Leo G.4501

> @"Arakiel GhostEyes.4598" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"Arakiel GhostEyes.4598" said:

> > > Can't wait to do even less dmg and be unable to build malice cause of evade spam, stealth, general mesmeryness or just being out of range and obstructed all the time.

> >

> > Well obviously, they'll tack on some kind of buff to your auto attack for 3 shots to super charge your damage after a successful DJ...because spamming autos, that's more compelling gameplay!

>

> I don't understand what you mean. What does the auto attack have to do with malice losing the passive dmg buff or with malice requiring you to do dmg with initiative costing skills to build ? Not to mention that apparently deadeyes now has to build around using their stealth attack to maximise malice usage.

>

> And since you mention spamming how is spamming 3 round burst to build malice to then stealth into DJ any different from spamming autos until malice got full and you used DJ ?

Well I say that because there's no rule stating you need full malice (or any malice) to use DJ. To counter your complaint of being unable to hit the target enough, the devs would likely give you some watered down alternative to the previous style with the suggestion that it's more active and compelling than how it used to be. In the perspective of PvP (which I'm not a PvPer), I bet nothing will be done to compensate the projectile hate that Cursed Bullet dealt with but you'll now be forced to use stealth to attain the damage you had before minus the unblockable shot.

> @"Arakiel GhostEyes.4598" said:

> Can't wait to do even less dmg and be unable to build malice cause of evade spam, stealth, general mesmeryness or just being out of range and obstructed all the time.

Well obviously, they'll tack on some kind of buff to your auto attack for 3 shots to super charge your damage after a successful DJ...because spamming autos, that's more compelling gameplay!

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> I hope this isn't one of those "good intentions, bad judgement" moments...

Good intentions, death's judgement?

But seriously, if you guys want to make this change, does it not work to make this malice-powered sneak attack style a trait to opt into? I'm sure someone can make such a style work with specific build conditions...but there's other builds that become obsolete if its mandatory.

> @"Zedek.8932" said:

> I wish my order (of the Whispers) would sent me and Agent Zrii on more missions together... Oh, heya, I am on the forums and clicked **POST COMMENT.**

She's top 5 asura females.

> @"stone cold.8609" said:

> It sounds like the new system will be a bit like warrior adrenaline - spend initiative (i.e. attack) to gain malice (i.e. adrenaline). After it is built up, gain a stealth based more powerful attack (i.e. burst). Did I get this right?

>

> I wonder how the melee builds will work with this and hope there is a good non-sniper rifle based build that will come out of this.

That's probably the reason I'm not all that interested in this change. If I want to play that type of gameplay, I can play one of my warriors. If they initially released DE as a war inspired thf spec, that would be different. Instead they are taking away one play style to give me another I can already play.

Why can't this be tied to a trait? This is the same deal with Spirit Weapons and Phantasms. You can make a trait that changes the aspect you're looking at and then tailor the other aspects from there. It'd be very simple. Make the Grandmaster trait the part that does it while making the minor traits have differing effects depending on the GM trait.

At least a quarter of the time, I'm using mark to get into stealth but if you need to hit something to gain malice, that's kind of a useless gesture, isn't it?

> @"Thar.9465" said:

> I'd welcome it if outfits were abandoned completely. A single armor set adds more customization options than 20 outfits could and it would need only one great part for me to want it, unlike with outfits which need to be outright perfect.

> I made the mistake of buying one once because I thought an aspect I didn't like wouldn't bother me that much. I was terribly wrong. After a few days I couldn't stand the buttcape anymore and never used the outfit again. As a result I'll probabloy never buy one again.

> As for the "need" to make single sets for every weight class. It doesn't really matter anymore whether they look distinct. Specific looks for weight classes have already been thrown out of the window with outfits, so they could look all the same for all I care. In fact, it would be welcome, since that would probably add more variety, which is still severly lacking with still no real pants for light armor or the overwhelming amount of trenchcoats for medium armor.

Well good news! 70% of your armor sets will be buttcapes too so you can hate 70% of the skins that take 1600% longer to make XD

> @"Samnang.1879" said:

> i think they have too much on their plate... and not enough chefs...

I would assume, if they have too much on their plates, then their chefs are doing too good a job filling said plate...

Just saying, my asura warrior felt some chemistry between himself and Livia during those few trips they had together...

I think the biggest thing is not to get your expectations too high. The changes likely won't be night and day and after the patch, underwater combat is instantly the bee's knees. Things will likely be incremental with the next patch being the first step to improvement.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > Almost by definition, if an elite spec is good at **anything**, equal in power to another trait line that does a similar thing, it's a direct upgrade to the class. Let's just say that the Mirage trait line was equal in power to the Duelist and Chaos trait lines in terms of it's potency with condition damage just as a complete hypothetical. By definition Mirage is a direct improvement over core Mesmer DPS because now you're able to run three trait lines that all buff your condition damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Scrapper is 100% an upgrade to Engineer's defensive capabilities. Just by virtue of being able to three defensively orientated trait lines at once. It's just that specific type of survivability isn't encouraged in PvE.

> > > >

> > > > I think it is more regarding the role and functionality. **Any elite will always be better at something,** but it is supposed to be something then class was not good at or changes the overall class functionality.

> > >

> > > Again, the argument from the OP is that they shouldn't be. You're arguing for him while arguing the exact opposite of the purpose of the thread.

> >

> > The only way to be a side grade is to be better at something than core. If it weren't, it would be a redundant copy.

> >

> > At this point, we're arguing semantics. If you honestly feel that if an elite spec does something better than core, no other context, that automatically makes it an upgrade, that is the end of this discussion.

> >

> > Btw, the OP didn't argue anything, it stated the prospect of sidegrade and upgrade and asked poster opinion. It said nothing about should or shouldn't.

>

> That's literally what I said. Is this directed to me or are you just adding to what I've said because it's weird to direct my argument at me in a way that's presented like you're disagreeing with me.

>

Perhaps you misunderstood what I said. You argued "if an elite spec is good at anything, equal in power to another trait line that does a similar thing, it's a direct upgrade to the class..." while I said "The only way to be a side grade is to be better at something than core..."

That isn't literally what you said. You're arguing from the perspective, if the trait line can be blended/played in a way that makes it do something better than core, it is an upgrade but fail to understand that an opportunity cost is still paid to blend that spec to perform that way and if it wasn't able to perform in some way to make it stand out from other specs, it would basically be an underperforming or redundant version of the core spec.

You're defining sidegrade differently which is the root of the dissonance here.

> @"Hoodie.1045" said:

> Dragonhunter is the worst specialization for guardian not only because they were hated when HoT launched, but because of how selfish the profession is. It focuses on shooting arrows at you, then pulling you into their traps to deal a lot of damage which is both lame and not heterosexual.

Is that a bad thing? That being the spec is selfish. Considering core guardian is kind of mixed regarding personal DPS and team support, so a spec that takes the support rich profession and takes a new direction seems to be the purpose of elite specs. Like, if Warrior gets a new elite spec that aims at long range attacks and support/sustain (like maybe a Paragon with a throwing spear and some kind of capabilities to fill out a team support role that isn't spamming might) would be bad? Or all the players that constantly bemoan Ranger and begged for a pet-free spec?

No, I think it's a good thing to veer away from the norms of the base profession (veer, not abandon) to make the specs varied for players that like specific professions or playstyles.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > Almost by definition, if an elite spec is good at **anything**, equal in power to another trait line that does a similar thing, it's a direct upgrade to the class. Let's just say that the Mirage trait line was equal in power to the Duelist and Chaos trait lines in terms of it's potency with condition damage just as a complete hypothetical. By definition Mirage is a direct improvement over core Mesmer DPS because now you're able to run three trait lines that all buff your condition damage.

> > >

> > > Scrapper is 100% an upgrade to Engineer's defensive capabilities. Just by virtue of being able to three defensively orientated trait lines at once. It's just that specific type of survivability isn't encouraged in PvE.

> >

> > I think it is more regarding the role and functionality. **Any elite will always be better at something,** but it is supposed to be something then class was not good at or changes the overall class functionality.

>

> Again, the argument from the OP is that they shouldn't be. You're arguing for him while arguing the exact opposite of the purpose of the thread.

The only way to be a side grade is to be better at something than core. If it weren't, it would be a redundant copy.

At this point, we're arguing semantics. If you honestly feel that if an elite spec does something better than core, no other context, that automatically makes it an upgrade, that is the end of this discussion.

Btw, the OP didn't argue anything, it stated the prospect of sidegrade and upgrade and asked poster opinion. It said nothing about should or shouldn't.

> @"Ojyh.9842" said:

>Both clipping and the ever growing lack of Customization.

This sounds rather like an oxymoron. Are they taking away options? How can a lack of something grow?

> @"Zeivu.3615" said:

> There was a time long ago when a toon to could 'preview' different armor types simultaneously. It was a kitten mess. I can see being able switch between cloth, leather and heavy rig setups, but what you are asking for just isn't reasonable.

Were there any pics?

Would also appreciate if outfits got the mount treatment and saved the dyes for that outfit.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > Almost by definition, if an elite spec is good at **anything**, equal in power to another trait line that does a similar thing, it's a direct upgrade to the class. Let's just say that the Mirage trait line was equal in power to the Duelist and Chaos trait lines in terms of it's potency with condition damage just as a complete hypothetical. By definition Mirage is a direct improvement over core Mesmer DPS because now you're able to run three trait lines that all buff your condition damage.

> > >

> > > Scrapper is 100% an upgrade to Engineer's defensive capabilities. Just by virtue of being able to three defensively orientated trait lines at once. It's just that specific type of survivability isn't encouraged in PvE.

> >

> > It depends. Just because you gain something over something else doesn't automatically mean upgrade. In your mirage example, if you gain more DPS by running 3 DPS lines rather than just 2, you're still giving up something, be it utility, sustain, cooldown reduction. By definition and how the trait lines are set up, you're always giving up something for something else. It's called opportunity cost.

> >

> > That's why I wouldn't so simply measure DPS or whatever as the deciding factor for if something is an upgrade or not. It's what you gain vs what you lose/what it costs to use what you gain.

> >

> > I literally know nothing about Mirage (for all I know, it is an Upgrade), but I'm sure there are other examples where the end product might result in a better version statistically but that can easily change if the numbers are tweeked. In which case, I suppose that means I'm more looking at the intent of the spec rather than its min/max performance.

>

> Mirage Axe and it's Ambush Attack with Infinite Horizon is a direct upgrade for condition damage mesmers but the bulk of that comes from Axe actually being a good weapon for condition damage in PvE. Scepter in particular was really, really bad. Mirage let's you run Dueling+Mirage+Illusions/Chaos. Chaos is better sustained DPS in PvE, while Illusions is better for shatter burst damage making it better in PvP.

>

> Chronomancer is geared towards being a defensive, support spec, quality of life spec. It has a ton of quickness and alacrity it can share to allies, shield is an amazing defensive weapon.

>

> They're both direct upgrades to core mesmer but they're side grades to each other and incomparable. It's a similar care to Druid and Soulbeast, Berseker and Spellbreaker, Weaver and Tempest. That's the intent behind Elite Specializations.

For one, doing better condi than core isn't itself an upgrade unless condi is itself superior to power. Like I said, I don't really know much about Mirage or Chronomancer, I just know that my phantasm or shatter mesmer is gutted and haven't played it. You likely are right that the Mesmer elites are upgrades but that isn't what all elites are, which is the purpose of the thread.

And I am not super into Weaver but I do know Tempest and while it has a lot of DPS potential and support potential, it comes at a cost. That cost is being in close quarters to use overloads, having to stay in an attunement for a time to have access to that overload, the long cast time of the overload and the cooldown it puts on that attunement. Granted, there are ways to circumvent some of the costs, but not all of the costs. And because there's a cost, it's not really an upgrade unless you just ignore the cost in your assessment.

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> Almost by definition, if an elite spec is good at **anything**, equal in power to another trait line that does a similar thing, it's a direct upgrade to the class. Let's just say that the Mirage trait line was equal in power to the Duelist and Chaos trait lines in terms of it's potency with condition damage just as a complete hypothetical. By definition Mirage is a direct improvement over core Mesmer DPS because now you're able to run three trait lines that all buff your condition damage.

>

> Scrapper is 100% an upgrade to Engineer's defensive capabilities. Just by virtue of being able to three defensively orientated trait lines at once. It's just that specific type of survivability isn't encouraged in PvE.

It depends. Just because you gain something over something else doesn't automatically mean upgrade. In your mirage example, if you gain more DPS by running 3 DPS lines rather than just 2, you're still giving up something, be it utility, sustain, cooldown reduction. By definition and how the trait lines are set up, you're always giving up something for something else. It's called opportunity cost.

That's why I wouldn't so simply measure DPS or whatever as the deciding factor for if something is an upgrade or not. It's what you gain vs what you lose/what it costs to use what you gain.

I literally know nothing about Mirage (for all I know, it is an Upgrade), but I'm sure there are other examples where the end product might result in a better version statistically but that can easily change if the numbers are tweeked. In which case, I suppose that means I'm more looking at the intent of the spec rather than its min/max performance.

> @"Lazze.9870" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> this 6-pieces-connected-to -stats system won't allow *actual* creative freedom.

> >

>

> GW2 is actually probably *the* game I've come across with the best system allowing you to customize your look without "outfits" or "layered armor skins".

Well let me tell you about this game with HUGE creative freedom. For one, it doesn't restrict you to 6 (technically 7) parts that you could customize, rather any part of a character, from its face, to its eyes and ears, to its neck and size/type of head, could be customized. Ignoring the specific aspects that could be related to character creation, the amount of options for clothing type, texture and color could never be touched by a 7-piece armor system when considering clothes alone. But it doesn't end there. On top of the clothes options, you could customize the body of the character to an extend you could effectively create a unique race. Further still, customizing aspects like how the character stands, walks and runs, the choosing of animations for skills, dying the skill effects like you would armor...all that within multiple templates so that you could swap to alternate highly customized cosmetic creations with but a choice in a menu.

GW2 is far and away from being the best customization systems, even when *not* compared to the *actual* bests. It's rife with restrictions and pitfalls (why does my outfits not keep their unique dying? why does cultural skin ascended bar you from putting it on another race rather than just not show up when equipped? why must I have swaths of my inventory used to have multiple looks?). I'm not saying with all of that, that this is all a lost cause, just that it is not the best and it can be better...never the best tho.

My perspective is, GW2 may not do custom armor as well as some of its competition, but what it does do best (or nearly the best) is its races. You could almost fit Tera in there for race variety but the fact they lock most of their new classes by race is the point they are rocket propelled to the worst. I heard ESO is quite good with its races too, lore-wise, but IMO, they still look like reskinned humans with tails, ears and tusks. Not only are GW2's races distinct with fleshed out world building around them, but they're varied visually as well as their speech, tone and attitude. If you want to back something that GW2 does great, why not its races?

They would need to be more controllable to be more effective. One reason whirl and projectile combos seem so weak is because they're often uncontrollable.

They might be able to enhance combos and fields by enhancing the system with something...like giving everyone a combo meter that builds up for performing normal combos and then when its full, expend it to perform a single SUPER COMBO which would require someone using their combo meter + a field to start and then someone else using their combo meter + a combo skill...

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > Hey everyone.

> >

> > I was thinking about e-specs today, and some of the intention behind them was to make them sidegrades, not direct upgrades. So which e-specs do you think actually met that goal?

> >

> > This poll is about the medium classes. I would say of the medium classes, scrapper is the closest to a sidegrade. Scrapper is only superior to core engineer in one aspect: Tankiness. Otherwise, it is not a damage increase, nor a utility increase.

>

> They've always been upgrades to core classes by design. The idea that elite specs are never going to enhance a specific aspect of a class beyond what it's already capable of is nonsense. That was never their intent. Otherwise the spec would have zero place in the game.

>

> They're sidegrades to other elite specializations, which are all designed with unique rolls from each other.

I don't particularly agree. The elite specs *are* meant to enhance a specific aspect of the class beyond what is normally capable but usually at some cost or loss of something else. Tempest does give you upgraded attunement buttons but the cost is the cast time and cooldown it adds, Spellbreaker does upgrade your class bar by adding an extra counter button but you give up the ability to use bursts effects above 1 bar.

I personally think Deadeye seemed more a side-grade than Daredevil because DD didn't give anything up or pay anything for what it gets but Deadeye looses the ability to shadowstep to the target with steal and traded its normal steal skills for its malice marks.

Haven't played Holo and not much Scrapper, haven't touched Druid either but Soulbeast feels like an upgrade as you just get more ways to manage your pet + more skills to play with + on-merg effects in conjunction with your pet commands and on pet-swap traits...but even as an upgrade, I don't think people perceive it as more powerful than Druid which seems also like an upgrade...

> @"Liewec.2896" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > you're ignoring the fact that light, medium and heavy are separate classifications with separate design goals (blame the devs for that), so they don't want to just take, for example, the Balthazar's Regalia outfit and make it available for light or medium (ignoring the different anchor points of those classifications). And it's not that there are "weird cut off points", it's that for a lot of the outfits (ex: again Balthazar's Regalia) there are no cut off points.

>

> as i pointed out, there is no thematic weights anymore, outfits have already seen to that

> i also pointed out that there are plenty of armours already in the game with random looking cut off points because they are designed to be used as a set. (no cut off points)

>

Unfortunately, there are thematic weights. Some armor skins cannot be mixed with other skins of other armor weights. I've heard there were means to view armor weight mixing in the preview window (but its been patched or something?) and it wasn't so bad in a lot of the skins, but I'm just expressing the limits the system has, not if they are inadaquate to you or me.

I bet if they really wanted to, Anet might be able to make some of the outfits work as armor skins if sectioned off and remade as such but you still have the issues with parity and their goals to keep light, medium and heavy themes separate. While some sets, like the Iron Clad outfit, could be created as armor pieces for heavy armor, you might start to see shift in parity as more outfits would be categorized as light and heavy than medium.

And you're really not getting the whole "cut off point" thing...not to mention that "cut off points" differ with the armor weights. The gloves, boots, shoulders and helms are likely the same but the body and legs are not shared across weights.

> @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > > @"aspirine.6852" said:

> > > > @"Amaranthe.3578" said:

> > > > Gearing in GW2 is ridiculously easy man

> > >

> > > Ok I'll bite, how is it easy? After coming back from not playing this game for a while all of my chars armour runes and weapons are outdated. So what do I do :)

> >

> > How are they outdated? I tend to play sporatically, taking long breaks and then burn/grinding for a couple months before taking a break and I managed to make 2 ascended medium sets, 2 ascended heavy sets, 1 ascended light and a plethora of exotics and materials to make more ascended once I get enough of the costly ascended stuff. They are all still relevent and not outdated and apparently, I can change the stats of my ascended gear to other stats (only tried once, changing a carrion set to grieving).

> >

> >

>

> They are all core sets. Like berserker, or soldiers for WvW. I have a few ascended trinkets and rings, but they can never be changed again....

Are they ascended armor?

I'm not the best to give advice for gearing up stuff to exotics. I tend to look at things from the aspect of long-term, even if I don't actually play long-term, so while I'll craft or buy some exotic gear to tide my build over, it's always in preperation of crafting ascended versions/the stat nomenclature I actually want. Of course, this all requires you farm for gold/materials, level up crafting and hoard time-gated materials.

Still, berserkers is a bread-n-butter set-up and if you have it ascended, you can use that on any character in that gear category, so you're not starting from scratch...

...oh, and hoard more ascended trinkets and rings. Half the time, my builds use similar armor but swaps out the weapon and jewelry stats. Maybe swap the runes, put some food on it and you're golden.

> @"czerwoni.9563" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > I have purchased a few outfits, and might have purchased others where the only thing stopping me was the shoulders, if they could be unchecked.

>

> grenth shoulders ick lol

As a proponent of outfits, I always advocate for better custom options for outfits. But since most are on the "All armor or bust" bandwagon, it's hard to actually get enough support to make a loud enough suggestions.

It's a very realistic request, to ask the devs for the option to turn parts of outfits off (we can already do this with headgear). Since there is also an option for armor to turn off the shoulders, it can't be insurrmountable to suggest something similar for outfits as well. Further still, since they specifically design some outfits with certain dye channels, toggle-able headgear and such, why not create the outfits from the outset to have certain parts you can turn off and on? While I'm sure there would be more time required for such an additional feature, it can become minimalized once you streamline the feature over time.

Just imagine: the devs finally release an outfit that is a swimsuit. For your female, it's a 2-piece with a loose open-buttoned long-sleeve shirt with the sleeves rolled up and a pair of flip-flops. For swimwear, that might be too much...but in the outfits screen, there are separate toggles to turn off the shirt and the sandals. It'd not only be something you have more creative freedom to work with, but it would be an inherent feature that you can utilize to down-grade your attire just as you would real clothes.

> @"Liewec.2896" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > The problem is that armor costs about 10 times more to make than outfits and takes far longer to make. The time to make a set of armor for 5 races and 2 sexes is about 9 months and that is not appreciably reduced just because they have an outfit to look at while making the armors.

>

> but they have already designed the outfits for both genders for all races...

> literally all that is left to do is separate them into parts.

> and as i said, weird cut off points isn't an issue because we already have armours with weird cut of points that work well when used correctly.

>

> take the outfit, split it into parts, done.

If that were the process involved, that would be the process they use to make armor, i.e. design a costume, render it, split it into parts and code it into the wardrobe.

Again, you're ignoring the fact that light, medium and heavy are separate classifications with separate design goals (blame the devs for that), so they don't want to just take, for example, the Balthazar's Regalia outfit and make it available for light or medium (ignoring the different anchor points of those classifications). And it's not that there are "weird cut off points", it's that for a lot of the outfits (ex: again Balthazar's Regalia) there are no cut off points.

I'm not arguing that outfits MUST NEVER be split into armor skins, just pointing out that it's not as easy, quick or possibly finacially advantateous as you say it would be.