EdwinLi.1284

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> That’s been answered though. It would be a reaction of surprise and confusion given we know the afflicted couldn’t still exist and their story is completed.

So basically, the best way I can describe it, the same reaction people will have if Small Pox suddenly appeared in the world again in a spot too far from a place that stores the cure for it.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> The entire point of the first act of Winds of Change was to eliminate the few remnants of the Affliction. These remnants weren't naturally sustaining, but maintained by the Am Fah, who were artificially creating Afflicted; the leader who was advocating for such actions was killed and replaced by a more lenient leader in Act 2&3 of Winds of Change, leaving the Affliction to be completely and utterly wiped out for good.

>

> It wouldn't make sense to bring back the Affliction in GW2, as it would be a blatant retcon to the gameplay of Winds of Change, which is easily argued to be one of the best campaigns of GW1.

I never said they will have to retcon the story of Wind of Change. Everything stays the same because everything we know about Wind of Change is about the known history of the events but as I said it is the Known History which is based on what people recorded.

I am asking how will people react IF there was a small area of Afflicted that the purge missed because of the place becoming sealed off by certain reasons that caused them to miss that spot and over the centuries while it was sealed off the Afflicted had gown, evolved, and changed but never escape that area. Thus leading to a moment when the Commander gets blasted into that unknown area that so few know about due to being in such a deep part of the Undercity only the most poor and desperate will end up in. A area so isolated and ancient in the Undercity that even the Purge missed because of where the place is located thus leading to the assumption the Afflicted was all wiped out but in secret some of it survived and have been festering for centuries like in a horror movie that always ends in the previous movie assuming every threat of a virus is wiped out but in reality a small part of it is just waiting to be "found" again one day in a place no one suspect until someone accidently finds it.

However, it seems everyone is ignoring the question and focusing on say "The Afflicted should never return because of X or Y reasons" which should be in completely different post topic because this is not what my topic is about.

> @"Slowpokeking.8720" said:

> Actually I even think WOC afflicted made little sense, without Shiro they should simply become mindless zombies, there shouldn't be that many remaining years later and all become so powerful.

That is why in this IF scenario i mentioned that they may only be found in a smalled sealed off location of the Undercity, either as a result of major path ways collaping many years ago leaving only small path ways people easily miss and can cover up or intentional reasons being sealed, that no one would dare to enter unless it is out of desperation.

In the minds of the people the Plague is gone (like people see Small Pox) but in the back of their minds there has always been a fear that some where and in some small place there could be a small pack of the afflicted remaining. Like many fears of such deadly disease returning or been kept alive in a spot where hardly anyone goes to there is also the fear of it may have evolved over the years in that small area of the Undercity due to small amount of victims keeping the disease alive such as rats, maybe desperate humans living down there, and other type of things that may have wander into that small area of the Undercity.

It will never spread beyond this small area due to how sealed off it is unless someone knows a small way into the place but it will always remain in that spot deep in the shadows of the Undercity where the majority of Cantha citizens will never find nor seek to enter unless they stumble into that place by accident or intentionally go there in desperation to survive life in the Undercity without knowing what horrors are in the shadows of that place.

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> I don't think it can. The plague existed due to Shiro's presence corrupting living organisms. No Shiro means the plague eventually dissipated as the remaining afflicted would have been hunted down.

>

> I'd be surprised anyway. Anet might allude to it, but this expac is clearly Dragon focused and Anet aren't great at handling multiple plot threads. It'll tell some side stories on the map, but I'm not expecting any deviation from the Dragon plot unless something comes up during the icebrood saga (which again will likely be Dragon plot). Plus the whole undead/zombie style army has already been done twice in GW2 in a signicant way, I'm not sure even Anet would recycle the idea again

despite Shiro's death the Plague still carried its basic functions of how it infects people though.

They literally had to cut off certain areas where the plague was affecting the most during Winds of Change so no one can enter those areas while they exterminate the remaining Afflicted. However, we never did see if they were thoroughly enough and if certain spots that were sealed off may have been missed which is a scary thought like how some well known deadly diseases that are considered wiped out now may still exists because of a small spot on Earth holding the virus for that disease.

So while everyone else are talking about Dragons let us discuss something that may or may not return in Cantha expansion being the Plague.

The scenario I present is a if scenario until confirmed being that what IF the plague survived in Cantha sealed off in a spot within the lowests region of the City where only the poor and desperate would dare to live near or enter. It is a small region that most of those poor souls living in the lowest levels are right next to but never go into unless it is out of desperation to find food and salvage dropped down from the higher levels.

We can speak with NPCs and hear NPC living down there talking about stories involving hearing strange deformed voices in the darkness of those areas and screams of people who wander into that area but their bodies can never be found.

Then at some point in the Cantha Main Storyline we are blased into that area and spend some time only hearing sounds in every corner. We can see strange lumps of deformed flesh forming in areas as if something died there but the flesh has kept growing after the thing died. Eventually as we get closer to what looks like a safe place, we find it empty with only signs that people lived there recently but blood is everywhere yet no bodies. It is at this moment after investigating the small camp we find a survivor but that survivor is acting strange and telling us to stay away from him. Yet the commander ignores this warning and this survivor suddenly attacks the Commander but is successfully killed. At this moment the Afflicted makes their return into GW2 and the Commander must fight off the Afficted until he or she is put into a down state (no achievement) or survive long enough for a group of mysterious people to arrive (achievement ). After this the game progress with a Afficted story chapter for a while until the Commander finally escapes this region of the Undercity.

and here is where I end the IF scenario stuff since let just wait and see what Cantha expansion may bring.....

So how will you react if the Afflicted returned in such a manner or if they return in another way?

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> If the Canthan Empire had defeated Bubbles one would think all of the displaced deep ocean species we have encountered would have noticed the sudden lack of coordination and power that dragon minions tend to get after their dragon dies.

>

> Given that the Karka only appeared on the surface after Zhaitan's defeat, and did so fleeing the Deep Sea Dragon's minions, it seems to suggest its still alive.

>

> Not to mention, if it had died, people would have noticed the ley energy buildup/transference of powers to the other Elder Dragons.

As my speculation mentions, i suspect that the lack of Elder Dragon energy getting out of DSD possible death maybe due to Two Dragons being in the area to absorb half/half of the DSD energy and thus taking the DSD place as the current DSD of the current Cycle with both of them only having half of DSD powers each.

Most of the time the leaking of Elder Dragon Energy into other Elder Dragons was due to some of those energy being missed when the absorbing happens such as how Kralk's energy was not fully absorbed into Aurene and thus the parts missed were dragged into the other Elder Dragons thus giving current surviving Elder Dragons all of Kralk's powers. However, with two fully grown Dragons absorbing the energy it is possible no DSD energy maybe missed thus they may successfully fully contained the DSD energy into the possible new DSD of Ying and DSD of Yang.

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> Because it wasn't defeated before that sequence was shown to us?

>

> I don't think anyone was suggesting that the Canthans could 'easily' defeat the DSD, more that they took a while to do so and likely suffered catastrophically in the process, but ultimately succeeded - "Testament to Mortal Resilience" - Maybe around the time Kralkatorrik was defeated. It doesn't necessarily have to have been around the same time as or before Zhaitan was defeated.

>

> I also don't think the All is really fully understood yet and the image we were shown with the 'orbs' does not have to be taken as gospel.

>

> And besides, if the DSD was immediately replaced by Kuunavang and/or Albax, there wouldn't have been disruption to the All, at least visible from Tyria with the means available to us.

I am not saying it happened before Zhaitan but more that it has been a while since the DSD defeat which most likely maybe between Zhaitan's defeat to Kralkatorik.

The ingame lore is that it has been already 9 years since the Zhaitan Arc ended which gives a lot of space for when it could have happened.

If it happened after Zhaitan's defeat and before Mordremoth's defeat then it would explain why no one noticed because DSD death and transfer of rights and influence may not be noticed due to the world not being affected story wise yet. (This covers the year 1325 AE to 1328 AE)

Though my speculation say it should not be after Mordremoth's death and before Kralkatorik's death since by that point we should have seen a strange shift in magic unless that shift was not calculated due to the already crazy events the Commander and his/her allies were focused on. (1329 AE to 1332 AE)

After Kralkatorik's death to current events is the least in my opinion because we should have notice a sudden change to the magic unless Jormag was the only one that noticed it and that is the implied danger she speaks about. (1332 AE to current events which is now 1333 AE)

> @"Psientist.6437" said:

> >

>

> How does this theory explain the title of the expansion? I may be putting too much significance into the title but it is hard not to.

The Title "End of Dragons" implies the End of the old Elder Dragon Cycle.

At the end of the trailer teaser the words "A Cycle is Reborn" implies a new Cycle is created. This New Cycle most likely speaks about the birth of a New Dragon Cycle.

The current Cycle we are in is the old Elder Dragon Cycle and with the death of all old Elder Dragons the old Cycle dies with them but the birth of New Elder Dragons such as Aurene and maybe other New Dragons creates a New Cycle different from the old Cycle.

It is still a Elder Dragon Cycle but one that has completely new to the world that will act as the new cycle to maintain the flow of Magic reborn to do so without mass genocide of all life on the planet.

thus combine these two together the full message of the Teaser maybe "The End of the Old Elder Dragon Cycle and Reborn as a New Elder Dragon Cycle"

If speculations that the DSD has already been killed off in Cantha for a long time is true then there still remains another question next to the when, how, and why being the Orb for the DSD not disappearing when we looked into the Eternal Alchemy.

One of my other speculation, following if the death of DSD has already happened in Cantha maybe true, is that the title and rights of the DSD may have been transfered to maybe two dragons creating a DSD of Ying and DSD of Yang thus maybe why the DSD orb never went out and remained bright in the Eternal Alchemy. The old Deep Sea Elder Dragon maybe gone but in its place two new Dragons maintain the position of DSD's influence but both disagree with how they may want to handle the DSD position. However, since they are still only half the DSD powers neither have reach the level of Aurene yet.

The real Kralkatorik personality mentioned Aurene is the first of her kind and now that meaning has more to it being Aurene is the first of the Dragons in the new Cycle. With this one must ask who maybe the other New Dragons of the new Cycle? It is already implied Aurene will not be the only Dragon to maintain the magic in the new Cycle but she is the first of these New Dragons.

I suspect one of the Dragons in the new logo maybe the 2nd New Dragon of the New Cycle to be the Elder Dragon that embodies Ying and Yang after one of them dies in the story and transfers their power to the surviving Dragon to become a complete New Dragon. However, another hypothesis is that both of them may become New Dragons of the New Cycle thus creating a Twin Dragons type New Dragon with one acting as the Ying and the other acting as the Yang once both of them reach a understanding to help protect the world in the New Cycle.

> @"ThatOddOne.4387" said:

> I do really like the theory that Cantha has already defeated the DSD. It's a nice twist. Plus avoids retreading the same old 'defeat an elder dragon' story steps.

>

> If both Kuunavang and Albax have taken portions of the DSD's power, then it could quite well be a set-up for a Yin and Yang story.

ya it seems even WoodenPotatoes is siding with the possibility that the reason why we never seen the DSD is because it was already defeated in Cantha by the Canthan Empire.

Though if this is so then we have to ask how, when, and if they have their own Commander or not.

Anyone else notice that they made a Bridge before passing the 2nd gate in Cantha the Arenanet logo in the trailer?

Imagine if during Cantha expansion storyline the current Emporer actually tries to kill us during the Harvest Ceremony.

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > My own speculation is that the Voice is the Deep Sea Dragon and she has been a Good Elder Dragon compared to others that did her best to avoid interacting with the races because she did not want to harm them until current events that force her hand to help the commander, Aurene, and the other races because of what Jormag is about to do.

> If the DSD was a good Elder Dragon, why did it force out the krait, quaggan, karka, and battle the largos? Or the sailors that are washed ashore after being assaulted by brand new sea monsters that appeared after the DSD woke up (either being the source of said sea monsters, or displaced them into the common sailing routes)? The DSD has not interacted with Central Tyria, but that doesn't mean it hasn't interacted with other races - because it _has_, and it has acted the same as the other five evil Elder Dragons.

As I said it is only speculation and DSD can still be basically the generic evil antagonist we view all Elder dragons as but we have always know little about the DSD until maybe the Cantha expansion. For all we know the push out of those races and appearance of new creatures could have been a accident caused by the introduction to DSD into their ecosystem.

We always assumed DSD is evil because of what others have said about events for their side of the story but we never have been in the areas where those events actually happened thus we never gotten the full picture of the DSD's effects, nature, desires, and reasoning. Only pieces of what happened from the view point of those who were in those places.

We have learned much about the current Elder Dragons because we have always interacted with them and most cases their minions to get a glimps at their reasoning, desires, and views. The DSD on the other hand has little interactions since we have never encountered DSD minions nor gotten a view on what motivations has been implanted into them to get a glimps into the DSD mind.

As I said DSD can still be basically the expect Evil Dragon we all assumed her to be since GW2 began but from recent stories we have seen it is certain Anet is bring up the question of what if there is more about the Elder Dragons than we always assumed ever since events of Kralkatorik.

> @"Gorgaan Peaudesang.8324" said:

> "The cycle is reborn" at the end of the trailer is a powerful sentence.

>

> I, too, believe Kuunavang is talking with an Elder Dragon, the one known as S(omething).

I suspect it may hint towards many things but the one thing I suspect is part of that meaning is the reveal of how the Cycle began in the first place since that knowledge has been lost for so long with the only beings who have knowledge of the Cycle origins now are the Elder Dragons themselves which everyone we met so far has not been very friendly towards us. Considering if the Voice is the DSD and she may have always been the friendly one, we may finally learn the truth about the Cycle from her.

> @"Forbidden Virtue.1089" said:

> Does this mean after this expantion it's over? That the story is done?

Maybe or Maybe not. The story may have something much bigger behind the Elder Dragons as they left us certain mysteries such as who is the "Mother" and what could have happened to this "Mother"?

Looks like Cantha may focus on the DSD after all boys and girls!

So the teaser trailer is out now showing glimps of Cantha and the return of Kuunavang while hinting her relationship to the Elder Dragons with a mysterious voice talking to her. What do you think this can all mean?! My own speculation is that the Voice is the Deep Sea Dragon and she has been a Good Elder Dragon compared to others that did her best to avoid interacting with the races because she did not want to harm them until current events that force her hand to help the commander, Aurene, and the other races because of what Jormag is about to do.

Speaking of the whole Commander and Adventurer being separate characters, I am curious if they will ever cover this topic. We know in X and y moments in the storyline the Main Story Instance missions cover events of the Commander side while the Meta Event covers the Adventurer side of the story.

Both characters have been consistently existing parallel with each others stories but have never once met each other.

Yet at the same time certain Stories are separated from the Commander and Adventurer such as Raid storylines, world exploration, and Meta events follow the Adventurer while the side of the Storyline that follows the Commander is for Main Story quests and Map Events required for Main Story Quests.

In a funny way, if they ever decided that the Commander needs to be killed off or retire alive in the storyline, they can easily repalce the Commander with the Adventurer while providing some comments from the commander's companions about how both the Commander and Adventurer look just like each other.

I doubt we will see DSD killed off screen by the Canthans since every story build up has already lead right into a fight with a Elder dragon. However, if we are discussing the possibility of Cantha having advance technology with the secret to their tech is that it is being powered by DSD Magical Energy.

The best guess I have, if Cantha manage to defeat the DSD, is that they only chained him so they can harvest the DSD magical energy to power their technology.

Of course there is most likely go wrong with this idea such as being exposed to that energy for too long may corrupt the user and the current Cantha Emperor may be covering this up for REASONS due to how dependent Cantha's Society is with this Technology. Of course they will have to start the story with this being unknown to the characters and player base and only view the Canthan technology as a mystery to how it works and what magical energy they may be using to power the technology. Only after a certain amount of time pass in the Main Storyline should this be revealed that the DSD is in chains and their secret super magic energy that powers their tech is actually Elder Dragon Energy and it is slowly corrupting the people of Cantha because use of the technology is very slowly corrupting them. Not as fast as direct corruption as it could take years for them to be fully corrupted but it is a slow process through years of exposure to a point the ignorant people will mistaken it as a mental disease common among people as they get older.

However, since the people of Cantha can't abaddon their technology due to how it is incorporated in every aspect of their life, the Commander and his/her allies most likely end up searching for a alternate source of magical energy that is compatible with the Cantha technology so they can end the slow DSD corrupt on Cantha's people.

> @"Sajuuk Khar.1509" said:

> > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > Welp they just added the ability to ride Skimmer mount underwater. Why am I getting a feeling Underwater will be a big theme in Cantha Expansion :p

> If Cantha has any underwater content its going to be totally divorced from mounts, and the Skimmer. Each expansion is made to work totally independent of each other. PoF had none of the HoT masteries for instance, and LWS4 didn't need HoT masteries to function either.

>

> They wouldn't design the Canthan Xpack to require something from HoT to get around.

I think you forget the old expansion stuff is usually only there to give players slight advantage in certain things that would normally require a Mastery from the current expansion. It won't replace the new Expansion Mastery functions but it provides alternate source of movement around certain obstacles a player may need from a current expansion Mastery.

Not all mastery will be used but certain ones will remain relevent as alternate methods for some of the new Masteries. Gliding for example, covers part of the Griffin's mount functions in PoF for players who did not or can't afford to get Griffin but if they wanted something beyond the Griffin's gliding fucntion they need to get the mount itself.

For PoF mounts, they are most likely still going to be used a lot in Cantha expansion for their mobility and functions to help reach certain areas that can most likely still be reached with the new Cantha Mastery. So it becomes a choice, unlock Cantha Mastery to reach X and Y location easily, find a alternate root by foot, or use Mounts to take a slightly longer route using their mount functions but faster than going on foot.

Another possible function is Skimmer's new ability. If Cantha is based on Deep Sea Dragon then we can expect underwater Mastery that may improve mobility underwater but of course players must first unlock the Mastery first. However, with Skimmer it acts as a alternate method of traveling underwater without that Cantha Mastery but only slightly less effective since most likely the Cantha Swimming Master may be designed to be more effective travel than Skimmer or it may improves Skimmer's mobility with the Player's swimming ability as well so in combat Players can swim more effectively since they can't use the skimmer during combat but outside of combat skimmer will be best used due to the additonal improvements the skimmer gets from the new swimming mastery.

Welp they just added the ability to ride Skimmer mount underwater. Why am I getting a feeling Underwater will be a big theme in Cantha Expansion :p

> @"Affinity.7253" said:

> In truth, all Anet needs to do is make sure Ele staff is always viable and interesting. And tanky warrior/guardian are always viable and interesting. And long ranged bow using ranger is always viable and interesting. And sneaky thief is always viable and interesting. These types of core archetypes CANNOT fall into disuse at risk of failing to actually appeal to fantasy fans. That's not even mentioning how tanky warrior/guardians don't even exist in PvE yet.

>

> I don't flat out hate the idea of giving a bow to elementalist. It's not my thing, but there's no reason to not have an arcane archer. However, you need to look at the current game and gaming landscape to understand why implementing it here and now is a really bad idea.

>

> Anyway that's my bit. Take it or leave it. I would encourage everyone to REALLY think through their ideas before proposing them / combating others. How would they impact the systems in the game. How would they be implemented. How would their implementation effect the rest of the game. etc.

>

> EDIT: for clarity

It just sounds like a issue with finding Staff build that is fun.

While you may not enjoy the concept of Elementalist going into other type of weapons beyond what you think should be possible, I personally welcome the use of other weapons because the concept of Magic is that the user themselves are the source of the Magic and the weapon is only the conduit to give the Magic form.

Longbow and Shortbow also does fall into Magic users type characters being the Mage that specialize in giving their Magic form of Magic Arrows and Magic Bows. It is a popular Mage type used in certain Fantasy stories and Fantasy RPG for Elf characters and sometimes Mage Human characters.

It is also expected that the Magic bow user would also specialize in new Magic Range type utility skills and even new Magic Range focused Mechanics to replace or add more into Elementalists Core mechanic which also means introducing new Mage/Wizard/Elemental Master Magic Range combat builds for Core weapons as well such as Staff, Scepters, and Focus for Elementalist.

Plenty of players still use their Core Weapons with their Elite Specs as Elite Specs opens up more build diversity based on which combat it focus for Core weapons.

> @"Legion.4198" said:

> > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > @"EdwinLi.1284" said:

> > > > @"Noah Salazar.5430" said:

> > > > Oh i was wrong than

> > > > But same, you can put plot to Cantha

> > > > How thay started using new sorce of power xxx or developed new technology over years

> > > > So will say again that limiting to Cantha theme isin't much nesesery, eventualy only name

> > >

> > > Still too early to say since we know very little about Cantha and their development in Magic, technology, and Science. They have been isolated for years and for all we know they could end up going full anime technology civilization when we finally go there with each layer of Cantha City being Advance tech (highest level with the rich live full of Magic tech mechs, advance combat armor soldiers guarding the area, Advance High Tech Magic Academy, and etc), basic tech (mid level of the city), and old GW1 style builds (lowest level where the poor live) along with their military being more modern by depending on Firearms more while swords, bows, staffs, and etc have become more outdated method of fighting only the poor or mid-level citizens who can't afford the advance firearms would use.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > This would be kinda odd, tho.

> > Usually, isolation has the opposite effect to advancement. Diversity and cultural exchange are beneficial for progress, since it allows exchange of ideas and combination of different views and knowledge about topics.

> >

> > With Cantha throwing out all non-humans and potentially cutting off every interaction with them, that is an additional hindrance. Some of the races with the highest technological level are non-human like Asura and Charr.

> > So I wouldn't expect Cantha to go super hightech.

> >

> > Sure, they could be super advanced, but it would feel kinda strange for me because of this.

>

> On the contrary, it is Tyria the continent that has been completely isolated by the dragons, not the other way around. Meanwhile, Cantha could have easily changed its policy over 200 years, especially if they have been under pressure by the Deep Sea Dragon to seek new resources, tributaries, and subjects.

Ya in lore stand point, the region in Tyria we play in is also considered isolated from the rest of the world because for hundreds of years that Elder Dragons have all focused thier activity within the current areas of the game and completely prevented any race from leaving the current game regions. They have never expanded beyond the regions of the game which only covers about 20% of the entire planet.

The Expansion into Elona was only possible because the defeat of Zhaitan which opened the path for ships both sea and sky to travel into the regions where we started out in PoF Expansion.

A lot of focus in current regions of the entire Planet of GW2 is because by lore we can't allow the Elder Dragons to contiue unchallenged since the Elder Dragons are building their army in the current Regions accessable in the game before expanding into the remaining 80% of the Planet we can't explore. Those 80% will no doubt have other civilizations we have never seen and explored yet in the GW series that also are probably unaware of the Elder Dragon's existance due to never making contact with the civilizations of Kryta and Elona.

https://i.imgur.com/ruQOuf2.jpg

As this map shows we still have unexplored regions such as Gwen, Yeh, Arid, Wetland, Kim, Dahye, and the eastern regions of Tyria.

The region we play in now is only the western region of Tyria

> @"juno.1840" said:

> Just make pistol and rifle better and problem solved.

Someone a lot of us hoped may one day happen since pre-HoT days. They always had a issue of being outshined by Kits and usually only there for their stats for the kit's damage.

On topic:

To this day I am still surprised they never considered Mace as a Core Main Weapon for Engineer. I always felt it should have been a day 1 release thing by default because it would have gone far better with Shield than pistol to act as the Melee Tank Mace/Shield combo for Engineer. Not to mention Mace, in my opinion, would have fit as a default wrench smacking weapon skills since one-handed hammers are a common tool for Engineers both in crafting and killing things.

Sadly they dropped this chance when they introduced Elite Specs.

If there is going to be a Main Hand weapon it is sadly going to be locked to a Elite Spec.

Besides the Pistol and Rifle was more for their stats and utility rather than their actual direct combat use as Kits will have replaced them even today.

One down side of Engineer is that you may have a fancy weapon skin but most of the time it is not seen in combat because of Kits and Photon Forge for optimal combat gameplay.