apharma.3741 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 I think what people mean by perma condi cleanse on DrD is this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist%27s_Fortitude#WvW.2CPvP It certainly hard counters a lot of condi builds. Whether that's a good or a bad thing I leave it up to you guys to discuss but it's certainly very strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluri.2653 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > Since you mentioned Thief in HoT (DrD by default)... You have near perma condi cleanse, cannot be rooted, cannot be bursted cuz your stun breaks are conveniently the MUST HAVE utilities. Well then... And what did drd achieve in hot by having all of those things? It wasnt played for any major tournament for whole HoT. But it had everything you said yet wasnt played! We are basically at that stage rn for thief, exact same position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"apharma.3741" said: > I think what people mean by perma condi cleanse on DrD is this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist%27s_Fortitude#WvW.2CPvP > > It certainly hard counters a lot of condi builds. Whether that's a good or a bad thing I leave it up to you guys to discuss but it's certainly very strong. It's the combo of escapist fortitude and the grandmaster elite mid. You cleanse all debilitating condi and then further clear damaging ones, at the cost of a measly 2-4 secs exhaustion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"bluri.2653" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > Since you mentioned Thief in HoT (DrD by default)... You have near perma condi cleanse, cannot be rooted, cannot be bursted cuz your stun breaks are conveniently the MUST HAVE utilities. Well then... > > And what did drd achieve in hot near the end by having all of those things? It wasnt played for any major tournament for whole HoT. > But it had everything you said yet wasnt played! > > We are basically at that stage rn for thief, exact same position. Yes we're in the same situation, but for Mesmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluri.2653 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > > > Since you mentioned Thief in HoT (DrD by default)... You have near perma condi cleanse, cannot be rooted, cannot be bursted cuz your stun breaks are conveniently the MUST HAVE utilities. Well then... > > > > And what did drd achieve in hot near the end by having all of those things? It wasnt played for any major tournament for whole HoT. > > But it had everything you said yet wasnt played! > > > > We are basically at that stage rn for thief, exact same position. > > Yes we're in the same situation, but for Mesmer. Mesmer is for sure better than thief rn, the boonrip is amazing vs protholo + portal. Optimal comp id say rn at least for some matches would be 2x power rev fb/tempest(depending on map) and mirage+protholo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluri.2653 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > You focus on what you see on Na but you dont focus on how little the thieves achieved in the games. You could have dropped thief in a second over a rev for example without a problem lmao > > There are a couple of problems: > > 1. Tanky braindead specs on necro, rev etc (trust me, I also feel I do bad damage on powermes in this meta), making the game slow and making it hard to +1. > 2. Offensive lines not giving enough compared to defensive lines. A build with daredevil, shadowarts, trickery should not do super high levels of damage (because you are running one mobility line, one sustain line and one utility line). However a build with deadlyarts and critstrikes probably should. > 3. This is more of a personal remark: I am not a good thief but I doubt that shadow portal isn't worth taking once you learn to use it to move your slower teammates around for example. The problem is that deadly arts / crit strikes does barely more damage than SA atm after the balance patch. If i drop SA for DA i crit 600 more on a heavy golem at this point. Not to mention if you want to frontload all your damage to be a burst spec you'd go da/tr/drd and drop agi signet and go sin signet and dodge 3 times before opening, which means at this point u have no evades after ur spike which makes u vulnerable. And at best here you'll do like 1.5k~ more damage than SA. I don't want thief to be buffed, we had this issue in HoT and i'd say its the "bunkers" that are too tanky atm. Tank rev Tank nec Prot holo SLB variants Prolly others forgotten, but I also don't want them to absolutely hammer these "tanks" i rather have them slowly tweak them down, little by little until they hit that sweet spot. And i don't run shadow portal, don't find it good personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"bluri.2653" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > > > You focus on what you see on Na but you dont focus on how little the thieves achieved in the games. You could have dropped thief in a second over a rev for example without a problem lmao > > > > There are a couple of problems: > > > > 1. Tanky braindead specs on necro, rev etc (trust me, I also feel I do bad damage on powermes in this meta), making the game slow and making it hard to +1. > > 2. Offensive lines not giving enough compared to defensive lines. A build with daredevil, shadowarts, trickery should not do super high levels of damage (because you are running one mobility line, one sustain line and one utility line). However a build with deadlyarts and critstrikes probably should. > > 3. This is more of a personal remark: I am not a good thief but I doubt that shadow portal isn't worth taking once you learn to use it to move your slower teammates around for example. > > The problem is that deadly arts / crit strikes does barely more damage than SA atm after the balance patch. If i drop SA for DA i crit 600 more on a heavy golem at this point. > Not to mention if you want to frontload all your damage to be a burst spec you'd go da/tr/drd and drop agi signet and go sin signet and dodge 3 times before opening, which means at this point u have no evades after ur spike which makes u vulnerable. And at best here you'll do like 1.5k~ more damage than SA. > > I don't want thief to be buffed, we had this issue in HoT and i'd say its the "bunkers" that are too tanky atm. > Tank rev > Tank nec > Prot holo > SLB variants > > Prolly others forgotten, but I also don't want them to absolutely hammer these "tanks" i rather have them slowly tweak them down, little by little until they hit that sweet spot. > > And i don't run shadow portal, don't find it good personally Congratulations, you reached the understanding we all got nerfed. What else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > > > > > You focus on what you see on Na but you dont focus on how little the thieves achieved in the games. You could have dropped thief in a second over a rev for example without a problem lmao > > > > > > There are a couple of problems: > > > > > > 1. Tanky braindead specs on necro, rev etc (trust me, I also feel I do bad damage on powermes in this meta), making the game slow and making it hard to +1. > > > 2. Offensive lines not giving enough compared to defensive lines. A build with daredevil, shadowarts, trickery should not do super high levels of damage (because you are running one mobility line, one sustain line and one utility line). However a build with deadlyarts and critstrikes probably should. > > > 3. This is more of a personal remark: I am not a good thief but I doubt that shadow portal isn't worth taking once you learn to use it to move your slower teammates around for example. > > > > The problem is that deadly arts / crit strikes does barely more damage than SA atm after the balance patch. If i drop SA for DA i crit 600 more on a heavy golem at this point. > > Not to mention if you want to frontload all your damage to be a burst spec you'd go da/tr/drd and drop agi signet and go sin signet and dodge 3 times before opening, which means at this point u have no evades after ur spike which makes u vulnerable. And at best here you'll do like 1.5k~ more damage than SA. > > > > I don't want thief to be buffed, we had this issue in HoT and i'd say its the "bunkers" that are too tanky atm. > > Tank rev > > Tank nec > > Prot holo > > SLB variants > > > > Prolly others forgotten, but I also don't want them to absolutely hammer these "tanks" i rather have them slowly tweak them down, little by little until they hit that sweet spot. > > > > And i don't run shadow portal, don't find it good personally > > Congratulations, you reached the understanding we all got nerfed. What else? You didn't really understand what he said. What he's saying is that if he takes his damage trait line, the one that's supposed to give more damage, it does barely any more damage vs taking the defensive one. When you take either you don't actually do enough damage to +1 very well. The only reason mesmer is better is because it's got good boon rip and reliable sustained condi damage. I think if people adapt mesmer will fall in popularity tbh but we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > > > > > > > You focus on what you see on Na but you dont focus on how little the thieves achieved in the games. You could have dropped thief in a second over a rev for example without a problem lmao > > > > > > > > There are a couple of problems: > > > > > > > > 1. Tanky braindead specs on necro, rev etc (trust me, I also feel I do bad damage on powermes in this meta), making the game slow and making it hard to +1. > > > > 2. Offensive lines not giving enough compared to defensive lines. A build with daredevil, shadowarts, trickery should not do super high levels of damage (because you are running one mobility line, one sustain line and one utility line). However a build with deadlyarts and critstrikes probably should. > > > > 3. This is more of a personal remark: I am not a good thief but I doubt that shadow portal isn't worth taking once you learn to use it to move your slower teammates around for example. > > > > > > The problem is that deadly arts / crit strikes does barely more damage than SA atm after the balance patch. If i drop SA for DA i crit 600 more on a heavy golem at this point. > > > Not to mention if you want to frontload all your damage to be a burst spec you'd go da/tr/drd and drop agi signet and go sin signet and dodge 3 times before opening, which means at this point u have no evades after ur spike which makes u vulnerable. And at best here you'll do like 1.5k~ more damage than SA. > > > > > > I don't want thief to be buffed, we had this issue in HoT and i'd say its the "bunkers" that are too tanky atm. > > > Tank rev > > > Tank nec > > > Prot holo > > > SLB variants > > > > > > Prolly others forgotten, but I also don't want them to absolutely hammer these "tanks" i rather have them slowly tweak them down, little by little until they hit that sweet spot. > > > > > > And i don't run shadow portal, don't find it good personally > > > > Congratulations, you reached the understanding we all got nerfed. What else? > > You didn't really understand what he said. > > What he's saying is that if he takes his damage trait line, the one that's supposed to give more damage, it does barely any more damage vs taking the defensive one. When you take either you don't actually do enough damage to +1 very well. > > The only reason mesmer is better is because it's got good boon rip and reliable sustained condi damage. I think if people adapt mesmer will fall in popularity tbh but we shall see. Chaos line waves at you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quadox.7834 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"bluri.2653" said: > > @"Quadox.7834" said: > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > There is no mirages but nearly everyone are playing thief (not shadow arts). > > > > Arent you playing SA/trickery/drd? So you have uncontested mobility, cleanses,perma stealth and want oneshot level damage? It doesnt work like that > > > > > > Lmao ur so delusional its hilarious. > > > Perma cleanse/stealth???? sa gives me 2sec stealth on heal ? my cleanse is in stealth with an interval per 3sec. > > > > > > DA burst is 600 more dmg id still not kill anything. What does my mobility do if i cant kill anything? Only reason we kill rn is cus we zerged 3v1 w portal or just together. > > > > > > Compare it to HoT didnt thief have uncontestwd mobility back then but suffered the same problem? You couldnt kill anything in a +1 and what happened? Ppl dropped thief. The only time thief came back was near end of hot when all sustain was lowered so thief could +1 > > > > > > You focus on what you see on Na but you dont focus on how little the thieves achieved in the games. You could have dropped thief in a second over a rev for example without a problem lmao > > > > There are a couple of problems: > > > > 1. Tanky braindead specs on necro, rev etc (trust me, I also feel I do bad damage on powermes in this meta), making the game slow and making it hard to +1. > > 2. Offensive lines not giving enough compared to defensive lines. A build with daredevil, shadowarts, trickery should not do super high levels of damage (because you are running one mobility line, one sustain line and one utility line). However a build with deadlyarts and critstrikes probably should. > > 3. This is more of a personal remark: I am not a good thief but I doubt that shadow portal isn't worth taking once you learn to use it to move your slower teammates around for example. > > The problem is that deadly arts / crit strikes does barely more damage than SA atm after the balance patch. If i drop SA for DA i crit 600 more on a heavy golem at this point. > Not to mention if you want to frontload all your damage to be a burst spec you'd go da/tr/drd and drop agi signet and go sin signet and dodge 3 times before opening, which means at this point u have no evades after ur spike which makes u vulnerable. And at best here you'll do like 1.5k~ more damage than SA. > > I don't want thief to be buffed, we had this issue in HoT and i'd say its the "bunkers" that are too tanky atm. > Tank rev > Tank nec > Prot holo > SLB variants > > Prolly others forgotten, but I also don't want them to absolutely hammer these "tanks" i rather have them slowly tweak them down, little by little until they hit that sweet spot. > > And i don't run shadow portal, don't find it good personally Yes I think the same (except perhaps the portal part). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"bluri.2653" said: > > > > > > > > > > Thief is awful, only reason we won the games is 1. Mesmer and portal and mes+rev damage makes me able to kill stuff. Try run thief without mes and rev and ill laugh. You run around and dont kill anything in organized 5v5. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at my vods only reason we successfully kill something is us zerging 3v1 > > > > > > > > > > (Mes thief and rev) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Surely you must be joking. It's not your ability to kill, it's the rotation speed that your class enables. No other class ATM can rival that rotation power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And what does thief mobility do if i cant kill something? Are you trolling me? My teammate is still stuck in a fight while hopefully the enemy team should punish my team in a 4v3 meanwhile. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Or am i wrong? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Id go rev in a heartbeat if i wasnt trash at anything but thief > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hear you on the single class thing. I really do. > > > > > > > But compare yourself to Mesmer for a sec... then tell me it's all fun in games. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer is actually one of the reasons we are winning ? higher damage and portal plays made us win most games > > > > > > > > > > Taking advantage of portal as a MUST have if you're Mesmer =/= Mesmer being in a good spot. Surely you must realize that. > > > > > > > > Mesmer damage plus portal ya. Id drop thief for rev but i wouldnt drop mes for rev for sure. Mesmer condi burst plus cc/daze is crazy good > > > > > > pffffffffffff... Wake up! > > > > Think the truth hurts! My vods are up for proof, enjoy > > The only thing your VoDs prove is that you need a nerf, esp compared to the rest of the herd. Were we watching the same VoDs? I mean he had the mobility thief always had, and of course the AoE stealth thats arguably absurd (and no other class other than *maybe* Engineer can provide), but his damage was absolutely *pathetic*. I saw 4k backstabs for the most part. With the recent Assassins Signet nerf, Id be surprised if you can hit more than 7k on a squishy with an active one. Hell, thief damage is so low, the good thieves arent even using Assassins Signet anymore. On D/P Backstab builds. Thats a pretty bad sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 The drawback comes down to your team, really. Thief is still incredibly mobile and excels at decapping and rotating (its still ok at +1ing, but its low damage is starting to catch up even there). However, if your team is worse at fighting than their team, the thief becomes effectively useless. Decapping and +1ing relies on your team being able to handle a temporary numbers disadvantage so you can use windows of opportunity to do your thing. If they cant, well youre not much good at that point. That being said I dont agree with Sind that thief is bad. Mobility is still key. Yes Mesmer is a whole lot better at actually fighting, but thats hardly news, they always have been. Thieves edge is that they move around the map either quicker, or more freely (portal does have certain restrictions after all). And as long as they have that, I cant see thief ever being bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > I think what people mean by perma condi cleanse on DrD is this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Escapist%27s_Fortitude#WvW.2CPvP > > > > It certainly hard counters a lot of condi builds. Whether that's a good or a bad thing I leave it up to you guys to discuss but it's certainly very strong. > > It's the combo of escapist fortitude and the grandmaster elite mid. You cleanse all debilitating condi and then further clear damaging ones, at the cost of a measly 2-4 secs exhaustion. "A measily 2-4 seconds of a debilitating debuff that prevents you from normally recharging your main form of defense". Nevermind that condi builds apply more than 1 damaging condition in their burst, and Escapist's Fortitude wont save you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 It's pretty simple to understand. And all these people that are saying thief is great right now are as usual in this community speaking out of bias cuz they obviously see cuz it's not hard that one of the games main if not main class designed to be a high mobility hit and run burst class is now in a spot where other than fulfilling its job as a runner it can't do anything else due to the fact its bursts are to low in relation to the sustain of more than half of the classes in the game. It's easy to see why all the players who obviously hate on thief are very happy with thief being in this position and would actually even prefer its mobility cut on top if it were up to them to out right delete them. Honestly if u play thief I'd just say bandwagon like the rest of the community, sind I'm sure in time ud be pretty damn good at rev. Or go to a different mmo to get ur rogue fix as theres still a good few where rogues are still decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan.9387 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 Tanky 1v1 builds make thief +1s a throw. Strong teamfight comps are untouchable by thief. Still useful on huge maps like eternal, where thief can guarantee buffs. Less value on smaller maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: >Blah, Blah, Blah Not worth responding to. > @"Ryan.9387" said: > Tanky 1v1 builds make thief +1s a throw. > Strong teamfight comps are untouchable by thief. > > Still useful on huge maps like eternal, where thief can guarantee buffs. Less value on smaller maps. Oh please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > >Blah, Blah, Blah > > Not worth responding to. > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > Tanky 1v1 builds make thief +1s a throw. > > Strong teamfight comps are untouchable by thief. > > > > Still useful on huge maps like eternal, where thief can guarantee buffs. Less value on smaller maps. > > Oh please. Lmao neither is ur constant whaaaa nerf thief posts cuz I suck so bad I have issues against the weakest class in the game cuz I cant work around simple mechanics. Seriously thief is the weakest in combat class and all u guys whine about it,why? Cuz its anoying. Cry some more lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"ArlAlt.1630" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > >Blah, Blah, Blah > > > > Not worth responding to. > > > > > @"Ryan.9387" said: > > > Tanky 1v1 builds make thief +1s a throw. > > > Strong teamfight comps are untouchable by thief. > > > > > > Still useful on huge maps like eternal, where thief can guarantee buffs. Less value on smaller maps. > > > > Oh please. > > Lmao neither is ur constant whaaaa nerf thief posts cuz I suck so bad I have issues against the weakest class in the game cuz I cant work around simple mechanics. Seriously thief is the weakest in combat class and all u guys whine about it,why? Cuz its anoying. Cry some more lol You're joking, right? Edit: You're lucky I'm not sniping you like BadMed.... Get in line, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 TIL people on this game enjoy playing the weakest professions. Maybe that's why misha was the only mirage, because mirage is disgustingly op and no one likes op professions B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > TIL people on this game enjoy playing the weakest professions. > Maybe that's why misha was the only mirage, because mirage is disgustingly op and no one likes op professions B) I mean, you joke, but people played Reaper for a long time while Reaper was garbage. Like, *actually* garbage. People do in fact play play classes that are weak because they enjoy them sometimes. I mean hell, some people played Core Nade Engineer pre-patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 That some classes are way too tanky atm is rly common sense and that roaming +1 builds suffer in effectiveness from that (not only Thief) is undenyable too. That doesn't change the fact that Mirage needs to be babysitted by Rev/ Thief to not be perma dead. Having good synergy from some utilities only Mesmer has to offer on a roaming build (portal, boon rip, what are all core abilities btw) with some decent condi dmg to support Rev/ Thief dmg also doesn't change the fact that the one dodge change was utterly garbage for the whole spec. The moment you don't need 3 synergized roaming classes to kill something tanky and boonspammy and ppl have to decide what 1-2 roamer they want to have in their team it is either Condimirage only because of portal with the other roamer needs to babysit it or just Rev+ Thief/ double Rev can roam independent without the need to be babysitted and peeled for all time, what maybe has more value in terms of fast rotation and fast +1 than portal. We will see that when the bunker and boonspam stuff finally will get nerfed in a proper way. Atm one Mirage is just lucky it can be babysitted by 2 other roamers, even being the best of those classes in the game, while they need and can 3v1 ppl. And Powermirage will not be seen at all even though it is the way more skilled and healthier playstyle should be made viable instead overkilling it to make a way easier and less healthy condiplaystyle less op while not even solving the issues making it op in the first place. Instead of the one dodge change what contradicts basic game design of skillful not spammy dodgemanagement just as contradicting the Mirage mechanic itself, they simply should have reworked condi ambushes what would have had the same effect on condi playstyle but with adding skill ceiling to Condimirage instead overnerfing and dumbing down every power playstyle as a spin off for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantheman.3589 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Do ppl even realized there is unmatched boon rip on sword/d thief, where average larcenous strike hit for the same as good backstabs, with arguably better mobility than dash dp thief(partly due to required stealthing) and can 1v1, team fight at the very least the same but probably much better and at this point can handle 1v1s with dp thief’s at least for a few mins if both thief’s are good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasylife.7981 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 Thief is good, even with the power nerfs it seems decent. but everything is still being overshadow by condition damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > Do ppl even realized there is unmatched boon rip on sword/d thief, where average larcenous strike hit for the same as good backstabs, with arguably better mobility than dash dp thief(partly due to required stealthing) and can 1v1, team fight at the very least the same but probably much better and at this point can handle 1v1s with dp thief’s at least for a few mins if both thief’s are good? First of all, no, Larcenous strike doesnt hit nearly as hard as Backstab, which already doesnt hit hard. And being able to 1v1 as well as d/p thief, given that d/p thief cant actually 1v1 is not exactly a good thing. But far as I can tell main downside is that you lose access to AoE stealth, which is a big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArlAlt.1630 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dantheman.3589" said: > > Do ppl even realized there is unmatched boon rip on sword/d thief, where average larcenous strike hit for the same as good backstabs, with arguably better mobility than dash dp thief(partly due to required stealthing) and can 1v1, team fight at the very least the same but probably much better and at this point can handle 1v1s with dp thief’s at least for a few mins if both thief’s are good? > > First of all, no, Larcenous strike doesnt hit nearly as hard as Backstab, which already doesnt hit hard. And being able to 1v1 as well as d/p thief, given that d/p thief cant actually 1v1 is not exactly a good thing. But far as I can tell main downside is that you lose access to AoE stealth, which is a big deal. Toss a coin to your DE, o valley o'plenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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