EdwinLi.1284

> @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > For all we know they may end up killing both Primodus, Jormag, and even Bubbles at the end of this Saga for all we know just to introduce the beginning of a new antagonist that may replace the Elder Dragons for a new story Arc set after the Elder Dragon story Arc ends.

>

> I certainly hope, they won't do that.

> Four episodes simply aren't enough build up for two dragons (Primordus and Selbbub),

> especially if we haven't even seen minions of one of them yet.

>

>

Well depend on the story after since even if they killed off Bubbles early, they may go done the story path of knowing Bubbles more through his/her past actions before that moment of death as part of End of Dragon's storyline to reflect and add on more towards the title's meaning to shows Bubble's path to his/her own end that we already seen. Some stories do go down this path with characters in their stories as it becomes a way to know about a character without actually needing the character to be alive to know them. It may leave a deep regret of never getting the chance to know Bubbles directly if he/she turns out to be a decent being but that is part of how this type of story telling works. To grow towards liking a character even when we know they will never see the future that their own actions leads into after their death nor live to see the end they died to create.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> Unfortunately. I do hope there is some kind of twist ending, and Primordus ends up living past this.

>

> Trying to jam two dragons into one arm would be like if HoT switched from Mordremoth to Bubbles in Tangled Depths and Dragon's Stand.

Perhaps but still too early to determine if this is possible or not yet.

For all we know they may end up killing both Primodus, Jormag, and even Bubbles at the end of this Saga for all we know just to introduce the beginning of a new antagonist that may replace the Elder Dragons for a new story Arc set after the Elder Dragon story Arc ends.

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> Sadly it seems Anet have gone that route. Just bizarre it really it is

>

> Half a season set up specifically to show why we must not trust Jormag. Why we are in conflict. Now we're supposed to believe we can enter a truce and trust them because of another Dragon? I mean that is so going to end well isn't it

>

> I don't think they even proof read their story arcs sometimes

We have to wait and see why the Truce happens.

Considering the episode's name, it is possible the events here is about what force the Commander's hand into accepting a truce with Jormag for now due to Primordius actions then having the Truce happen at the final moments of the episode.

I am curious what the timeframe will be once this champion act begins and ends since from currently newly added dialogue with Bangar, months have already past since events of Jormag Rising and no one has seen nor heard from Jormag since then. Only through Bangar has anyone known Jormag's current actions but only actions and not location.

I think the story mode of a Raid should not be a simple easier copy of the normal raid but more of a cinematic version of the raid storyline. Have it provide more story events that is not in the Normal Raid version of the Raid due to being a far more story focused and solo version of the Raid Storyline.

Maybe even going far as introducing new NPCs for these Story mode versions of the Raid Story mode to add on to the events and to act as the characters that provide tutorials to what to do with X and Y mechanics. It may provide a interesting new group of characters that the "commander" may develop bonds with outside of the Main storyline for these Raid storylines.

This way they can separate the experience of the Raid between a more Story focused version that has story style events before each boss fights and dialogues between the Player character and NPCs while a Normal Raid focused on large group battles against each raid boss using real players.

> @"anninke.7469" said:

> That's a bit different. The Pale Tree is the Commander's mother/deity if they're a sylvari. That's not some random mob group or a distant country based and unrelated organitazion.

Well to add to this for all races, the Pale Tree is the person who set the Commander on his/her path to become who he/she is now.

If not for the Pale tree, the Commander would not have gone through the events of the Dungeon Story Mode and get Destiny Edge to reconcile from what happened in their past.

Not to mention the commander aid with the formation of the Pact using his/her past connections to recruit some of the early members of the Pact due the Pale Tree shown the commander's importance to what will eventually happen in Zhaitan Arc.

Imaging if the Truce only happens at the ending of the upcoming episode because Jormag dies the end of the episode.

So anyone having issues with the Main Webpage being broken?


> @"RedCobra.7693" said:

> not really cantha related but im extremely excited for all the new elite specs, its the most exciting part of expansions for me. Lots of new armour skins for more fashion wars please too :)

It is still Cantha releated because we will know their Origin lore from the NPCs in Cantha that will explain the Elite Spec origins being Cantha origins like they did with most of PoF Elite Spec.

Revenant is the one Profession in question about having a Cantha origin Elite Spec because it is still new Profession to the world. The PoF one had a Charr origin since one of the first generation of Revenant named Gorea Halfcut created it when trying to see what Charr Legends she can summon using the Revenant's power but technically it can be consider Elona origin because she found the link in Elona while traveling around there.

A similar case may happen for EoD Revenant Elite Spec with another first generation Revenant creating the EoD Elite Spec for Revenant due to discover a link to a specific Legend in Cantha.

Not to mention the bunch of new Cantha themed skins.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

>

> The chances of there being some norn colony in Cantha is **very** slim, especially with the anti-non-human attitude the Ministry of Purity had, and with how norn seem to be more-or-less confirmed kodan descendants at this point _and_ non-interactive with humans until the Ministry of Purity were an active thing.

That will depend on the lore they present in Cantha though and as i said it is only a potential possibility I am speculating and not absolute certainty.

What we know in GW1 is not everything about the world but only the parts the developers believe is important to the story and the parts of the world we interacted with.

If a Cantha Norn Secret Society does exists then we will know very little about them currently. Not to mention how different they maybe from the Norn we know due to living under far different climate conditions and environment such as their manners, their cultural beliefs, their physical appearance differences, and etc. Then there is their unknown history for being there and reason for being there such as were they always there but we never explored far enough in GW1 to meet them, did they get separate during somepoint in history, and etc.

Not to mention a lot of questions involving why they choose to remain in secret for so long and why Hyo-Sonn maybe the exception.

We can never be certain with anything now due to how far we are still from Cantha Expansion and the developers only wants to leave us questions for now.

> @"Svennis.3852" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > Canthans won't be idiotic. They'll know how to differentiate a "really tall human" from a 8 foot tall shapeshifter that gives off more body heat than others. Hyo-Sonn is 99.99% to be pure human bred. And Hyo-Sonn won't be the first oversized human either: Turai Ossa, Shiro Tagachi, and the various Guild Lord npcs of GW1 were all oversized humans. _Canonically_ for Turai Ossa.

> >

> > People liked to postulate some norn heritage in Turai Ossa, only to be proven that humans and norn cannot interbreed, and Turai is pure human. I think WP was among those calling Turai a norn-descendant too.

> >

> > The chances of there being some norn colony in Cantha is **very** slim, especially with the anti-non-human attitude the Ministry of Purity had, and with how norn seem to be more-or-less confirmed kodan descendants at this point _and_ non-interactive with humans until the Ministry of Purity were an active thing.

>

> Most likely you're right, and they're going for a Brienne of Tarth vibe for the character. I think the hope that the campaign won't just be a solely human-focused campaign is strong, and to me it's kind of boring that non-human races feel so limited to one specific area of the world. Especially with non-humans being native to the planet, it's odd that they aren't more widespread. I don't doubt Canthans couldn't figure out the difference between humans and norn, but I could see them using norn until they don't need them anymore. Honestly, though, if hypothetical Canthan norn are anything like those in the Shiverpeaks, I find it hard to believe they would align with the Ministry of Purity.

>

> I'll cling to hope, but I don't expect to be right lol.

That depends on who Hyo-Sonn maybe is. It is common to assume everything in Cantha now is just Human due to what happened in Wind of Change.

However, if a society of Canthan Norns do exist their culture may not even call themselves Norn. The habits of a race that is separated from each other to live within different cultures, environments, and etc can greatly differ from each other to a point they don't call their race the samething depending on the amount of time they have been separated from each other.

It is like the word Human, everyone can call one another a Human just by their appearance alone regardless of their height if they meet the expected physical appearance. However, a civilization far from the civilization that classify themselves as Human may call themselves something else even when everyone in that civilization are Humans since the word Human does not exists within their culture.

For example, if expedition into unknown regions of lands never explored in GW1 and GW2 allows representatives of current known society to meet a new civilization that have never interacted with them before, their classification of themselves as a race maybe another word despite our current known society will just call them Human.

Honestly, I expect either Warrior or Guardian to get a Elite Spec about Purging the lands of enemies due to being founded by Ministry of Purity.

Either Warrior/Guardian gets a off-handed Pistol Elite Spec or a Guardian gets a Rifle Elite Spec.

Make it so that they embody the Zealot ideas of the Ministry of Purity soldiers about exterminating Xenos because they are not Human and Heretics that does not believe in the Ministry of Purity's cause.

> @"The Greyhawk.9107" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> >It may be interesting if the Cantha Expansion are individually created by each organization we know about in GW1 cantha such as a Guardian Elite Spec created by the Ministry of Purity after events of GW1 about Purifying things like a Space Marine (warhammer 40K) of GW2 world.

> 

>

>

>

>

Hey if there is a Xeno hating and heretic purging crazy organization then you know there is only one outcome that will appear from it.

Either way we will need to go into Cantha and purge some heresy anyways.

> @"Poormany.4507" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > > @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > > > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > > > Either way I expect the Ministry of Purity, or atleast a certain faction from within, to be one of the antagonist or THE antagonist for Cantha expansion.

> > > Absolutely. Devs don't spend all this build up in GW1, and references in GW2, constantly hammering i nthe fact that "yes, the Ministry of Purity are evil, xenophobic, genocidal, warmongers" and then not do anything with it. If not the expansion then the associated Canthan LW season/saga at least.

> >

> > I honestly, also expect atleast a Elite Spec for Cantha expansion that is also influenced by the Ministry of Purity.

> >

> > Being a bunch of anti-Xeno people, or at least a certain faction, I expect maybe a new Warrior or Guardain Elite Spec that is about Purging the lands of enemies.

> >

> > After all it would be a interesting off-hand Pistol Elite Spec for Warrior and Guardian or at least a Rifle Elite Spec for Guardian. Modern issues with purging requires modern solutions and a spirit of a Space marine...I mean a Soldier from the Ministry of Purity to scream for the Emperor while calling your enemies Xeno scum.

>

> They do mention The [seven Canthan Spears](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/03_Nemnai_1637_CC) order in the Canthan royal military in one of the letters in the fractal, so maybe we'll get some kind of land-spear elite spec or mastery.

The name Seven Canthan Spears for the Royal Guards is more of a metaphor to what they represent than what type of weapon they use.

They are most likely called the Seven Canthan Spears because these Seven are considered the spearhead of the Emperor's and Minitry of Purity's ambitions when something needs to be done along with being the strongest within Cantha's forces.

Always leading the charge in the most crucial moments and operations just like a spear in a charge.

I will like to see the developments of Cantha City.

Have they added a place to be the...

Red Light District for adults to entertain themselves or do higher level criminal activites in secret?

Highest level for the richest members of socity live?

Have there been advancement to what kind of buildings the mid-class members of society live in?

new Minitry of Purity buildings all over the city for recruiting people and deploying guards?

How bad the undercity has become and how has it expanded over the 250 years?

Do they still sell three eye fish and say it is good quality and safe to eat?

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > Either way I expect the Ministry of Purity, or atleast a certain faction from within, to be one of the antagonist or THE antagonist for Cantha expansion.

> Absolutely. Devs don't spend all this build up in GW1, and references in GW2, constantly hammering i nthe fact that "yes, the Ministry of Purity are evil, xenophobic, genocidal, warmongers" and then not do anything with it. If not the expansion then the associated Canthan LW season/saga at least.

I honestly, also expect atleast a Elite Spec for Cantha expansion that is also influenced by the Ministry of Purity.

Being a bunch of anti-Xeno people, or at least a certain faction, I expect maybe a new Warrior or Guardain Elite Spec that is about Purging the lands of enemies.

After all it would be a interesting off-hand Pistol Elite Spec for Warrior and Guardian or at least a Rifle Elite Spec for Guardian. Modern issues with purging requires modern solutions and a spirit of a Space marine...I mean a Soldier from the Ministry of Purity to scream for the Emperor while calling your enemies Xeno scum.

Either way I expect the Ministry of Purity, or atleast a certain faction from within, to be one of the antagonist or THE antagonist for Cantha expansion.

For some reason I am getting a strange Wind of Change feeling if the Ministry of Purity are allies early in Cantha Expansion, or atleast in the beginning when we first arrive, something happens that causes the anti-Xeno faction to justify arresting the Commander and cutting the Commander and his/her allies from the others and trapping them in Cantha until the Cantha Expansion storyline is resolved with the death of who ever leads this Anti-Xeno Faction.

Of course if they have the Anti-Xeno Faction show their hands right in the beginning and successfully arrest the commander and his/her allies, it would be interesting if they separate the Commander from his/her allies thus early parts of the story focus on the Commander finding new allies before he/she can rescue or meet up with his/her current allies that are now captured or in hiding. However, I fear if they go down this path they may kill off a member or two current existing characters because of the Anti-Xeno Faction tortured them to death or near death by the time we find them.

Still it will be quite the, I don't know what to really call it but, irony if the Ministry of Purity ally , and probably new member to Dragon's Watch, who support opening up Cantha, wants to change Cantha's Xenophobic ways, and aid the commander against the Anti-Xeno Faction ends up being Zei Ri's descendent.

Honestly, when i made this post it was not about focusing on making the Plague the main focus of the Cantha storyline but as a side story or a very small part of the story that is easily resolved. Thus containing it within a single map located in the lowest part of Cantha City where only the desperate and poor will live.

In the past Cantha's only solution was to exterminate all those who are assumed infected or are infected. With current modern technology in GW2 we probably can resolve it story wise easily thus leaving the plague contained in that single map exclusively.

Of course I am also thinking about stuff like creating a Necro Elite Spec about using Jeijou knowledge about the plague to have mastery over the plague to a point this Plague Master Elite Spec knows how to control, spread, and cure the Plague along with other disease due to their extensive knowledge of disease and how they work. Thus creating a Elite Spec (probably specialize in pure condition damage) that focus on using leftover knowledge from surviving members of Am Fah that manage to get away and stay in hiding. So the topic may have been partly influenced by that. It may be interesting if the Cantha Expansion are individually created by each organization we know about in GW1 cantha such as a Guardian Elite Spec created by the Ministry of Purity after events of GW1 about Purifying things like a Space Marine (warhammer 40K) of GW2 world.

Speaking of Am Fah, did they ever find the identity of the Am Fah Leader?

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > Now that woodenpotatoes has collected and uploaded all Sunqua Peak lore items in a video....

> >

> > Braham seems like a possible member now due to the potential that a society of Canthan Norns exists in secret within Cantha.

>

> Thanks, haven‘t checked / read through the Sunqua lore yet, but will make sure to check it out after your comment.

> Braham is one of the characters I like most of the group (even though many seem to dislike him).

They only dislike him because he was in his angry teenager phase of life. He has mellowed out of that phase now but still trying to find his place in the world. The way they currently present his story about accepting responsibility for his past action when he was still a angry teenager is not being present properly though because people feel the whole "chosen one" plot is being forced on Braham. In a way Braham is someone who just does not know where to go in his life yet, he is just chasing the shadows of everyone he knows as the only guide he has in his life for now.

With a Canthan Norn society in Cantha, he may finally find his place there but at the sametime it may lead to another Rox scenario where he consider to retire into the Canthan Norn society and only appear once the Commander rally all his/her allies.

However, it will be fine in my opinion because the boy has been struggling all his life trying to find a place in the world and it is not always easy to find that place growing up.

Now that woodenpotatoes has collected and uploaded all Sunqua Peak lore items in a video....

Braham seems like a possible member now due to the potential that a society of Canthan Norns exists in secret within Cantha.

Well the wait is over and here is his lore video covering the story for those who can't complete challenge mode and collect all lore items....

So how about that society of Canthan Norns?

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"WorldofBay.8160" said:

> > > @"Randulf.7614" said:

> > > I don't think it can. The plague existed purely due to Shiro's presence corrupting living organisms. No Shiro means the plague eventually dissipated as the remaining afflicted would have been hunted down.

> >

> > i am surprised nobody mentioned it yet but lots of commanders will bring shiro back!

> > imagine the revenant commander suddenly corrupting cantha civilians because he has shiro equipped

>

> Well, it isn't the real Shiro. It's an echo of Shiro who - based on the dialogue - seems to be an echo of pre-Factions Shiro. The entire lack of any hint or implication of following a dark god does imply pre-Nightfall at least.

Not going to lie, a part of me hope they take into account the Revenant ability to have Shiro mist soul thing in their heads and have special dialogues from him and conversation between the commander and Shiro that pops up on specific points in the storyline if players are Revenants.

It will certainly make the experience unique for Revenant players like how unique Sylvari players experience is in Heart of Thorns.

On the Ryland point, before the current story a part of me expect Ryland to maybe get a redemption arc in the future if he lives through Icebrood Saga.

Sadly since he has reached the point of no return that belief has reach from a slightly to absolute zero unless Anet can some how pull him out of the dark side.

However, if so I always speculated that with Ryland joining the group for a redemption arc Rytlock may have to retire from the group. due to events that cause Ryland to return back to our side. Not the "get killed off" type of retirement but more of a suffer serious injury that he can no longer fight type of retirement.

As for the others....

Kasmeer is certainly the person I expect to be among the characters for Cantha expansion. She has basically become Kryta's representative when it comes to political matters now.

Logan is in the middle level, while he is retired from the major character role, Logan is now the Pact Commander and always will appear now to represent the Pact in political and military matters when a Elder Dragon is involved. If the Cantha expansion does focus on DSD and their inventation to the Commander and his/her allies is the result of not being able to handle the DSD so they open their doors for our help then we can expect Logan to appear. However, there is still a chance we may get a old character returning to represent the Pact in this matter or a new character as well.

As a completely off chance and probably zero percent....

I still hope for the return of Razah.

With the Elder Dragons dragging themselves through the Mist more often now, it seems ideal to bring him back due to all the noise they have been making in the Mists.

It will also be interesting to see how much he has developed over the 250 years since back in GW1 he was a clean slate but in GW2 who can say what type of person he may have become due to centuries of studying human's different reasoning, emotions, and different nature.

She is just retired now.

As the story goes on, the characters will eventually find a time for themselves to retire from the group thus they only return during moments when the Commander needs to rally all his/her allies against a threat.

For Rox's case, she has retired from Dragon's Watch and become a member of the Olmakhan.

Her appearances are most likely only going to be during times when the Olmakhan are called on to aid the commander from now on.

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > > As I just wrote on the other thread: I got every bit of Li Bo's story, but not a single bit about the fractal's. What made the element(al)s so angry? And who was the final boss, as I don't recall her name from GW1?

> > > >

> > > > > @"Bast.7253" said:

> > > > > Well I feel like I remember reading those names on the graves, but it still doesn't really mean anything. Are they just a random family?

> > > >

> > > > Yes. The sad fate of Bo, Ai, and their daughter Lan (a tale of love, family, and war against the plague). It's their graves.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Perhaps the hint about Cantha the developers speaks about is not about the Fractal but the story of this family.

> > >

> > > You said the story is about this family and the war against the plague.

> > >

> > > Maybe the hint is about what this family went through.

> > >

> > > Perhaps the hint is related to the Plague.

> > >

> > > We maybe looking too much into the fractal as the hint itself but did not consider this little side story about this family and the Plague is the real hint or a important part of that hint about Cantha.

> >

> > There actually is no plague, the war is against the Kurzicks, though there is a single line about the Ministry talking about killing anyone who "shows signs" of affliction. No indication that there actually _is_ such though.

> >

> > > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > > If this shadow maybe linked to the DSD then it may support even more about the DSD control over Nightmares and using the emotions of nightmares (doubt, sorrow, and fear) to control beings.

> >

> > Weird why people are so obsessed with the DSD...

> >

> > Demons have a bigger history with nightmares and emotions of fear, and Cantha. And we did have a recent fractal dealing with a demon of darkness that possessed people... The Voice.

> >

> > Speaking of which, Arkk's story was a multi-fractal storyline, and the person who wrote that plot is the same person who is leading the current fractal team.

>

> Yeah looks like although the afflicted were eradicated, they were still using it as an excuse for genocide.

Either way we are getting a deeper clue into the possible status of Cantha once we get there.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > > @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > > As I just wrote on the other thread: I got every bit of Li Bo's story, but not a single bit about the fractal's. What made the element(al)s so angry? And who was the final boss, as I don't recall her name from GW1?

> > >

> > > > @"Bast.7253" said:

> > > > Well I feel like I remember reading those names on the graves, but it still doesn't really mean anything. Are they just a random family?

> > >

> > > Yes. The sad fate of Bo, Ai, and their daughter Lan (a tale of love, family, and war against the plague). It's their graves.

> > >

> >

> > Perhaps the hint about Cantha the developers speaks about is not about the Fractal but the story of this family.

> >

> > You said the story is about this family and the war against the plague.

> >

> > Maybe the hint is about what this family went through.

> >

> > Perhaps the hint is related to the Plague.

> >

> > We maybe looking too much into the fractal as the hint itself but did not consider this little side story about this family and the Plague is the real hint or a important part of that hint about Cantha.

>

> There actually is no plague, the war is against the Kurzicks, though there is a single line about the Ministry talking about killing anyone who "shows signs" of affliction. No indication that there actually _is_ such though.

>

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > If this shadow maybe linked to the DSD then it may support even more about the DSD control over Nightmares and using the emotions of nightmares (doubt, sorrow, and fear) to control beings.

>

> Weird why people are so obsessed with the DSD...

>

> Demons have a bigger history with nightmares and emotions of fear, and Cantha. And we did have a recent fractal dealing with a demon of darkness that possessed people... The Voice.

>

> Speaking of which, Arkk's story was a multi-fractal storyline, and the person who wrote that plot is the same person who is leading the current fractal team.

Difficult to determine which is real and which is fiction at this point. Sometimes facts can be mistaken for fiction and fiction mistaken for facts. The mystery of this plot is to only guess until we see for our own eyes once we get to Cantha.

They can continue supporting the idea that they used the Plague to justify genecide and the plague is truely gone but at the sametime they can also pull a 180 and reveal they were telling the truth later. However, that is part of the fun when it comes to determining what is provided here in this fractal, to speculate the possibilities until the truth is revealed.

> @"Bast.7253" said:

>

> So you're saying that the elements are in disorder because Ai has corrupted them with whatever has a hold on her?

>

> If that's true that could be pretty revealing, especially given the challenge mode and those spirits that we face. We face similarly named spirits in Malchor's Leap so it could be an interesting link to the DSD assuming that those spirits are in relation to the DSD.

>

> But I like the idea of the DSD having domains of water and spirit and look for loose connections wherever I can find them.

>

> I wouldn't think it would be the plague/affliction moving forward but I guess I could see it being relevant in the fractal. Could also be paving the way for them explaining that the plague and the events that Shiro unleashed may be expanded upon to fit the elder dragon narrative if that's where they're going.

>

> Maybe people will find more hints as time goes on. I don't know how much more there is to read into though.

It certainly appears that way after beating Challenge mode as it ends with Ai banishing a strange shadow that is being separated from her.

Whatever this shadow is tried to take over Ai using her doubts, sorrow, and fear.

Where this shadow has gone we can only guess but it is certainly not the end of it for certain.

If this shadow maybe linked to the DSD then it may support even more about the DSD control over Nightmares and using the emotions of nightmares (doubt, sorrow, and fear) to control beings.