29 maps with just those on it. How long before that really starts cutting into the game economy?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> I see it as an obligation of content creators to get known real world things correct if for anything as a means to teach.

 

I think you are entitled to expect such things however game developer is in no way responsible to respect your expectations. I read your opening message and your expectations are clear to me and I would like you to know that I know where you are coming from. However I think it is unreasonable to expect fantasy world to follow real world rules in terms of physics.

 

That being said, if you have any scientific sources of Earth origin about elder dragons and potential cataclysm caused by magic overload on Earth I am more than interested in reading about it.

[Bunter.3795]

Another and probably the biggest reason they don't put platinum, iron or even copper on the new maps is that if they did, who would go to the core maps? By keeping it the materials that are level appropriate (according to Anet) they force us to either go back to the core maps or buy the mats from those maps. I don't see a problem with that as it keeps all maps somewhat active.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > I see it as an obligation of content creators to get known real world things correct if for anything as a means to teach.

>

> I think you are entitled to expect such things however game developer is in no way responsible to respect your expectations. I read your opening message and your expectations are clear to me and I would like you to know that I know where you are coming from. However I think it is unreasonable to expect fantasy world to follow real world rules in terms of physics.

>

> That being said, if you have any scientific sources of Earth origin about elder dragons and potential cataclysm caused by magic overload on Earth I am more than interested in reading about it.

 

Yes, it is a fantasy game which includes fantasy elements such as dragons however the real story elements such as wood, plant and minerals should be correct. As incorrect as many are in the game I wouldn't be surprised to get bananas or chunks of red meat from an oak tree.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> > > I see it as an obligation of content creators to get known real world things correct if for anything as a means to teach.

> >

> > I think you are entitled to expect such things however game developer is in no way responsible to respect your expectations. I read your opening message and your expectations are clear to me and I would like you to know that I know where you are coming from. However I think it is unreasonable to expect fantasy world to follow real world rules in terms of physics.

> >

> > That being said, if you have any scientific sources of Earth origin about elder dragons and potential cataclysm caused by magic overload on Earth I am more than interested in reading about it.

>

> Yes, it is a fantasy game which includes fantasy elements such as dragons however the real story elements such as wood, plant and minerals should be correct. As incorrect as many are in the game I wouldn't be surprised to get bananas or chunks of red meat from an oak tree.

 

This is absolutely to be expected if this is how world creator wants this to be in his universe. Personally, it would be amusing, but that's world creator right to set rules on his own terms and ideas.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

 

> This is absolutely to be expected if this is how world creator wants this to be in his universe. Personally, it would be amusing, but that's world creator right to set rules on his own terms and ideas.

 

I wouldn't bother me if it was for whimsy or comedy sake but the game is more fantasy drama with some comical elements.

 

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

> > @Kheldorn.5123 said:

>

> > This is absolutely to be expected if this is how world creator wants this to be in his universe. Personally, it would be amusing, but that's world creator right to set rules on his own terms and ideas.

>

> I wouldn't bother me if it was for whimsy or comedy sake but the game is more fantasy drama with some comical elements.

>

 

I would be more concerned about people gliding on meteors then.

 

If I shared your point of view, your concerns would be easily explained that even if we are talking about same materials as we have on Earth, their presence and rarity on Tyria can always be different than what we know on our planet. Just like in solar system, different planets consist of different proportions of elements in their atmospheres.

[Veprovina.4876]

https://gw2efficiency.com/gathering/permanent-nodes

 

Here. Farm twice and you'll have more ore than you know what to do with. There's plenty of nodes in central tyria you can farm.

What i would like to see is some iron, copper, platinum etc. from salvaging. I'm swimming in mithril and i can't spend it. Selling it on TP is worthless too cause everyone has too much.

 

We need leather!

Lol.

[Tekoneiric.6817]

> @Veprovina.4876 said:

> https://gw2efficiency.com/gathering/permanent-nodes

>

> Here. Farm twice and you'll have more ore than you know what to do with. There's plenty of nodes in central tyria you can farm.

> What i would like to see is some iron, copper, platinum etc. from salvaging. I'm swimming in mithril and i can't spend it. Selling it on TP is worthless too cause everyone has too much.

>

> We need leather!

> Lol.

 

Good link, I'm saving it. :)

 

Yea, we need more leather. They could balance the economy from salvaging alone. They could do that with a program running on the server that looks at the TP and adjusts salvage output to compensate for gluts of specific materials. I still think they need to rethink where they put nodes even if it's only on maps they are developing now and in the future. They could do some universal sapling and mineral nodes on future maps that output based on the needs of the game economy.

[Veprovina.4876]

> @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

> > @Veprovina.4876 said:

> > https://gw2efficiency.com/gathering/permanent-nodes

> >

> > Here. Farm twice and you'll have more ore than you know what to do with. There's plenty of nodes in central tyria you can farm.

> > What i would like to see is some iron, copper, platinum etc. from salvaging. I'm swimming in mithril and i can't spend it. Selling it on TP is worthless too cause everyone has too much.

> >

> > We need leather!

> > Lol.

>

> Good link, I'm saving it. :)

>

> Yea, we need more leather. They could balance the economy from salvaging alone. They could do that with a program running on the server that looks at the TP and adjusts salvage output to compensate for gluts of specific materials. I still think they need to rethink where they put nodes even if it's only on maps they are developing now and in the future. They could do some universal sapling and mineral nodes on future maps that output based on the needs of the game economy.

 

No problem, enjoy. I use that route when i farm for my materials and really, there's no shortage of iron or lower tier metals. For iron and platinum run, it takes about half an hour, depending on how lazy you are. Sometimes less. And sometimes there's other normal random nodes around the rich one so you get sidetracked but end up with way more materials than you though.

 

But yes, leather is a problem. I'm doing everything i can to get leather from anywhere, and the dumbest thing is, i salvage a leather chest piece or something and i get mitril out of it. I mean, seriously? Wtf...

 

So yes, some algorithm that monitors the amount of each material in circulation and adjusts salvage results accordingly is actually a good idea.

I mean, not that it should give you leather from salvaging an iron sword, but any leather would be nice. I don't get why this is such a luxury. Can't we hunt deer and skin them like everyone else? Why is leather a problem? It's literally everywhere yet you don't get any from salvaging.

[TheNecrosanct.4028]

> @Tekoneiric.6817 said:

> > @TheNecrosanct.4028 said:

> >

>

> Orichalcum is an alloy. They took the word from an ancient metal alloy mention in writings about Atlantis. From Wikipedia **"Orichalcum has been held to be a gold/copper alloy, a copper-tin or copper-zinc brass, or a metal no longer known. "** The exact mixture of the alloy isn't known but there are some artifacts that are made of it. It's not an element but a mixture of metals that themselves are mined, refined then melted together into an alloy. I know Iron isn't rare in the game but it's more rare than it should be. It should be on more maps than it is.

>

> Mithril is a **rare** fictional metal mentioned in the writings of J. R. R. Tolkien. By the name "Elderwood" I assume to mean an old growth wood should be rare due to the level of development of civilization in the game and it along with ancient wood (assuming dead old growth wood) should only found on the most remote areas. Old growth wood tends to be depleted quickly by settlements using it for large construction beams leaving young growth in abundance.

>

> I know it's a game but games and other forms of entertainment teach and should at least strive for some level of accuracy on the elements of the story derived from real world things or be consistent with things from other fictional properties. To many entertainment mediums put out bad info which teaches the wrong thing to it's target audience. A good example is how so many people "know" that before Columbus everyone thought the world was flat which is false; in reality everyone with knew it was round. It was a historical inaccuracy perpetrated by a series of writers and taught to the masses as fact.

>

 

You're mixing up things. Mithril is rare in Middle Earth. Tyria isn't Middle Earth, and the word comes back in many fantasy universes. As for orichalcum, everything we know about it is assumed. In fact, you're referring to Plato's "Critias". By his time, orichalcum was already nothing more than a word and even they didn't know how it was made. There are several theories but no facts surrounding orichalcum. And besides, your source is the writing on the fictional island of Atlantis. Again, hardly fact. In Tyria, orichalcum is an ore and we mine it. Besides, Plato also states orichalcum was mined on Atlantis. So it was either called orichalcum even before it was mixed up with other metals, or that mixture occurred naturally. But I would't take the word of a man who admitted that orichalcum was no more than a word by his time and knowledge about it was mostly lost. Even to this day, facts regarding orichalcum are highly debated among scientists.

 

A game's purpose isn't to educate but to entertain. Sure, developers can put educational aspects into their game, but are by no means supposed to. And if you do such a thing in a fantasy game it blurs the lines. How are you supposed to know what is inspired by real facts and what is pure fantasy? You can't, unless the game breaks the fourth wall and tells you, or unless some developer explains it on a third party source. People play games for the purpose of entertainment, to get away from real life things and delve into a world of fantasy. Fantasy universes often don't have any references to the real world, in fact.

 

"Games and other forms of entertainment should at least strive for some level of accuracy on the elementals of the story derived from real world things or be consistent with this from other fictional properties". That is just your opinion. It's not a fact and certainly not a rule. A lot of fantasy has been inspired by other sources (J.R.R. Tolkien not in the least) but inspiration isn't copying. If we were to stick by these rules, all Elves in fantasy would be like Tolkien's Elves. Tolkien himself was inspired too, by real world mythology, legends, languages and cultures. But he didn't copy them into his stories, he used them as inspiration for his own mythological creations and made it his own. We see the similarities but recognize they are not carbon copies of the real world thing. I'm sorry this game doesn't meet your expectations in this regard, but that's just the way it is for the majority of fantasy universes.

[Ayrilana.1396]

Is it really that difficult to go back to previous maps within the level range that has iron ore? Or any other lower tier node?

[GrubySzymek.1362]

I mean 1 onion is worth more than 1 gold ore in Tyria.

[Rauderi.8706]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> I mean 1 onion is worth more than 1 gold ore in Tyria.

 

So, by OP's logic, we should be able to buy all that gold and silver for cheap and smelt our own coins with it! :+1:

Then we go to a black market specialist in Lion's Arch, where there is a chance a Legendary Investigator shows up and rakes us over the coals for forgery.

 

Granted, it'd be nice to have proper sinks for many of these flagging materials. The Zephyrite events were a great way to do it. Trade in a bunch of stuff to get some special currency. Then that currency turns around and gets used for something else, like skins or even crates like the ones in PoF. Example: turn in 250 silk for a crate that gives 50 random T3-4 cloth. Market prices for the most common stuff buoy, and we stop having to have recipes that take 5000 elder wood (probably literally) because acquiring it is so easy.

[Ardent Heretic.8216]

> @Kheldorn.5123 said:

> I mean 1 onion is worth more than 1 gold ore in Tyria.

 

Economically speaking, this makes perfect sense within the rules of the world we're presented with. Gold is not as rare in Tyria. It an be found by many people in many areas and "grows" back within a day. These onions cannot be farmed the way they are on Earth, and they are found in much the same way gold is, but they are found fewer places with less consistency (as each node _might_ have a single onion rather than a guarantee of three ore). This relative scarcity is a large part of what drives the market value.