Israel.7056

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> I found no DS made the game lower skilled and more brainless (this is apparently what some like) in that you didn't need to pick skills or classes for stomps/rezzes, that there were no plays like banish into mesmer blink stomp and it also put less pressure on your cooldowns.

I genuinely do not understand how anyone could have played no downed state week and walked away thinking it took less skill to win fights instead of more. I found the game to be much much much more difficult than usual because I could make far fewer mistakes than i normally can as i couldn't fall back on resses and rallies to carry me when a fight went sideways.

I also think you're as wrong as wrong can be about cd pressure because when you go down your cds keep ticking so the proper way to play gw2 with downed state is to go ham and blow your cds every chance you get because it's very likely that you will kill someone and get a rally if you do go down and most if not all of your stuff will be off cd again and your support will heal you to full. The absolute wrong way to play this game normally is to hold your cds and risk going down without pressing all your buttons at least once.

You're right that there would be no more fancy stomps though. A small price to pay imo.

> @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> I can roll around on my warrior or guard or indeed rev all day and not worry about being one shotted. That's not the issue. Fail a dodge? Right. Because you can know EXACTLY when that attack is coming from stealth or other classes that don't have as many instant defences against the one shot builds (and which is why they travel in packs...).

Alright here's the thing: the whole point of stealth is the element of surprise. That's literally the entire point of stealth. Once you understand that you know that you have to keep your head on a swivel and be paranoid if you're roaming or running back to your group solo because you can always get opened on. I've made some common sense suggestions for stealth in other threads but in principle you're not supposed to see the hit coming so you have to anticipate it maneuver around the map carefully and react quickly if you get jumped.

Rev doesn't really have much in the way of o shit buttons except for glint heal and that's not gonna do much except give you a few extra seconds to contemplate how badly you fucked up if you eat an big opener from a thief or a mesmer because they're just going to stow and wait and then burst you again and now you don't have the big heal.

I definitely got 100-0 solo a few times during no downed state week but quite frankly the fight would've been the same with downed state because I didn't see the hit coming and that's my fault.

> Nothing to do with skill. Some classes just handle the inst-gib mechanics much better than others.

Yes and no. The auto procs dont require mechnical skill to help you survive a stealth opener this is true. But quite often the difference between getting jumped and not getting jumped is just being able to quickly identify audio cues or noticing some purple mesmer bullshit out of the corner of one eye and that's all part of awareness. I consider awareness to be an aspect of game knowledge which in turn is a big part of what makes a good player imo.

> But sure, scrap downed state- and let me know which server you're fighting against, tag up and see how fast your dead as pin sniping reaches new levels.

Perhaps. But what if downed state has been carrying pins and the way pins play this whole time? This is the only game I've ever played where it's not always a terrible idea to walk out in front of everyone else all the time. Perhaps the usual lead from the front approach would have to change if pins couldn't rely on illusion, mi and chain ressing whenever they overextended. Food for thought.

> Personally I hardly ever get ressed from down state- mainly because I'm one of the last left standing in most fights which we're losing, so maybe scrap down state and bring in snipe wars and more focus groups.

I get ressed all the time because I go ham because I know I can.

> Wonder how the long range meta with instant build ballistas would suit. Just drag your blob into 3 of them, fire and half your numbers including most of core are downed, oh wait now they are all dead. Would you enjoy that meta? Distance would be key- as as soon as your invuln drops you're spiked.

If I ever die to something that dumb then I deserve to die.

> @"Heartpains.7312" said:

> Isreal, this have nothing to do with being carried or not, and my complains will be about it will promote certain classes/builds I said this before and I will say it again.

> 1. Mesmers

> 2. Thieves

> 3. Engies

> 4. Rangers.

> 5. Warriors possible.

This is already the roaming meta and has been for quite some time.

If you're dying to that stuff now then it'll be harder without downed state for you but that's a l2p issue you will get better over time.

I don't think the zerg meta would change much either tbh.

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Polls are trash.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

> > > > >

> > > > > The poll is clearly biased towards no down state.

> > > > >

> > > > > There is no vote option of 'leave it as it is, it's fine', rather the leave it option spouts on about being ressed by a zone blob.

> > > > >

> > > > > Removing down state would be fine if you remove one shot builds, completely rework or remove stealth, restrict max damage from skills and reduce condi bombs and rework boons and boon strips. As that's not going to happen, removing downed state will just encourage yet more cheese builds and do nothing for the game mode except make even more gank squads.

> > > >

> > > > All the people claiming to be consistently dying to so called "one shot" builds are bad players imo they're going to get rolled no matter what until they l2p.

> > > >

> > > > I spent probably 6 hrs a day fighting non stop during no downed state week with 150+ ping on eu servers and I got 100-0d maybe 6 or 7 times total on a rev and it was always my fault.

> > > >

> > > > Most of the people left playing this game are so bad that they can't deal with simple mmo things like burst or stealth and no downed state just filters them out faster because they can't get carried by resses when they fail a dodge or don't los properly or waste defensives etc.

> > > >

> > > > If you're worried about not being able to compete without downed state that is a reflection on your own skill level not a problem with the game itself.

> > >

> > > Actually downstate is just like anything else, good players handle it better than bad ones, if you aren't up to handling it so want the game made even more simple, then well...

> > >

> > > Which was one of the things that differentiated the handful of properly good teams in PvP (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) and the rest, let alone the garbage that are most self proclaimed "good" WvW players and guilds.

> >

> > I have been getting carried by downed state just like everyone else all this time but i know from playing without it now that I don't need it and that downed state just slows the game down and gives second chances to players who fail in every other way at the game. Its a crutch and it needs to go. All the crutches need to go.

> >

> > Everyone who wants to keep downed state knows they've been getting carried by it all this time and they're scared they won't be able to compete without it it's just that simple hence the endless whinging in these threads about stealth or spike damage or whatever else whenever this subject is brought up. They figure they would lose more often to builds they can't fight effectively even with downed state. It's the exact same objections every single time and they're always l2p objections.

> >

> >

>

> If you can't handle downstate that is a L2P issue, they don't need to dumb the game down just because you have issues.

>

> As for "crutches" please stop making me laugh, you are playing a game that literally aims for you, that has always been packed full of passives, where balance in WvW has always been laughably bad so cheese builds/comps carry hard and so on, if you genuinely cared about "crutches" you would not be playing this game, but you are, which speaks volumes.

>

>

Downed state is a crutch for me just like it is for everyone else i just know I can win without it now so I don't need it anymore. The game was much much harder for me during no downed state week but it was good because it made me a better player. Going back to downed state made me realize how much easier it makes the game and how much it dumbs down combat for me. If you got farmed during no downed state week that's on you dude just play more and you will get better.

Btw If there's a better rvr game out there let me know everything else ive tried has been terrible. eso was complete trash and bdo was a Korean grindfest. Maybe cu or cf will be better but until then this is the best rvr game I know of.

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > > > >

> > > > > Polls are trash.

> > > >

> > > > Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

> > >

> > > The poll is clearly biased towards no down state.

> > >

> > > There is no vote option of 'leave it as it is, it's fine', rather the leave it option spouts on about being ressed by a zone blob.

> > >

> > > Removing down state would be fine if you remove one shot builds, completely rework or remove stealth, restrict max damage from skills and reduce condi bombs and rework boons and boon strips. As that's not going to happen, removing downed state will just encourage yet more cheese builds and do nothing for the game mode except make even more gank squads.

> >

> > All the people claiming to be consistently dying to so called "one shot" builds are bad players imo they're going to get rolled no matter what until they l2p.

> >

> > I spent probably 6 hrs a day fighting non stop during no downed state week with 150+ ping on eu servers and I got 100-0d maybe 6 or 7 times total on a rev and it was always my fault.

> >

> > Most of the people left playing this game are so bad that they can't deal with simple mmo things like burst or stealth and no downed state just filters them out faster because they can't get carried by resses when they fail a dodge or don't los properly or waste defensives etc.

> >

> > If you're worried about not being able to compete without downed state that is a reflection on your own skill level not a problem with the game itself.

>

> Actually downstate is just like anything else, good players handle it better than bad ones, if you aren't up to handling it so want the game made even more simple, then well...

>

> Which was one of the things that differentiated the handful of properly good teams in PvP (TCG, Orange Logo, etc) and the rest, let alone the garbage that are most self proclaimed "good" WvW players and guilds.

I have been getting carried by downed state just like everyone else all this time but i know from playing without it now that I don't need it and that downed state just slows the game down and gives second chances to players who fail in every other way at the game. Its a crutch and it needs to go. All the crutches need to go.

Everyone who wants to keep downed state knows they've been getting carried by it all this time and they're scared they won't be able to compete without it it's just that simple hence the endless whinging in these threads about stealth or spike damage or whatever else whenever this subject is brought up. They figure they would lose more often to builds they can't fight effectively even with downed state. It's the exact same objections every single time and they're always l2p objections.

> @"Baldrick.8967" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > >

> > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > >

> > > Polls are trash.

> >

> > Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

>

> The poll is clearly biased towards no down state.

>

> There is no vote option of 'leave it as it is, it's fine', rather the leave it option spouts on about being ressed by a zone blob.

>

> Removing down state would be fine if you remove one shot builds, completely rework or remove stealth, restrict max damage from skills and reduce condi bombs and rework boons and boon strips. As that's not going to happen, removing downed state will just encourage yet more cheese builds and do nothing for the game mode except make even more gank squads.

All the people claiming to be consistently dying to so called "one shot" builds are bad players imo they're going to get rolled no matter what until they l2p.

I spent probably 6 hrs a day fighting non stop during no downed state week with 150+ ping on eu servers and I got 100-0d maybe 6 or 7 times total on a rev and it was always my fault.

Most of the people left playing this game are so bad that they can't deal with simple mmo things like burst or stealth and no downed state just filters them out faster because they can't get carried by resses when they fail a dodge or don't los properly or waste defensives etc.

If you're worried about not being able to compete without downed state that is a reflection on your own skill level not a problem with the game itself.

Treason lol

I'd say I'm mostly situation 3.

Warrior or guardian if he's any good at games. Warrior can be played with a steering wheel guard a bit more involved especially if he gets serious about wvw and decides to try to learn firebrand.

An account on every server

> @"Tehologist.5841" said:

> Why is the boon strip any worse than boon corruption, which scourges have by the butt load as well as pulls. 10 seconds every 90 seems pretty reasonable to me and the skill is at least strategic.

It isn't just a boon strip, WoD has 4 main features:

1.) Projectile negation - Pretty impactful as there are actually a lot of projectile based skills in the game

2.) Lightning combo field - leaps turn into dazes which is pretty annoying given how it strips stab and prevents reapplication

3.) Periodic AoE boon strip - very strong and made even stronger by enchantment collapse trait

4.) Boon application negation - imo the most impactful and overpowered feature of the skill by far.

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> If more classes had the effect of boon denial it would be a bit more normal to deal with and ppl would be a lot more ready for it.

Then they'd have to add some kind of active counter play to the debuff like making it a condition instead of a "player state" or whatever they call it.

> @"Jski.6180" said:

> Not so much the strip but the block of reapplying boons that needs to be something more classes should have.

I dunno I think it's just too strong of an effect in gw2 given its design. So much of this game's class mechanics and thus combat mechanics revolve entirely around boons so it's like a complete negation of a significant part of the core mechanical gw2 gameplay across all classes. It's hard for me to even think of an analogous effect for this game, maybe something like a field that stopped all healing and dodging within it or something like that it's that impactful.

> So what we have is one effect on one class that defines a wining fight or a lost because it is dealing with effects from all classes.

Precisely right.

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"nativity.3057" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > > > > winds is ok. its not as strong as it was before. what ppl need to do is either w off it, w dodge off it (changing direction with mouse to avoid enemy bombs)

> > > >

> > > > Ok and what should people do if they're fighting a group that is actually smart enough to drop their ccs and their damage in the same place as the bubble at the same time the bubble goes off so they can't just walk or dodge out of it?

> > >

> > > shouldn't they be rewarded for being organized enough to make this play?

> >

> > As much as people should be rewarded for running 20 scourges sure. It's very very easy to do which is why so many organized groups do it.

>

> run 20 revs. it will clear the place of scourges.

>

> seriously ppl need to try rev x engi x sb.

>

> dwarf and damage.from revs bubble.from.war.and.regen condi cleanse.from.engi. and super speed. it would rock their world.

Youre interpreting what i said too literally. It was posed as an analogy.

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > > winds is ok. its not as strong as it was before. what ppl need to do is either w off it, w dodge off it (changing direction with mouse to avoid enemy bombs)

> >

> > Ok and what should people do if they're fighting a group that is actually smart enough to drop their ccs and their damage in the same place as the bubble at the same time the bubble goes off so they can't just walk or dodge out of it?

>

> what do you do when you meet a hammer train in the oldays, w and dodge forward.

>

> or bait them to drop it and counter bomb.

>

> or mass invis and regroup.

>

> or have a safety portal.

>

> there is this very strong sbi group who does just that and they kill our team and they are very tight but if you speed up stab and dodge to their back, you have a chance to counter or escape.

>

> you should know this by now

Three separate lines of thought:

1.) Ye old hammer trains were very different in the "old days." Back then literally all anyone needed to get through them were stab rotations and you couldn't even lose stab to cc it had to be stripped and there were nowhere near as many boon strips and corrupts in the game as there are now. Null field and the necro well were pretty much all anyone had to worry about back then. Today's game is vastly different stab is a shadow of its former self there are tons of spammable boon strips and corrupts and of course there are bubbles which are one of the primary offenders because theyre way way stronger than a simple boon strip or a corrupt.

2.) How do they kill your group with bubbled bombs at all if you know its coming and there are so many simple ways for you and your guys to survive it?

3.) I personally know all the ways people try to survive bubble bombs because I've been part of groups that have been using bubble bombs since pof released. I know exactly how they work and how they can fail and so I know that telling people to "just dodge out" isn't very useful advice.

This is particularly true if it's a close quarters fight like a lords room or a hallway or what have you because the entire ground is going to be covered and there's not going to be any safe place to dodge out if they can dodge at all.

> @"nativity.3057" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> > > winds is ok. its not as strong as it was before. what ppl need to do is either w off it, w dodge off it (changing direction with mouse to avoid enemy bombs)

> >

> > Ok and what should people do if they're fighting a group that is actually smart enough to drop their ccs and their damage in the same place as the bubble at the same time the bubble goes off so they can't just walk or dodge out of it?

>

> shouldn't they be rewarded for being organized enough to make this play?

As much as people should be rewarded for running 20 scourges sure. It's very very easy to do which is why so many organized groups do it.

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> winds is ok. its not as strong as it was before. what ppl need to do is either w off it, w dodge off it (changing direction with mouse to avoid enemy bombs)

Ok and what should people do if they're fighting a group that is actually smart enough to drop their ccs and their damage in the same place as the bubble at the same time the bubble goes off so they can't just walk or dodge out of it?

> @"Little Snow.7142" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > ... how is that trolling though?

>

> which server r u in ? let me tap ur keep and stealth , over and over for 4 hours ,

Plz do, if you can be bothered to tap a keep for 4 hours of your life I'd say you deserve to keep it contested.

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > > > not really... without wod we'd have simply less diversity because there would not be a reason to bring warrior as a class into wvw fights. And even without wod the scourge+firebrand+herald combo would stay the same. We'd have simply more pirateship and even less engage.

> > > >

> > > > No one is saying they should delete WoD just that it needs to be toned down.

> > > >

> > > > Also how do you figure a weaker WoD would push the meta more in the direction of pirate shipping when WoD is the main reason for pirate shipping?

> > >

> > > Then i am glad you are not in the balance team, because wod is definitly not one of the problems in wvw :D. And you'd still have pirateship because there are no melee zergs that can do well vs scourge/herald range aoe burst. Without WoD there would be far less incentive to ever try to push into the opponent zerg. The main reason for pirate shipping is the ability to burst and dps (on a huge area) from a safe distance, not WoD.

> > > Ask anet if we can have one week without WoD to see what would change.

> >

> > I think you might actually be on the balance team because it sounds like you don't even play the game.

> >

> > WoD isn't just used as an offensive tool for setting up a big CC/Bomb hit it's also used as a defensive tool to disassemble melee trains by negating their firebrands and trapping them with ccs and damage and it works great for both uses.

> >

> > WoD is the main reason since PoF released for the move towards "pirate shipping" because stab is now completely unreliable if the enemy has spellbreakers.

> >

> > Ez to push if it's just heralds and scourges, can walk right through that no big deal. But if they have spellbreakers it's a much riskier proposition. There's always a good chance your squad is gonna get multi-bubbled and your guards and revs aren't going to be able to stab anyone out and since the only reliable counter play to getting bubbled is to gtfo and you can't gtfo as easily without stab, everyone is much more likely to die in a single bomb. So a lot of groups play it safe at range instead and only push when they think it's very low risk.

> >

> > It's still possible to push even with enemy spellbreakers, especially if they're disorganized and it's only one or two warriors, but it's pretty much a no go if they're organized with 5+ and 5+ spellbreakers is pretty much the norm now for any organized group.

>

> hm i don't think you get that a zerg does not solely consists of scourges and heralds. Ofc support classes (mostly firebrands) are also always present. The pirate shipping would not stop when WoD would not exist. Scourge with firebrand support is far from easy to run over and it has enough boon rip/convert to stunlock you untill you die even with a firebrand support next to you. The moment a zerg pushes into the scourge/herald bomb they are all dead. And so what that people lose some boons and get picked of (and that's not even directly because of WoD because it doesn't even deal dmg)? Many skills in this game do exactly the same. Ofc WoD gives wvw gameplay a little shape, but many other skills do so too. And i don't see you complaining about rev hammer, scourge aoes or firebrands ability to spam boons.

>

Ok so putting aside what is and isn't doable for a second....

I said earlier the problem with the skill isn't the boon strip that's fairly easy to deal with and you're quite right there's lots of other boon strips in the game. If that was all WoD did id say it was basically fine. But WoD has an aspect to it that is functionally unique in this game do you know what that is?

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> > > This is a simple L2P issue. If there's a warrior coming at you, you have two options. Move off or focus CC him. If people just stand there that is their problem.

> >

> > Strawman.

>

> What did I misrepresent?

We aren't talking about one or two warriors yoloing in by themselves with no support or cover. At least I didn't get that from the op.

If that's what he meant then you're right.

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Ferus.3165" said:

> > > not really... without wod we'd have simply less diversity because there would not be a reason to bring warrior as a class into wvw fights. And even without wod the scourge+firebrand+herald combo would stay the same. We'd have simply more pirateship and even less engage.

> >

> > No one is saying they should delete WoD just that it needs to be toned down.

> >

> > Also how do you figure a weaker WoD would push the meta more in the direction of pirate shipping when WoD is the main reason for pirate shipping?

>

> Then i am glad you are not in the balance team, because wod is definitly not one of the problems in wvw :D. And you'd still have pirateship because there are no melee zergs that can do well vs scourge/herald range aoe burst. Without WoD there would be far less incentive to ever try to push into the opponent zerg. The main reason for pirate shipping is the ability to burst and dps (on a huge area) from a safe distance, not WoD.

> Ask anet if we can have one week without WoD to see what would change.

I think you might actually be on the balance team because it sounds like you don't even play the game.

WoD isn't just used as an offensive tool for setting up a big CC/Bomb hit it's also used as a defensive tool to disassemble melee trains by negating their firebrands and trapping them with ccs and damage and it works great for both uses.

WoD is the main reason since PoF released for the move towards "pirate shipping" because stab is now completely unreliable if the enemy has spellbreakers.

Ez to push if it's just heralds and scourges, can walk right through that no big deal. But if they have spellbreakers it's a much riskier proposition. There's always a good chance your squad is gonna get multi-bubbled and your guards and revs aren't going to be able to stab anyone out and since the only reliable counter play to getting bubbled is to gtfo and you can't gtfo as easily without stab, everyone is much more likely to die in a single bomb. So a lot of groups play it safe at range instead and only push when they think it's very low risk.

It's still possible to push even with enemy spellbreakers, especially if they're disorganized and it's only one or two warriors, but it's pretty much a no go if they're organized with 5+ and 5+ spellbreakers is pretty much the norm now for any organized group.

> @"Ferus.3165" said:

> not really... without wod we'd have simply less diversity because there would not be a reason to bring warrior as a class into wvw fights. And even without wod the scourge+firebrand+herald combo would stay the same. We'd have simply more pirateship and even less engage.

No one is saying they should delete WoD just that it needs to be toned down.

Also how do you figure a weaker WoD would push the meta more in the direction of pirate shipping when WoD is the main reason for pirate shipping?

> @"ProverbsofHell.2307" said:

> This is a simple L2P issue. If there's a warrior coming at you, you have two options. Move off or focus CC him. If people just stand there that is their problem.

Strawman.

> @"funassistant.6589" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"funassistant.6589" said:

> > > That's not constructive at all, now you're just flaming a region.

> > > I can do it too for example: NA suck boo

> >

> > Just letting him know that EU in general is nothing special.

> >

> > They have some really good players and some extremely bad players and a majority of their players are somewhere in the middle just like NA.

>

> Just letting you know that NA in general is nothing special.

>

> They have some really good players and some extremely bad players and a majority of their players are somewhere in the middle just like EU.

> I can do it too mom! Look I posted it again!

>

Yeah and I already knew that. This whole EU vs NA thing is silly imo, there's hardly any difference between the two regions in terms of average skill level as far as I can tell.

EU was basically exactly the same as NA except that I saw Vabbi players being more willing in general to join squad and hop in coms for blobbing compared to a server like Mag but I just chalked that down to a difference in server culture. I did notice that some of the EU pins we faced were more tolerant of successive wipes but then again I also saw a few of the celeb Vabbi pins rage log after one or two fights on at least two occasions so I figure it all averages out in the long run.

The really nice thing about Vabbi was that they knew they were going to lose because they had zero coverage outside of prime so they just showed up for prime did the fights and logged and I liked that but I also saw the all too familiar siege turtle tactics I'm used to on NA being used by several of the servers Vabbi faced in the time I was there.

> @"funassistant.6589" said:

> That's not constructive at all, now you're just flaming a region.

> I can do it too for example: NA suck boo

Just letting him know that EU in general is nothing special.

They have some really good players and some extremely bad players and a majority of their players are somewhere in the middle just like NA.