DeceiverX.8361

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > The thing is, you can buff numbers in PvE and nobody cares. The mobs won't get upset and claim cheese or foul play, that your build is OP or FoTM, or whatever. D/D is a single-target kit, though. The point is tempo-driven, repeatable, quick bursts of damage to a single target. > > You can buff numbers all you want in the competitive modes but it'll be either OP or still trash because DB and the lack of mobility D/D has is the reason the kit is trash and always has been. Design matters more in competitive, and the reason why D/D is bad in competitive is solely because its design is bad. > > I'll say MH Dagger is a Single target tool, Dagger/Dagger doesn't have to be. > Offhand Dagger 4 does "cleave" through its bounces, that's hardly strictly single target design no? > > D/P drives Dagger into a more single target focused kit, with a single target gap closer, pistol 4 single target disrupt, and pistol 5 is kinda a general use utility which is useful anywhere. > > Why not move D/D into the direction of brawling, and of close quarters combat, over strictly single target design which D/P already offers. > > I know what D/D users want : yu guys just want a reliable gap closer so yu can pull off CnD Backstabs easier, but wanna do so without using a slot for Inf Signet or gap closing with Heartseeker. (which, surprise surprise, all COST SOMETHING) > > Considering the fact that Shadowshot can already do just as much damage as a Backstab in competitive these days, what's stopping people from just continuing with D/P then, since Shadowshot is just way more reliable, plus yu have consistent Stealth access with D/P 5 >2 > > Do yu guys really just wanna move D/D into the same direction as D/P? > I don't think it's really healthy for Thief kit to have multiple forms of the same sort of deal, already ignoring the fact a good amount of thief skills are rarely used at all because of their Ini system just letting them use whatever they want as much as they want depending on the situation. > > > > I'm gonna pull the Uno reverse card here. If you want a melee cleave weapon with evasion, why not just play S/P which literally does everything and more on PW? If the skill deals meaningful damage, why make it a copy of S/P which just spams 3 for cleave, anyways? If you need the evasion and rotate other skills for damage, why even ask to rework DB with its current evade? See how the logic works here? What your proposal does is bring nothing new to the thief stylistically or in terms of gameplay patterns. D/D sucks in the PvP modes because it has no mobility or ability to sustain itself well in extended melee-engages. I don't think the latter is possible without making the kit too difficult to kill when combined with something like Daredevil and otherwise not reworking all eight dagger skills and possibly other kits entirely to jive with them, all from the ground up. It makes more sense to just rework DB into something functionally usable in the competitive modes and then tweak PvE numbers. The mobility doesn't need to be as good as Shadow Shot, and it shouldn't be spammed, either, since Shadow Shot is already overloaded and deserves a damage nerf so the rest of MH dagger can be buffed. I've literally asked for that since 2012 because it chokes MH dagger out of being buffed viably. D/D would get more out of a skill acting something like Dash to both create and close space rather than just massive hard engage. I also feel like you didn't even read my initial response and ancient suggestion, because its design forces it to not be spammable and actively punishes misuse. D/D offers a unique approach to gameplay that focuses on engage committal by keeping you and your enemy fairly close. D/P is all about total resets, S/D about temporary physical spacing and re-engaging with more resources, and P/D is about kiting. The hybrid skills should reflect the combined kits they have. Look at what D/D is being compared to: D/P: Hard-**engage** and damage causing the enemy's next hit to miss. S/D: **Dodge that can't be chained** granting damage and boon denial on its second half **which can't be spammed**. P/D: Slipperiness and high-tier kiting/disengage out of melee range with **condition damage which can't be spammed/chained without other skills**. My proposal: Soft-engage or Soft-disengage with a lower-duration dodge that provides condition damage which can't be spammed unless chained with other skills. All of the skills have aspects of each other and it completes the trifecta while letting D/D actually work cohesively with the rest of the skills that are otherwise fairly disjointed in the kit. Hell, they could bump the cost to 4 at 600 range and it's still a really good skill. Slightly better per initiative in flat land speed, but slightly slower than IArrow without the vertical movement bonuses. As an aside, a significant part that makes D/D so weak is that DB reveals you if your opponent bombs their feet after CnD. The damage component can't be at the beginning of the cast or be AoE because in a multi-target environment the only answer you have is to CnD and get out. Thus, single-target damage at the end of the evade.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > Why? We have S/P for cleave. > > Sacrificing a kit to be absolutely worthless in the competitive modes is bad design. If thief needs more cleave options, buff S/x's AA for PvE and take the right tool for the job instead of suggesting gutting something else to fill a niche purpose. > > I wouldn't consider an AoE cleave with an evade baked into it "worthless for competitive modes" > That's like everything yu can ask for to use for team fighting downed cleaves, and since it hits 5, yu could cleave really nicely. > > And yur treating this topic as though competitive is all that matters. > > But yea, would be nice of Sword was buffed for PvE. > And what do yu mean gutting? > Yur telling me people use Death Blossom seriously on a Power build? I'm saying you'd be sinking any hope for D/D to actually be any good for competitive. Your logic of balancing for PvE is no different than mine to balance for PvP. The thing is, you can buff numbers in PvE and nobody cares. The mobs won't get upset and claim cheese or foul play, that your build is OP or FoTM, or whatever. D/D is a single-target kit, though. The point is tempo-driven, repeatable, quick bursts of damage to a single target. You can buff numbers all you want in the competitive modes but it'll be either OP or still trash because DB and the lack of mobility D/D has is the reason the kit is trash and always has been. Design matters more in competitive, and the reason why D/D is bad in competitive is solely because its design is bad. Tweak numbers for PvE, tweak functionality for sPvP/WvW.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > Needs a rework. Fixed-distance dash evade 600-900 units, bleeds single-target in larger stacks at the end of the movement so that it won't reveal if used as defense while in stealth (like it currently does which actively works against power D/D). Can't be spammed this way for damage since you'll always be moving away and then dealing the damage, and encourages better spacing and non-spam by condi builds, while providing better mobility and fixes a lot of problems with escapees and disengage potential with power builds, and gets synergy with CnD for the condi variant. > > > Drop the cost to 3 due to slightly higher dependence on CnD for optimized damage and lack of spammable PbAoE damage, since it no longer becomes a viable damage source like FS nor a true disengage like IS/IR on S/D, and this can keep condi playing in the same style as power by having it use CnD to reposition/gain distance, and strike again for the fixed-distance strike. > > > With this, condi D/D now requires more skill and active initiative management, and now you've got a consistent performer across power/condi and D/D actually has some synergy and value across its skills for both builds. Power gets buffed in mobility and sustain which it desperately needs. > > > Been saying this for years. ANet won't do it because it was a fan-loved GW1 skill that was super strong. Sad truth. > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1251478#Comment_1251478 > > I used to make that suggestion too : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1307171#Comment_1307171 > Now I'm more like, "Nah, just give D/D some good cleave, it doesn't have to be good in competitive nor compete with D/P in usage" > > I would value D/D having better cleave for PvE usage, since even in PvE it's used probably only on like, 2 raid builds or open world. > > Why? We have S/P for cleave. Sacrificing a kit to be absolutely worthless in the competitive modes is bad design. If thief needs more cleave options, buff S/x's AA for PvE and take the right tool for the job instead of suggesting gutting something else to fill a niche purpose.

> @"bigo.9037" said: > soo when a spellbreaker uses bullscharge followed by hundred blades that can deal a super high amount of dmg in a short time as well, with bullscharge being an evade which makes it very safe to pull off. > > you can’t just say hurrdur look at my dmg output on my friend who is standing still so i can test my dmg and expect decent players to take you seriously. there are plenty of builds that can be extremely oppressive as a +1 build, daredevil or core thief comes to mind. this is the ONLY WAY you can actually pull off those crazy numbers. > > as someone who does not use OWP, I don’t find it very strong. with how much stab and stunbreakers are out there, as well as general dmg denial, using both sicem utility AND your elite on a burst that you don’t know for 100% will land is just not a good idea. > > once again, if you’re getting farmed by 1 soulbeast, git gud, if there’s more than 1, you’re just out of position and should stop running around alone. > > if neither is happening to you, stop thinking AB Golem or my friend is standing afk here so i can test my dmg on a full burst while popping 1-2 utilities and my elite means ANYTHING. If a warrior uses bull's charge and HB all you have to do is stunbreak and walk forward and it does no damage lol. You don't even have to dodge. Also, RF hits for more damage with the vuln stacking (except for the final hit of HB, but if you take that you're either bad or running a bad build) with a shorter channel, is cast from 1500 units, and can be cast while moving. So yeah, not sure why you're comparing RF to HB and citing HB as OP when RF is literally stronger lol. That or you just don't know what the skills do with their respective splits cross-format and shouldn't be talking about balance.

> @"Yasai.3549" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > I'd be cool with that if there were a secondary channeled mode of it that turned it into a faster roll on the ground for about 900 distance but take out damage or something. That kit is a pain to make work, there's always some big compromise in traits or utility that just doesn't warrant it over other kits and builds. > > Honestly? > The **problem people have** with Dagger/Dagger isn't mobility at all, which I've also considered so in the past. > > It's the inability to access Stealth without hitting a target. > > D/P is just all the wonderful things : can Access Stealth anywhere and has a 900 range gap closer, and the gap closer does do some respectable damage. > > I don't really wish to see D/D become something to "compete with D/P" in the same aspects, but I rather D/D be more supportive of a Melee fighter style, with Cleaves etc. > It's not like they have no mobility, people have been using Heartseeker spam to move around for awhile now. > And besides, no one is stopping Thief from using Shadowstep Signet, which thieves have been using back in the old days to gap close from 2000 range away. > > Thieves could definitely use a good cleave for pve and wvw anyway. > > Here's another fun idea though, which I know all Thieves will reject with their life : > This new cleave skill I've proposed replaces Heartseeker as Dagger 2, and Heartseeker becomes Dagger/Dagger 3 > Goodbye D/P > > #;9 > > 6k hours on power D/D in WvW here. Since 2012, only to quit for Reaper. No, the problem is pretty much mobility and nothing but. They have no ability to rework any other skill, since they can't rework HS for D/P or give DDagger mobility due to it being OP with P/D Shadow Strike. You could literally make DB deal no damage, provide no condition damage, no cleave, and no evade, and just make the skill a copy of the teleport on Shadow Shot and the kit would be miles more capable than any suggestion of giving it damage and evasion. The current game-state mandates all melee-only kits have strong mobility, and D/D has among the weakest mobility options in the game and no innate defense or means of engaging against ranged attackers, strong disengage, combo AoE damage, or pb/AoE CC. The kit also generally just has low damage across the board and worse spike than most other classes' stronger builds. The counter to D/D is just to wait for the steal+CnD or dodge the precast CnD+Steal and nuke your feet and it just dies. If it can't get CnD off, it has no damage and can't mitigate targeting, if it can't get revealed, it has no defense in SA to keep itself mitigating incoming hits. Everything hinges on CnD landing and your opponent doing nothing but standing in place not readying their counterburst or dodging the backstab. Here's your fix: > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > Needs a rework. Fixed-distance dash evade 600-900 units, bleeds single-target in larger stacks at the end of the movement so that it won't reveal if used as defense while in stealth (like it currently does which actively works against power D/D). Can't be spammed this way for damage since you'll always be moving away and then dealing the damage, and encourages better spacing and non-spam by condi builds, while providing better mobility and fixes a lot of problems with escapees and disengage potential with power builds, and gets synergy with CnD for the condi variant. > Drop the cost to 3 due to slightly higher dependence on CnD for optimized damage and lack of spammable PbAoE damage, since it no longer becomes a viable damage source like FS nor a true disengage like IS/IR on S/D, and this can keep condi playing in the same style as power by having it use CnD to reposition/gain distance, and strike again for the fixed-distance strike. > With this, condi D/D now requires more skill and active initiative management, and now you've got a consistent performer across power/condi and D/D actually has some synergy and value across its skills for both builds. Power gets buffed in mobility and sustain which it desperately needs. > Been saying this for years. ANet won't do it because it was a fan-loved GW1 skill that was super strong. Sad truth. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1251478#Comment_1251478

Maybe it's not downed state that's inherently the problem but the absolutely stupid amount of safe sustain that lets people so easily and safely res downed players, and that the profession design and balance, especially since slowing the gameplay down, only rewards sitting around sustaining rather than making aggressive plays and opting for high-burst/high-damage builds. Sorry, the problem is risk/reward being thrown way off with expansion content. Downed state removal just buffs these sustain builds even more, since the only people that actually end up dropping regardless are the people opting for sub-optimal DPS specs playing aggressively.

> @"PeerlessArch.6547" said: > Some interesting ideas. > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > I'd also like to mention CnD's damage is just strictly lower than backstab's. If they're hitting 11k and CnD, and 9k backstab, they're front-stabbing you and would be hitting otherwise for 20k. > > > > I can guarantee you that no thief is hitting you for 20k without a literally perfect scenario with its current numbers. 20k+ was already fairly hard to pull off before the Feb. patch and absolutely required assassin's signet, which since Feb. such a build has had its damage nerfed by quite literally 50% with everything factored in. > > That's what I thought too, but --argh, I wish i took a screenshot of it. I was off to the side of our zerg waiting for a wall to come down, no condis on me and no boons either (so its not like i was suddenly stripped by something else and got nailed) -- but still like you said, if CnD is lower than backstab, how was it still that high. I get there are buffs when near owned keep or whatever, but 11k is quite high. > > I might deliberatly find one of those two thieves next time we're matched and just stand there and record them killing me lol. > > Are there any known instances of getting hit with the same skill simultaneously and it showing up as one hit in combat log? I've personally never seen two separate skills show up as one in combat log. Even with quickness, the cast time between both is slow enough where it's definitely unlikely it wouldn't be able to keep up. CnD coefficient is 1.25 and backstab is 1.8 - stab should always be hitting about 50% harder unless things like boons and other effects expired by the time the backstab rolled around between the two hits. The most likely possibility is the person was getting buffed by various damage bonuses from nearby other players such as Assassin's Presence, banners, etc. and hit you with Steal+CnD in the last fractions of a second before they expired from leaving the effect radii, since the hit will pretty much be instant with a precast. Otherwise there really shouldn't be a case where CnD does nearly as much or more damage than backstab if it was a hit from behind, and definitely not a case where a lone thief can hit for 10k CnD + 20k backstab. It being in a zerg combat environment is likely to get a ton of extra damage from the effects of nearby players. The thief absolutely does not have the ability to hit this hard solo, however, and even then, it'd still be in an optimal or nearly-optimal group environment to buff its damage this highly.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > what you say is true but honestly the most important thing to fix is the lag. amazon servers are complete garbage. since they won't or can't fix this the mode is doomed. a lot of players seem to be unaffected by lag but i think enough players are and it is a huge thing holding wvw back. they might be able to address lag by reworking aoe on all skills but thats a big fix and i doubt anet is that interested in something like that. It's largely due to instant AoE damage, AoE boon application, and rapid AoE and condition application. All these timers at once are what cause server issues more than anything. There was an obscure dev post about it a while ago basically saying "sorry, there's really not much we can do except find ways to reduce these from happening (AKA reduce number of players)." Yet again, the issue points to the systems team. Unfortunately the expansions have been really bad at powercreeping the latter two. For FPS Lag, which is worse than ever, I point to the use of excess particle effects on character models, mounts, and minis. ANet used to have a pretty rustic fantasy look in its earlier days and has basically just put the pedal to the floor on visual clutter these days. I wish we had a non-standard model with no visual effects option. I don't think this is ever going to get fixed, sadly. Unless they totally overhauled their tech infrastructure, which is a tremendously expensive project for a game that's going to be entering maintenance mode soon, I expect it to continuously get worse unless major tech breakthroughs happen. But yeah, the way the new stuff is designed, and what a lot of WvW/sPvP players predicted would happen with the introduction of dedicated role strengths across professions and the massive buffing of sustain builds, is that build diversity would be obliterated and the creativity behind large-scale combat be limited to just some hours/days after our rare balance notes should anything significant at all change. Gone are the days of dedicated periphery groups when everything, even DPS, just has long-range CC/pulls and more sustain than can be bursted down by individual players.

I'd also like to mention CnD's damage is just strictly lower than backstab's. If they're hitting 11k and CnD, and 9k backstab, they're front-stabbing you and would be hitting otherwise for 20k. I can guarantee you that no thief is hitting you for 20k without a literally perfect scenario with its current numbers. 20k+ was already fairly hard to pull off before the Feb. patch and absolutely required assassin's signet, which since Feb. such a build has had its damage nerfed by quite literally 50% with everything factored in.

> @"God.2708" said: > > @"Swagger.1459" said: > > So you bring up a bunch of comments about him speaking about things dealing lots of damage. > > His argument is that ranger deals lots of damage, very safely. > > Perhaps do some more post digging figure out how to handle that other 50% of his argument? He even lists cons about how easily his necro build dies to certain things. > > Also as an aside, TIL Shadowshot did not get its damage reduced in the feb balance pass. A 1.3 damage modifier on no CD blind+blink is honestly crazy given what most skills do. > It's the only thing really carrying thief rn for its power builds. But yeah the skill has been busted for a long time (see: my complaints since 2013) and one of the major reasons why D/P is actually any good at all. I can confidently say if they swapped it with Death Blossom D/P would be considered substantially weaker in raw combat than D/D, even when factoring in its access to OOC and stacked stealth.

> @"Zacchary.6183" said: > Unpopular opinion: I'm glad d/p is dead, even if its by accident. No, D/P dominates with Dash, and just generally dominates. Bound builds aren't even the top-tier ones.

Probably because they're berserker stats and not marauder, and most roaming builds in the current meta are sustain/offtank. If you mostly play glass, you'll take a lot more damage. They probably have assassin's signet active and use the Signet of Shadows mass vuln for the initial hit, and they likely run DA/CS/Tr or DrD with no dodge traited (since Bounding Dodge can't be used with D/D). Presence of Keep + food + AS offers a lot of power damage, and as mentioned, both the target's and your current health plays a major part in the thief's access to damage modifiers. Either way, 11k is very far from the norm, especially on CnD. Those are like pre-assassin's signet nerf/february patch numbers.

> @"Cuks.8241" said: > You shouldn't be eating full rapid fire. It's a 2.5 sec cast time, we are talking seconds here. You are dying a lot in any pvp game if your response time is measured in seconds. > They are very potent when they jump you unaware, already in combat and without CDs but that is then not a 1v1 situation. That same ranger dies to anything if the situation is turned. That's why people are dying lol. You only get 1.5s of dodges. RoA+RF at 2k/hit base and 3k RoA procs double dodged is 4 hits + 2 RoA procs. This is 14k damage even with perfect reaction time lol. It's actually easier to not die to when it gets QZ'ed and rangers who use it are outplaying themselves which seems to be a mentality I find here frequently...

> @"Lan Deathrider.5910" said: > > @"RangerThings.9810" said: > > I am a diehard Core Ranger. I solo roam 95% of the time -- joining in the odd keep take/defense when it presents itself. I haven't had a problem with Sic Em SBs since the nerfs while roaming, but occasionally 1-shotted from a tower while fighting someone else. Now I understand. > > > > I tried Sic Em Soulbeast again this morning. I one shotted anyone I got the drop on. And I was 3 shotted by anyone I didn't :sweat_smile: > > > > This is essentially what I thought of the build coming in, that it was garbage for roaming, but great for sniping. I'll now slot Sic Em SB as my zerg build and take out anyone straying from their zerg... pew pew PEW. > > And there it is. Sic'em SlB snipes anything it gets the drop on. Screw up, and you might die just like everybody else. But given the range on LB and proper awareness you can get the drop on most people even while roaming. So D/D signet thief of old, except with less risk, miles easier to play for efficacy, and way more viability across the board. Which is a build that also got gutted for dealing too much damage, and lost most of its modifiers despite having literally zero condition cleanses, no sustain, no protection, and no stunbreak or stability (yes, literally play perfectly or die), objectively lower mobility than GS on ranger, and depended entirely on landing a single hit (negated by aegis or weakness) and otherwise having no way to survive after just one attack on one target. It's not about damage but reliability of damage and how friendly the class is at not dying. As I mentioned in a different thread about SB, I have no issue with it having damage, but currently, RF+RoA does over 10k damage even when double-dodged. No skill in the game otherwise offers that much reliable damage, let along at range.

The issue with soulbeast is more that it's extremely easy to be extremely effective with and with almost zero risk. Boonbeast is more OP, but the glassier variants are super oppressive for how easy they are to play. You compare something like an unskilled thief to an unskilled soulbeast, and the former is often a free bag that dies to a stiff breeze whereas the latter poses a threat to kill you based on some circumstantial conditions of the fight and how kitted out your build is to directly dealing with them.

> @"God.2708" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"God.2708" said: > > > > @"solemn.9608" said: > > > > +1 to OP > > > > Most of them won't understand. > > > > > > > > They think anything unconventional is not viable because nobody dares to think outside the box anymore in this game. Same with the meta. Plenty of options for interesting and hard to defeat guild comps but people just default to the ole firebrand scourge scourge plus whatever 'meta'. > > > > > > > > Don't expect them to understand > > > > They won't > > > > It is entirely possible to textmand effectively. I have done it myself and seen others. Make good tactical decisions, have good movement skills, play heal scrapper or something that can hard-carry pugs through raw healing power and type quickly. Really not that hard. But that goes against the norm so everyone will just attack you for challenging their beliefs. > > > > > > I mean, basically every group I see that is closed and invisible does so because if they open up all challenge goes out the window. Competitive advantage comes from a variety of sources in WvW, and if a group is actively deciding against increasing their numbers it's because they're either confident in other things (like comms and unique party synergy), or they're expecting similar sized opponents and don't want to just W-key them. > > Except they still demand everyone to get on discord and join the squad for anything less than 50 man so your theory is a failure. > > > > So, it's possible you witness that on your server, but I've never seen a tag that is both closed AND invisible demand people to get in comms so they can join squad. > > Closed squads, sure, but not invisible ones. And closed + invisible was what the original post was about. There are different arguments to be made about tags that are closed except to those in discord, but it is also fairly easy to follow them on your own with your own party if that is your interest so it feels like a silly rabbit hole to dive down. The point of running closed was to prevent people from joining on tag to prevent accidental boon and effects sharing to unintended targets, which was changed in a later patch to allow parties within squads. It's now mostly just used as an incentive to join discord. The point in running invis is to stop people from following and rallying the opposition when the numbers are too close. If they locked F2p accounts out of WvW to stop the ridiculous amounts of spying, it'd remove most of the incentive to run invis for positioning. If ANet removed rallying from other players' deaths, almost nobody would run invis for combat reasons. Note this is different from not having downed state.

> @"hunkamania.7561" said: > @"Shroud.2307" said: > > I find it funny that you claim any server could possibly have more Longbow Rangers than Mag. The server is 99.9% pugs, it's amazing we manage to pull the kind of KDR we do every single week despite always being a disorganized mess with zergs comprised of 50% Rangers. > > > > Mag is a dumpster fire of trolls and has-beens, but I never had a fraction of the fun on any other server. I'll take being locked in T4 with Mag over PPTing gates on SOS any day, thanks. > > I'm a Maguuma native and can tell you the only reason their KDR is high is that they camp an op T3 SMC all day and farm noob pugs on ebg. The mediocre guilds on the server also nuthug to ensure they win fights vs smaller groups or blob it up with a bunch of greens surrounding them. KDR does not tell the whole story. It's the reason my havoc guild and I would log out for the week when we got matched a long time ago. There's like, two, actually good guilds/groups on that server (shoutout to HUNT giving us some difficulty despite the fact I know you MFers play some cheeky builds), and most of their pugs are just hilariously bad. Notice how the server fell off a cliff after the first wave of hacking bans. Yeah. We ran 5 deep, and BL's were either just PvE zones or we'd just get ganked by "roamers" running 10-15 deep just playing the FotM OP spec. Glass longbow soulbeast on high ground with pocket heals/support seems to be the current favorite of the "RF go brrrrrr" audience. I don't even mind if people are running and dying with builds that suck; that's me half the time. But they're just so aggressively tryhard while absolutely insisting they're not that it's comedic in the sad sense that people there actually think they're decent. People hate the matchup not because Mag is good so much as Mag doesn't provide any meaningful content whatsoever. Either they cower when numbers show up or they just spam emotes after some poor sap gets exploded in a 5v1. I feel like Mag's the same kind of population of 13-year-old CoD players who say they copulate our moms and could beat us in a real fight. It's absurd, and the novelty is funny as a meme, but being proud of that is honestly super cringe and really makes the game less fun for everyone.

> @"Loosmaster.8263" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > Can't break into SMC inner without 'em. Well I guess you can. > > Building a treb on the gate work just fine. > > > > I've actually watched a group use a Ballista. I've personally done this for nothing but laughs hoping to pull a fight P.S. Imgur is down. 

UNOwen is actually right here, and people are shitting on the OP for all the wrong reasons. It operates how the game originally handled stacking conditions a la bleeding before they added the simplified conditions UI checkbox, which was made into a default option. Each tick of each stack is a separate number, and you can uncheck the UI option to see this visually. What you see as a DoT single number with the simplified conditions UI option isn't what the game registers as a unique source of damage. It works as it *should* because every tick of every stack is treated as a new source. This is also why WvW lags with condition spikes. There's SO MUCH PROCESSING going on with all those numbers. Release game for bleeding for example had each application of bleed apply a new number for every tick for every new stack. On bleed builds with rapid re-application like S/S war (flurry), D/D thief (caltrops + DB), and shortbow ranger (back/side AA+Entangle+Sharpening Stone+Barbed Precision), you'd see literally a constant stream of numbers pouring out of a given target every fraction of a second after when it was applied, which was deemed too cluttered in engagements with multiple targets (Hard to define who's taking the damage when you have 30+ numbers per second in a clump on-screen), so they simplified it all visually but not on the backend. Edit: for clarity, because apparently nobody understand how conditions actually work, you can see all the "Unsimplified ticks" from the original UI approach in this video here:

Removing the outnumbered cap basically just means single target damage is even worse than it already is, and that large-versus-medium groups have an even worse time than they currently do because anything over 5/10 takes advantage of target caps. Sorry, small group did well with mobility and the ability to burst people down and coordindate bursts and coordinated sustain. An overexcess of CC/pulls, mounts and damage nerfs/massive AoE group sustain buffs like FB and Scourge are more responsible for the failure of promotion of small-scale play than the target cap, and nothing will change unless those are addressed.

> @"GameTheory.8059" said: > Commanders do not owe you guys anything, guilds do not owe you anything. This is a game and people will play it in a way they want to (taking your attitude and applying it to the other side). > > I recently came back to the game and I am overwhelmed by the sense of entitlement and attitude of some players. > > You want me to create content for you? Okay, I will pin up and try my best. You want me to beat a map queue that has 40 in comms? You want me to paper one of the maps during prime time? Well, I will ask you to be more team oriented. > > > > Started happening a lot more when they introduced GoB. I wonder why. You see it already; they're saying that the other modes are neglected in favor of WvW in other subsections. Something which if we are to be objective about, is just strictly untrue for the history of the game.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > DC is fixable by just adding short-duration chill to RS AA chain. Like half a second each max or like 1/4 + 1/2 + 3/4 on the chain. > > This would be way to strong. > > If anything ANet need to stop attaching anything to the shroud AA. Do you even realize how hard players would complain in sPvP/WvW thanks to this suggestion? Shortly after HoT release ANet nerfed hard every chill source of the necromancer due to sPvP/WvW complain about chill uptime and there you basically suggest "perma chill" on a condition damage build with a rotation that can be sumed up as: F1 + AA... Can we avoid suggesting something like that? Why bother with the chill and not just add bleed on the AA? (at least the bleed duration could be balanced this way.) Reasonable concern (why I said half a second max each, even 1/4s each works fine), and maybe fixed via only on Life Reap or something, as my intention is to not have it be truly permanent chill uptime. Though if memory serves, the chill duration was nerfed on necro before they made the changes to convert chill to bleed because the chill DoT itself was dealing too much damage over too long a time more than it just being chill itself. Correct me if I'm wrong on the dates if you want though. For the record, DChill would need its bleed duration reduced as a consequence of being so easily-accessed. I probably should have specified that as it'd majorly affected balance lol. The way I see it is that since Chill and other movement-impending conditions don't impact mobility skills, this doesn't make the reaper any more or less dangerous in melee than it already is on its power build nor make it that much less easier to kite since you can just gap-open -> cleanse+dodge and force shroud out or kite the reaper with superspeed, cripple it, chill it, CC it, etc. Power generally just hard wins when keeping a foe stuck in melee, and even a 100% chill duration build will achieve only mediocre DPS considering it should be investing into bleed duration on sigils/runes/food. Reaper's easy to kite, especially so without RO to reset DCharge while in combat, so DChill then works with power builds to prevent escapes/trade cooldowns while offering low DPS, and enables condi builds by acting as a bleed source directed towards sustained combat that can possibly replace Dhuumfire and let condi reaper get some much-needed damage otherwise, since DF + RO is definitively the best build right now for condi DPS reaper. Basically it just acts as either a melee control trait to keep the reaper more consistently in melee per its original design, or a condi DPS one with some melee control. The 11111 damage rotation argument isn't really valid when currently, the RShroud AA is its best DPS in the PvP modes and already provides the best utility on skills 2, 3, and 5 via the CDR per AA. Soul Spiral after ES on such a condi build is actually a better rotation for burst with AA to follow up, which is pretty normal for **most** condi builds, anyways, ranging from d/d and shortbow ranger to P/D thief to longbow and S/S warrior to scepter mesmer to core necromancer. Really, really, nothing game-changing here. Like you can make a sticky water ele and run permachill if you want as some kind of support variant to hit enemy cooldowns hard, but the fact is Chill is only really a threat while people stick in situations where it gets re-applied, which should rightfully be reaper's melee comfort zone, and we're continuously seeing a growing number of movement skills, alacrity, and chill removal across a multitude of professions. The enemy CDR concern is valid, but it's really hard to make DC a viable trait without making the skill be balanced entirely on the RS5->4 combo or otherwise reworking pretty much all of necro's chill access to make this trait play fairly and actually be worth taking.

> @"Swagger.1459" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > Gotta be objective here and recognize that this combo just did 17k damage in only 60% of its strikes, with one button (two for OWP) in just over a second at 1500+ range. Even a Deadeye running Assassin's Signet and three offensive trait lines with full glass gear, full malice, and into full light armor can't hit that hard with kneeling DJ. > > > > Even using double dodge immediately and taking .75s of hits, this still deals 10k damage and ignores stealth as people scream to be some sort of ultimate defense here. > > > > Without OWP in the above example above (although it could have been dodged earlier), damage drops to 10k which is at least somewhat manageable (although this assumes there's no follow-up pressure and the victim can escape and/or catch up) despite the fact a third of the professions only have 11k base health. > > > > I don't have a problem with ranger dealing damage, but this hits harder than most skills in the game even when fully evaded. > > That should say something. > > > > Edits: Minor math and grammar. > > Ok, not like other professions aren’t capable of doing similar damage... > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Shot > > “Fire an unblockable shot at your foe, which blinds them, and then shadowstep to them for a dagger strike.” > > Damage: 481 (1.3125)? > Blindness (5s): Next outgoing attack misses. > Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile > Range: 900 > Unblockable > Costs 5 Initiative in wvw and spvp... > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/104151/thief-is-totally-broken-now > > “15k shadowshot 0_0” > > “I've dealt 8-9k shadow shots pretty happily before the feb patch, just trying to think how you would get 15k.” > > “I don't have a single piece of zerk on my Thief so I have 19k health, and I don't use Assassin's Signet and look at these crits.” > > “I've been playing Thief regularly for a few days now and it's not uncommon for me to be seeing 10 - 12k Heartseekers and 8 - 10k Shadow Shots.” > > ...So given that there are profession builds that can do a lot of damage, and the “fact a third of the professions only have 11k base health”, do you think we need another round of 30% damage nerfs across all professions? Just wondering... You don't have to copy and paste what you've already said in other posts. I don't think you understand the scope of changes to the thief over the past few months/years such that these numbers are no longer possible, and having done out the math, the numbers in the "15k shadow shot" were on a target literally not wearing pieces of armor or absolutely perfect circumstances which is in no way feasible to balance around. These numbers for RF are NORMAL. Hell, there's no denying SShot is overtuned. Actually, if you really want to go digging through the archives of the old forums, I've said SShot is overloaded/overpowered since 2012 much to the objection of other thieves, especially after they nerfed backstab the first time. So you'll find no disagreement because I call it how it is. But just because one profession has something busted doesn't justify another having something else also just as busted. And to be honest, Shadow Shot is way easier to dodge and punishes the thief way harder when the opponent does dodge than RF. Shadow Shot is also visible when used during stealth, fun fact. So if you anticipate getting ganked, you can dodge the damage. Such numbers are no longer possible and were in a very different game state when faster play was desired/intended. A friend of mine ran a Maul build back in like 2014 using the old SoTH which regularly used to hit for 40k. Does this make pre-buff Maul OP? No. It was the interaction which was, and why the traits got nerfed. OWP breaks RF, mostly because RF is already an insanely strong skill on the precipice of already being considered too good for how low-risk and easy to play longbow ranger is. And if you say otherwise... I switch off my thief and reaper, two classes of which I've got some of the best understanding in the game on (coach on both classes for Diamond sPvP and WvW dueling) and I **still** switch to ranger when I want reliable combat dominance without much effort. And I'm self-admittedly not even very good at ranger unlike Emi and some of the other top-tier roaming rangers that can absolutely thrash like 99.99% of the playerbase. Longbow Soulbeast does too much damage for too little risk and really without any kind of skill expression at all. It's a similar problem as thief has with Daredevil; it's too easy to just run away from a lost fight and try again, where the rest of the class suffers from being chained down by the potential of one set. Ranger played outside of longbow takes significant risks and good game knowledge to play well (though shortbow can also be pretty braindead since the changes to Barbed Precision pushing more builds to pure tank condi rather than squishier DPS), and is why builds like D/D SB or pure GS don't function. It's also why they can't buff stuff like Barrage or the rest of longbow to actually be a better kit at higher skill levels or ZvZ, because it'd just be busted OP if they made more of its attacks unblockable or deal better AOE pressure or carry more mobility or whatever.

Gotta be objective here and recognize that this combo just did 17k damage in only 60% of its strikes, with one button (two for OWP) in just over a second at 1500+ range. Even a Deadeye running Assassin's Signet and three offensive trait lines with full glass gear, full malice, and into full light armor can't hit that hard with kneeling DJ. Even using double dodge immediately and taking .75s of hits, this still deals 10k damage and ignores stealth as people scream to be some sort of ultimate defense here. Without OWP in the above example above (although it could have been dodged earlier), damage drops to 10k which is at least somewhat manageable (although this assumes there's no follow-up pressure and the victim can escape and/or catch up) despite the fact a third of the professions only have 11k base health. I don't have a problem with ranger dealing damage, but this hits harder than most skills in the game even when fully evaded. That should say something. Edits: Minor math and grammar.

Wait wait wait hold on. The guy who played ranger and used to complain about thief being OP and then switched to Deadeye because it was supposedly OP is now complaining ranger is OP lol. That should be some perspective **everyone** should enjoy.