Bast.7253

I never wanted them but I got the guild one on my guardian and like it. I would just like it if there were more added as in-game items. Maybe even a build-a-cape menu for guilds to create their own cape style similar to how they create their logo. I.e. Logo with a short/long cape. Neat/tattered.

With this episode we had the reveal, though I think it was already suspected by people observant of the icons, that the fallen/abberant/(whatever the other one is) are variants of Jormag's power using the corrupted spirits of the wild.

Yet, Braham in a heated debate managed to seemingly free them from the corruption and use their power?

It was also inferred at one point that the spirits are some infinite spring of power?

But we still haven't learned exactly where the spirits came from, nor entirely what they're capable of.

We haven't had anymore details on the true connection between Kodan and Norn.

We haven't seen any Jotun or abandoned Jotun civilizations. We have this bow capable of damaging Jormag because of an ancient Jotun scroll commented on during one of Braham's conversations with the spirits, but why?

I hope we get to explore some of this moving forward and it isn't just centered around Braham with a quick transition to some Charr civil war. I know a lot of people were wanting us to explore this region to learn more about some of the more mysterious parts of the lore, but so far it doesn't seem like we're going to be getting too much detail about any of that.

So, northwest of Eye of the North then? I was wondering too and it seems like that giant watery area is where Jormag is. With some of the teasers for this season at PAX I wondered if we wouldn't be kind of going around in a circle around the area unlocking different maps. Like, maybe next map we go south from where we are now and see some new open world sun's refuge style eye of the north. Then we go west to the woodland cascades. And we just kind of go around.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if we just go directly to Jormag's resting area next episode, confront Bangar, and then get some new baddy to chase. I've noticed a theme of stars and time throughout these episodes. The stars part could align nicely with Jotun being from this area, and I'm kind of sad we haven't seen any Jotun or ancient Jotun civilizations.

Was really hoping we would get lore on some of the more intricate and lesser known lore of this area. We get tidbits about the spirits of the wild but they're completely focused on Braham. No Jotun lore. No origin story or background on the elder dragons, which may be coming later when we have another chat with Jormag.

> @"NorthernRedStar.3054" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > While I didn't follow all of your points, I agree that it was a little anticlimactic and weird at the end. We keep having Jormag tell us she wants to talk...

> >

> > **_We get pulled into some weird realm and her a few whispers from her talking about Tyria and it just gets cut off by Bangar, who shows up for the sole purpose of having propaganda to fuel the legions into following him? And Jormag's just like, "Okay, we'll talk later. buhbye."_**

> >

> > And if the spirits were corrupted, all we had to do was have Braham talk to them? No forgotten rituals to free their minds? Just listen to them make fun of Braham for a few minutes and then have them bless him when they're done venting?

> >

> > If these spirits are free now, then are the masteries invalid next map? Because they were based on the stolen power of these spirits by Jormag. Now that the spirits are free and Jormag isn't siphoning their magic, I guess we won't be seeing anymore fallen/abberant/whatever mobs moving forward?

> >

> > And how are spirits this infinite font of magic that dragons can feast on? Care to go into detail about that or add some interesting sidelore? lol

> >

> > It just felt like the whole episode was this Braham-centric story focused on powering him up. Then, aside from Aurene and the scrying pool, ended rather awkwardly.

>

> This isn't what happened, though.

>

> That weird realm is the commander's psyche. The doppelganger wins = Jormag's whispers become too much to resist. Bangar explicitly stated he came down to kill the champion for propaganda reasons, AND to get rid of a detrimental force that's affecting his soldiers. Jormag's building up a weak point in our heads, which is our hate/dislike towards Bangar, in order to slowly coerce us.

>

> The spirits you're right about. Too little information. Too convenient.

I did forget him mentioning the voices taking his troops. I was really hoping to get more background on the spirits of the wild, but it feels like all of the lore is getting replaced with Braham, Braham, Braham. Wonder where we'll be going next anyway now that we're waiting on Bangar to make a move first.

I was wondering if it did, but this answers my question. Would be a nice ode to when she was young in Tarir.

How do you even get back there without replaying the story?

OH, and I think they probably will actually. They might do some current event or give us a different instance version stone once they release the visions or whatever. I get the feeling as others have mentioned that this will likely be our hub moving forward for the story and for possible entry into those visions as they get added.

I don't have eagle unlocked yet but the ox shrine doesn't have collision. I assume that's unintentional as the wolverine shrine does.

Also, do they just blow smoke? Or should there be some kind of mechanism to turn it off and on? Just asking because when you place the decoration the range of the particle effects seems like it's meant to be a lot larger. Not really a big deal either way.

While I didn't follow all of your points, I agree that it was a little anticlimactic and weird at the end. We keep having Jormag tell us she wants to talk...

We get pulled into some weird realm and her a few whispers from her talking about Tyria and it just gets cut off by Bangar, who shows up for the sole purpose of having propaganda to fuel the legions into following him? And Jormag's just like, "Okay, we'll talk later. buhbye."

And if the spirits were corrupted, all we had to do was have Braham talk to them? No forgotten rituals to free their minds? Just listen to them make fun of Braham for a few minutes and then have them bless him when they're done venting?

If these spirits are free now, then are the masteries invalid next map? Because they were based on the stolen power of these spirits by Jormag. Now that the spirits are free and Jormag isn't siphoning their magic, I guess we won't be seeing anymore fallen/abberant/whatever mobs moving forward?

And how are spirits this infinite font of magic that dragons can feast on? Care to go into detail about that or add some interesting sidelore? lol

It just felt like the whole episode was this Braham-centric story focused on powering him up. Then, aside from Aurene and the scrying pool, ended rather awkwardly.

I think people get upset over the story because it kind of seemed like by doing smaller maps or splitting them this season, we would be getting more story and compact gameplay in the parts of the map they create. But it kind of just feels like the exact same map and level design we had last season, but split in half. And somehow the story still seems shorter, once you take out the parts that force you to complete events and play open world.

But I definitely agree with the dialogue. I went to the eagle shrine earlier and right as some npc was blabbering my com went off and they were both so loud that I had to read chat to figure out what was being said.

Snowy zones aren't really my favorite, but this part of the map is anything but bland. It's actually quite beautiful. Lots of places to explore.

The bad thing about the map is just that, as I said in another thread, I feel like I'm being funneled into the same events over and over again. Events that aren't overly exciting.

Like, why are there three events dedicated to carrying fish to a table? lol.....

Masteries - agree. And they're just an absolute pain to try and get because it feels like some stacks fall off by the time I need to do something with more mobs of the type I need.

Ugly armor design - yeah, the raven set isn't really that exciting. But at least it isn't some asymmetrical spiky crystal gear again.

End-game - is dead. End-game is strike missions. And potentially some new fractal at some point but that's about it. Honestly I find the strike missions pretty challenging but I usually just go into public with no formal group comp and hope for the best - only to usually wipe. The rewards are just usually pretty lame, as they are everywhere else in the game. Dismal chance to get something cool and unique with about a 99% chance to get some blues and greens with some map currency.

I think this release is better than the last, but we got the same content last season and it wasn't split into two maps. It also feels a bit grindier this time around. Like their solution was just to put tiers upon tiers of mastery points for masteries that really aren't that fun to begin with, and extra tiers just for higher rewards from chests which just wind up being... map currency? Currency for the new weapon skins that you need to craft the previous tier of anyway? I know a lot of people were upset about that. I just never bothered to craft the other tier.

It also feels like the exp is wayyyyy slower. So now we have more masteries and less exp.

All in all, I don't hate this release, but it's definitely not thrilling. I've found myself repeating the same three events on the new map for like an hour just trying to level this raven portal mastery... it's taking forever. Go kill some random mobs around an ice pillar, then go collect fish, then go kill some champ. And the meta bugs seemingly most of the time.

I really want the exalted shoulders but I'm like 15 statuettes away and I just can't bring myself to spend money on gems knowing that it's just getting funneled into some other game.

To that note I would like to say that it is possible to go TOO FAR with systems. WoW at this point is just the systems-driven machine that pumps out the same generic content repeatedly because they have systems in place that make the game feel like a grind-infested conveyor belt.

And that's kind of what it feels like this game is becoming. A conveyor belt of festivals and story with a few random balance patches or q.o.l. improvements.

Long story short, he makes good points. Especially about fearing for the direction of the game. I'm not sure how I would feel right now if I were a "content creator" playing a game that feels like it's been abandoned.

Sure, we've had some quality of life improvements with the ui recently, and an upcoming balance patch, but aside from that it feels like it's only intention at this point is to be some quick story progression every few months, with festivals being added into make the game to spread out the story injections more. It feels like the same type of content we got last season, but it's now been drastically reduced. They clearly have another project going, which is fine, but it feels like the majority of resources and focus have been shifted yet again entirely to that project. If it fails like the others, what happens to the studio this time? I don't think it will just be layoffs. Not to mention reddit seemingly has a new post once a month about another developer leaving, which, yes, is normal and generally meant to inspire a particular impression of the game's direction, but still doesn't look promising.

One point he didn't mention though is **Systems abandonment**.

At this point, dungeons and guild systems have been abandoned. Guild missions could be updated to include current content, with more rewards added. Dungeons could have more cosmetic rewards added as incentive, even if they don't touch the way the dungeons are actually played.

Fractals and raids - both seemingly scrapped in favor of strike missions - which also seem to replace the bounty system that we had last season and during pof. If they consider strike missions as expansion level content, we're getting raids which were brought with Heart of Thorns, and bounties which were brought with Pof - but in a lesser form with 1-3 bosses. So, is it really expansion level if it's just a minimized and more resource friendly version of previous expansion features?

We have Guild Halls and things like Sun's Refuge, which get completely abandoned outside of Guild Halls getting maybe 1 or 2 purchasable decorations with new maps or festivals. And with new maps they just sell the decoration outright (which I support), but probably because of the amount of effort it takes adding a craftable decoration to the mess that is the scribe system that they abandoned and decided it wasn't worth investing in to redo.

We have masteries, like gliding skills or kodan's torch? - Obviously kodan's torch was a bit unnecessary to begin with and I'm not entirely sure it was a mastery, but it was still a system that they spent a lot of time developing only for it to fade away. Turrets in Kourna - something else that probably took quite a bit of time coding and testing - not that fun to begin with and scrapped anyway.

It feels like they design so many of these systems and spend so much time or resources developing them with no long-term thought in mind. They alter them occasionally and add them back in, like they did with phasing in Sun's Refuge and Guild halls to an extent, or bounties and raid/fractal bosses to Strike missions. But it ultimately feels like they're just creating more work for themselves, and often for very little payoff which leads to them being scrapped all together. I know they're a lot of work, and the people behind them are probably incredibly passionate about them so I know it's disappointing when they aren't well-received. But some of these systems/additions I look at as a player and just think, "Why did they bother?"

I guess that really boils down to other issues with their implementation though - such as with these new masteries being a pain to accumulate and not being THAT noticeable to gameplay. Or the turrets in Kourna being irrelevant outside of achievement points I guess? Or Sun's Refuge having little point outside of achievements and very short-term story integration. They may be cool, but they're just not relevant long-term or impactful in more than one specific part of one specific game-mode.

> @"Cuddy.6247" said:

> > @"Chichimec.9364" said:

> > > @"Chyanne Waters.8719" said:

> > > Save the statuettes for when it comes back and it will just take a bit longer is all

> >

> > Generally I like the rotation. It would be boring to just have the same stuff endlessly available. Still, it can be frustrating if there is a particular item you want and have to keep waiting for. It would be even more frustrating to just miss the item you wanted by a few days. I know, I've been there. Sadly, Chyanne Waters has given the only practical response in that situation. Though I have to say, when life gives me one of these little lessons in "patience", I do wish I could take life out behind the woodshed and kick it in the butt.

>

> ArenaNet uses this feeling specifically to make people buy something hastily. It's a super predatory marketing gimmick to leverage natural human behavior into buying stuff even if they can't afford it at the time. Banks be banking, yo.

I wonder if it's worth it though. Versus leaving it up and letting people buy it on their own time. Same as the black lion chest. Is suckering in those gamblers attempting to get an outfit more profitable than just selling the outfit? Seems like they're really narrowing down their opportunity to sell an item by relying solely on sense-impaired consumers. I mean, I have been one of those sense-impaired consumers, but I doubt my gambling made up for the people that would have probably bought the outfit if it were just a direct, honest sale.

> @"Rasimir.6239" said:

> Have you tried putting up your own lfg instead of looking for other people's? I regularly play all dungeons, with Arah being among the favorites, and I rarely have problems to fill a group.

I have in the past and didn't get any bites. The last time I didn't but it was late and I didn't feel like being that patient or expect anyone to. I might try that again next time though if it's earlier on in the night.

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Hannelore.8153" said:

> > I remember when development on the game was so active we were expecting a new race, now we'll be lucky if we get new specs.

>

> When was that since I cant remember ever thinking they would add a new race.

To be fair, they did make a few changes to the Tengu borders that had people wondering. But I think it was just a terrain alteration for the beetle races. Many people thought we would never get expansions because they seemed adamantly against that business model originally, yet we wound up getting 2. So people thinking there was a hope we would get a new race didn't seem that far off.

I certainly never ruled it out, even if I didn't think it was that likely. But yeah, now it feels like an expansion/elite specs are out. Now it seems new fractals/raids are out. Maps aren't even really standard for content patches moving forward. Seems like a lot of things are losing development very rapidly.

Among the multiple other reasons in terms of how the game has felt kind of dull the past few months, I wanted to do Arah the other night but there was nobody there.

I know it's been like that for awhile, but I used to see a group every now and then just wanting to do it for fun.

If they're not going to put in anymore fractals/raids/dungeons anymore it would be cool if they could add in some other incentives for doing the current ones. Whether it's cosmetic items like infusions you can buy with tokens, armor/weapon skins, tonics. For fractals maybe a way to obtain different color variations of Ascencion like gold, black, or white or something.

Maybe even some more welfare legendary armor involving dungeon tokens or something? I don't know. There has to be something they can do to breathe life into these gamemodes for the veterans that would increase interest and maybe even encourage a positive experience for new players that haven't experienced them before.

I guess the same could be said about a lot in this game though, like guild missions and systems. At least we still get a guild decoration every now and then though, and they added the guild capes recently so that's a small victory.

I've been logging in a little more frequently after taking about a month long break or more from the game. I played the last patch and was pretty heavily disappointed. Now I go back to try to do strike missions and it's like there's nobody there. It honestly feels like there's been a huge disinterest from players for awhile now. When I look at my guild roster I see so many people that haven't logged on in 1-6 months that would usually be on almost every day.

It's felt like the game never truly got its focus back and they're obviously still putting a lot of focus into side projects. The last trailer seemed a little more promising, so hopefully that's a good sign. But it's definitely sad feeling like the game is being slowly abandoned or isn't getting as much attention as it should. It honestly felt like it still had so much potential in store for it but it doesn't really feel like it will ever see it. Maybe by the end of this season it will feel different, but I don't have high hopes anymore. I think it's just going to rapidly start bleeding people who only log on for major patches, play for a week, and then the ones still stuck around will struggle to find as much enjoyment from the game leading them to the same decision.

As far as the social aspect, I literally just spent an hour in Lion's Arch the other day talking and listening to map chat. Didn't even play. So, people still socialize, I just don't think they're getting out and doing the content as much, at least from the new zone. Some of the older ones might still be pretty active like Grothmar and Dragonfall. It's also been bombarded with festivals lately, so the majority of people are in the festival areas.

The artists usually do an amazing job either way. The last release was kind of boring, but there are a few parts that were cool, like the giant ice cavern and the meta unlock part.

If we're sticking to just this season, I was hoping for a woodlands cascade area. I'd like to see an entire forest area like the area in Bitterfrost. Of course ideally I would love a creepy echovald as well, but I think they could do something pretty cool with the woodland cascades area.

I typically like the maps that have a little more diversity though though.

If we're reaching outside this season, I'd say Echovald for sure, and say some underwater Largos capital city or something. It would be bubbled somehow so the gameplay would be like normal gameplay and not underwater gameplay, but it would be cool to have this giant elaborate Largos city with Steve's glowing eyes looming in the background. Could get pretty creepy and dark too.

Other than that - Arah.

I'd love to have a map in the so far undiscovered part of Arah near the Artesian waters, and maybe an open world version of the explorable and story mode versions of Arah.

Honestly, I think a multi-chained fractal series with pre-cataclysm Arah could be pretty awesome. Seeing the city explored in its former glory, having it broken up into several different fractals that let you live through that portion of history. But as fractals are apparently no longer being developed the only hope of ever seeing that is with this new Vision thing they're implementing.

Other than that some more high fantasy maps would be kind of cool. Something akin to Heart of the Mists but with a more white/gold fairy tale kind of vibe.

Yeah, you pretty much described Mesmer.

I feel like the general climate has been disappointment and negativity for some time now. But I don't think it's really the community's fault or unrealistic expectations. I think it's just been people slowly noticing that the game isn't what it used to be and seems to be spiraling further away. People are voicing their concerns/dislikes because they enjoy the game, and WANT to play it, they're just finding reason after reason to not want to or to dislike it. But that isn't really being remedied by releases.

I think they also mentioned expansion-worthy features, and ever since then people have clung to it because they expected things like Guild Hall systems, mount mastery systems, and elite specs to be released during this saga but all they've mentioned is projects they've already been working on like whatever this pvp mode is, wvw alliances that will most likely never make it in, ascended cooking which they released before the saga even started, build templates which are a bit of a confusing disaster (for me at least). And all they've ultimately released is the same content they've been doing, except reduced bounties to a few select bosses and made them instanced or created redundant masteries that see little to no use.

> @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > > @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said:

> >

> > > And why would it/he/she even bother trying to bond with us, when the simpler solution would be to throw several armies of Svanir and Icebrood and fallen Kodan and boneskinners and whatever at us? I think there's a legitimate reason for Jormag contacting us outside of just trying to bait us into an easy target.

> >

> >

> > Well Kralk and the two others tried throwing force at the problem, and that didn't turn out so well for them.

> >

> >

>

> True, but the way I see it, Jormag is the smartest of the bunch. I think she (I'm just going to settle on that for simplicity) knows very well someone like the Commander isn't going to fall into her traps and will see right through her trickery and lies, so trying to lure us that way would be pointless. I think she has a legitimate concern, maybe the Deep Sea dragon, maybe Bangar, maybe something else entirely, that she wants to discuss with us.

>

> And writing-wise, that would be *so* predictable, lazy and an outright cliche. "Come to the dark side, we have cookies... that's right, you can trust me... Ha! Gotcha!" I seriously doubt that's the way Anet is going with this. Their writing has gotten better and better since LS3, and I'm expecting some legitimate surprises and twists here.

But I mean, if there was something, why not just discuss it? She has her minion alone in a room with us giving this nice little speech and she's getting her beauty sleep beneath the ice somewhere, so why not just tell us what the supposed threat is then and there? Why drag it out? Because she wants us to witness it first hand and be more convinced? But as you say, we're smart enough to resist. So, what difference does dragging it out make?

I guess there's always the possibility that this isn't even Jormag, or that something is controlling Jormag somehow. Seems highly unlikely, but that could be an interesting twist. This entire time we think we're communicating with an elder dragon and then find out that there's something out there that's capable of controlling/twisting an elder dragon to their will for a change. Maybe whatever was possessing things in the Dwarven fractal, or some other ancient entity that's mortal or at least not on the same scale as one of The Six or an Elder Dragon, but something from the mists or something older from Tyria. Would sort of fit the Lovecraftian theme and make the current trajectory seem a little more obscure.

I don't know. I just don't think it will be Primordus, whatever this threat is. And I don't think it will be some random mob from the mists. I'm also not inclined to believe it's some "Mother" super elder dragon, though I'm not ruling it out. Would be interesting to at least learn more from Jormag, about how elder dragons came to be and such.

> @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said:

> I honestly think there's not that many overall-useful masteries for Anet to think of anymore, as the movement/mount stuff, autoloot, fractal and raid stuff etc... are all covered.

>

> I think the S5 masteries so far are okay, as they'll likely be more and more relevant throughout the entire saga, unlike the Siren's Landing song thing that no one ever bothered with.

>

> Sure, it might be irrelevant at bosses that get zerked down regradless of essences or not, but it definitely makes a big impact on soloing mobs or doing small-group events, and they open the essence-locked chests as well when you're at it. So yes, they might be a 'pointless gate' and obsolete outside Bjora Marches/other saga maps, but at least they're consistent. And hopefully more impactful in the future releases.

I think they could do a mastery theme built around that skill steal that we had during the world vs world weekend. As on ode to capture signets you could have a capture signet mastery that allows you to steal unique abilities from mobs that you kill or bosses you fight. It wouldn't be the most exciting thing in the world, but if you find one that you really enjoy playing with your build you could decide what kind of special action skill you get.

There are a lot of combat oriented systems I think they could implement, whether it's taking an ability from a mob or just outright gaining a specific buff set or "on/crit" "on/hit" ability, - cooldown reductions, transform abilities that improve our existing skills or give us new ones. I think that would work well for the spirits aside from norns already having their racials. (Which are pretty lackluster in their current implementation.)

This mastery just feels either rushed and uninspired, or, a very rudimentary implementation of something they plan on building on much later. Perhaps as each episode is released they shift from just being buffs and lazer beams to genuinely impactful gameplay. I think if anything, they'll just abandon it long before that considering how poorly received this one seems to be.

It really makes me wonder if they even tested this mastery, and if they did what were the conditions they used? Were they testing open world mobs? Just testing to make sure the chests unlocked? Strike missions? Individual aspects of it, i.e. - cc breakbar percengage by itself, damage by itself, buff impactfulness by itself? Maybe it would feel better without having to stack to thirty and have a 15 minute duration, or collect little orbs on the ground?

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > It'll come out when it comes out...don't know why everyone is shocked when one isn't released instantaneously, if you have that much trouble with your inventory...

>

> Don't know why you are shocked that people are "shocked" that one isn't released instantly. It should be a standard.

And this is the same living story format they've had for years. I think I remember us getting one pretty quickly during season 4. So the fact that they regressed and didn't put one in for this leads me to believe they either forgot, or are intentionally doing it because they:

1. Don't know how many episodes this is going to be - and the datamining of page slots last time gave us a hint as to how many episodes there would be.

2. Don't want us to have an idea as to how many episodes it's going to be for the same reason.

3. Don't know how many episodes it's going to be and this prevents them from creating a tome because for some reason the tome slots need to be coded with a predetermined amount.

But I assume they're just making a remark about people requesting a quality of life update just for the sheer enjoyment of being argumentative.

They have a habit of backtracking on quality of life improvements throughout these patches, whether it's tomes, or consumables, or inventory clutter trash items, or collection achievements. They can be pretty inconsistent, so I think it's good to bring attention to them when you can.

> @"Hevoskuuri.3891" said:

> And why would it/he/she even bother trying to bond with us, when the simpler solution would be to throw several armies of Svanir and Icebrood and fallen Kodan and boneskinners and whatever at us? I think there's a legitimate reason for Jormag contacting us outside of just trying to bait us into an easy target.

Well Kralk and the two others tried throwing force at the problem, and that didn't turn out so well for them.

She's likely just trying to coerce us because of our connection to Aurene. If we can be persuaded, we can help persuade Aurene. Not sure how well that would work with Aurene being somewhat prophetic like Glint though, at least from what we saw with her visions before.

And I lean towards the deep sea dragon. But a being from the mists doesn't really sound that intimidating at this point. I guess there's the possibility that it's something more ancient and elusive than an elder dragon. Or perhaps even a threat like a civil war, that Aurene wouldn't want to participate in. I don't know.

It's difficult to even want to talk about possibilities when you know the answers are likely 2 years away.