Elxdark.9702

> @"syszery.1592" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > Because it doesn't have counterplay, all the dodges you named they all have some kind of counterplay and they all have been nerfed in some way.

>

> This is not true: If you time your attack well, you can just make it hit the moment when dodge roll ends and then just spam cc/aoe at that point. Either the thief uses another defensive skill or he takes all the damage. And how do you counter e. g. Mirage Cloak?

>

"if you time your attack well" ok, now what can you do against double dodge then? 6 seconds stealth + free disengage against any kind of attack, balanced right btw you can also dodge forward then backwards to bait cc/damage and guess what people won't know because you're in stealth :)

Don't even try to compare a broken design with another broken design as Mirage Cloak, both are extremely unhealthy for the game and everybody knows.

> > Did you even read what I said? again this skill doesn't have any counterplay if you can't see the animation, it's a 3 second KNOCKDOWN + immobilize from stealth???????? tell me how can I prevent this skill if I don't the the deadeye coming.

>

> Your argument is simply false. There is counter play. The easiest way to avoid being hit is just dodge the skill (dodge roll, Distortion, Instant Reflexes,...). Before you start with "what you can't see you can't dodge": Yes, but then basically all attacks from stealth (like Backstab or even an auto attack) would be the same and hence need nerf. Moreover, it can be blinded and blocked. Even if you are already hit by the skill, you can stun break or use an invuln. So, at least in theory, there is plenty of counter play.

>

Sure, because there are so many attacks that can KNOCKDOWN you for 3 seconds, corrupt boons, immobilize, apply 15 stack of vulnerability right? btw any decent deadeye or even mediocre ones will time this skill with mark so you get the knockdown + DJ combo. (also you will rip aegis/stability before the skill lands in pvp with trickery)

> And how do you actually counter skills like Endure Pain, Distortion, Signet of Stone etc.? Just wait 2-6s? That's like saying: Ok, stealth on dodge is 3-4s, so just wait. What about teleports like Shadow Step or Blink? They are all instant and can be used while cc'ed (and most of them even break stun).

I can see all those skills you named, I can't see how much stealth time you have.

Again you're starting to run out of excuses, no matter how hard you try to defend Deadeye or stealth on dodge, it's wrong and it should be changed.

> @"syszery.1592" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > the 3 reasons why deadeye is now really dumb are

> > * Stealth on dodge

> > * Binding Shadow

> > * Death's Judgment

> >

> > Add a 5 second icd for stealth on dodge or just back to the old trait.

>

> Why only ICD on Silent Scope? To put it in line with similar traits then there should also be ICD on Unhindered Combatant/Bounding Dodger/Lotus Training/Expeditious Dodger and all the traits from other classes like mirage etc.

>

Because it doesn't have counterplay, all the dodges you named they all have some kind of counterplay and they all have been nerfed in some way.

> > Make binding shadow only available when out of stealth to prevent one shot mechanics that you can't counterplay. Or Casting this skill reveals you for 4 seconds.

>

> A class that is designed around stealth (depending on the build it's used heavily, moderately or just situationally - but every build can utilize it) should really have a skill that is not usable while stealthed? This does not make sense...

>

Did you even read what I said? again this skill doesn't have any counterplay if you can't see the animation, it's a 3 second KNOCKDOWN + immobilize from stealth???????? tell me how can I prevent this skill if I don't the the deadeye coming.

> > Make Death's Judgment a F3 skill, you can only use it when you have 5 or more malice.

> > (put cursed bullet back to stealth attack)

>

> I am not sure about your F3 idea but: Yes, please, give us CB back :+1:

>

> > After coming back for a few weeks, I can safely say that this version of deadeye is really easy and extremely rewarding without any punishment.

> > I don't think and of you "deadeye mains" remember how the spec used to be before the rework when it was annoying but at least it required more brain cells to play it correctly, right now it's just another noob stomper spec that u can learn in 1 week.

>

> You can get good enough with any build in less than two hours if your goal is to just stomp noobs...

I don't know what game mode you play, I play ranked and the best way to win ranked games is not being necessary good at the game but abuse specs/builds like deadeye which are very easy to use and have an insane amount of instant damage that can kill any player in fact if they are not awareness of your presence aka one shot builds.

Good players already have problems dealing with this class, what's left for new people or bad players.. nothing but a stomp.

the 3 reasons why deadeye is now really dumb are

* Stealth on dodge

* Binding Shadow

* Death's Judgment

Add a 5 second icd for stealth on dodge or just back to the old trait.

Make binding shadow only available when out of stealth to prevent one shot mechanics that you can't counterplay. Or Casting this skill reveals you for 4 seconds.

Make Death's Judgment a F3 skill, you can only use it when you have 5 or more malice.

(put cursed bullet back to stealth attack)

After coming back for a few weeks, I can safely say that this version of deadeye is really easy and extremely rewarding without any punishment.

I don't think and of you "deadeye mains" remember how the spec used to be before the rework when it was annoying but at least it required more brain cells to play it correctly, right now it's just another noob stomper spec that u can learn in 1 week.

**Necro** : reroll

made it into top 10 2 seasons ago with it, it should be a bit worse now with soulbeast around and the nerf to lead attacks, it's definitely playable in ranked games but I won't recommend it unless you're good at it.

> @"santso.9201" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > > > lol. this change was good. stacking dmg modifiers outside of combat is dumb, it encourages one shot builds.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Did they make the same change to Maul?

> > > > >

> > > > > do ranger one shots have anything to do with teef one shots?

> > > >

> > > > can you tell me when was the last time a thief one shot you?

> > > > We are talking about PvP not WvW and we're talking about THIEF no Deadeye.

> > >

> > > Two days ago. 19k vault.

> > >

> >

> > we are close to 2019 and people still getting one shot by the most telegraphed skill in the game?

> > anyways 19k is not possible unless the thief is running critical strikes deadly arts daredevil with zerk amulet AND you have to be below 50%, it is still hard to achieve that damage in a normal ranked game.

> >

> > There's no reason to approve this change unless you hate thief which seems to be the perfect excuse to say " yeah mang it's a good nerf cuz thief can one shot from stealth duuuhh"

>

> All you need to do is activate assassins signet. Like in wvw you see 25k vaults against ppl with 2,5k armor

Again I'm not talking about WvW, in PVP (ranked and ATs) I haven't seen any thief one shotting someone from full hp, we can talk all day of how broken WvW is but PvP is not even close to that and shouldn't be affected by changes needed for WvW.

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> Everyone blaming DE for this nerf really should have been having a look at the oneshot staff build people have been using recently, which also got nerfed in this patch. You can't lay the blame solely on DE and it's damage when daredevils were running around slapping people for 20k+ vaults abusing the shadowstep trick to play it like a backstab.

but this wasn't a problem in pvp, when will Anet understand that WvW is full of BS builds and PvP has max like 1-2 builds per class.

They can't do balance for WvW and put it in PvP as well because WvW is full of one shot builds or whatever they have there.

This trait hurts every thief build because it's used in every thief build (at least in pvp) instead of nerfing the skills from the one shot builds (Vault/DJ) this is just truly Anet way to nerf stuff, I'm not surprised they did this but at the same time it's so stupid.

Yeah and probably s/d monkey thieves are happy since they can just jump around and spamming 3 + steal, happy that they don't have to play d/p again cuz they don't know how to do it.

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > if you're using my build then it's like urejt said, that build has better 1v1s and focus on winning the teamfights fast.

> >

> > Your main role will be always +1 though. Deadeye has the enough damage to +1 any class in the game that's a big difference between sd dp and deadeye, you have to abuse that damage because it's a trade off for the mobility.

> >

> > Core guardian is actually really easy to beat, just be sure that they don't see you coming. This is an advice for any class you're going to face always try to be in stealth so they don't see you coming. That's a huge advantage against anyone with a brain.

> > My rotation against core guardian is pretty simple, stealth - mark - then you can choose between a 3 spam x2 or DJ they will dodge and panic if they don't use the elite or the heal by then use shadow meld and DJ again, they should be dead.

> >

> > That was my rotation against guardians in general, FBs dies in that rotation as well if you're using the power signet. it's still a tough 1v1 that if im not sure i wouldn't take it.

> > Against thieves is really easy tbh, abuse ur range s/d thief will instantly jump on you so you just have to put the mark on, use rifle 2 once and swap to sword pistol 3, that's an easy steal bait and 99% of the thieves do the same as soon as they see a deadeye, with s/p 3 quickness you should be able to proc instanst reflexes so you will have a huge advantage in the duel. if that's doesn't work try to get in spots they can't steal or teleport and in meele range spam pistol whip, if they get hit by 1 pistol whip with quickness is like half of the health or more if they don't have instanst reflexes.

>

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > if you're using my build then it's like urejt said, that build has better 1v1s and focus on winning the teamfights fast.

> >

> > Your main role will be always +1 though. Deadeye has the enough damage to +1 any class in the game that's a big difference between sd dp and deadeye, you have to abuse that damage because it's a trade off for the mobility.

> >

> > Core guardian is actually really easy to beat, just be sure that they don't see you coming. This is an advice for any class you're going to face always try to be in stealth so they don't see you coming. That's a huge advantage against anyone with a brain.

> > My rotation against core guardian is pretty simple, stealth - mark - then you can choose between a 3 spam x2 or DJ they will dodge and panic if they don't use the elite or the heal by then use shadow meld and DJ again, they should be dead.

> >

> > That was my rotation against guardians in general, FBs dies in that rotation as well if you're using the power signet. it's still a tough 1v1 that if im not sure i wouldn't take it.

> > Against thieves is really easy tbh, abuse ur range s/d thief will instantly jump on you so you just have to put the mark on, use rifle 2 once and swap to sword pistol 3, that's an easy steal bait and 99% of the thieves do the same as soon as they see a deadeye, with s/p 3 quickness you should be able to proc instanst reflexes so you will have a huge advantage in the duel. if that's doesn't work try to get in spots they can't steal or teleport and in meele range spam pistol whip, if they get hit by 1 pistol whip with quickness is like half of the health or more if they don't have instanst reflexes.

>

> Thx. Also plz stream again and or make more vids. There's very little reference for DE on pvp. Watching your stuff was very helpful. Really helped me move from silver something to gold 3.

>

>

I will try, my schedule is really messed up at the moment but I want to start streaming again at least twice a week.

Also after the patch the s/p build critical strikes is worse against guardians since DJ is blockable now so the advice I gave you isn't valid anymore :/

You can also watch dDbuff, he plays deadeye in EU and I will probably play his build this season.

> @"Platanos.8107" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > > @"Weasel.9684" said:

> > > Christ why is no one talking about the changes on consume plasma that’s huge in swinging the matchup against mesmers.Especially condi ones

> >

> > because it wasn't nerfed for us??

> > Resistance + quickness is still there my friend, nothing has changed for the match up against mesmer.

>

> It did get nerfed. The duration on protection and stab is less than half. Not saying anything about the matchup against mesmers, just saying that it has indeed been nerfed.

Yes I know but the guy I quoted he literally said that the nerf to plasma changed the matchup but that's isn't true.

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > > > lol. this change was good. stacking dmg modifiers outside of combat is dumb, it encourages one shot builds.

> > > >

> > > > Did they make the same change to Maul?

> > >

> > > do ranger one shots have anything to do with teef one shots?

> >

> > can you tell me when was the last time a thief one shot you?

> > We are talking about PvP not WvW and we're talking about THIEF no Deadeye.

>

> Two days ago. 19k vault.

>

we are close to 2019 and people still getting one shot by the most telegraphed skill in the game?

anyways 19k is not possible unless the thief is running critical strikes deadly arts daredevil with zerk amulet AND you have to be below 50%, it is still hard to achieve that damage in a normal ranked game.

There's no reason to approve this change unless you hate thief which seems to be the perfect excuse to say " yeah mang it's a good nerf cuz thief can one shot from stealth duuuhh"

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > > lol. this change was good. stacking dmg modifiers outside of combat is dumb, it encourages one shot builds.

> >

> > Did they make the same change to Maul?

>

> do ranger one shots have anything to do with teef one shots?

can you tell me when was the last time a thief one shot you?

We are talking about PvP not WvW and we're talking about THIEF no Deadeye.

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > > @"dagger dave.5201" said:

> > > > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > > > > @"dagger dave.5201" said:

> > > > > Dolyak Stance: This skill no longer applies retaliation. Instead, it now reduces incoming condition damage and physical damage by 33% for the duration of the stance in addition to its other effects.

> > > > >

> > > > > Lol... Perma prot, perma -33% dmg from condis due to a trait and now another -33% power and condi dmg reduction with a 33% uptime.... I don't understand

> > > >

> > > > I'm confused - won't it only work for 6 seconds? So not perma?

> > >

> > > It will be 9 seconds with the trait, So 33% uptime on top of the Perma-33% to power and condi damage given by protection

> >

> > Sigh, soulbeast is stupid

>

> So is S/D shortbow Thief. It's over performing as well.

no lol, the only possible way someone may think S/D thief is over perfoming is either trolling or being bad at mesmer.

> @"Weasel.9684" said:

> Christ why is no one talking about the changes on consume plasma that’s huge in swinging the matchup against mesmers.Especially condi ones

because it wasn't nerfed for us??

Resistance + quickness is still there my friend, nothing has changed for the match up against mesmer.

**"Additionally, soulbeasts are currently overperforming in competitive game modes, so we're lowering the power of some of the skills used in their builds. We also took this opportunity to enhance a few of their weaker stances."**

_Looks at Dolyak Stance_

_Uninstalls the game_

> @"Schnitzel.8270" said:

> I haven't been playing this game a very long time but is it just me or does it almost sound like Deadeye is getting nerfed to death?

>

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > Death's Judgment: This skill can now be blocked.

> So the time/initiative we spent building up malice to stealth and use DJ, all the enemy has to do now is see a deadeye that suddenly disappears > use a block/reflect skill > deadeye gets killed by their own shot?

>

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > Silent Scope: This trait no longer grants an additional 20% chance to critically hit with kneeling rifle skills and Death's Judgment. It now grants up to 120 precision regardless of the weapon the thief wields, and an additional 120 precision while wielding a rifle.

> So if I have a berserker build with ascended gear and superior deadeye runes (too broke for scholars), does this mean instead of getting a flat +20% crit chance increase, I now get 120 precision. So would this be a downgrade or an upgrade? (not too sure how many points = 1%)

>

> Can someone explain this update in simple terms? Did the thief/deadeye class get buffed or nerfed or buffed here but nerfed there?

You get a 120 precision in any weapon + another 120 precision if you have rifle, DJ nerf was predictable and it's fine. I'd rather make it a f3 skill instead of the stealth attack but this nerf also means that they don't want you to spam this skill over and over again.

Deadeye is barely touched this patch lol, malice backstab is still a big problem in WvW I think, stealth on dodge is still in the game so yeah the only relevant nerf to deadeye was lead attacks, at least in pvp trickery is a must so that hurts deadeye burst potential for sure.

Agreed, very bad change and unnecessary imo.

at this point i think anet want thieves to either reroll rev or play deadeye.

> @"Kain Francois.4328" said:

> I just don't understand the changes from percent to power. It's unintuitive.

>

> What does it actually increase % damage by now?

They are trying to tone down the damage in general and that's a really good step imo.

the only thing I didn't like was the change to lead attacks but they nerfed everybody else so I guess it's fine.

if you're using my build then it's like urejt said, that build has better 1v1s and focus on winning the teamfights fast.

Your main role will be always +1 though. Deadeye has the enough damage to +1 any class in the game that's a big difference between sd dp and deadeye, you have to abuse that damage because it's a trade off for the mobility.

Core guardian is actually really easy to beat, just be sure that they don't see you coming. This is an advice for any class you're going to face always try to be in stealth so they don't see you coming. That's a huge advantage against anyone with a brain.

My rotation against core guardian is pretty simple, stealth - mark - then you can choose between a 3 spam x2 or DJ they will dodge and panic if they don't use the elite or the heal by then use shadow meld and DJ again, they should be dead.

That was my rotation against guardians in general, FBs dies in that rotation as well if you're using the power signet. it's still a tough 1v1 that if im not sure i wouldn't take it.

Against thieves is really easy tbh, abuse ur range s/d thief will instantly jump on you so you just have to put the mark on, use rifle 2 once and swap to sword pistol 3, that's an easy steal bait and 99% of the thieves do the same as soon as they see a deadeye, with s/p 3 quickness you should be able to proc instanst reflexes so you will have a huge advantage in the duel. if that's doesn't work try to get in spots they can't steal or teleport and in meele range spam pistol whip, if they get hit by 1 pistol whip with quickness is like half of the health or more if they don't have instanst reflexes.

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Highlie.7641" said:

> > stealth on deadeye. Everyone agrees.

>

> it being changed i would agree. but he askes just for it to be removed as that.

> the issue for the opponent currently is that he cannot interrupt it. the issue for the deadeye currently is that a dodge roll is a pretty long time for the opponent to land a burst / cc at the end of it, wich makes you very vulnerable in your first second(s) of stealth when you want to use it defensively, while it also takes too long pressure off your opponent with a clear animation before the next very obvious animation for a DJ making it even harder to land. i would prefer it being interruptable but faster, without moving place. but i would still like it to use endurance as cost for that skill. it would be more interactive as it could be interrupted and it would give deadeye a better option to utilize highground 'snipe spots' like on a pillar.

>

> just removing it and relying on one in the chamber as he said it will mean that we indeed have to build up malice before we can stealth or use utilities, but our only unblockable attack is from stealth. therefor we would be much easier shut down by projectile hate/blocks, still not as bad as p/p due to superior range and DR but the viability would drop alot. an option to compensate this would be moving the unblockable from DJ to rifle 2, but i am sure many would prefer deadeye to stealth more frequent than an unblockable rifle 2.

>

> you can make it interactive without just 'remove it' , thats why i said earlier he should propose actual changes and how the build played would look like with those in his oppinon, instead of just asking for removal. same with necro rez, he even said its not that good mostly aside from that one situation where its unfun, but he didnt propose a change to blood necros support to make it more fun, not just against but also playing it yourself.

heres my change wvw warrior, remove stealth on dodge because it's cancer and it's not healthy for the game, put the old trait back and boom there you have stealth application and counterplay.

There's no need for "but if they remove stealth on dodge how is deadeye going to defend itself???" well let me tell you that with the old trait if you used kneel in combat you would get absolutely rekt and that's called punishment, right now every pressure going to you it's simply avoided by dodging x2.

Kneel got qol changes after the rework, it feels smoother to use and it doesn't feel like you're stuck while using it.

Remove stealth on dodge, get the old trait back.

> @"Sigmoid.7082" said:

> It doesn't matter what is in the patch be it good or bad it will be "trash" resulting in "the worst balance ever". Despite the change to abrasive grit showing the sort of process they go through when making changes and the thought behind them Anet will be "doing things at random" because they have "no idea about the game". Also "I could have come up with a better balance patch than this"

so do think they have been doing a wonderful job so far? a rat could have implemented better changes than this clown fiesta we have now.

**_There's a general balance patch tomorrow. It's not PvP focused, but does have some PvP splits_**

This is what Ben said on discord about the patch so please don't expect that much you will get disappointed anyways.

yes, sometimes I do then I regret then I do it again.

> @"dDuff.3860" said:

> > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > none of these videos are showing up, they look like big black squares. maybe only for na peeps?

> working fine for me and other guys from the thread, check you flash player settings or try to watch on twitch, may be

>

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > I watched the last match against Sind's team, you played pretty well but it just reminded the limitations of this spec while it can do insane dps/burst it lacks so much in every other aspect of the game, despite that you played it as it should be played, going into fights and killing your target as fast as possible.

> >

> > I guess it's pretty much confirmed that you can play Deadeye in high lvl pvp such as ATs or other tournaments, and not only as a pug stomper in ranked.

> > Anyways I really enjoyed the gameplay, I just wish they would revert the deadeye rework I liked deadeye before they made it more annoying with the splendid idea of stealth on dodge and 0 cd 0 initiative DJ lol.

>

> Thanks man, I don't think deadeye lacking anything which other thief build have. Deadeye is superior at winning teamfights because it doesn't require "valid path" to steal and can push targets from far distance. Unfortunately, I haven't experienced deadeye "pre-rework", but I doubt it was worth playing rifle back there.

>

> Not looking into dodge-on-stealth rework because it is still a fair tradeoff of defensive cooldown (which endurance obviously is in a more wide sense) for opportunity to land damage.

> In case class balance stays the same, deadeye doesn't need any additional nerfs atm.

>

>

oh believe me it was worth playing back then, it required a bit more of skill since you were easy to punish and kill quicker, I played a lot deadeye back then and I'm 100% sure it was stronger than it is now. I won't discuss with you guys about balance, that's for another thread but if you think stealth on dodge is a fair tradeoff mmm then it's gonna be hard to talk about that :)

About Deadeye lacking things, I think it's just steal/mark comparison in the end. Steal is just so much stronger and better than mark in every way in my opinion.

Deadeye as you said it's really good cleaning teamfights or any target tbh and that's why I like it because it does damage to everything that moves and that's really fun.

I watched the last match against Sind's team, you played pretty well but it just reminded the limitations of this spec while it can do insane dps/burst it lacks so much in every other aspect of the game, despite that you played it as it should be played, going into fights and killing your target as fast as possible.

I guess it's pretty much confirmed that you can play Deadeye in high lvl pvp such as ATs or other tournaments, and not only as a pug stomper in ranked.

Anyways I really enjoyed the gameplay, I just wish they would revert the deadeye rework I liked deadeye before they made it more annoying with the splendid idea of stealth on dodge and 0 cd 0 initiative DJ lol.