Israel.7056

> @"Storm.7190" said:

> NA WvW is absolute garbage, both at an open field level, and in GvGs. I had people from EU tell me their NA experiences and its absolutely laughable, among other things. And rQm transferred to EU because there is no NA GvG scene. Nice try though.

I mean eu in general was pretty horrendous too. Played there for a little over a month on vabbi most of the pugs and the organized groups were no better and often even worse than the trash tier guilds on na. The nice thing about eu guilds was that they would usually be willing to get wiped 10 times before rage logging instead of 2 or 3. It may be that there are still a few eu guilds who take gvg seriously but I would say on average eu skill levels are no higher than na.

Basically agree I think the best place to start would be removing the boon denial.

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Once upon a time I used to be a theorycrafter, min/maxxer player. Problem was, after I managed to min/max my builds to destroy anything in my path I had no challenge. I lost interest because nothing could really do anything to me. It was log in, destroy everything and everyone in sight, collect loot, and leave. It got boring. Fast. Now I prefer to have a challenge when I play. It makes things more interesting and fun. Do I win every time? No. Do I lose every time? No. I get a more even play. It makes me stay longer in the game because I'm having fun being challenged. I get the "Want to win all the time" mentality. I have been there before. But it's lonely at the top. Pretty soon people learn to avoid you because they know they can't win. So you see people running from zergs because, "Oh look, they have all the extreme Meta builds and know how to use them to their maximum advantage and we can't do anything about it but lose." Yay. So much fun. Then when you get two equally matched zergs, well it's an hours worth of fighting with no results. Yay. So much fun. Casual play is not a bad thing. People keep trying to make it out like it is, but it isn't. This is just a game, no need to take it so seriously. It's not like you are getting payed to play this game competitively, if you want that then you need to look into other games that are E-Sports oriented and go there instead.

Lol I don't buy it but let's say for the sake of argument that you're telling the truth.

You claim to condescend to your opponents by tying one hand behind your back so to speak in order to give them a better chance of beating you. How fundamentally disrespectful, how dishonorable. You shame yourself and disrespect your opponents in the process.

If your opponent cannot beat you when you're trying your best to win they don't deserve to win, not even once. When someone beats me they know that I didn't pull any punches and that they did something right. When they lose to me they know it's because I was better in that moment and that they have holes in their game that need to be addressed. If you let them win when they shouldn't all you do is make them think they're better than they are and in doing so you undermine the fundamental value of competition which is self discovery.

The fundamental precept of what I think separates casual from hardcore is not "I want to win all the time" but rather "I want to be the best I can possibly be at whatever it is I'm currently doing." Casuals resign themselves to personal mediocrity whereas hardcores strive to be the best they can be at whatever it is they're doing even if they never actually make it to the top.

Being hardcore is also not principally about money in my view it's about being passionate, disciplined and dedicated to self improvement in anything one decides to do in life including video games. If you happen to be good enough at a thing to make money doing it then that's great too but I see that as an added bonus not the primary motivation.

Being at the "top" has never been lonely for me whenever I've managed to achieve it, I have found it to be personally gratifying but inevitably short lived. Someone always comes along and knocks me back down sooner or later. This is how it should be.

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Also don't forget that the majority may not have the same playstyle as the minority. There are a lot of people that like to solo play not group play. There are a lot of people that want to build a character to the way that they want to play, not Meta. There are a lot of people that do not like to get on TS or Discord, for various reasons. There are a lot of people that like to capture things instead of fighting other players. There are a lot of things most people like that the few that do speak on the forums don't and can't seem to understand.

>

> To quote the opening theme song of an old T.V. show called Diff'rent Strokes - "Now the world don't move, to the beat of just one drum, what might be right for you, may not be right for some."

Yeah they're called casuals the vast majority of gw2 wvw players are casuals. They can't be bothered with organized team play, theorycraft or actual PvP. They wanna log in for an hour or two run some yaks on their soulbeast get their pips and log off. They might spend some extra time playing the next living story release or farming the newest legendary in istan or whatever the next farmable map is but that's about it.

They already know how to please the majority.

> @"SoulSin.5682" said:

> I have to laught at the fact that people believe that cutting off damage by 30% would "fix" thier own inability of dealing with stealth targets.

>

> If they cut damage by 30%, classes will just answer by adding more damage.

At some point cutting damage would work but it's an inelegant solution imo.

I think this is the wrong way to think about it personally. Stealth openers are supposed to wreck face they're just too easy to set up repeatedly and too hard to detect and shut down in this game which makes them feel like cheese when they don't have to be.

It's just too big of a buff that's all. 10 percent would be a huge advantage in this game 30 percent is nuts.

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> One can be a casual and still understand how team gameplay works. It's an entirely different thing to just show up, do whatever you please and expect to be rewarded at the maximum level possible.

Yeah I guess that's "tomato" which is one level below "casual"

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

> Vanilla GW didn't have a Meta in the beginning. Meta came along because of Min/Maxers looking for the highest reward with the lowest amount of risk.

Metas don't "come along" they're figured out by so called "min/maxers" aka competent theorycrafters.

The meta is like a platonic ideal which theorycrafters attempt to pluck from the ether so to speak.

It can take time for understanding of the meta to spread from the hardcore guilds who almost always figure it out first to the casual guilds who almost always just copy whatever the hardcore guilds do effectively. If you were part of a casual guild at launch it would have appeared to you as if there were no meta for some time because neither you nor anyone else around you were engaged in any sort of serious theorycrafting about the game but this doesn't mean there was no meta only that you didn't know about it.

> @"oOStaticOo.9467" said:

>There used to be a time when Meta wasn't really a thing in WvW

For you maybe.

You get jumped by 4 of almost anything in the game solo and you're probably dead so that's a silly argument.

They removed pips and eotm players were a bunch of bunnies chasing carrots. No carrot no bunny simple as that.

> @"Limodriver.4106" said:

> > Probably kek

>

> best GvG guild is not the same as best Blob Guild lol u dont see Kek come out to play with their 10 man grp..

He asked pound for pound best gvg guild not best 10 man havoc. Not uncommon for 20s guild to have 30+ on roster for subs. They're easily the best on na imo.

I don't think I lost more than 2 or 3 fights 100-0 the entire no downed state weekend and I would've lost those fights just the same with downed state. The big difference was I won several outnumbered fights that probably would've been unwinnable normally. I even won a couple 1v4s because I got the jump on people. All in all id say it was well worth the trade off at least for someone like me.

Probably kek

> @"Victory.2879" said:

> I've met quite a few whose only claim to fame is UD: they got it farming points in OS for the most part. They could 'work as a team' , ie throw themselves at the enemy in a ball whilst spamming skills using their face, and 'keep calm' as in not start screaming in ts/vent/discord if their pixels got touched.

>

> Generally UD could be changed to 'blobber' as a description and still be fairly accurate. Personally I'd go for 'seasoned lootstick user', then you could have a whole series of titles based off that leading to 'mastered the art of tagging'.

>

> Most of the skilled players left years ago when it was clear Anet weren't supporting the game mode to any real extent and didn't support gvg- which could have been excellent with properly designed areas (ie not a flat surface where two balls mash into each other).

>

> There's a few left and then there are others who just pop on and play wvw for a couple hours a week as a change from whatever else they are playing.

>

> Then there are the die hards who server hop looking for better bag farming opportunities (which they call 'fights') whilst calling for anything that prevents them rolling around a map unhindered to be nerfed and saying those 4 defenders should come out and fight against their 15-25 man 'raid'.

Lol so negative and cynical. How many kills do you have I wonder?

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > Wvw is about staying calm and working as a team and I've yet to meet someone with ud who couldn't do that pretty well.

>

> Zog has it now...

>

>

Indeed a very comical exception to the rule.

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > >

> > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > >

> > > Polls are trash.

> >

> > Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

>

> This one is also trash. It is a typical non-randomized poll with loaded answers that reflect the author's base assumptions. The author isn't doing "research", he's just looking for people who agree with him. I never take these polls seriously. Anet should do away with the polling function on this forum all together, to be honest, because they are a form of petitioning.

Yeah the questions are definitely loaded youre right about that. I don't see the problem with petitioning they don't seem to care either way.

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> > > >

> > > > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> > >

> > > Erm that is kind of what I'm saying. However, it could easily go DBL Poll and leave a large chunk of the community upset. Removal of downed state, no matter how attractive, will just polarize the community more with bunkers and glass cannons and little in between. Nothing good can really come from this type of poll, anet official or not.

> >

> > The vets are always disappointed with this game and its community nothing new there. Game coddles bad players it is what it is.

>

> Of course it coddles bad players (though given it is a casual themepark MMORPG I am not sure why anyone would expect different), which is exactly why the vet players that remain, are still playing the excuse for "PvP" that is WvW , because they are bad.

Well it's either eso bdo or this game for rvr so....

> @"Chaba.5410" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> >

> > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

>

> Polls are trash.

Depends on how they're structured this one seems pretty simple to me.

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

> >

> > Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

>

> Erm that is kind of what I'm saying. However, it could easily go DBL Poll and leave a large chunk of the community upset. Removal of downed state, no matter how attractive, will just polarize the community more with bunkers and glass cannons and little in between. Nothing good can really come from this type of poll, anet official or not.

The vets are always disappointed with this game and its community nothing new there. Game coddles bad players it is what it is.

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> Please don't make these kinds of polls. They are just going to be skewed. Beyond the fact that one shot is a rampant thing and wvw is dependent on incomming new players to stay afloat.

Way more trash than treasure on this forum no downed isn't ever going to win a straw poll here be serious.

> @"Victory.2879" said:

> I don't want the title changed at all, leave it where it is. We know the ones that gamed it in OS, and those that used the lootstick (back when guard was the best looter toon). I remember comparing notes with a guard in the same team after we had been going for a couple hours- he'd gained a lot more (and I mean like 3+ times more) loot, wexp, etc than my staff support ele managed.

>

> It's just a measure of how many you tagged- says nothing about your actual skill level or if you're any good at all.

>

> If anything, it measures how much of a no life you have, as it's mainly a function of time and tier and blobbyness.

I mean the guys who have the most tags had to have also won a lot of fights to get all those tags even if they were on necros or guards. Tw for instance was farming bg na for thousands of kills a night for years so those guys got the title fast. So in my experience it's at the very least an indicator of experience and I'll take experience over mechanically skilled any day in this game. Wvw is about staying calm and working as a team and I've yet to meet someone with ud who couldn't do that pretty well.

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> Stealth needs rework anyway, you can see it because of the amount of DE crying in the forums. And because stealth is designed as PvE mechanic which is very toxic in any PvP game mode.

I would not judge the validity of a complaint by how often it appears on this forum most of these players are absolute bottom tier they will lose to everything and anything and think it's completely broken. I also think the word "toxic" is overused. Everything is "toxic" these days to someone it would seem.

> * Thief will have a reserved spot in any squad if the squad wants to use stealth to make the push. Most commanders will want a couple of thieves just because that reason.

I mean....maybe?