Narcemus.1348

I do have to point out that there are quite a few inaccuracies in your explanation of the skyrim creation story. For one, many Aedra fled the creation of Mundus because they knew that it would claim their power. In fact, the stars and sun are the holes that they left as they fled. Also, the Aedra and Daedra are separated out based on the primordial being that they came from, not how they responded to the creation of Mundus. Also, the creation of the world, if I recall correctly, was the idea of the spawn of Sithis, as a plan to destroy the Aedra by stealing all of their power into the mortal world...

It does seem that the Gods are mostly spiritual beings, not beings of flesh and bone. So destroying a God does seem to destroy their soul. Though I do not feel that we know anything for 100% certain. It does seem like some of Abaddon was absorbed by Kormir, though.

> @"Yannir.4132" said:

> I'm far more interested in the journey up to that point.

> Knowing ANet, it's also far more likely that they'll pull the rug from under our feet, twist the story into a whole different direction and not give us Kralk at all. Copping out with a flashy and dramatic misdirection.

Kralkatorrik is really Lyssa!

I think it will take a lot more than just Destiny's edge, I think we'll need to compile everything we have to make it work, but the most important thing for me is redemption for DE. The rest of it, while cool, is less important.

> @"Musaroxy.2874" said:

> I wanted to point out one common misconception that seems to be popping up a lot here, which is that Necromancy is a sort've taboo among the races of Tyria. It's quite to the contrary in fact. Despite the common running theme of facing off against undead creatures, as long as you understand common sense, you're fine. Humans have a respect for Necromancy stemming from one of their very Gods having a connection to it. It's not appropriate to walk around someone's corpse as a crash dummy, as seen in Ghosts of Ascalon, but there's no outright shying away from it. (For Human Necromancers see Priests/Priestesses of Grenth, Exemplar Kerida, Priestess Rhie, ect) Sylvari, while very connected into nature, are a naturally curious race, and since the opposite of life, something they're surrounded with, is death, many of them have an immense fascination with it, and how it works. (This also applies to other professions that aren't nature-themed, because they are curious and will try anything.) (For Sylvari Necromancers, see Trahearne, Killeen, various Nightmare Court NPCs, ect.) Charr are also good candidates for Necromancy. Despite magic not being a popular choice for them due to their past with the Flame Legion, Necromancers are often seen among the Ash Legion. Along side this, it makes sense for them to look into such arts, due to the constant barrage of Ghosts they face in their homelands. (For Charr Necromancers, see Nameless Ash Legion NPCs, ect, I don't know many of the Charr NPCs sorry.) Norn also have ties to Necromancy, due to their connection to Raven, which is stated very well by JTHMRulez.9378 above. (For Norn Necromancers, see the NPC literally named Necromancer, Raven Shamans, ect.) Then finally we have the Asura, who, due to their diverse ways of scientific discovery, are perfectly suited for Necromancy. The art of undeath meshes greatly with their colder methodologies. We have Asura Necromancers going back to GW1. (Oola being the number 1 example, and quite possibly Blimm, since despite his profession as a Warrior in GW1, he delved heavily into "Necromantic Golemancy". A similar venture to Oola's famed work.)

> This Necro-centered post can really be applied to any profession too, because there's really not a whole lot lore-wise that makes a certain profession fit a certain race more, aside from obvious surface connections like Ash Legion -> Thief, and Sylvari -> Ranger. If you're new, it's really best to just pick whichever profession and race combo you like best.

While I agree with you, being a necro main in both games, necromancers have always been held at arms length from society. At least among heroes. Not because it is seen as being evil, but because it is creepy an misunderstood. I mean the town crier you first talk to in Pre Searing Ascalon as a necro speaks to you like this. Sadly I cannot find it on the dialogue on the wiki, but I feel like it was something along the lines of "Please don't give me some disease or something" or "Please don't Curse me".

> @"trixantea.1230" said:

> > @"The Mad King" said:

> > If a sylvari eats a salad, is it cannibalism? That should give you something to think about. Right?

>

>

If a man eats a cow is it cannibalism? Both are made of meat...

> @"Nikolai.3648" said:

> While I mostly agree with what you said, there are a few points I would like to talk about:

>

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Rikimaru.7890" said:

> > > **Killing Balthazar with Sohothin**

> > > Yes that makes a ton of sense - killing the God of Fire with a firey sword. I mean this is like trying to drown a fish. More over Sohothin was by lore Balthazar's own sword once, also Balthazar himself reignited it when it lost it's power inside The Mists. If this was taken seriously then once we reach Balthazar he would be like: _Oh nice sword you got there!_ **snaps fingers and Sohophin loses all it's powers** _Woops how did that happen?_

> >

> > Sohothin was made by Balthazar when he was a god. It's divine magic, magic greater than himself, and the idea is "using one's strength as their weakness" which is a pretty common trope, especially in GW2 (almost overdone imo).

> >

> > Balthazar also shows that he is only capable of absorbing unleashed magic. Those inside artifacts or spells he cannot freely absorb. So he wouldn't be able to just snap his fingers and extinguish *any* fiery sword, let alone one made by divine power. Reigniting seems to be a different deal - after all, you merely need a spark to start a burner.

>

> The magic greater than himself deal should be off the table the second he is able to reignite the magic. Sure, it looks logical at first glance, use a spark to ignite a liter of gasoline. But is that a fair comparison? We don’t know what kind of energy is used to power the flames of the sword, but seeing as it went out in the mists, would it not make sense for it to be like a lightly exotherm reaction with a high activation energy? If whatever reaction producing the energy of the sword was stronger, it should not have gone out in the first place. And if only a small amount of activation energy was needed, why would Rytlock need Balthazar to reignite it? So those two instances do not seem comparable to me. Going behind that, it is rather odd that Balthazar would just let Rytlock leave with the sword when he had the chance to reclaim it right there. Even if he was still weakened, he had enough power to open a portal to Tyria (seeing how it is stated multiple times in the lore that Balthazar opened portals, I would guess it was him doing it and not some random phenomenon) – why not use this power to force Rytlock to hand over the sword instead of giving him a way to run away from him? Even if he wanted to wait, why not let Rytlock wander around in the mists and get back to Tyria on his own first and go back to reclaim the sword later? This sounds like character breaking incompetence to me. While we are at it:

>

>

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > Balthazar's Sword was likely recovered from his reliquary, reignited with Sohothin, and Kralkatorrik got a taste of what divine magic could have been like (Balthazar was a former god at the point, but he was still a god once).

>

> I might have just missed that, but at what point did Balthazar reignite his sword with Sohothin? I don’t recall a time after he got it from his vaults that he was in possession of Sohothin, which fits nicely into my critique from above: If he wanted some nice weapons from his former time as a god, why would he just let go of Sohothin like that?

>

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > Actually it's not all speculation. Devs explained this in AMA. Sohothin was Balthazar's sword and that, combined with him having lost his divinity and power (the entire purpose of his goal to take magic from the Elder Dragons), and Aurene's aide is why we were able to kill him.

>

> Speculation or not, as you have said yourself, this trope has been used more than it should be in GW2 and this time it does not even fit well: Using fire against fire is a nice metaphor, but using it against the former god of Fire and War? At that point Balthazar more or less only incorporated the dark sides of war as his character, making that the perfect point to show the players that using fire against fire just leaves the world a burned-up place, just like war does. Using it should have made the fight harder for us, not easier. If they would have pulled a stunt like giving Balthazar a power boost each time we used the sword against him and making him remark something about the irony that we try to kill him with a sword reignited by his own, only to give us the achievement if we manage to carry it through the whole fight, while making the battle much harder while we try that – that would be nice, unique and challenging. But the way it is right now? It is boring at best, an overused trope and wasted potential – in other words, it is a badly written scene.

>

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > That said, Awakened do breathe and sleep, I believe. Even if they don't biologically need to they likely would out of habit and mental need, we can see breathing animation on them, and the human psyche isn't strong enough to remain awake 24/7. Eating and drinking though...

>

> Most ghosts seem to be able to deal with it – so why should awakened not? Regardless, the fact that awakened are supposed to still eat (stated multiple times) and drink is another example of bad writing. Even if they did it out of habit (they most likely don’t, as we can see in the newest living story), why would the alcohol affect them when they lack the organs to absorb it (no metabolism = no problem)? It appears to me like the writers oftentimes do not care about logic – the by far biggest sin when creating a plot we are supposed to take seriously.

>

I believe that Konig was talking about how we, the PC, reignited Balthazar's Sword with Sohothin, not that Balthazar had done it.

Also, I do recall some discussion of the possibility that the water from the Astralarium maybe having similar magical effects to toned down holy water, possibly explaining that the awakened were drunk by magical means, not biological (of course mostly specilation). All I know is that Saida did seem to know that they needed this specific brew to get the awakened drunk, not just any alcohol.

I personally feel like Season 5 will likely have us traveling back in old areas of Orr and Heart of the Maguuma to find ways to replace Zhaitan and Mordremoth and bring some conclusion to the stories involved in that.

> @"Tyson.5160" said:

> I’m also wondering if Kralkatorrik could have branded the awakened before absorbing Zhaitan’s death sphere or if just another ability of the death magic, since the awakened are technically dead. Would be interesting to see if Kralkatorrik makes more use of the mind sphere he consumed from Mordremoth.

I would personally think that he could, since Joko had already reanimated them and he wouldn't have had to do that.

I believe that was originally planned on, but didn't get finished. Lion's Arch had Tenanera Pit which I believe had NPC's with Mini's in it fighting. But that is gone now.

> @"Nikolai.3648" said:

> > @"Narcemus.1348" said:

> > > @"Nikolai.3648" said:

> > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > > @"Nikolai.3648" said:

> > > > > Yes, we are constantly told that…just for it to be disproven time and time again. I would dare to say that while people ingame think that this is true, it might simply not be the case. There are zero examples of it happening (I will ignore Dhuum here for obvious reasons). I would think there were enough opportunities to show us that souls can’t be rescued at a certain point by now. For example: The judge claims that a soul devoured by the Eater of Souls will simply vanish – but again, we can rescue them all. Why not show us that there were indeed no souls left, only rough energy? It seems suspicious at the very least. At this point, being eternally trapped inside a demon does not only sound far crueller to me (befitting a demon), but also more likely. My quote was taken from the quest about a scarab, but I don’t see any reason for it not also applying to demons.

> > > >

> > > > I wouldn't say the few times we kill a demon to let souls out is disproving the notion at all. With the exception of the Family Matters quest in GW1, all named souls we rescue were recently devoured; and in the case of the Family Matters quest, it isn't a demon we kill but a scarab. Demons and scarabs may function differently when they devour souls for all we know, as one is a Tyrian born creature while the other is a creature born from malignant energies in the Mists. There's zero reason to believe they function at all the same. We have no way to know just how long ago those souls the Eater of Souls, etc. that we witness being freed were devoured.

> > > >

> > > > The only way to really disprove the notion is to be told that X Soul was devoured centuries ago by Y Demon, and we kill Y Demon and free X Soul who's perfectly fine. But even if X Soul doesn't show up, how do we prove it isn't just a case of "Oh, X Soul was actually in Z Demon after all".

> > >

> > > I referred to what even knowledgeable characters seem to think about what happens to a soul, as seen as with The Judge: More or less immediate destruction of the soul. Granted, the word immediately was never used, but if he knew the process to take such long amount of time, his fear would be rather unfounded, as it were not impossible for a stronger spirit to come around and solve the problem. And this was indeed not the case for every demon we could test it with. So, the idea of immediate destruction of the soul is disproven in every case we tested it, while not once we can see that a soul is lost forever. Granted, we can’t prove that demons can’t devour souls at all with time or even that it takes all demons a certain amount of time for doing so this way. But all of the “few” samples we have, we can see that what most characters seem to think about what happens to the soul after it is consumed by a demon is wrong.

> > >

> >

> > This isn't about demons, but it is about soul consumption. We know, from a tale, that Balthazar consumed the soul of a "Coward." Now, we can't prove that this tale is 100% true or just a parable, but if it were true, and souls continues to survive and would be released upon the death of their consumer, then the spirit of said coward would have been freed, but this did not seem to occur. I understand that this makes a lot of assumptions, but it does seem to point in the direction of soul extinction, as much as I hate the idea.

>

> I thought it is only about demons by now. At least I did already exclude (former) Gods here and Konig did exclude scarabs, so not much else is left:

>

> > @"Nikolai.3648" said:

> > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > > @"Nikolai.3648" said:

> > > > While I would like to agree with that statement for the sake of simplicity, do we really have prove for this? After all, all the cases that were mentioned indicate otherwise.

> > >

> > > Not really explicit proof, but we're constantly being told about the finality of a soul being devoured by a demon, despite having on multiple occasions cut up a demon to free the soul. It wouldn't really be all that final, if it was being digested for all eternity.

> >

> > Yes, we are constantly told that…just for it to be disproven time and time again. I would dare to say that while people ingame think that this is true, it might simply not be the case. **There are zero examples of it happening (I will ignore Dhuum here for obvious reasons).**

>

> But if we want to talk about Gods, the story does go like this:

>

> "You carried this coward when he lived. Now, I carry him, for he serves as my reminder that strength and courage are never to be taken for granted."

>

> To me this is implying that the spirit simply became a part of Balthazar, just like Abaddon is now a part of Kormir. It is up for debate if you want to call this kind of fusion the extinction of a soul, I can understand both opinions regarding this special case.

>

I personally would consider when one loses their individuality forever they are no longer themselves and are thus, in this case, Soul Extinct. Especially if those words were just Balthazar trying to use pretty words to explain that the coward was now a part of Balthazar in the same way that a Chipotle burrito is a part of me after lunch. The wording could be understood both ways. But I digress. Personal opinion doesn't make fact, especially when dealing in matters that we have no factual evidence of, anyways.

> @"Nikolai.3648" said:

> > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > > @"Nikolai.3648" said:

> > > Yes, we are constantly told that…just for it to be disproven time and time again. I would dare to say that while people ingame think that this is true, it might simply not be the case. There are zero examples of it happening (I will ignore Dhuum here for obvious reasons). I would think there were enough opportunities to show us that souls can’t be rescued at a certain point by now. For example: The judge claims that a soul devoured by the Eater of Souls will simply vanish – but again, we can rescue them all. Why not show us that there were indeed no souls left, only rough energy? It seems suspicious at the very least. At this point, being eternally trapped inside a demon does not only sound far crueller to me (befitting a demon), but also more likely. My quote was taken from the quest about a scarab, but I don’t see any reason for it not also applying to demons.

> >

> > I wouldn't say the few times we kill a demon to let souls out is disproving the notion at all. With the exception of the Family Matters quest in GW1, all named souls we rescue were recently devoured; and in the case of the Family Matters quest, it isn't a demon we kill but a scarab. Demons and scarabs may function differently when they devour souls for all we know, as one is a Tyrian born creature while the other is a creature born from malignant energies in the Mists. There's zero reason to believe they function at all the same. We have no way to know just how long ago those souls the Eater of Souls, etc. that we witness being freed were devoured.

> >

> > The only way to really disprove the notion is to be told that X Soul was devoured centuries ago by Y Demon, and we kill Y Demon and free X Soul who's perfectly fine. But even if X Soul doesn't show up, how do we prove it isn't just a case of "Oh, X Soul was actually in Z Demon after all".

>

> I referred to what even knowledgeable characters seem to think about what happens to a soul, as seen as with The Judge: More or less immediate destruction of the soul. Granted, the word immediately was never used, but if he knew the process to take such long amount of time, his fear would be rather unfounded, as it were not impossible for a stronger spirit to come around and solve the problem. And this was indeed not the case for every demon we could test it with. So, the idea of immediate destruction of the soul is disproven in every case we tested it, while not once we can see that a soul is lost forever. Granted, we can’t prove that demons can’t devour souls at all with time or even that it takes all demons a certain amount of time for doing so this way. But all of the “few” samples we have, we can see that what most characters seem to think about what happens to the soul after it is consumed by a demon is wrong.

>

This isn't about demons, but it is about soul consumption. We know, from a tale, that Balthazar consumed the soul of a "Coward." Now, we can't prove that this tale is 100% true or just a parable, but if it were true, and souls continues to survive and would be released upon the death of their consumer, then the spirit of said coward would have been freed, but this did not seem to occur. I understand that this makes a lot of assumptions, but it does seem to point in the direction of soul extinction, as much as I hate the idea.

I have to say that I was a bit disappointed to not see any Vabbian Nobles or unassociated Kournans or Istani invited to this meeting. I can't help but feel that they deserved a seat at the table...

I personally like the idea of seeing them come back together gain to defeat Kralk. Not because of the issue that caused their splitting in the first case, but because Kralk was their first failure as a group. It is a personal fight for them and if they weren't involved in killing him this time it would be a disappointment.

The more important question is when will we get a location to put all of our current lore books so that we don't fill out all of our inventory with said books.

If that is the case, then I am curious how in Vabbi they were creating more awakened in the name of Joko at the Necropolis. Or did I misunderstand what was happening? I very much feel like one of the judges was mad that they were continuing to make awakened without Joko present, but I could be misremembering.

It is also possible that the brand has attempted to expand around the Secluded Glen but has not succeeded in claiming this area. It makes me think about the Vabbian Sunspear Sanctuary which is in the middle of the brainstorm and yet not affected. And at the center is a woman that Kormir protected. We also cannot forget that Balthazar is said to have come into Tyria and used fire to basically clean the slate in Orr. I'm not sure how the secluded glen has stayed free of corruption, but it is an interesting topic of conversation.

Ha! I have to say, I personally hated it. It was demanding and time consuming making sure that I did everything I could over the course of 2 weeks knowing that after that period of time it would be gone. To this day I still feel a little resentment that I was never able to find a group good enough to beat the Aetherblade hideout.

Sunspear sanctuary is the actual name of a location in Kourna in Guild Wars 1. And, based on the pictures, that is likely what they are referring to.

IMO, how cool would it be if the Awakened just became free and the Elonians learned how to coexist with them, as opposed to being ruled over by them.

> @"Fenom.9457" said:

> > @"Narcemus.1348" said:

> > One thing that I haven't heard on this topic yet is the "weapon" mentioned by Vlast that we never did find and could be necessary in the killing of Kralkatorrik. I feel like that would be Episode 5, while 4 is dealing with the aftermath of Joko's death and 6-7 deal with the lead up and assault of Kralkatorrik.

>

>

> Pretty sure that weapon was the dragonsblood spear we broke

Except, based on his description of it, this weapon should do a lot more than this spear would have been capable of. It is my belief, among others (though unproven), that our character's assumption about the spear was incorrect. That Vlast was talking about something else. But again, I have no proof.

One thing people don't seem to be mentioning is that the Pact wasn't made to fight rouge gods or undead liches, their sole purpose was to deal with the elder Dragon problem. So it made sense for them to not be around during POF, because we weren't fighting a dragon, and it has already been mentioned that they are taking some time to recoup from Mordremoth. Palawa Joko and Balthazar weren't their fights, so it made sense for them to sit back.

One thing that I haven't heard on this topic yet is the "weapon" mentioned by Vlast that we never did find and could be necessary in the killing of Kralkatorrik. I feel like that would be Episode 5, while 4 is dealing with the aftermath of Joko's death and 6-7 deal with the lead up and assault of Kralkatorrik.

Okay, I will look into it. This was just the first I had noticed it and I quickly swap mounts often.

I do not know if this is mentioned yet or if it is a new thing, but just today I purchased some of the desert racer mount skins and shortly after unlocking the skins I noticed that strangely my mounts refuse to walk backwards. I had some friends see what I was doing, and from their perspective my mounts were doing the animation of walking backwards, but were staying in place. On my screen they weren't even doing that. This is happening on all of my mounts, even though I only applied 2 of the new mount skins, and it is incredibly annoying, especially when trying to line a springer up for a good jump. In case it would be useful, I unlocked the Ntouka Snakeskin, Stormchaser, Trailblazer, Iceberg, and Primeval Roller Beetle.