ArchonWing.9480

> @"Shroud.2307" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > Shrugs, if someone is trying that hard to win an internet argument, they could probably be like playing the game or something. > > > > I have died because I was posting on these forums a few times lol > > > > Anyhow, what kind of fallacy is it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial Maybe? I dunno. Think it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque > > > > > Person A makes claim X. > > Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X. > > Therefore, X is false. > > > > But fallacy or not, it's pretty creepy. > > I'm not going to pretend I don't contradict myself at times, I don't keep track of everything I say, and my opinions change. But taking things out of context and comparing apples to oranges is hardly an argument, especially when it's framed like an attack. > > I'm flattered someone took the time to read through so much of my history though. I mean, that's the point. Whether or not you contradict yourself in previous posts is irrelevant. People's opinions can change over time. I am curious on who keeps tabs on my post history. I know it's a common behavior on Reddit, but not sure in other parts.

Shrugs, if someone is trying that hard to win an internet argument, they could probably be like playing the game or something. I have died because I was posting on these forums a few times lol Anyhow, what kind of fallacy is it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#Circumstantial Maybe? I dunno. Think it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu_quoque > Person A makes claim X. Person B asserts that A's actions or past claims are inconsistent with the truth of claim X. Therefore, X is false. But fallacy or not, it's pretty creepy.

> @"Justine.6351" said: > But what about shattered aegis? ? It became meta in 2029 but then got removed from the game 2 months later as part of the bidecade balance patch.

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said: > As if it is any different for zerg builds ... > Yea sure. > @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > @"Shroud.2307" said: > > > You guys are missing the point entirely, lmao. > > > > > > It's that Soulbeast is low risk, low effort. > > > You press one button, Dolyak Stance, and you're now immune to all CC with a Prot stacking effect that reduces Condi damage too. With one button you're doing more than half the builds in the game do with several. > > > And with memebeast you can blast through someones' health bar from a football field away, and cover the same distance in the opposite direction if they move toward you. > > > > > > Nothing is as safe, low risk, and easy as being able to do 15 - 20k damage from 1500 range, with the option to run away if it fails before the target can even cover half that distance. > > > > > > Because I know how defensive Ranger mains are, I again want to defend myself by saying **I'm not the one asking for nerfs here.** But if you can't accept that SlB, be it boon or glass, is one of the lowest effort, lowest risk things you can play in WvW, you're kidding yourself. > > > I'm a Necro main and think it's one of the easiest classes for beginners, that the core Unholy Martyr build needs to be deleted, and Lich is still broken even if it's easy to counter. Y'all need to learn to stop having biases for your classes if you want to actually discuss balance or you're not worth talking to. > > > > I mean sure, but what roaming build is a "high effort" build anyways? Most of it ends up to be the most braindead stuff anyways. Not to mention putting effort into killing randoms is kinda pointless in this day and age. I would also further add that there's such bad balance between traits and skills within traits that if you're not picking the flavors of the month, that it almost feels like your handicapping yourself-- some traits are so good you'd be foolish not to take them, and some traits are so bad you'd be a fool to take it. > > > > Necro has barely any stab, blocks or mobility so it makes sense that they have a few broken damage skills. Condi kitten core is indeed annoying and dumb, but it's little more than a nuisance. However, I find it strange that people get so angry because they found a necro that cannot be killed when thieves, rangers, or engis can break combat whenever and I play those 3 much more often than necro. Personally, I don't get how necro roaming works at all due to the mobility. I need to be carried by some get out of jail free cards. > > > > I mean I guess warrior is kinda hard to play with all those nerfs? > > For necro go Reaper and use Shroud 2 and Speed of Shadows to zip around, bonus mobility if you use speed runes. Corrosive Poison Cloud will surprise more rangers than rangers on the forums will care to admit out loud. I've used it before to dive into a camp with RI just to murder a ranger who thought they were safe from me. Stomped him to. With RI on the supervisor. > > Warrior is in meh shape right now. I've made some builds that hold up well in fights, others that I want to do better that just don't. Constantly permeating through warrior traits and weapons to find things that work best. > > Oddly enough the build that I ran as a warrior that did the best post Feb. nerf was a Sentinel build that used Arms to make up for the Precision and Ferocity loss on gear. Had enough Marauder pieces or runes to get to 50% crit chance with fury up, used burst precision and unsuspecting foe to get to 100% crit from there. > > That and axe/axe + rifle. > > They really nerfed rifle damage too much, but the vulnerability and immob from Leg specialist sneaks up on people more often than you would think. If Rifle damage was even 15% higher it would be a viable weapon overall outside of MemeFlame and MemeShot builds. That's some interesting stuff right there, thanks. Already use Speed of Shadows. I've always been too worried about the self-condis, but better than being shot to death. Also GL with the warrior testing; will be waiting for it or Anet lol.

Well, you said it lasts until it is destroyed, which isn't true either. It does last longer than it should though. In general, I don't destroy the roots unless I'm doing it for someone else. It takes too long to figure that out and react, so still cleanse+move even on power classes. And yes, Mesmer is unfortunate in the sense that they are very poorly equipped in dealing with it. Also they're almost never gonna 1v1 except to troll so you don't have that luxury in most cases to destroy the roots. Maybe if you're a scourge or something. Now if anyone wants to post themselves showing off how to teach us plebs how to destroy the roots, I'm cool with that too.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > Also, did you just call me a liar? What hearsay? > > > > Heresay is not lying. It is simply statements made without any proof or anecdotes. (basically this whole thread) It is possible that you could be mistaken even with the best of intentions. Should drop the defensiveness and take about 5 seconds to look up what a word means before throwing accusations around. > > > > > Btw, if the skill can't be clensed > > > > Citation needed. > > > > > why did most of the people then specifically say "clense and dodge twice" when that doesn't even work? > > > > Are you saying that the people that said that are just lying? > > > > > > >Why are you trying to derail the thread? > > > > Yo, the title of this thread is "How do you get out of binding roots on a minstrel support?" and everything I wrote pertains to that. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's derailing. > > > > Alright, i misunderstood what you meant by hearsay. I appologize. > > You did say neither of my skills may work, so what is that supposed to mean then? If the root can be cleansed and my skills clense, then why wouldn't they work? > > Also i didn't call anyone a liar, you implied that. I just asked you what's right then, you can either clense and dodge, or not. "May not work" means a bug. It either works or it doesn't. Null Field pulses 1 condi away per second. The Ranger's binding roots also pulse immobilize (dunno the exact time, but it's pretty fast). Now because it doesn't just inflict immob (also inflicts bleeding) plus your average condi druid has other conditions to put on you, you usually have multiple condis on you, and also will get more condis soon after. Because of this, if your skill does not clear the immob, (say it cleared the bleed instead), then you are stuck and it'll stack immob on you again. That is why skills that only clear 1 condi at a time won't do anything to the immob. This is why neither the shatter clear or null field will help unless you get lucky. Now, there actually is a bug where the immob can stack longer than intended, but that doesn't have to do with the cleansing part of it. This is why dealing with it requires 2 steps. Cleanse, and the move away before it gets reapplied. If either fails, then you get stuck and no matter how many cleanses you spam; it won't work. tl;dr it immobolizes multiple times, so even if you get rid of the immob, it can still catch you again with the next pulse.

> Also, did you just call me a liar? What hearsay? Heresay is not lying. It is simply statements made without any proof or anecdotes. (basically this whole thread) It is possible that you could be mistaken even with the best of intentions. Should drop the defensiveness and take about 5 seconds to look up what a word means before throwing accusations around. > Btw, if the skill can't be clensed Citation needed. > why did most of the people then specifically say "clense and dodge twice" when that doesn't even work? What, did you think everyone who said that is just roleplaying or trying to mislead you? The simpler possibility is that you might be wrong. >Why are you trying to derail the thread? Yo, the title of this thread is "How do you get out of binding roots on a minstrel support?" and everything I wrote pertains to that. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's derailing.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > I didn't pick that build online, i made it myself with discussions from my guild. The online builds are weird and don't really synergize well. > > > > > > > > Whatever. Point is it doesn't work when it's put in situations it was never meant to handle. > > > > > > > > > But the introduction of warclaw largely eliminated the need for "moving build" don't you think? > > > > > > > > Well, why does this thread even exist then? Dismounts exists too and sometimes you do have to fight your way to your group. > > > > > > > > > Though, if you get to a group and they're mid fight, you need to stop, change the build again to be able to join first, which even if fast, takes some time. I guess it depends on the situation. > > > > > > > > What are you doing so that you can't spare 2 button presses? Also having a suboptimal build for your group is better than not making it to your group at all. > > > > > > > > I mean I'm not sure what you want to hear. Neither of your condi cleanses work against immobilize because they don't clear enough condis at once. It would not even suffice against non-roots a lot of the time either. Yes roots is a terrible mechanic, but I doubt your group cares about that when they're one down. > > > > > > The thread exists because - like i've said already, the skill is bugged and sometimes you can't get rid of it by any means. That's all. > > > I didn't even say i dislike the skill, why are you derailing the conversation to be about me here? It's not about my build, i never complained about being killed en route to somewhere. I get pulled a lot as well and dismounted and i never made a thread complaining about those. Those are working as intended and they're fine. > > > > > > I just said, the skill is bugged, from later responses it was suggested that server lag might have something to do with it which i accepted. > > > Because the bugs have nothing to do with my build. > > > > > > You're the one that continued to post after the thread was over. :tongue: > > > I don't know what you want me to say. Yes, you're stating the obvious - my group build isn't good for getting to places and 1v1 fights. I mean, ok, yeah, no kitten, that was never the complaint. You did point out i can switch it, and if i'm not lazy i just might. Or i might get killed again if i get pulled and can't defend myself with weak minstrels. Whatever. If that happens i won't rush to the forums and it already did some times and i never complained about it. Because that was never the point. > > > > > > The point is the bug. > > > > You don't own this thread and decides when it ends just because you started it. My advice is relevant to anyone that seeks help on this topic. > > > > It's not a bug and there are people in this very thread that are countering it easily. Like I said again, it's because singular condi clears are not effective due to cover conditions. > > > > I mean, I just came along to tell you how to deal with it completely, while explaining why your current methods are flawed. But since you don't appreciate it, well just sit there and die next time. I don't care either way. Maybe other players will take heed. > > So, not being able to use your weapons while under the effect of roots is not a bug? > Roots being on you indefinitely despite it saying it only lasts 4-5 secondsis not a bug? > Not being able to clense a condition when it's the only one is not a bug? > > I mean, i get what you're saying, but i wasn't having a problem with the skill when it worked correctly. It's not the first time i was rooted. I get pulled a lot too, i never made a thread about pulls. I only made the thread when that roots skill bugged out. Yet you chose to ignore all the points and everything i was telling you and dismiss it like it was nothing, while focusing on the thing i have no problem with. > Why can't you just accept that hey, sometimes some stuff gets bugged? And that in this case, the server lag that people were having that day could have contributed to the weird behaviour? Of course bugs and lag exists. But you can't just assume it's the only reason, especially when it's based on hearsay. Shouldn't we at least account for the issues that aren't dependent on bugs instead of assuming it must be a bug? I mean what I said applies regardless. (Neither of your clears may work even if it were never bugged) so....

> @"Shroud.2307" said: > You guys are missing the point entirely, lmao. > > It's that Soulbeast is low risk, low effort. > You press one button, Dolyak Stance, and you're now immune to all CC with a Prot stacking effect that reduces Condi damage too. With one button you're doing more than half the builds in the game do with several. > And with memebeast you can blast through someones' health bar from a football field away, and cover the same distance in the opposite direction if they move toward you. > > Nothing is as safe, low risk, and easy as being able to do 15 - 20k damage from 1500 range, with the option to run away if it fails before the target can even cover half that distance. > > Because I know how defensive Ranger mains are, I again want to defend myself by saying **I'm not the one asking for nerfs here.** But if you can't accept that SlB, be it boon or glass, is one of the lowest effort, lowest risk things you can play in WvW, you're kidding yourself. > I'm a Necro main and think it's one of the easiest classes for beginners, that the core Unholy Martyr build needs to be deleted, and Lich is still broken even if it's easy to counter. Y'all need to learn to stop having biases for your classes if you want to actually discuss balance or you're not worth talking to. I mean sure, but what roaming build is a "high effort" build anyways? Most of it ends up to be the most braindead stuff anyways. Not to mention putting effort into killing randoms is kinda pointless in this day and age. I would also further add that there's such bad balance between traits and skills within traits that if you're not picking the flavors of the month, that it almost feels like your handicapping yourself-- some traits are so good you'd be foolish not to take them, and some traits are so bad you'd be a fool to take it. Necro has barely any stab, blocks or mobility so it makes sense that they have a few broken damage skills. Condi kitten core is indeed annoying and dumb, but it's little more than a nuisance. However, I find it strange that people get so angry because they found a necro that cannot be killed when thieves, rangers, or engis can break combat whenever and I play those 3 much more often than necro. Personally, I don't get how necro roaming works at all due to the mobility. I need to be carried by some get out of jail free cards. I mean I guess warrior is kinda hard to play with all those nerfs?

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > I didn't pick that build online, i made it myself with discussions from my guild. The online builds are weird and don't really synergize well. > > > > Whatever. Point is it doesn't work when it's put in situations it was never meant to handle. > > > > > But the introduction of warclaw largely eliminated the need for "moving build" don't you think? > > > > Well, why does this thread even exist then? Dismounts exists too and sometimes you do have to fight your way to your group. > > > > > Though, if you get to a group and they're mid fight, you need to stop, change the build again to be able to join first, which even if fast, takes some time. I guess it depends on the situation. > > > > What are you doing so that you can't spare 2 button presses? Also having a suboptimal build for your group is better than not making it to your group at all. > > > > I mean I'm not sure what you want to hear. Neither of your condi cleanses work against immobilize because they don't clear enough condis at once. It would not even suffice against non-roots a lot of the time either. Yes roots is a terrible mechanic, but I doubt your group cares about that when they're one down. > > The thread exists because - like i've said already, the skill is bugged and sometimes you can't get rid of it by any means. That's all. > I didn't even say i dislike the skill, why are you derailing the conversation to be about me here? It's not about my build, i never complained about being killed en route to somewhere. I get pulled a lot as well and dismounted and i never made a thread complaining about those. Those are working as intended and they're fine. > > I just said, the skill is bugged, from later responses it was suggested that server lag might have something to do with it which i accepted. > Because the bugs have nothing to do with my build. > > You're the one that continued to post after the thread was over. :tongue: > I don't know what you want me to say. Yes, you're stating the obvious - my group build isn't good for getting to places and 1v1 fights. I mean, ok, yeah, no kitten, that was never the complaint. You did point out i can switch it, and if i'm not lazy i just might. Or i might get killed again if i get pulled and can't defend myself with weak minstrels. Whatever. If that happens i won't rush to the forums and it already did some times and i never complained about it. Because that was never the point. > > The point is the bug. You don't own this thread and decides when it ends just because you started it. My advice is relevant to anyone that seeks help on this topic. It's not a bug and there are people in this very thread that are countering it easily. Like I said again, it's because singular condi clears are not effective due to cover conditions. I mean, I just came along to tell you how to deal with it completely, while explaining why your current methods are flawed. But since you don't appreciate it, well just sit there and die next time. I don't care either way. Maybe other players will take heed.

> I didn't pick that build online, i made it myself with discussions from my guild. The online builds are weird and don't really synergize well. Whatever. Point is it doesn't work when it's put in situations it was never meant to handle. > But the introduction of warclaw largely eliminated the need for "moving build" don't you think? Well, why does this thread even exist then? Dismounts exists too and sometimes you do have to fight your way to your group. > Though, if you get to a group and they're mid fight, you need to stop, change the build again to be able to join first, which even if fast, takes some time. I guess it depends on the situation. What are you doing so that you can't spare 2 button presses? Also having a suboptimal build for your group is better than not making it to your group at all. I mean I'm not sure what you want to hear. Neither of your condi cleanses work against immobilize because they don't clear enough condis at once. It would not even suffice against non-roots a lot of the time either. That's not a bug. Yes roots is a terrible mechanic, but I doubt your group cares about that when they're one down.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > Which class? Minstrel doesn't mean anything. > > > > > > > > Guardians can use tome 3 skill 4 for resistance. Alternatively, you can also take contemplation of purity if your group is that lacking because immob converts into resistance. Scrappers convert immob with purity of purpose so there shouldn't be a problem with that. (use cleanse gyro). Eles can use staff 4 + dodge + lightning flash > > > > > > > > If you fail all that, then just run durability runes /w cleansing sigils. > > > > > > Minstrel Chrono, sorry should have been more specific. > > > But the problem is, i tried clensing but it didn't work. My shatters clense, i have null field, you just have to do damage to the roots. Cleansing didn't work, that's why i was asking wha to do. And i do run durability runes. > > > > > > Was this a bug then? Cause it seemed weird to me as well, i got caught in roots before, but they've never been so strong and lasted that long... Idk what happened. > > > > Null and the shatter cleanse only deal with 1 condi at a time. Considering you'll never have just 1 condi on you, it's not going to be very effective. So you can use cleansing sigils. (I think sword 3, x2 staff 2, or blink should work after?). I've never really paid attention to if teles deal with it. > > > > Or, your firebrand isn't doing their job; in which case you gotta take stuff like cleanse mantra. > > Hmm, sword 3 should work but that skill is super bugged at the best of times. But thanks, didn't occur to me. When i was in water i had water weapons and couldn't use them, but i'll try it on land next time. I don't use blink though, i'm built for group fights, blink isn't very useful there. > > And there was no FB, i was alone, on my way to the group. If you're alone, then you shouldn't be a support build at all because there is no one to support. You should have a "moving build" on 1 template. For example,Mirror, Decoy, Cleanse Mantra, Blink, Mass Invis + Torch with cleanse/energy sigils on both sets; your opponent shouldn't even see you for long after you get dismounted. Your alternate weapons don't even have to be ascended or have any good stats because it's just meant to avoid combat. Remember that any build you pick up online assumes you have full comps; if you don't, you need to gear for self sufficiency, depending on your trust in the group. Mesmer cleanses are admittingly kinda crap, so you just have to deal with that.

> > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > Which class? Minstrel doesn't mean anything. > > > > Guardians can use tome 3 skill 4 for resistance. Alternatively, you can also take contemplation of purity if your group is that lacking because immob converts into resistance. Scrappers convert immob with purity of purpose so there shouldn't be a problem with that. (use cleanse gyro). Eles can use staff 4 + dodge + lightning flash > > > > If you fail all that, then just run durability runes /w cleansing sigils. > > Minstrel Chrono, sorry should have been more specific. > But the problem is, i tried clensing but it didn't work. My shatters clense, i have null field, you just have to do damage to the roots. Cleansing didn't work, that's why i was asking wha to do. And i do run durability runes. > > Was this a bug then? Cause it seemed weird to me as well, i got caught in roots before, but they've never been so strong and lasted that long... Idk what happened. Null and the shatter cleanse only deal with 1 condi at a time. Considering you'll never have just 1 condi on you, it's not going to be very effective. So you can use cleansing sigils. (I think sword 3, x2 staff 2, or blink should work after?). I've never really paid attention to if teles deal with it. Or, your firebrand isn't doing their job; in which case you gotta take stuff like cleanse mantra.

Which class? Minstrel doesn't mean anything. Guardians can use tome 3 skill 4 for resistance. Alternatively, you can also take contemplation of purity if your group is that lacking because immob converts into resistance. Scrappers convert immob with purity of purpose so there shouldn't be a problem with that. (use cleanse gyro). Eles can use staff 4 + dodge + lightning flash If you fail all that, then just run durability runes /w cleansing sigils.

Open World, Dragonhunter is better because you don't have to manage mantras. For that build I would change the utilities, I would swap Feel my wrath with Mantra of Liberation and Signet of Wrath with Mantra of Lore. Also change ground targeting to fast with range indicator

I suppose the most annoying thing is the mobility. It's pretty hard to be caught on a soulbeast. You can of course escape even better with deadeye but then you aren't that effective. But then again that's just the issue with roaming; there's no reason to not abuse mobility. Still beats roaming with full supports though.

> @"Mil.3562" said: > Nowadays WvW tags run closed squads because they only want and need meta classes, they need voice comm, they need numbers and still half the time they get wiped. Before, WvW Commanders ran open squads, invite anyone that ran next to them, no need for voice comm and still they win encounters most of the time. > > Notice the difference? Real Commanders vs just tags. Back then it was also much easier to carry because there wasn't stuff like metabattle or whatever and people were bringing in uplevels and stuff and generally being clueless. 7 years later, there's simply a lot less of those players as the overall incentive to play WvW has decreased and organized guild groups are much more experienced than before so even the worst of guilds is still capable of some threat just by the acts of sheer repetition. The power creep decreasing TTK has also turned snowflakes into flat out liabilities too. Consider a very simple situation where pugs not in comms may accidentally ruin stealth by not getting off mounts soon enough or just not getting it and running along with the stealthed crowd and defeating the purpose of it. This is just an unfortunate effect of older games. It's been figured out so you can no longer just do whatever. Of course, the effect is much more pronounced in a long neglected game mode with shallow game balance.

> @"knite.1542" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > Can't break into SMC inner without 'em. Well I guess you can. > > Siege golems would like to know your location.8 Oh right, do those come with an auto?

Can't break into SMC inner without 'em. Well I guess you can.

The reason question is why do people torture themselves making legendaries? How is that fun for a skin that isn't even always better than the ones on the gem store? We play WvW because it's more or less open world with occasional player vs player conflict, and each player that comes in can fill in a niche that they decide on their own. If they decide to contribute (I suppose that's a big if) No other area of the game is like that. In PvE, there's about 5 viable stats (berserker, viper, diviner, harrier, and maybe minstrel), and for 90% of content, it's really just 1 stat... berserker. The rest are useless, but here many more stat combos have a lot of use.

As with any up and coming new alliance/server, I'd like to congratulate you on your efforts, but the problem is that these things can be very volatile, so a good test is the 3 month test to see whether people can go through thick and thin.

> @"kash.9213" said: > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > Its not hard to open discord app and just listen. I rarely speak in discord because "reasons" but i can listen to what the tag wants when he calls for sneak gyro or positioning changes etc. Seriously how can anyone think its such an inconvenience > > But then you have to listen to them. The only time you need to know what one of those squads are up to is if they're going to bring lag and circles on your spot you're trying to profit from. It seems to be better if you just look away from them. The moment I look into their direction my fps dies. It's just like those fights in PvE where you have to look away from the enemy.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"cobbah.3102" said: > > And then you get asked to leave map ,if you have nothing to bring to the group so they can bring thier zerg to said map , think it was myself that purchased the game and entitled to be on whatever border I choose. > > Is this NA or EU? > Because i was never asked to leave a map, or heard anyone tell someone to do so. :confused: I'm on EU. > I mean, it's kind of an "unwritten ettiquette" to do so, but i didn't see anyone bother anyone for not leaving a map. > Especially because most afk people, or people who don't zerg around are looking for outnumbered maps to maximize pip farm. They don't bother anyone there. Yea that happens; small names big egos are everywhere on NA. Typically this is a kitten guild that can only run a map queue. I've even seen cases where they tell other guilds to leave the map despite the fact that the other guild is doing better than them. It's trash though. Normally I would leave so other people can get in a queued map but if this starts happening, I start to stay a bit longer or even tag up myself lol to fish up the other straggler players that have been told to leave. We'll probably accomplish 10x more than those that 1 push into even numbers. > @"God.2708" said: > > @"Spartacus.3192" said: > > > > hah yeah i see that often in NA. I agree. I paid for the game and will play how i like and on whatever map i want. When i call them out in team chat they shut up pretty quick. > > This is a bizarre attitude to me, and I suppose one of the largest flaws of the current WvW system. WvW wasn't designed to be a PvP sandbox. It was designed to be a team sport. Could you imagine paying to join a football league and then telling your team 'I paid, I'll play how I want' and then just doing your own thing and ignoring everyone else? You'd make yourself out to be quite the kitten quick, assuming they couldn't immediately eject you. The only difference here is that players can't do that (probably for good reason). But, it's also been the heart of complaints about WvW since it's inception and what alliances are suppose to help fix so I can hardly say you are right in your attitude. Team implies we treat each other as equals. Sometimes we have different opinions on what to do. One side going "my way or the high way" is not working as a team. Who died and made them dictator? I mean, I think more than half the people on my team on any given day are rallybots running godknowswhat, but that doesn't mean I don't try to work with them. Just because someone put a dorito on their head doesn't make them the leader. Heck, they probably don't even have the catmander. If they really wanted to give authority, it would just be like raids and fractals where you could kick out people that are liabilities. You can do that for squad, but definitely not on the map.

> @"Veprovina.4876" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"Coelho Nat.4697" said: > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said: > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > Personally, I wait for people to get their daily and then attack them. > > > > I've had this happen, too. I usually just sit there and don't counter-attack. Gets it over faster. > > > > > > > I also don´t attack if I notice the player is only completing daily (mainly the veteran kill, caravan disrupt, and land claimer). Fortunately, in most cases, players respect some 'neutral spots' on the map. It won´t affect the wvw match if you allow someone to kill a veteran mob. > > This whole idea that players should be "respecting" the opposing side to let them get free/easy loot is antithetical to the game mode. > > This false idea that we should be "respecting neutral spots" that functionally do not exist to help players get free loot/rewards is part of the imaginary ettiquette that players who do not posses the ability to fight like to spread. > > There's a lot of unwritten ettiquette in WvW that are of course, created by the players, not the game mode as they're not a mechanic. > Doesn't make it less valid. > > Like i previously said - guild raids usually don't attack roamers, even if they're right in the middle of our blob. There's nothing really to gain here and it's just annoying to people to get stomped by 20+ people when not being able to do anything about it. You're there to fight guilds, not get easy kills so attacking single people is just rude at that point. Public zergs are a different thing, they're there to cap stuff and kill everyone in their way. But if you're doing a raid and your goal is to fight other groups with your guild, it doesn't make sense to harrass roamers. I've even had situations where there's 3 guilds, and 1 guild will wait out the fight between the 2 opposing ones. > > Same with having neutral areas. No you don't have to respect them, but not doing so is rude, and when it happens to you it's not as fun right? So why inflict it on others. > If you must attack, wait for the veteran to drop dead, have the player get their daily, then get your easy kill if you really need it. > But i've also seen people not attack someone who is afk or doesn't fight back. Unless they're in a keep you just broke into because then you're just leaving a player inside to easily take the keep back, so that's understandable. > > It's why you stay away whenever you see 2 people fighting. Because it's probably a duel and you jumping in and "saving" your server's player will just anger both of them. > If someone attacks you as you're watching, then you just got an invitation to join in and wipe the pavement with them. Other than that, the unwritten ettiquette is to not interfere. > > Game mode is after all just that - a mode, it's not law, and beyond the necessary mechanics, players are the ones who "make" the mode. And a little empathy never hurt anyone, especially not letting PvErs do their daily, so players due to this made some unwritten ettiquette to make it a better place for everyone. You don't need to follow the rules, but it's nice to do so once in a while because it doesn't really affect the match or your server in any way. Especially if you let someone kill a veteran. Yea, all of this 100%. It's why this game mode is even playable given the current state of things, and comes at virtually no cost.

There's nothing to stop you from making your own squad. Any reason you give on why you can't, is the same reason why people don't pugmand anymore.