Leo G.4501

> @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > Gearing in GW2 is ridiculously easy man

>

> Ok I'll bite, how is it easy? After coming back from not playing this game for a while all of my chars armour runes and weapons are outdated. So what do I do :)

How are they outdated? I tend to play sporatically, taking long breaks and then burn/grinding for a couple months before taking a break and I managed to make 2 ascended medium sets, 2 ascended heavy sets, 1 ascended light and a plethora of exotics and materials to make more ascended once I get enough of the costly ascended stuff. They are all still relevent and not outdated and apparently, I can change the stats of my ascended gear to other stats (only tried once, changing a carrion set to grieving).

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> So what specific hot/pof stats are you after mate? Your making it kinda hard to understand becouse right after you say original stats witch seem to point to core stat combos.

> Edit

> Your talking about exotics so I guess viper or minstrel?

> We have known for ever that exotic hot stats arent worth to craft just go for ascended.

> Craft what ever ascended thats cheapest and stat change said item in the mystic forge with an exotic insigina/inscription mate.

>

Agreed. When I read the OP, I thought you wanted gear that didn't make you a glass cannon.

Unless you specify what gear you're specifically trying to get, no one can assist you.

And yeah, if you don't have crafting leveled up, it's a good call to work on it over time because you're going to want to be able to craft Ascended. Them's tha breaks. It's gonna take some grinding so invest in some other gear stats in the meantime.

> @"Zin Dau.1749" said:

> If they wanted easy way out, just stick with 2D games, and never touch 3D. There, much less work for your artists. But if they want to keep making 3D games, they just have to suck it up and put in the effort to make items that players want.

>

> Yet there is no excuse to blame hard work, when they can create such extravagant maps and levels. The effort they put into these maps is just as time consuming as gear.

I share the same stance when it comes to suggesting anything for the game (you will find my posts like that in "new race" threads), but when the argument is "stop doing that thing I don't like and do what I DO like instead" is where we will cross. I like a lot of the outfits and while I'm not a huge fan of the majority of the armor sets, I wouldn't outright suggest they stop making armor and make more outfits (unless I'm expressing my ideal pie-in-the-sky scenario).

You can run a minimalist build. A good amount of the gear that you get from completing story instances, achievements, events and so forth can drop exotics that have more defensive stats or a blend of offense and defense (I don't recall getting much for support type stats tho).

It's actually a method of play, a minimalist only uses equipment that they get as drops and it can be a fun little challenge to finally see good pieces that you can either use, cross your fingers when you salvage for the materials/upgrade item or set aside to sell or use on another character.

Now if you're concerned with gearing up for other content, I'd look into other avenues to grab quick gear. Vendors often sell exotics of certain stat combos (not all, of course) for some sort of currency. With a combo of salvaging, gathering materials, doing content for currencies and raking in daily rewards, it's not that daunting to start getting the gear you're looking for. It takes time, but if you could just get your gear set-up in a couple weeks, there wouldn't be much reason to participate in the majority of the game's content.

> @"Lazze.9870" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"Lazze.9870" said:

> > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > And I think outfits are plenty creative. Are they the level of personal custom character creation as the likes of perhaps City of Heroes? No, it never was, but for what it's for (making a great looking character), it works, IMO.

> > >

> > > Plenty creative how? Because of its four dye slots?

> >

> > Plenty creative on the developer's side. That is, they can be more creative when making them rather than designing inside of the box that armor pieces forces them to design around.

> >

> > > You know what game you're playing, right? A game where you'd normaly have six armor pieces all seperately dyeable.

> >

> > When the majority of those 6 pieces look bad or the same as dozens of other pieces for that slot, what creativity are you talking about?

> >

> > >Outfits gimps the fashion potential of this game, the ONLY two arguments for outfits worth anything in this debate is the fact that it's easier for Anet to make them and sell them, and they give players an option for an alternative look to switch forth and back between without transmuting or changing the armor.

> > >

> >

> > How about that the outfits look more polished, detailed and varied compared to a set of armor?

> >

> > > That being said, the worst offense with this new dervish outfit is how the bones literally stick to and stretch with the cloths of the outfit. In the original game, those bones behaved independently. How can they make an outfit look worse in a sequel 11 years after the original was made.

> >

> > It's a good question. None of it relates to outfits, but gear design as a whole in GW2. Personally, I'd prefer they focus on making races varied and interesting and let us put outfits on them rather than trying to design more intricate armor sets that ultimately come off as overly designed. Again, if this were FFXIV where they have fewer race body types to fit armor on, they could likely make amazing looking sets. But we don't and they can't.

>

> The box that forces them how to design is a box they have put themselves into.

This is certainly true but being true doesn't help your point at all.

They designed armor in such a way that there are 3 separate weights to them with different anchors. In hindsight, that was not a good decision. Heck, it was a bad decision to make armor weight matter for stats when they could have left it as pure cosmetic. It doesn't change the fact that that limitation is now in play.

They also created the charr and asura as playable races which have drastically different models and animations than humans thus requiring design consideration when creating cosmetics for them. In hindsight, that was not a good decision for the likes of those that value armor skins more than playing different races of characters. Had they only the male human and female human models to worry about (if they really wanted charr in there, they could have made them taller humans with horns, furry ears and a tail) they could make more and better looking armor... But not only that, they went the extra mile and made even the human model shaped races have unique armor designs as well.

They also created a system with 6 parts (head, shoulders, hands, torso, legs and feet). In hindsight, with all of the above, had they gone a simpler route with maybe just 4 parts, maybe it wouldn't be such an involved task to make a set of armor?

They also created this bizarre parity system where when they introduce a set of armor created around a motif, they have to make 3 variations using the same motif regardless of if it makes sense or looks good rather than choose the motif that fits the weight of armor. In hindsight, they make a lot of design decisions that uses a motif that doesn't have a distinct direction (although I bet feel some of the PoF sets were well made, but the sets also didn't look like they were counter parts to another set either). Armor design variety is affected because of this.

Lastly, (and this is more in regards to the expectations of those requesting armor) the desire for armor skins is only considered being catered to when an entire set of 6 pieces x 3 weights is introduced. Regardless of if they could do good things by just releasing parts like gloves, helms or boots, it doesn't count if it's not a full set and it's a strike when parity is not preserved.

>Still, there are good armor pieces out there, and they give you a much better variety of looks than any of the outfits do.

That depends on your definition of variety. If I want my warrior to have a more barbarian look with a loincloth, some shoulder protectors, and specifically a body armor that looks more like cloth wraps or bandages, I'm just not creative enough to make such a character exist. But if I want a simple winter climate look that makes sense for the snowy mountains... Still not creative enough to pull that off either... But I can use an outfit for the latter, at least.

I understand what you're getting at, making this OCs that look unique and special and cool, but frankly, none of that matters if you don't actually have creative freedom to actually make what you want and this 6-pieces-connected-to -stats system won't allow *actual* creative freedom.

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

>Why are the best pieces always part of the non mixable stuff? Why do they make outfits "superior" while neglecting armor pieces?

Because they are easier to make as a set. Because they are more free when designing as a set vs designing within the confines of the box that armor pieces requires. Because they'd be obligated to create 3 weighs out of one motif regardless of if it makes sense or looks good (still have no idea why they do this). Because as more and more quality textures are utilized to make a piece, the worse it will look trying to blend with different or older looking textures.

> @"Biff.5312" said:

> I use outfits almost exclusively, simply because almost all armor skins are completely uninteresting. I'd like more options in that regard. There's plenty of cool head piece options, but then you get stuck with things like all medium armor looking like overcoats that flare at the hips and look ridiculous, etc. Outfits generally show more inventiveness and fit better on the toons.

Good to hear some truth. For all the inventiveness and creativity that armor skins grants the players, by the posts you hear around here, you'd assume all armor is just amazing and had done no wrong.

I wish some of the limitations on armor (or outfits for that matter) could be worked on but at the end of the day, I find myself using armor skins less and outfits more, not because of the current trend of more outfits, but because no interesting or good looking or unique armor is being pushed out or has been pushed out in a while. Just flash, glitter, gaudy and bulky (and don't get me started on back pieces).

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Martimus.6027" said:

> > If you can go back to the archives, you'll see that literally every single argument these naysayers are using as to why ANet won't add another race has already been stated precisely as to why we couldn't get a new class. And yet, here we are with Revenants.

>

> Except when it comes to personal story and all of the armor skins needing to be re-done. Oh yeah, there’s also all of the character dialogue that needs to be done to match the new race.

>

> New race != New Class

Right, a new race doesn't require constant testing, revamping, rebalancing, debugging, updating skills, data collection, adding new skills and traits, effects animations, effects REanimations...

The point being, no they aren't the same but they require lots and different kinds of work. One could say that the "content" provided by a new profession is more relevent and deep compared to a new race but then I say how do you monetize a new profession? What extras requiring purchase does a new profession facilitate? Standard fare: character slot and inventory, perhaps a makeover kit. What extras would a new race facilitate? Well, it depends. If instead of taking the time to redo all the armor to fit a new race, you instead sold unique outfits for them (with some being earnable in the game), put some good options behind the makeover kit, you can even charge for the race option itself only available if you purchase the relevent expansion.

> @"Nuka Cola.8520" said:

> Outfits should be exclusive to Eventful skins, such as Grenth, etc. Armors should be armors, because that's how an rpg works, you have a thing called ARMORS. How kitten stupid does it sound to you if i were to say that your next new armor set(s) will only be available in the next expansion that is 2+ years from release. What kind of mmo gets no armor sets in a span of 24+ months?

>

> Your idea is laughable, Anet.

It's a pretty entitled point, and a false one.

As for RPGs and how they work, it varies. Blade and Soul is a competative MMORPG with GW2 and it doesn't have armor (they have soul shields, belts, souls and pets...). I'm sure there are other examples but linking cosmetic looks with stats is a problem, in and of itself, that should have been quashed at the game's inception if cosmetics were going to be its end-game.

What weapon do you want to use? I find that that is usually the lynchpin of how I make my builds. When I decide what weapon I want to focus on, the offhand/secondary weapon, traits, stats, utilities, food and outfit/armor skin follow.

Another aspect that has annoyed me to no end is when I have left over materials or what have you, you either have to drop it, sell it or keep it stored off in your bank somewhere. A good amount of the time, I just keep certain components that I make because I know I'll make another batch at some point but if/when I do is usually dependant on if the prices for the ingredients change or if I manage to make any progress farming the needed materials.

Keeping around materials can be annoying if you make a plethora of different dishes because so many things require widely different components and there is no storage space for them.

> @"Cyprien.4208" said:

> I don't hate outfits but do wish more options to maybe hide shoulders on outfits as well maybe use the helmet armor piece. I however think there is a lack of armors within the game and not tons of choices or great choice to choose from.

I personally feel they can take an extra step regarding outfit customization by allowing certain parts to be turned off/on which can be unique to the outfit and accessible through the outfit tab. For example:


With this outfit, along with its dye channels, there could be 3 check boxes. 1 for downed hood, another for no hood and a 3rd for bone ornaments. All they would do is toggle an option for the outfit that only needs forethought to layer to make available (that is, it doesn't require more time to design or create it, just knowledge that while you're creating it, you want these parts to be toggle-able). This gives you the option to have the outfit but with the hood down around your neck/shoulders or gone completely and the option to turn the large bones on the lower portion (and the tail for Charr) off.

Compared to Awakened outfit.


Also 3 check boxes, one for helmet, one for ribbons and the third for the swords allows you to vary the look of the outfit.

I'm sure there could be an example of an outfit where you might want to turn the shoulder portion off or perhaps the torso portion off but couldn't think of one before I have to leave for work.

They could even maybe go a slight extra step beyond even that and allow headpieces to show over an outfit but that might take a good amount of effort but likely far less than trying to split outfits into armor pieces.

> @"Lazze.9870" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > And I think outfits are plenty creative. Are they the level of personal custom character creation as the likes of perhaps City of Heroes? No, it never was, but for what it's for (making a great looking character), it works, IMO.

>

> Plenty creative how? Because of its four dye slots?

Plenty creative on the developer's side. That is, they can be more creative when making them rather than designing inside of the box that armor pieces forces them to design around.

> You know what game you're playing, right? A game where you'd normaly have six armor pieces all seperately dyeable.

When the majority of those 6 pieces look bad or the same as dozens of other pieces for that slot, what creativity are you talking about?

>Outfits gimps the fashion potential of this game, the ONLY two arguments for outfits worth anything in this debate is the fact that it's easier for Anet to make them and sell them, and they give players an option for an alternative look to switch forth and back between without transmuting or changing the armor.

>

How about that the outfits look more polished, detailed and varied compared to a set of armor?

> That being said, the worst offense with this new dervish outfit is how the bones literally stick to and stretch with the cloths of the outfit. In the original game, those bones behaved independently. How can they make an outfit look worse in a sequel 11 years after the original was made.

It's a good question. None of it relates to outfits, but gear design as a whole in GW2. Personally, I'd prefer they focus on making races varied and interesting and let us put outfits on them rather than trying to design more intricate armor sets that ultimately come off as overly designed. Again, if this were FFXIV where they have fewer race body types to fit armor on, they could likely make amazing looking sets. But we don't and they can't.

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > > > All of them. Unless you have arthritis which might make clicking challenging but then the whole game is probably literally painful.

> > > > >

> > > > > or you if mean it is expensive but that has nothing to do with being complex.

> > > >

> > > > That's a bit disingenuous. When I cook (and I do cook food for my characters so they have snacks for the road), I'm always needing to either:

> > > > 1. Needing to go purchase some specific ingredient from a karma vendor that I need to wiki to find which one.

> > > > a. that is, after I check the trading post to see if the specific product made is cheaper to buy directly.

> > > > b. making sure the other components used to make the food don't exceed the price of the food itself

> > > >

> > > > 2. Needing to go farm specific areas for ingredients that are bound but this is usually more a note for future cooking sessions.

> > > >

> > > > 3. Wiki foods that likely have better effects, are cheap and can't be crafted.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > None of that looks anything resembling complex.

> > >

> >

> > That's your opinion though. For an inexperienced cook, seeing ingredients that they don't have and can't find on the tp this requiring external info can be considered complexity.

> >

> > Even if it's not complex, it's only one particular step that's extra busy work on top of other busy work steps. Comparing it to real cooking tho is kind of funny. It's no where near as interesting as real cooking.

> >

> > But if you're debating to keep busy work in the game, that's fine. I disagree that it's good or fine tho.

> >

>

> I am not but you have set the bar for "too complex" ridiculously low if the simple act of obtaining ingredients is considered too complicated.

>

> The wiki is not required. The alternative is that you explore the world and remember where everything is. Most people probably aren't going to do that though. The wiki is like everyone's shared notebook. That isn't much different from the rest of the game. You could figure out how to fight a boss/complete a collection/go through a JP/etc. on your own or you could follow a guide.

>

Lol I doubt anyone can be arsed with remembering where everything is. But I'm not arguing that its "too complex", just that you said it's not complex. If it were an intricate mini-game to be invested in, exploring for secret or obscure ingredients could be fun...but it's just menu clicking. It's rather beside the point as the original topic is discussing tiered aspects of the recipes. That plus busy work can make cooking more of a chore than anything. Are we talking because you strongly feel we need to keep everything the same because "reasons"? Or are we talking to maybe feel out possible avenues to improve this aspect of the game? I suppose if you feel the game is perfect then there is no reason for us to continue this line of discussion.

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > All of them. Unless you have arthritis which might make clicking challenging but then the whole game is probably literally painful.

> > >

> > > or you if mean it is expensive but that has nothing to do with being complex.

> >

> > That's a bit disingenuous. When I cook (and I do cook food for my characters so they have snacks for the road), I'm always needing to either:

> > 1. Needing to go purchase some specific ingredient from a karma vendor that I need to wiki to find which one.

> > a. that is, after I check the trading post to see if the specific product made is cheaper to buy directly.

> > b. making sure the other components used to make the food don't exceed the price of the food itself

> >

> > 2. Needing to go farm specific areas for ingredients that are bound but this is usually more a note for future cooking sessions.

> >

> > 3. Wiki foods that likely have better effects, are cheap and can't be crafted.

> >

> >

>

> None of that looks anything resembling complex.

>

That's your opinion though. For an inexperienced cook, seeing ingredients that they don't have and can't find on the tp this requiring external info can be considered complexity.

Even if it's not complex, it's only one particular step that's extra busy work on top of other busy work steps. Comparing it to real cooking tho is kind of funny. It's no where near as interesting as real cooking.

But if you're debating to keep busy work in the game, that's fine. I disagree that it's good or fine tho.

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

> This is a lost war. Outfits are a cheaper to do version of proper armor, a crutch alternative which thwarts creativity, customization and uniqueness, but is easier to implement and sells anyway. Why to have a proper product if people are happy with a halfbaked one?

>

> Since that is the only "choice" I have left, I'll just never buy an outfit. Little lose for them, way bigger loss for me: the resources will be put into outfits anyway, armor will always be treated as a second rate product. Super sad.

Because they've always been second rate. Have you seen the armor in FFXIV?

And I think outfits are plenty creative. Are they the level of personal custom character creation as the likes of perhaps City of Heroes? No, it never was, but for what it's for (making a great looking character), it works, IMO.

> @"Shmanka.4628" said:

> It's probably the most frustrating item in every Gem Store purchase. I was about to purchase the Primeval Dervish Armor because of my GW1 Nostalgia, then, I stopped myself. It's an outfit. Again...

>

> Why I think Outfits are bad for the game;

> 1. They allow no level of customization, with the exception of dyes.

That's not zero then.

> 2. The purchase in the Gem Store is never worth it financially compared to Weapon Skins or Armor Skins, heck... even Glider and Mount Skins.

Subjective much?

> 3. Some of the outfits are tailored towards some races better than others, it's intuitive that Sylvari, Norn and Human get more aesthetic appeal than Asura or Charr.

>

I guess? I honestly wouldn't mind outfits specifically for a set of the races (or just one) so long as the price reflects that. The problem is, when they make a skin for the body, they are forced to make one for every race and sex rather than just the ones that it suits best.

> Why I think Outfits are good for the game;

> 1. They help bring some Nostalgia and tie in Lore to customers like myself.

I have no nostalgia for gw1.

> 2. They can bring in looks that are "out of world"

That is the main appeal to them. They don't have to fit every part of it to a corresponding equipment slot.

> 3. They are purely cosmetic and offer no functional in-game differences.

>

Um, what? That's any skin or dye.

> I would propose that the GW2 Team heavily consider changing all outfits to individual armor pieces, and discontinue outfits how they are currently made. I know personally I would purchase more items from the Gem Store if they were individualistic armor pieces.

I propose the GW2 team heavily consider dropping the concept of armor pieces and focus solely on outfits as well as more options to customize them (such as turning parts of them off). As for the prices, that is likely another topic to discuss.

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> All of them. Unless you have arthritis which might make clicking challenging but then the whole game is probably literally painful.

>

> or you if mean it is expensive but that has nothing to do with being complex.

That's a bit disingenuous. When I cook (and I do cook food for my characters so they have snacks for the road), I'm always needing to either:

1. Needing to go purchase some specific ingredient from a karma vendor that I need to wiki to find which one.

a. that is, after I check the trading post to see if the specific product made is cheaper to buy directly.

b. making sure the other components used to make the food don't exceed the price of the food itself

2. Needing to go farm specific areas for ingredients that are bound but this is usually more a note for future cooking sessions.

3. Wiki foods that likely have better effects, are cheap and can't be crafted.

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"mauried.5608" said:

> > > In an MMO you are not compelled to do everything.

> > > In fact there are no rules which define what playing a MMO even means , so content which for whatever reason you dont like , you dont have to do.

> > > There is no point in becoming frustrated by certain types of content.

> > > Just do the things you like.

> > >

> >

> > Was this directed toward my post?

> >

> > Again, this seems rather beside the point. Just because all content isn't meant for all players, should we just ignore the prospect of improvement?

> >

> > That isn't to say any change could be an improvement, but we're in the context of discussion and brainstorming here. Wouldn't you want your content to be more robust? Or are you looking at the subject as if the content will just be dumbed down and made worse?

>

> My concern is that, to date, from what I recall, dumbed down and made worse is a pretty sold description of what occurs when ANet tampers with content in response to this sort of discussion.

>

> I am not at all opposed to seeking to improve the game, but that is the opposite (IMO) of what seems to be on the table here.

That's why I feel it's an apt opportunity to try and get a discussion going on ways to make both parties happy.

> @"mauried.5608" said:

> In an MMO you are not compelled to do everything.

> In fact there are no rules which define what playing a MMO even means , so content which for whatever reason you dont like , you dont have to do.

> There is no point in becoming frustrated by certain types of content.

> Just do the things you like.

>

Was this directed toward my post?

Again, this seems rather beside the point. Just because all content isn't meant for all players, should we just ignore the prospect of improvement?

That isn't to say any change could be an improvement, but we're in the context of discussion and brainstorming here. Wouldn't you want your content to be more robust? Or are you looking at the subject as if the content will just be dumbed down and made worse?

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > Ive never raided.

> > >

> > > I dont have even one full set of ascended gear for even one character (though I do have ascended trinkets)

> > >

> > > I dont run a meta build.

> > >

> > > I play very casually.

> > >

> > > I have the reflexes of a man approaching 50.

> > >

> > > I have never had a problem with LS instance difficulty (even if I do have other concerns about LS).

> >

> > .

> > > @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> > > I can guarantee you that I'm not a great player, but I can solo all of the LS naked, just for you. I'm on EU, I usually play on Saturdays, between 11:00-16:00 server time.

> >

> > And I feel either of these posts are quite beside the point (if you read the intent of the quoted posts). You're not disproving someone else's experience with an experience of your own.

>

> I responded to someone wbo claimed that anyone who felt that the current difficulty was fine was a raider and elite player outfitted in top tier gear.

>

> Since he was commenting about me, dispelling his inaccurate statements is appropriate. I am in no way claiming that others' experiences are invalid...but I am responding to someone who, essentially, is.

That why I said "if you read the intent". I mean, sure we can spin our wheels correcting each other on particular statements but how close does that get us to getting the devs to make improvements to the game? And this is an epidemic of practically every forum. I'll admit, I do like giving the old one-two to someone's ill-conceived posts/threads too but if you've got any stock in the health of the game why not think of ways to make it better for more players?

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> Ive never raided.

>

> I dont have even one full set of ascended gear for even one character (though I do have ascended trinkets)

>

> I dont run a meta build.

>

> I play very casually.

>

> I have the reflexes of a man approaching 50.

>

> I have never had a problem with LS instance difficulty (even if I do have other concerns about LS).

.

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> I can guarantee you that I'm not a great player, but I can solo all of the LS naked, just for you. I'm on EU, I usually play on Saturdays, between 11:00-16:00 server time.

And I feel either of these posts are quite beside the point (if you read the intent of the quoted posts). You're not disproving someone else's experience with an experience of your own.

> @"Lord Kreegan.8123" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > To keep things in perspective of someone overseeing possible improvements to the game, this thread is extremely contradictory thus most of the feedback from this is likely going to be brushed off. You have some saying this or that is dumb while another says it's fine, or this and that is too hard while another says its easy. It's taking personal opinion multiple steps out of bounds that it's difficult to distill any semblance of direction from what should be discussed (and coming from a poster who often times plays devil's advocate in topics, it's pretty split to the extreme).

> >

> > This all just seems like spinning wheels in mud if neither end of the conversation is either willing to put down the hyperbole stick or give some metric to gauge their perspective from.

>

> The ones saying everything is fine and easy are the raiders with their Ascended gear; the ones saying it's dumb and too hard are "_regular_" players. So, what is different from every other game?

> Elitists inevitably say everything is fine and dandy and easy -- noting that they have the gear "_regular_" players do not have. They're the ones always castigating other players and telling them that the game doesn't need to be easier... everyone else just need to "learn to play", gear up, and use the same spec they use...

> Of course, those same elitists are the ones telling everyone that they don't need raid gear if they're not raiding...

> Talking out of both sides of the mouth is a skill reserved for elitists and white knights. The rest of us shouldn't bother to go there if we want to maintain any sense of integrity...

> Unfortunately, ANet made the decision -- stupidly, IMHO -- to cater to the elitists and forget about all of their everyday, casual players... those players who constitute more than 90% of the base. But stupid management decisions are not something we can overcome.

Well I feel there can be a constructive middle ground to be had that benefits "elitists", "casuals" and those in-between. Most would say swinging the pendulum either way will just enrage the opposite side but why not just have measures to scale difficulty to make the content harder or easier? Even shift it in such a way that it's actually beneficial to play around on both ends of the scale...

I think each craft has room to have an element of unique tiered aspects to them but can agree with the OP to some degree.

Like jeweler has the ability of using dust to transmogrify smaller less refined jewels into larger nuggets and such. I don't have too much of a problem crafting certain lower tiers of food into other tiers of food but it can become rediculous when a high tier food requires some 5+ tiers of food to be upgraded, not to mention a lot of the lower tier of food can be extremely redundant even at lower levels. I feel they can combine some food tiers (or eliminate some foods but broaden the level of similar foods) so that the tiered system can work better for food upgrades.

> @"Elva.6372" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > To keep things in perspective of someone overseeing possible improvements to the game, this thread is extremely contradictory thus most of the feedback from this is likely going to be brushed off. You have some saying this or that is dumb while another says it's fine, or this and that is too hard while another says its easy. It's taking personal opinion multiple steps out of bounds that it's difficult to distill any semblance of direction from what should be discussed (and coming from a poster who often times plays devil's advocate in topics, it's pretty split to the extreme).

> >

> > This all just seems like spinning wheels in mud if neither end of the conversation is either willing to put down the hyperbole stick or give some metric to gauge their perspective from.

>

> Perhaps spinning wheels if one doesn't understand the distinct difference between open world,/raids/ dungeons and story content, and why "story mode" (LW/PS) is not the proper place to put in these type challenges -it exists to propel and progress the game's story. Lengthy boss fights, aggravating mechanics and long drawn out encounters are notconducive to moving the story forward for ALL PLAYERS.

>

> So, the solution is simple:

>

> Make a story mode for story mode...

>

> Or stop locking "bought and paid for" game content behind story mode ordeals.

I say spinning wheels because you're looking at the issue from a very particular perspective with a very particular desired outcome while ignoring the preferences of the rest of the players to promote a particular type of playstyle.

For instance, you say the difference between open world, raids, dungeons and story but fail to acknowledge that there already is a difference between them. Dungeons and fractals aren't as easy as the story mode nor is the story mode so difficult it requires a group. Or you say that story progression, lengthy boss fights and so forth do not belong together but fail to acknowledge that it has been an industry standard since the dawn of MMORPS that they have put them together.

This isn't a post calling you out, I'm just saying we cannot identify the issue and suggest a solution when you misrepresent the argument, evidence and grievences to win a forum debate.