Israel.7056

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > how does that give the thief a spot in a WvW squad?

> >

> > They're not going to have a space in many squads unless they can provide some kind of ultra valuable unique utility (like venoms were supposed to be I guess) for the other players in the squad that no other class can do better or until their AoE potential rivals that of necro or ele. Group stealth is easier to do with mesmers or even scrappers and both of those have even more utility on top of stealth so thief can't really compete for those spots.

> >

> > Pick is pretty much the only good place for thieves who want to play the more traditional single target assassination role in WvW and most guilds don't run pick except maybe in GvGs which don't happen much and ranger is probably better for pick anyways because it's got enormous range and some group utility in soulbeast as well.

> >

> > Squad comp is all about group synergy and thief just doesn't really have much group oriented stuff to build synergies around.

>

> i know but thread title says that his 'awesome' suggestion would provide them a spot.

> he is a ranger with rather tanky build relying on sic em to do any meaningful damage if at all, obviously that is easily counterable and he will have an issue in many roaming fights, especially against elusive builds were his long cooldown short burst phase will fail.

> now that his change wont do anything for zerg fights aside from making veil obsolete as it wont cover a thing. in small scale for deadeye nothing changes aside from even easier stealth for whatever reason, d/p thieves are pretty much deleted but they are already few - they might play deadeye now aswell or s/d. for mesmers well they wont be able to stealth gank as easily and they wont be able to run away as much, yet for most 1 vs 1 encounters nothing changes.

> so he pushes then thieves to play deadeye wich considering recent threads is for many less fun, reduces mesmers escape potential wich will probably even more increase amount of deadeyes and maybe rangers. but he on his tanky ranger still wont have a better chance fighting them. so instead of further reducing diversity in roaming i suggest he just playes what he deems to strong there, not 20 or 30 min but for a few month so he runs into people able to fight against it and maybe learn what he can do on his main against em. because no matter the profession or the build most players you run into are simply not good and killable with any build. just getting away from groups is something not anyone can and why some professions are prefered over others.

You're right I misread the title post.

I don't see how these changes would suddenly give thief a spot in squads either.

Squads are about synergy and this would just make thief weaker in general unless other substantial changes were made to the class.

> @"MUDse.7623" said:

> how does that give the thief a spot in a WvW squad?

They're not going to have a space in many squads unless they can provide some kind of ultra valuable unique utility (like venoms were supposed to be I guess) for the other players in the squad that no other class can do better or until their AoE potential rivals that of necro or ele. Group stealth is easier to do with mesmers or even scrappers and both of those have even more utility on top of stealth so thief can't really compete for those spots.

Pick is pretty much the only good place for thieves who want to play the more traditional single target assassination role in WvW and most guilds don't run pick except maybe in GvGs which don't happen much and ranger is probably better for pick anyways because it's got enormous range and some group utility in soulbeast as well.

Squad comp is all about group synergy and thief just doesn't really have much group oriented stuff to build synergies around.

I don't see how this recommendation would suddenly give thieves a spot either.

I definitely think the idea of stealth only working at a certain range in principle is nice but I'd shorten the range dramatically to something like 120.

Also I think going into stealth should not make someone invisible immediately but that they should progressively fade from view over a second or two so it can't be used to immediately drop target and reposition.

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> ... This issues has been discussed and the devs are doing something about it. Not sure why you can’t understand all this.

I could be wrong but I think he's saying that he doesn't believe alliances are going to change much. I think he's probably right.

> @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

> Haha ok sociopath.

Lol I wish

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> There's no such thing as a perma stealth deadeye though. Deaths judgment applies reveal to you whether it hits or not. If the opponent doesn't react fast enough to the lazor beam or loud visual cue and look for you, that's on them.

"Perma stealth" is perhaps hyperbole granted but they still have lots of stealth and I do think the OP makes a valid complaint about stealth in this game. I think my suggestion would add some extra counterplay to stealth that would make it much less powerful overall. Also if stealthed people would be translucent to anyone standing within like 120 range of them or something.

> @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

> Yeah man, thanks for the life advice Captain Obvious, that's exactly what I've been saying, which is what you can't seem to grasp for some reason. I never said I was going to continue playing a trash build and be a farming node to the meta for years, in this or any other game, I simply said I don't find rolling with the meta interesting or engaging or fun. Make sense? You act as though everyone is so stupid they don't realize they're getting shafted by playing non-meta, but most people are smarter than that or simply don't care. I quit years ago because rolling with the meta is boring in my opinion, and requires far less skill and cooperation than large scale PvP games from over a decade ago. I don't find anything challenging about it. I prefer to be challenged in games, and don't like gameplay that requires very little thought and effort. I just came back a couple weeks ago, and while I enjoy medium scale fights between PUGs, they get rolled over by meta blobs 90% of the time, so what's the point? Anet acknowledged years ago that WvW wasn't working as they had envisioned, and I'm surprised to find out they haven't corrected the problem with the game engine that caused the meta-blob phenomenon to begin with. After 5 years I guess it's going to stay like it is, so I'll either play meta again for a while, or like most people I know I'll just quit to play something better designed and leave you guys to blobbing around.

K good riddance.

> @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

> Also funny because I've been in the meta game, which is the only reason I know how silly it is. Doesn't have anything to do with having a ranger toon, because meta excludes far more than just that class. But hey keep harassing people because they think this part of the game is lacking some serious polish, and here pretty soon you won't have any PUGs to roll over with your pirate ship meta blob. Then you'll just be 3 pirate ship meta blobs of the same 5 builds running circles around each other, unable to kill anyone unless they lag out of the blob into AoE instadeath, because there's certainly no skill or thought required to do what meta blobs do.

Keeo telling yourself that bud.

People have been saying this for six years now and guess what? Still lots of people to fight.

Will this game completely die eventually? I have no doubt. But there will always be a next game and there will always be a meta and it will always be exclusive and exclusionary at high enough levels of play. The cream always rises to the top so to speak.

You can spend the rest of your gaming years cutting off your nose to spite your face, playing non meta garbage and getting mad when no one wants to play with you or help you when you need help or you can accept that you just gotta do what you gotta do to compete and find a good guild and make some friends and win lots of fights and have lots of fun.

The choice is yours.

> @"zinkz.7045" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > > > @"Limodriver.4106" said:

> > > > join a fight guild with a uesfull class instead of a ranger?

> > >

> > > 800k kills with most hours on thief then ranger. It's purely a 'how long do you play' achieve

> >

> > I'm inclined to think that it would take most rangers or thieves twice as long as you've played to get even half as many kills though. Most of them are complete trash.

>

> So no different from most WvW players then (and by most I mean nearly all), because blobbing around in a 6 year old MMORPG is where all the good gamers are at.

Interesting isn't it? So despite the meta being supposedly super simple at any given point and the game being extremely mechanically easy and full of gimmicks and cheese an overwhelming majority of players just get rolled for years and never get the title much less hit the 500k or 750k mark. If they can't get the kills in a game this easy maybe the problem isn't the game??? Food for thought team.

> @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

> > >But I guess your attitude is that if someone doesn't agree with your assessment of things, or doesn't like the current state of WvW, then we're "kitten trying to ice skate uphill" and deserve to be harassed and ridiculed.

> >

> > I think that your gaming attitude as you've expressed it so far is in this thread is worthy of ridicule because it's like someone trying to ice skate uphill and blaming anyone who doesn't want to join them in the attempt or help them when they inevitably fail at it.

>

> Your reading comprehension needs a lot of work. I never blamed anyone who enjoys the current meta, other than to say, quite correctly and from experience, that a restrictive meta kills game communities every, single, time, and the people participating in the meta game tend to be hostile to anyone outside of their box. I know entire guilds that have quit this game because the WvW meta is so restrictive and dominant, so don't pretend like it doesn't drive large amounts of people away from this part of the game.

>

> I get it, you're playing WvW in the most effective and efficient manner possible, but personally I don't find what that has turned large scale WvW into to be especially interesting. You like the meta pirate ship blob WvW? Great, I couldn't care less. Go have fun with it. I don't like it, so I'm going to express that opinion, and "too bad" if you're kitten about someone having a negative opinion about something you like. Deal with it and move on. Funny that you've proven my point, because I never asked for your input, you simply saw that somebody had an opinion about the current meta that you don't agree with, and you decided to attack me personally with the usual nonsense that more or less amounts to "git gud, meta or beta, QQ moar rangers" which is the same crap we see in WvW every single night. Next time just be more concise with your mockery, and you can save us both some time. I don't show up in your meta discussion threads trashing the meta's because they like that aspect of the game, so I don't really see why you have such a problem with someone expressing a dislike for an aspect of gameplay in a product they paid for and invested time in.

>

> With that said, sorry for hijacking this thread. I was just trying to express some frustration in a cynical manner while giving the OP the fastest and most effective path to this achievement, but apparently some people can't handle differing opinions.

Lol all this because i quite rightly sensed you were a mad ranger. Have fun getting kicked from every good guild and squad bro good luck on UD someday.

For anyone else actually interested in actually winning fights pro tip don't ever be this guy.

> @"Player.9621" said:

> honestly i dont get why people dont stack AGAINST bg

> push them down instead of trying to leech

Because stacking isn't actually much fun.

> @"Celsith.2753" said:

> > @"Limodriver.4106" said:

> > join a fight guild with a uesfull class instead of a ranger?

>

> 800k kills with most hours on thief then ranger. It's purely a 'how long do you play' achieve

I'm inclined to think that it would take most rangers or thieves twice as long as you've played to get even half as many kills though. Most of them are complete trash.

I think they should just make it so that people don't go completely invisible immediately upon entering stealth but rather gradually fade so it would give some counterplay to perma stealth builds.

I believe the solution is to let people see what happens when they bandwagon and stack and see if they really think it's worth it afterwards. I know from personal experience being on BG for years that once we started steamrolling every matchup it was super boring and I didn't have any interest in playing anymore.

I've found that I'd personally rather be on a server that loses the PPT almost every week but has enough heart to keep showing up and fighting men every day than on a server that only exists only to facilitate matchup wins. It's a personal choice and you have to let people make up their own minds.

> @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

>But I guess your attitude is that if someone doesn't agree with your assessment of things, or doesn't like the current state of WvW, then we're "kitten trying to ice skate uphill" and deserve to be harassed and ridiculed.

I think that your gaming attitude as you've expressed it so far is in this thread is worthy of ridicule because it's like someone trying to ice skate uphill and blaming anyone who doesn't want to join them in the attempt or help them when they inevitably fail at it.

> @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

> Nah, I'm pretty sure that's on the people who created the entire class to be useless in that given situation. Funny how you vaguely insult me like I'm an idiot who can't learn a new class, as if GW2 is some monumentally complicated game to be proficient at, but that's the typical mindset with you guys and exactly what I'm talking about, as if you somehow think ranger is the ONLY class I've ever played in this game. You haven't offered any insight, just veiled insults, which means you responded to me simply to harass someone voicing concerns about problems they have with gameplay, not to offer anything meaningful. Pretty toxic, don't you think? Of course in your effort to troll me, you've completely missed the point which is this; meta pirate ship WvW is BORING AS HELL and caters to the laziest and most brainless approach to a WvW game there could possibly be. There is absolutely zero tactical thinking, zero variety to how battles are won; stack up, mash the same AoE buttons as you move about in a blob comprised of less than a third of the possible specs in the game, and of course it gives rise to obnoxious elitists who slowly kill the game with their toxic exclusionary behavior. And don't pretend the problem is exclusive to rangers, because you know it isn't.

You don't like the meta? Too bad. You think it's too simple? Too bad. You don't want to play something other than your ranger? Too bad. Get kicked then.

You don't have the right to be included in anything. No one has any responsibility to play the game with you if they don't want to. No one owes you a single minute of their time.

I don't have any amazing insight to offer you here just a simple truth: fix up or get kicked by most squads.

But to quote the great movie Blade: "there always some motherfucker trying to ice skate uphill."

> @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

> > > All you need to do is 1. join a guild that only admits one of the 5 meta builds, 2. run around in their pirate blob using zero tactical thinking spamming the same 2 aoe abilites over and over and over, 3. constantly verbally harass anyone who isn't using one of 5 said meta builds and dares to run close to your meta pirate blob, tell them to focus on downs, tell them they're useless, don't rally or rez them, and so on, 4. think you're at the height of achievement when you're really partially responsible for this game mode's slow death. After about a year of that, you should have your achievement.

> >

> > Lollll so bitter i smell a ranger.

>

> Ah so I guess you think a game mode that excludes 13 out of 18 specializations from being effective in large scale encounters is a well designed system?

I have learned to have very low expectations for balance in MMOs so I'd say it's pretty well designed compared to the other MMOs I've played. But I also don't really care that much because I've always been able to quickly swap and learn to play something useful and wanted in every game mode I've ever played in every game I've ever played including this one. I've personally swapped mains 4 times since launch. If you can't be bothered to try to learn to play something other than ranger in WvW even when it's been transparently clear that it's mostly useless and unwanted by pretty much every WvW guild since launch then I think that's on you.

> @"OrchusGhole.9846" said:

> All you need to do is 1. join a guild that only admits one of the 5 meta builds, 2. run around in their pirate blob using zero tactical thinking spamming the same 2 aoe abilites over and over and over, 3. constantly verbally harass anyone who isn't using one of 5 said meta builds and dares to run close to your meta pirate blob, tell them to focus on downs, tell them they're useless, don't rally or rez them, and so on, 4. think you're at the height of achievement when you're really partially responsible for this game mode's slow death. After about a year of that, you should have your achievement.

Lollll so bitter i smell a ranger.

Just takes time and even a semi decent guild.

If you're trying to get it solo roaming then yeah it's probably gonna take a very long time.

Yeah nerf deadeyes so we can nurture castles again!!

Ok first question: would anyone still run the dodge roll traits and sigils of energy without this food?

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> ???

>

> everyone will use this now. anet will notic. anet will nerf. until then

Think most of the roamers have been using it for a while

The obvious answer to the question is that they believe there's more money to be made by focusing resources elsewhere. They've got a pretty stable formula for generating pve content with attendant sellable cash shop fluff while they have never been able to figure out monetization of wvw past transfers. Seems an obvious choice of priorities to me.

@OP I believe the answer to your question is essentially this: MMO players, particularly the ones who enjoy open world anything goes type game modes, do not really want complete balance because it's boring, they want enough diversity of choice that there's always a possibility that they or someone else will come up with the next great "overperforming" build or comp so that they can play that build or comp until it gets nerfed and the cycle repeats. MMO developers understand this and so they don't worry as much about perfect balance for game modes like WvW and instead try to give players as many options as possible and see what players make of it and then they just try to whack-a-mole tune the stuff that gets complained about the most during any given balancing cycle.

Perfect balance is fundamentally boring to open world type players. Potential imbalance is infinitely more interesting and fun for most people who play this sort of game mode.

It's been mostly terrible for na as well it seems obvious to me that they should have just merged servers