Dadnir.5038

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > I'm pretty sure knowledge about GW1 cantha is irrelevant to predict the futur e-specs, just like knowledge about GW1 kourna was irrelevant in predicting PoF e-specs. You can more or less make approximative guess about the thematic based on GW1's lore but not much more than that (even that have a high probability to be inaccurate anyway). > > I mean, GW2's necromancer's mechanic is already an abheration compared to GW1's lore, how can you expect that a bunch of necromancer taught by joko end up using necromancy in an even more abnormal way after parting from their "master" that now hunt them? I mean, neither shade nor shroud are a thing in GW1. > > It doesn't mean that we can't make a guess born out of our own fantasy. Let's see, for the necromancer it could become something like: > > **Name:** Exorcist > > **Lore:** Exorcists is a branch of necromancy that descend from the disciple of the sage Kuonhgsang who sweared to take revenge for their master that was once tricked by the spirits into making the emperor kill all the eldest daugters of the empire in order to cure the emperor's daughter. Exorcists use necromancy to gain dominion over a spirit that they use as their shield and weapon. > > **Mechanism:** Exorcists forsake the shroud, their Life force is bound to a spirit. > F1: _Shrouded weapon:_ Forcefully infuse your bound spirit into your weapon, consuming 7% LF every second in order to gain a stack of unblockable every second (You can only retain a single stack from this skill. F1 traits procs whenever you expend a stack. While this skill is active you are considered to be in shroud) > F2: _Spirit retreat:_ Make your spirit burst, dealing damage to foes around you while hurling you backward. (LF cost) > F3: _Lamentation:_ Make your spirit cry inducing fear into nearby foes. > F4: _Corrupted bond:_ Tether yourself to nearby foes, for x seconds whenever you are inflicted by a condition a copy of this condition is inflicted to your tethered foes. > F5: _Exorcist's balance:_ Gain health equal to the difference between your health and your spirit life force. If the spirit have less life force than you tranform your health into life force. > To expand a bit on my latest post, I don't think taking a necromancer boss (Kuonhgsang here) as a starting point for an e-spec is the path ANet will take, even if it's possible to twist the lore nicely like I've done. It might not be totally unrelated thought. In GW faction, there is the concept of "Envoy" which is probably close to what a canthan necromancer should want to become granted how GW2 necromancer's profession is designed. I believe, we could have a lore that goes like: **_Envoy_ lore:** Envoy... In the past, Envoys used to be criminal in penance, each nominated personally by the oracle of the mist in order to shepherd dead soul to the after life. Shiro Tagachi's betrayal of this duty changed everything. Criminals were no longer deemed as reliable enough to take on the mantle of an Envoy and, instead, it's been decided that this power would be entrusted to an elite group of necromancers. These new Envoys are now carefully screened, strictly trained and tightly bound with curses intended to punish them if they stray out of their duty. The way I worded this fictional lore, here, we could have the necromancer using some of it's envoy's skills in the principal plane at the cost of a backlash due to the curses, giving a second breath to the "self harm" skills design. Or you it could become a powerful dedicated minionmaster (afterall shiro, as an envoy, seem to raise and corrupt the deads into afflicted). Or it could end up into a trueblue ritualist, binding spirit to fight their foes and support their allies. The magic here being that we don't know enough about the Envoy powers to create a complete picture of what an envoy would do as an e-spec. (And even if we knew, ranger's druid e-spec truly show that a GW2 druid can be totally different from a GW druid, as long as it can vaguely fit the lore's definition)

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said: > > @"Jski.6180" said: > > So when they nerf aura clears and reg clears as they are like to do in the next update will this be become of core ele? > > I don't think anet actually give a dam about any core spec, It's just classes like Guardian that have a strong core set that makes the elite specs better while other classes, struggle to do anything with core specs nowadays and besides, Base game comes with the expansions.. so as long as the elite specs look good, who cares about core? it's not where the money comes I wouldn't say core professions are in a really bad state. They are seldom optimal, yes, but not necessarily "bad".

Well... Focus and warhorn were destroyed for no reason as well. I can see a trend and it always involve life leeching effects.

> @"Archer.4362" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > Don't you think that's an heavily biased argument you got there? Just from core and without even including traits, elementalist got the ability to equip defensive mean amongst: > > - invuln (_Obsidian flesh_, _mist form_, _fortify_) > > - block (_arcane shield_) > > - instant mobility often coupled with dodge frame (_lightning flash_, _burning speed_, _burning retreat_, _Lightning leap_, _Fiery whirl_, _fiery rush_, _earthen rush_, _updraft_) > > - Reflect/block missiles (_magnetic aura_, _magnetic surge_, _magnetic wave_, _ring of earth_, _swirling wind_) > > - Without forgetting about barrier access (_crippling shield_, _stone shift_, _magnetic shield_), boons (protection, vigor, stability), conditions (weakness, blind, chill, cripple), aura (frost aura), hard CCs... etc. > > - Even elementalist's ability to condi cleanse options are underestimated granted that at any given moment you can have up to 4 cleansing skills sloted (Ice elemental's _crashing wave_, _cleansing fire_, _ether renewal_, _cleansing wave_, _magnetic wave_, _healing rain_) > > > > I doubt there is another core profession with this many active defense skills and effects available in game, maybe elementalist relying on heal burst isn't it's only option to stay alive. I would say that the reason build disappear is often narrowmindness, people focusing on a single aspect that proved to work well at a moment and forgetting that there is many other aspects that only wait to be exploited. > > > > NB.: Traitlines and elite specs only had more to this list. > > Now of all the ones you have mentioned tell me how many can be used in the same build. I answer you 1. > > you can have multiple locks but only use 1 that is feasible. Only 1 what? I mean, unless you didn't really read properly, I said that all these options were available to use. Just slot earth shield you'll have 1 invuln, 1 reflect, ton of barrier and protect. Use focus to get another invuln, projectile block, projectile reflect and condi cleanse. Use dagger and you'll enjoy 2 evade skills and projectile block. We are at 1 MH weapon, 1 off hand weapon and a single utility skill slot used here. Yet that's already 2 invuln, 2 reflects, 2 evade skills, a projectile block on 6 s CD, barrier, cleanse 3 condi, weakness output and boon prot access. What more could we get from 1 elite, 1 heal skill, 2 utility skills and a bunch of traits? 8 conditions cleansed with ether renewal? Another invuln with mist form? 3 conditions cleansed from cleansing fire? A 5 seconds CD evade skill on fiery greatsword? What would that make? 3 invuln, 2 reflect, a projectile block, 3 evade skills, 14 condition cleansed throught 3 skills used, weakness and protection? You're free to build how you want, thinking that only a single option is valid is a lock you put on yourself, not a lock that ANet put on you. In fact just using D/F prove your argument wrong.

> @"Arheundel.6451" said: > EX: a flat number reduction in healing will affect a class like ele differently from say a thief or mesmer or necro which have access to better inbuilt defensive mechanics and don't rely on heal burst to stay alive, this is the reason builds disappear. Don't you think that's an heavily biased argument you got there? Just from core and without even including traits, elementalist got the ability to equip defensive mean amongst: - invuln (_Obsidian flesh_, _mist form_, _fortify_) - block (_arcane shield_) - instant mobility often coupled with dodge frame (_lightning flash_, _burning speed_, _burning retreat_, _Lightning leap_, _Fiery whirl_, _fiery rush_, _earthen rush_, _updraft_) - Reflect/block missiles (_magnetic aura_, _magnetic surge_, _magnetic wave_, _ring of earth_, _swirling wind_) - Without forgetting about barrier access (_crippling shield_, _stone shift_, _magnetic shield_), boons (protection, vigor, stability), conditions (weakness, blind, chill, cripple), aura (frost aura), hard CCs... etc. - Even elementalist's ability to condi cleanse options are underestimated granted that at any given moment you can have up to 4 cleansing skills sloted (Ice elemental's _crashing wave_, _cleansing fire_, _ether renewal_, _cleansing wave_, _magnetic wave_, _healing rain_) I doubt there is another core profession with this many active defense skills and effects available in game, maybe elementalist relying on heal burst isn't it's only option to stay alive. I would say that the reason build disappear is often narrowmindness, people focusing on a single aspect that proved to work well at a moment and forgetting that there is many other aspects that only wait to be exploited. NB.: Traitlines and elite specs only had more to this list.

> @"Touchme.1097" said: > ... only someone who has a very solid knowledge of Guild Wars 1 can predict the new Cantha specs. I'm pretty sure knowledge about GW1 cantha is irrelevant to predict the futur e-specs, just like knowledge about GW1 kourna was irrelevant in predicting PoF e-specs. You can more or less make approximative guess about the thematic based on GW1's lore but not much more than that (even that have a high probability to be inaccurate anyway). I mean, GW2's necromancer's mechanic is already an abheration compared to GW1's lore, how can you expect that a bunch of necromancer taught by joko end up using necromancy in an even more abnormal way after parting from their "master" that now hunt them? I mean, neither shade nor shroud are a thing in GW1. It doesn't mean that we can't make a guess born out of our own fantasy. Let's see, for the necromancer it could become something like: **Name:** Exorcist **Lore:** Exorcists is a branch of necromancy that descend from the disciple of the sage Kuonhgsang who sweared to take revenge for their master that was once tricked by the spirits into making the emperor kill all the eldest daugters of the empire in order to cure the emperor's daughter. Exorcists use necromancy to gain dominion over a spirit that they use as their shield and weapon. **Mechanism:** Exorcists forsake the shroud, their Life force is bound to a spirit. F1: _Shrouded weapon:_ Forcefully infuse your bound spirit into your weapon, consuming 7% LF every second in order to gain a stack of unblockable every second (You can only retain a single stack from this skill. F1 traits procs whenever you expend a stack. While this skill is active you are considered to be in shroud) F2: _Spirit retreat:_ Make your spirit burst, dealing damage to foes around you while hurling you backward. (LF cost) F3: _Lamentation:_ Make your spirit cry inducing fear into nearby foes. F4: _Corrupted bond:_ Tether yourself to nearby foes, for x seconds whenever you are inflicted by a condition a copy of this condition is inflicted to your tethered foes. F5: _Exorcist's balance:_ Gain health equal to the difference between your health and your spirit life force. If the spirit have less life force than you tranform your health into life force.

> @"Kodama.6453" said: > @"Dadnir.5038" > > He wrote "Anyways, I'm curious to hear what everyone else can come up with and if they got better ideas than what I got for Revenant." I think this thread here is intended by him to invite all players to share their ideas for elite specs for all classes, even if he just provided an example for revenant himself. > But you're going yourself with an engineer idea when he say "for revenant". ;) Revenant is a nice profession because it's e-specs can be virtually anything. The following legend idea is more of a joke than anything but, maybe, just maybe... **Name:** Treasure Hunter **Legend:** [insert Skriit name] **F2:** _Lucky charm:_ Create a bundle based on your current legend. Cast time 1 second, 5 energy cost, CD 20s. **Weapon:** Rifle **Legend skills:** Heal: _Dowsing:_ Heal yourself for a moderate amount. Gain a charge of _healing seed_ bundle. Utility1: _Bog:_ Create a patch of mud at your feets that slow and cripple foe that step on it. Gain a charge of _throw gunk_ bundle. Utility2: _Pluck:_ Pinch your foe at melee range, dealing damage and inflicting vulnerability. Gain a charge of _Blinding tuft_ bundle. Utility3: _Pick:_ Pick a branch below your foe's feet, making it fall (knockdown). Gain a charge of _Branch bash_ bundle. Elite: _Radioactive stone:_ throw a radioactive stone to the targeted area creating a radioactive field that poison and weaken foes within. Gain a charge of _consume plasma_ bundle. _Specificity:_ This legend do not have an upkeep skill.

Isn't it bountiful because you gain vigor no matter what? The trait: - Rip up to 3 boons (2 for sPvP/WvW) on your foe. - Grant up to 4 boons (3 for sPvP/WvW) on **5 allies**. And you think that "thieves can't have nice things"? I mean, that's pretty darn good already.

> @"Grand Marshal.4098" said: > **Core: vanilla warrior** > -Berserker: a warrior/warrior (mix of the class with another heavy proffession), high dps etc. It might be a bit of a stretch but I'd say berserker is warrior/necromancer (berserk mode being the "shroud") > **Core: vanilla guardian** > -Firebrand: guardian/guardian Could be Guardian/elementalist > **Core: vanilla ranger** > -Druid: ranger/elementalist ??? Ranger/necromancer, definitely! > -Soulbeast: ranger/ranger or ranger/warrior Maybe thief/revenant because you borrow the power of your familiar. > **Core: vanilla engineer** > -Holosmith: engineer/warrior Engineer/necromancer, can't make more shroud like thing than holoforge. > -Scrapper: engineer/engineer ??? I'd say Engineer/guardian > **Core: vanilla thief** > -Deadeye: thief/engineer ??? Curiously I'd say thief/ranger > **Core: vanilla necromancer** > -Scourge: necromancer/necromancer ??? Necromancer/mesmer, the use of the shade feel similar to the mesmer's clone mechanism. > **Core: vanilla elementalist** > -Tempest: elementalist/elementalist Elementalist/guardian, each element is a passive virtue that you can "overload" for a skill effect. > **Core: vanilla mesmer** > -Mirage: mesmer/mesmer ??? I think it's worth the mesmer/thief label. > -Chronomancer: ??? I would say mesmer/guardian or maybe mesmer/engineer

Shouldn't this be in the revenant's subforum? I don't mind revenant getting pistol or rifle on it's 3rd elite but does the pistol or rifle need to be ranged? NB.: The title of the thread is to broad, it should probably be: "weapon idea for revenant's 3rd elite".

> @"Ovark.2514" said: > _Phase Traversal_ requires LoS and only grants the quickness and unblockable on strike Reasonable. > _Song of the Mists_ no longer deals damage I don't think it's needed.

> @"Axl.8924" said: > You gotta be careful with nerfs if reaper gets nerfed in sustain and dmg and ends up not being a scary monster who chases you with their reaper shroud, it would ruin the elite spec entirely. I doubt the thread is focused on nerfing the reaper. I think some of the thread points are outdated, thought, a lot of tweaks have been made since 2020 feb patch that this thread don't seem to take into account. The thread also ecchoed the common prejudices about things like downstate and condition damage. Which really are less about balance than simply disliking game mechanisms. Afterall, the optimal way to deal with a downed foe is and should be to stomp it while condition skills do have just as many tells as power skills does.

The ability to create instanced racing tracks. - ability to chose pre set map template. - ability to set which mount/pre existent "transformations" you can use. - ability to mark checkpoints on the map. - ability to chose whether there will be mobs on the map or not to hinder progress. - ... etc.

> @"Jski.6180" said: > I am all for letting just core ele free swap with no gobble cd and tempest / weaver have a 3 sec delay in-between swaps (tempest would get overloade at 3 sec). Are you really suggesting to buff both tempest and weaver here? - ATM tempest can overload after 6s in an attunment down to 4s when traited. - Weaver have a 4s shared CD on it's attunment. As for core elementalist it need it's attunment's non shared CD in order to avoid stupidly OP abuses.

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said: > I'll say it again, the nature of a classses weapons skills does not make it a class mechanic. That's just the style of it's weapon skills. It seemed to be more than enough of a mechanic pre HoT for elementalist to stand at the top. All in all, more than asking whether the profession have a mechanic or not, this is a very long thread about whether or not core elementalist need to be powercrept in order to stand up to it's e-specs. - The thing with _tempest_ is that the devs were kind enough to give the players the choice to use overload or not, making some players confused about whether or not there is a drawback. Good grief there is since tempest traits tend to encourage the player to actually use it's overload and thus lengthen it's stay within an attunment, indirectly weakening quite a few core traits that rely on frequent attunment swaping. - Weaver also have obvious drawbacks; Having all attunments sharing a 4s cool down drastically change the mechanic compared to core elementalist. Not even talking about the reduced flexibility due to the fact that swaping attunment is delayed for your off-hand skillset. Considering those points, I think it's fair to say that core elementalist's mechanic is unique enough to not need additional effects piled up on top of it. Maybe core elementalist is lacking balance wise, but that's another topic alltogether.

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > At launch the only dual wielder of things like sword, and mace was the Warrior. _Cough! Cough!_ Mesmer could and can still dual wield sword! _Cough_ Cough!_ Personally, I'd say the weapons wielded are more in line with the thematic of the character than a matter of being able to "dual wield". For example, I don't see the necromancer being able to dual wield daggers as a necromancer strictly dual wielding daggers but as a necromancer wielding a dagger and holding a sacrificial dagger in it's off-hand (which would be more of a different _focus_ than a _dagger_ thematically). > @"Kodama.6453" said: > The bigger problem is that it would be hard to make scepter work on warrior thematically in a logical way, but it is not impossible. Just like necromancer's off hand dagger should be seen as a differently shaped "focus", you can have warrior looking at a scepter as a differently shaped "mace" (sure, not all skins are fool proof, but there is quite a number of scpeter skins that could work for a mace). Not claiming that the warrior should get a scepter (I'm personally rooting for pistol) but still it wouldn't shock me to see him ge this weapon as long as it's skills feel thematically in line with the part of the warrior the e-spec express.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > Staying objective is difficult when some of your interest are involved into the thing you have to balance. I wouldn't trust a player to be objective. > > if your job requires you to be objective and play test your own work, i think its a reasonable ask. > But can you really be objective when you got less affinity for a profession's gameplay than another? You surely can't expect someone to have perfect affinity for every profession, right? Is balancing based on what you "feel" is strong or weak through playing a way to balance objectively? ANet have been balancing based on what sPvP players were feeling for a long time. Invuln frame have been nerfed to the ground in sPvP because players felt it was strong, damage have been dramatically reduced because players felt it was overwhelming, CC are what they are right now because PvP players asked them to be there... etc. Most balance change I've seen along the years have been asked to be made into the sPvP subforum by players. Yet players think it was better before... I'm not saying your expectations aren't reasonable, in an ideal world they are. But the world is flawed, people are flawed and it's way easier to temporarily please the crowd by giving them what they ask than find the perfect answer to the vague feeling that can come for bias or not.

It's ok in PvE, poor in WvW and very poor in sPvP. The gameplay is the most fun of the game, thought.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > it doesn't take an entire team to balance pvp and wvw. thats ridiculous. all it takes is a couple of dedicated players from anet that play the game often and know where all the weak spots are. I'm pretty sure that's how we end up with traits that have 300s CD. Even the most dedicated player have it's bias and his own point of view of what the game should be. Among those dedicated players, some think that there shouldn't be proc effects, other that downed players shouldn't be able to rally... etc. Without forgetting that the grass always seem greener in the neighbour garden. Staying objective is difficult when some of your interest are involved into the thing you have to balance. I wouldn't trust a player to be objective.

I think the OP have a lot of prejudices on armors... It might also be possible that the OP is confusing sPvP and WvW... That said, all in all, armor type and health pool are set as they are in order to balance sustain for each profession. It's all a matter of build and use of the proper skills. to expand on the example of the elementalist and the revenant, If an elementalist want to survive and thus use the utility and weapon skills that he do have to do so, he will be very successful at surviving (one can even claim that the elementalist can build to be better at surviving thanks to the elementalist's ability to actually chose his utility skills.) Stats set and armor might be important at first glance but, in fact, GW2 character survivability rely a lot more on the skills used than stats and armor.

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > I'd like to see a sword/sword elite spec be extremely aggressive and mobile (but only into battle, not out of it. I.e. leaps/teleports requiring a target ala Steal). Play up that *hunger* angle. Needs to have something to make it more resilient to CC, though. To be fair, I'm pretty sure if ANet were to go the "hunger" angle, it wouldn't be by giving the necromancer more mobility but throught unwelcome traits/effects triggering whenever you kill/down a foe, you know like _soul comprehension_ or thief's _signet of power_. > I've had an idea for a trait where each time you're disabled, you get a stack of a buff. Upon hitting 3 stacks, automatic stunbreak. Stacks are not consumed, but have individual durations. End result: the necro can still be disabled when important, but spamming stuns will just make them immune. Objectively, a trait like that would be immediately nerfed to oblivion where it matter (sPvP/WvW) with something like a 300s CD. I'm not sure it would be worth implementing. Personnally, I'd welcome a proper off-hand power weapon that could be paired with axe (implying a bit of range for it's skills). I've never forgiven ANet for ruining all the core power option for off-hand by plaging them with unsightly vampiric effects. I could careless whether it's sword, axe, shield, mace or pistol, I'd just want it to be a good power based off-hand.

> @"Shroud.2307" said: > What are the tradeoffs for each specialization? Here are the ones I know; > > * Scrapper: Reduced maximum health, no access to elite F5 > * Holosmith: No access to elite F5 More or less. Not sure Holosmith's is a fair trade off, thought. > * Reaper: Increased Shroud degeneration You mainly trade a skillset for another that is a bit more costly. > * Scourge: Some traits _(Path of Corruption, Dhuumfire)_ work differently, much higher recharge on Shroud. I wouldn't say that those are trade off, it's more poor balance than anything. What the scourge trade is the "transformation" for skills that are accessible out of shrouds. it's a freedom gain at the cost of survivability. > * Daredevil: Reduced range on Steal > * Deadeye: ??? Stolen skills changed ??? Loss of mobility on F1, half for the daredevil and complete for the deadeye. > * Herald: ??? > * Renegade: ??? For both it's a trade off in energy management. Core have the ability to ponctually resplenish it's energy, Herald the ability to apply a constant drain on it's energy and Renegade have heavier requierement on energy. > * Druid: Reduced pet damage > * Soulbeast: Only one pet can be used at a time More or less, the ranger's e-specs trade offs aren't ideal. > * Berserker: Reduced armor Not really, it's a trade off for more power and condition damage within the same trait. The trade off of the berserk is that it's bursts are gated behind "berserk mode" and that he only use 1 bar of adrenaline for each burst. > * Spellbreaker: All Bursts count as 2 bars of Adrenaline More or less. > * Dragonhunter: ??? Slightly higher CD and a cast time on it's virtue that are instant for core. > * Firebrand: ??? A shared amount of "charge" to use it's tome skills. I believe there is to much charge to use for this trade off to be fair but that's just my opinion. > * Mirage: Endurance bar reduced to 1 > * Chronomancer: ??? Shatters changed ??? Yes, that's it. > * Tempest: ??? Longer attunment CD, which can be extended even further by overloading. > * Weaver: ??? Loss of flexibility due to shared CD on attunment swap. (Or so I think, I'm not sure if the shared CD is a thing). Anyway, if the skill 4 and 5 of a specific attunment are what you need, it take longer for you to get them, which in essence can put you into a jeopardy. > **Tradeoff** = _a balance achieved between two desirable but incompatible features; a compromise. > "a trade-off between objectivity and relevance"_ > > Which of these elite specs do not have this? They all have a trade off, some of those trade off are more fair than other, thought.

> @"Kharrus.6015" said: > -Bladedancer doesn't steal at all; the class mechanic gets changed to a block that increases the damage of its next attack based on how much gets blocked. Well, this make your idea unlikely to happen. > -sPvP doesn't even have need you to wear gear, and is essentially non-functional in the game anyway. Regardless, the pistol abilities are able to be used without a mount, so there would likely still be some combination of spec skills with the offhand weapon that make it viable. Your whole utility skill set is based on having a mount thought... An e-spec is not just being able to wield a new shiny weapon. > -Using the term "kits" for the monk was a loose analogy that I should have been more clear with, as the spec itself removes the ability for the guardian to use ANY weapon, including underwater weapons. That's a fair trade-off in my mind. A fair tradeoff indeed but also a huge work load for the devs. I'd add 2 points: - historically "monk" in GW isn't a brawler but a healing spellcaster. - Guardian's virtues are an important part of it's identity. > -Good point, I'll update that. Couldn't place what it was missing. > -Couldn't settle on viable belt skills for golem minions. Got any ideas? > -Why not? Having them share their skill slots with conjure abilities is optional, and helps curb the power meditation skills would have for them. They could be further tuned by reducing or eliminating the stat bonuses you get from picking up conjure weapons. There's no good reason things should be off the table as long as they're reasonably balanced. You're indirectly opening the door to things like different weapon skillsets based on e-specs. Which ANet is warry of because they fear that it would make players confused. That's why ANet just don't change core utility skills and weapon skillsets based on e-spec, they mainly focus on main mechanisms for their change. I'm not saying that I wouldn't be overjoyed if they changed their thought, but again, the idea is highly unlikely to happen. > -Dreamwalkers do not have a new shatter, although I wouldn't be opposed to it. Mes is flexible enough a different spec and ability set for their elite spec would be viable IMO, but any ideas would be welcome. They're the least clear spec idea here tbh. Well, the spec is just... "Bland". At this point you just make it rely on a new utility type named like the necromancer's but very different in their purpose (so far, necromancer spectral skills purpose being to feed LF to the necromancer). I guess you'd have to somehow create a "LF bar" that is made used of to give sense to the utility type within GW2's context. > -TY; had Jhin from league in mind with the idea of making bullet economy central to their playstyle. > -Wraiths don't have any free movement when leaving shroud; they ALWAYS have to return to the location of their body when they entered it, but the body itself acts like it's already "dead", so it can't be damaged. They are still vulnerable to reveals, and people can put traps on the body as a counter to it for pvp. Being mindful of your body location plays to the same mentality of being mindful to the teammates you're trying to heal as a support, so encouraging that mentality with environmental awareness is a major goal with this. With that said though, if it did actually come up as a significant issue for pvp, I could see allowing people to finish the body in pvp or wvw being allowed, since it's essentially a sitting duck. > Leaving the shroud to come back to your body is quite a lot of movement, that's what I meant. There is drawback sure but leaving your body in a safe place out of the fight and go fight on point in a relatively safe manner would probably make the sPvP community a bit angry. People have something else to bother about in sPvP than finding a body when the point is being caped by their foe. In WvW you just wouldn't use the e-spec because you just don't want to be back to your body after a push into the ennemy zerg. In PvE, there is just not much value into a stealth skill that end up bring you back to square one and retaliatory effects. The only real place for this e-spec is sPvP and the mechanism is just to much for the sPvP community to accept (especially if you got retaliatory effects on top of that).

> @"Huskyboy.1053" said: > I appreciate the thoughtful response. I can't say I agree that getting around 4k extra shroud was a big win, as most bursts (ex. core Greataxe) burst for more than 4k per hit. Considering you're losing both a stunbreak and a stack of stab, you will eat far more than that 4k shroud as a result of not being able to avoid that damage. > > That being said, my point was that dagger used to be able to finish people very quickly, which is important to power necro given its bad sustain. But you might be correct that the overall decline in damage has been an advantage for core necro. Well 4k extra LF mean that you can mitigate 8k damage since shroud take half damage. With the pretty good ability of the necromancer to grant himself protection and inflict weakness on it's foes it goes even further (which is pretty much why sPvP players tend to complain about core necromancer's survivability). I know that it's a pain to finish other players with the amount of damage the dagger does but the balance trend since HoT release has mainly been to empower the shroud over and over while letting the out of shroud ability rot and stagnate. Personnally I don't like this trend and think a lot of balance issues come from it, but the devs set bring their professions where they want to, whether we like it or not. As a player, we can either complain or exploit what ANet give us and finishing a player with the shroud can be pretty fast when exploiting the tools they gave use to deal damage in shroud.

- Flavor wise I like _glyphs._ I find it fun to have skills that have different effects based on the magic channeled. - _Signets_ might be the most interesting one yet often seem to be difficult to finely balance. I like the idea of having a passive effect and having an active effect worth sacrificing the passive. - _Corruptions_ is the skill type with the most potential in my eyes, yet I think it's potential is still wasted right now. - _Stealth attack_ is the unbalanced skill type. It's a big part of the thief dynamic but it's also one of the most toxic thing in the game. I find it hard to accept increased damage from stealth, there is no drawback for "power" in this. - The worst skill type have to be necromancer's _minions_ (well, ranger's _spirits_ are not far behind). Actives are mostly weak when not totally useless while traits focus on buffing a poor "passive" strength. The fact that it's one of the draw to the necromancer's thematic make it even more unfortunate. - _Mantra_ used to mostly be stance in gw1, I'm not a fan of what they became in gw2.