Elxdark.9702

soulbeast damage was and it is still disgusting, why? well all the pet damage modifiers go into the player when merged so yeah sic'em + moment of clarity can give you those huge mauls and worldy impacts

it mostly affect soulbeast since you get all the pet % boosts when merged.

definitely needs some nerfs.

nerf shadow arts, better if you just remove it entirely.

this is the thief curse, 3 spam.

No matter the build or weapon set you always end up spamming 3 as your main source of dps, that's how the class was designed not sure if intended and with the exception being d/p. Also Daredevil makes it even more spammy with more dodges.

Pistol whip will probably receive a damage nerf then it will be split into 2 skills like they did with LS.

But imo I think the real problem is Escapist's Fortitude, for some reason anet thought merging the condi cleanse x dodge trait with heal x dodge would make a fair trade for daredevil but obviously it is not, this also was an issue with staff staff thief as well.

I'd like to split the trait again but tbh I think it just needs a cd increase, between 3-5 seconds would be fine, I think with that and a damage nerf to pw would be enough.

I personally don't really mind thieves running this and I can agree that the build is not exactly hard to play but if I have to choose between this and condi thief I would pick up this any day.

remove pof buff thief

I miss the old dp montages Feelsbadman

it's an unhealthy build for the game but that doesn't mean it's a good build.

it is bad, and you know why it seems good? because people actually fight it, the only role this build has is 1v1 side, if you don't send anyone to 1v1 that then you are 4v5 because it does 0 damage in tfs and doesn't have any chase potential outside vault lol.

the fact that this build is now usable in mats, it tells you how bad the game has become that there isn't a single rotation as a team, thief is gone portal is gone, everybody just zerg and press buttons until enemy is dead, rinse and repeat, there is not strategy no combos no sinergy, just spam your abilities because everything do so much damage that it doesn't matter.

that's when staff staff shines, when the only way to play the game is 3 points so you always need to 1v1 the staff thief instead of 2 points and decap but again there is not portal or thief there is just damage.

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > > @"DoritoGod.5817" said:

> > > > > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > > > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > > > > > So, for the purpose of this discussion, consider these two future updates. First for the short-term: **What outliers do you see in the current meta?** Then think about the big picture: **What issues do you see on a fundamental level that should be addressed?**

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Hey there and Thank you for the Update.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I have to ask, are the sentences in **bold** ment as questions for the players or an example of what is the Team going to ask themselves when balancing/spliting?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, you say it should be focused mainly on splits, does it mean we should not expect changes to functionality of skills, but instead simple number tweaks?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Would **for example**, caping might stacks at 10 be considered a split or somewhat complicated change that is for now off the board?

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > For this post, these questions are for the players as discussion topics. They are also things that the team is discussing internally as we look toward these balance updates.

> > > > >

> > > > > I want you all to focus on splits because those are the changes we can do with no impact on the rest of the game. If a split makes sense for PvP or WvW, we can just do it. Functionality changes require larger discussions about the impact on the whole game. We are starting discussions internally about things that are not addressable with numbers changes, because there are things that need a functional change but need to change for the sake of competitive modes.

> > > > >

> > > > > Game mode-specific boon caps is something that we have talked about, but there are other ways that we can solve some of these problems. For the example of might, I'd want to look at the sources and durations of might applications. 25 might isn't necessarily a problem if it requires significant investment from multiple team members, but a single player self-stacking 25 might is something that probably shouldn't happen. There's also the possibility of splitting the effectiveness on a game mode basis.

> > > >

> > > > im glad ur back at arenanet (:

> > > >

> > > > but yea delete condi thief

> > >

> > > Very near future release note:

> > > * Deadly Ambition: The internal cooldown of this trait has been increased from 5 to 10 seconds in PvP only. The stacks of poison has been decreased from 2 to 1 in PvP only.

> > > We're not sure it's enough but hopefully a good start.

> >

> > NO, please stop with this pattern of nerfing/buffing things, changes like these are why the game is totally unbearable today.

> >

> > The trait is good at it is at the moment, it helps a lot of condi builds that are not even viable or good, the only one that is overperforming is condi s/d.

> > Please instead of nerfing a trait/skill until it becomes garbage (like most of your balance patches) start looking at the bigger picture.

> >

> > What's wrong here is sword #2 interaction with panic strike, and it has been long before PoF (remember condi thief ventari rev meta) you never removed condi thief, you just nerfed it and people realized core was better now it's the same, you nerfed core power and people realized condi thief is much better.

> >

> > Remove the poison from panic strike, it's the easiest solution you can do, it will literally have 0 effect in any situation, what makes panic strike worth of choosing is first the other traits are worse and the immobilize effect is crucial in some situations for thieves (chasing) that's it, the poison is unnecessary so remove the poison and add anything else, boom you delete condi s/d thief for good and you don't nerf other condi builds.

>

> They are looking at the bigger picture. The problem lies in Daredevil s/d because the traits that allow it to stack 6 poison in one go, on top of other things that give poison, are what causes Daredevil s/d to be as unbearable as it is now.

lol no they aren't, the problem lies in SWORD #2 not Daredevil, do you really think people would still use s/d condi if they can't poison with sword 2?

I'm saying that instead of doing what they always do (nerfing a skill/trait until it becomes unviable) remove the poison from panic strike which gives the free poison ticks for sword 2.

as long as you have a dodge you can press while cc'ed mirage will be never fun to play against and balanced.

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"DoritoGod.5817" said:

> > > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > @"Cal Cohen.2358" said:

> > > > > So, for the purpose of this discussion, consider these two future updates. First for the short-term: **What outliers do you see in the current meta?** Then think about the big picture: **What issues do you see on a fundamental level that should be addressed?**

> > > >

> > > > Hey there and Thank you for the Update.

> > > >

> > > > I have to ask, are the sentences in **bold** ment as questions for the players or an example of what is the Team going to ask themselves when balancing/spliting?

> > > >

> > > > Also, you say it should be focused mainly on splits, does it mean we should not expect changes to functionality of skills, but instead simple number tweaks?

> > > >

> > > > Would **for example**, caping might stacks at 10 be considered a split or somewhat complicated change that is for now off the board?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > For this post, these questions are for the players as discussion topics. They are also things that the team is discussing internally as we look toward these balance updates.

> > >

> > > I want you all to focus on splits because those are the changes we can do with no impact on the rest of the game. If a split makes sense for PvP or WvW, we can just do it. Functionality changes require larger discussions about the impact on the whole game. We are starting discussions internally about things that are not addressable with numbers changes, because there are things that need a functional change but need to change for the sake of competitive modes.

> > >

> > > Game mode-specific boon caps is something that we have talked about, but there are other ways that we can solve some of these problems. For the example of might, I'd want to look at the sources and durations of might applications. 25 might isn't necessarily a problem if it requires significant investment from multiple team members, but a single player self-stacking 25 might is something that probably shouldn't happen. There's also the possibility of splitting the effectiveness on a game mode basis.

> >

> > im glad ur back at arenanet (:

> >

> > but yea delete condi thief

>

> Very near future release note:

> * Deadly Ambition: The internal cooldown of this trait has been increased from 5 to 10 seconds in PvP only. The stacks of poison has been decreased from 2 to 1 in PvP only.

> We're not sure it's enough but hopefully a good start.

NO, please stop with this pattern of nerfing/buffing things, changes like these are why the game is totally unbearable today.

The trait is good at it is at the moment, it helps a lot of condi builds that are not even viable or good, the only one that is overperforming is condi s/d.

Please instead of nerfing a trait/skill until it becomes garbage (like most of your balance patches) start looking at the bigger picture.

What's wrong here is sword #2 interaction with panic strike, and it has been long before PoF (remember condi thief ventari rev meta) you never removed condi thief, you just nerfed it and people realized core was better now it's the same, you nerfed core power and people realized condi thief is much better.

Remove the poison from panic strike, it's the easiest solution you can do, it will literally have 0 effect in any situation, what makes panic strike worth of choosing is first the other traits are worse and the immobilize effect is crucial in some situations for thieves (chasing) that's it, the poison is unnecessary so remove the poison and add anything else, boom you delete condi s/d thief for good and you don't nerf other condi builds.

good guy cmc, I'm always harsh against anet when it comes to pvp but this is a good start, hopefully this isn't the only time you do this, I'm sure everybody would appreciate these threads for every balance patch so you guys get a word of what's getting out of balance and unhealthy for the game.

builds/specs that need to be toned down for pvp

* holo (damage wise, boon duration)

* condi thief (unhealthy gameplay, literally everybody can play this and do well)

* staff thief (unhealthy gameplay, too much spam, low risk high reward)

* firebrand (too much heal and boons, makes other support specs unviable)

* mirage (rework the dodge)

builds/specs that need to be improved for pvp

* Druid (make ca 10 seconds cd again, remove stealth from celestial shadow)

* Soulbeast (rework pet's abilities in beastmode there are like 4 pets that are worth to use in this mode, the rest are useless, buff dagger main hand a lot, nerf boon duration)

* Tempest (doesn't need any buffs, just nerf firebrand boon application)

* Daredevil/thief (revert all dagger nerfs, give swipe 900 range or give it new stolen abilities, swap havoc specialist with escapist's fortitude, put icd on weakening strikes

remove all the vigor from Acrobatics line, replace it with something more creative than a static boon)

General changes:

* tone down boon duration by a lot in these boons - quickness, protection, might and vigor these should only give you a boost in your dps rotation for a few seconds not minutes.

* rework amulet stats, demolisher has to go.

i haven't played the game in a while but that would be from what I've seen lately.

1- u play staff tempest which is a counter to DE

2- that's sirvivaldi (the legend) known for playing zerker amulet and one shoting people or being useless the 15 minutes of the match by being perma dead.

it's DE fun to play against? no, it's any POF spec fun to play against? no.

remove zerker amulet.

and? do you think the people that are playing ats right now will stop playing? no

The people playing gw2 pvp don't have anything else to do, because otherwise you would spend your time in a good game, in fact swiss will increase the population in ats even if it becomes extremely buggy (which I'm 100% sure it will) these people will keep spamming ats and playing monthlies because they literally can't stop playing a dead game.

at this point if anet decides to throw a rock in pvp people will play with it because there's ZERO content and terrible balance, swiss won't fix anything.

The only thing that can save pvp right now is 2v2 arenas and implement it to ranked system with different rewards and stuff but they won't and you know why? because they don't care.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > lul the only reeason why there were so many thief builds is because they decided for some reason to bring back condi thief and acro staff, both are unhealthy for the game and it has been proven that the community DOESN'T LIKE THEM AT ALL, why would they bring them back? probably because they have a hamster working in the pvp section.

> >

> > "Deadeye thieves" literally only ddbuf played de, and sind played dp for some reason which didn't do that much. everybody else was playing condi thief and acro staff, only few were playing s/d core.

>

> Maybe the brought them back cuz playing power s/d for yrs gets very boring. More viable builds the better and thief is no exception. Few are playing power s/d cuz they've been already playing that build for yrs lol

i would rather play s/d thief forever than playing acro staff or condi thief, literally cancer.

dp died for this? to play freaking 2 buttons spam builds???

this community have a weird concept of more viable builds equal good balance or better balance, in paper it sounds good but when you have a clueless team like Anet doing the balance then it's not good because there's the chance of creating these abominations.

lul the only reeason why there were so many thief builds is because they decided for some reason to bring back condi thief and acro staff, both are unhealthy for the game and it has been proven that the community DOESN'T LIKE THEM AT ALL, why would they bring them back? probably because they have a hamster working in the pvp section.

"Deadeye thieves" literally only ddbuf played de, and sind played dp for some reason which didn't do that much. everybody else was playing condi thief and acro staff, only few were playing s/d core.

poor soul still thinking anet will do any of these things KEKW

just accept the reality the game will get worse and worse, nothing will stop it because Anet gave up it already long time ago.

report this bluri guy super toxic

> @"SehferViega.8725" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > Most of what I had in mind to say about that was already mentioned here in one way or other.

> > However, I have to express my disappointment _(yet definitely not surprised)_ how Condi S/D was not touched/adjusted at all except getting buffed through the Swipe change.

> > Overall I am just happy it was not filled with the usual _"we nerfed this and this, this, this too oh and that as well"_

>

> Deadly Ambition (theorized) change: reduce poison stacks from 3 to 2 (with Potent Poison) with an increased duration (from 3 seconds to 5 seconds, so it measn that poison can last for a max duration of 10 seconds).

>

> These changes do not affect Condi S/D Daredevil very much, but they hit hard other builds.

> IMHO, it would be better remove the "poison the enemy that you immobilize" from the Panic Strike trait.

WHAT? that's a really easy change you see, here in ANET we don't do that but we can keep nerfing deadly ambition until is so bad that nobody uses it!

oh well it's trash, alright lets play condi thief then I think that's what anet wants

I like it, we may finally be able to use exe without feeling bad for not picking the better trait.

anyways if it resets the skills on cd then it's going to be even better since you could just exploit it as someone said "mercy into steal into mercy" so basically 3 steals.. you never know it's anet boys anything could happen.

they actually buffed condi thief indirectly by the swipe reduction, l m a o what a joke of a company

is it so hard to remove the immobilize part of IS and add something else like cripple or even chill???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I mean anyone with a single brain cell can tell the problem isn't the poison itself but how it is applied, guess anet has a hamster working in pvp.

that way you remove condi s/d thief from the earth while having other condi builds viable without killing them because 1 of them is overperforming.

pvp is dead and cannot be saved so i recommend to play few games every month or so if you feel like pvping, find another game to invest your time.

we have this conversation every stupid season, solo or duoq both are bad because the game is dead and the balance is so damn awful that it actually makes people avoid pvp all together.

at this point it doesn't really matter what option we have, the playerbase for pvp is so minimal that it's going to suck anyways lol

literally every time I watch a gw2 pvp streamer they either complain all stream about how trash their team is or simply they just rage quit because they can't keep playing anymore lmao

this build has always been useless and bad but it works in ranked because people will outnumber it so your main goal is go to far and 1v1 the entire game, but the true purpose of this build is simply stack people with you so your team can win fights.

This is why u will never see this build in any monthly or anything close to competitive games because it's easily avoided and it's boring af.

The problem is not the skill itself, it's an elite with 90s cd it has to be good or at least worth to use it.

The real problem is that it gets reset by improv and that's super broken, improv shouldn't restore elite/heals period. I wish I had my vod where in one of my matches improv procs DS 7 times lol