Israel.7056
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Posts posted by Israel.7056
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> @"MUDse.7623" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:
> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.
> > >
> > > I go in to WvW to fight other players and NPCs for WvW XP, Reward track XP, complete dailies and collect loot. Your feelings are not anywhere on my list of concerns.
> > >
> > > If you are on the opposing team, I will do everything I can to defeat you, because in WvW all you are to me is walking WvW XP, Reward track XP, dailies completion and loot.
> > >
> > > - If you are fighting against two other members of my server, I will without a thought jump in to make it a 3v1 to not only help my team mates, but to collect WvW XP, track XP, dailies and loot.
> > > - If you are attacking any camp (mine or 3rd servers) and are going 1vs all the camp guards, I will single target you down, the if the camp is also hostile, I will kill the remaining guards and cap the camp myself - because WvW XP et al
> > > - If you flee a fight and fall off a cliff, get downed, and are self-healing to bring yourself back up....I DPS you down - because WvW XP et al
> > >
> > > You can choose to play WvW any way you want, but don't presume to have the authority to tell me or anyone else how they can or can't play the game, or what you designate as 'appropriate'.
> > >
> > > Because in a PvP game mode, if your primary goal isn't to defeat the enemy team in the most rapid and efficient method possible, then perhaps you're playing in the wrong game mode?
> > >
> > > ITT: too many people trying to bring safe spaces and trigger warnings into a players vs player video game.
> >
> > This isn't about safe spaces or trigger warnings, this is about basic video game ethics and respect of other players as human beings also playing a game not as enemy combatants fighting a war. This is not actually a war sorry to tell you.
> >
> > This is also not about my personal authority over you but about practicing the simple moral principle of "do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you." Also sometimes called the Law of Reciprocity.
> >
> > If you profess to having no sense of propriety or respect for me then neither I nor anyone else has any reason to treat you with any sort of propriety or respect either and the whole situation degenerates into this absurd "game is war" mentality where we all do anything we can think of to win including possibly things that aren't technically allowed but nonetheless hard to punish like spying and sabotage and arguably even hacking if it's not obvious or easy to police. Nothing is true everything is permitted.
> >
> > And for what? Some WXP? Some loot bags? Reward track XP? Shinies and fluff, God help you.
>
> me killing the opponent in whatever way is indeed not a real attack to that person, it is only pixels. that doesnt mean that i dont respect the other as a human being. we both agreed to play the game and the game has set rules. if i kill you within these rules you agreed upon by playing the game, then i think that is respectful. if i use a hack for that, then its not. people whispering me after i kill them, insulting me cause they didnt like the way i fight, that is not respectfull. because they choose to play a game with the options i use.
> i actually would prefer my opponents to use everything the game offers rather than blaming me for doing so. i just had today a funny guy, after i killed him he whispered me that i just can kill afk people because he was playing with just one hand as he had a phone call, i remembered his name he already once accused me of something similar. then he stated that my class can only kill noobs in a normal 1 vs 1. so we had a few very onesided duels that he lost. he then switched to any noob could kill anyone with such a lame build as mine and i personally cant be a decent player because i play such a lame build. he himself is ofc one of the best players and everyone knows it bla bla. i would have much prefered if he just would have used all the options in the game and defeat me if he really is the better player, but he didnt and instead just tried to attack me, my person emotionally in trying to make me feel bad, he didnt succeed but that is beside the point. i just attacked his toon, he attacked me. so who is disrespectful of the other person as a human being ?
The nice thing about duels is that both participants can always openly stipulate terms ahead of the duel so that there's no doubt as to what is going to be considered fair play and what is not.
The same can be done with any sort of arranged match like a GvG.
The difference with an impromptu fight is that one side can show up thinking the agreed upon rules are one thing while the other can show up thinking something drastically different i.e one group thinks it's going to be a fight without pin snipe and one group shows up with the express intent of just focusing the pin down.
So to reiterate and slightly expand my original post pin snipe is indeed quite effective and certainly a non-bannable tactic but it's boring because it kills fights. I also think that the thought process of "this game is actually a war so I'm going to do literally whatever it takes to win" can lead to some very dark places very quickly. I would highly advise against that sort of thinking.
The consistent answer would be to say never under any circumstance just like what I've said with acs but I've been in the situation before with myself or a friend being pin sniped so I know the temptation to just say "go ahead and do it back." Still two wrongs do not make a right.
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> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.
>
> I go in to WvW to fight other players and NPCs for WvW XP, Reward track XP, complete dailies and collect loot. Your feelings are not anywhere on my list of concerns.
>
> If you are on the opposing team, I will do everything I can to defeat you, because in WvW all you are to me is walking WvW XP, Reward track XP, dailies completion and loot.
>
> - If you are fighting against two other members of my server, I will without a thought jump in to make it a 3v1 to not only help my team mates, but to collect WvW XP, track XP, dailies and loot.
> - If you are attacking any camp (mine or 3rd servers) and are going 1vs all the camp guards, I will single target you down, the if the camp is also hostile, I will kill the remaining guards and cap the camp myself - because WvW XP et al
> - If you flee a fight and fall off a cliff, get downed, and are self-healing to bring yourself back up....I DPS you down - because WvW XP et al
>
> You can choose to play WvW any way you want, but don't presume to have the authority to tell me or anyone else how they can or can't play the game, or what you designate as 'appropriate'.
>
> Because in a PvP game mode, if your primary goal isn't to defeat the enemy team in the most rapid and efficient method possible, then perhaps you're playing in the wrong game mode?
>
> ITT: too many people trying to bring safe spaces and trigger warnings into a players vs player video game.
This isn't about safe spaces or trigger warnings, this is about basic video game ethics and respect of other players as human beings also playing a game not as enemy combatants fighting a war. This is not actually a war sorry to tell you.
This is also not about my personal authority over you but about practicing the simple moral principle of "do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you." Also sometimes called the Law of Reciprocity.
If you profess to having no sense of propriety or respect for me then neither I nor anyone else has any reason to treat you with any sort of propriety or respect either and the whole situation degenerates into this absurd "game is war" mentality where we all do anything we can think of to win including possibly things that aren't technically allowed but nonetheless hard to punish like spying and sabotage and arguably even hacking if it's not obvious or easy to police. Nothing is true everything is permitted.
And for what? Some WXP? Some loot bags? Reward track XP? Shinies and fluff, God help you.
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> @"Aeolus.3615" said:
> Pin sniping is a valid tactic, even in real wars along history was/is used.
Yeah didn't you guys know MLK was pin sniped?
JFK? Pin sniped. Osama bin Laden? Took a while, still got pin sniped.
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ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.
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> @"MUDse.7623" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Eramonster.2718" said:
> > > The ways and means meant little. The aim is to eliminate the target, be it a *cute fluffy little asuran at the back line freely dropping meteors* or the commander.
> > >
> > > Edit: As long as it's nothing major like game exploitation and hacks which in this case ain't.
> >
> > I disagree i think there's a very big difference between killing the pin on a push and killing a pin with corrupts chain pulls and moas.
> >
> >
> there is. when you pull them out corrupt etc before a push you will get 1 bag. if you snipe them when he pushes you get many bags.
That's one obvious difference yes. But to me the more important difference is the signal of intent. If the commander pushes and the enemy happens to drop a good bomb and kill everyone then they're still signaling an intent to play fairly. If every time the commander pushes he gets corrupted, pulled into africa and moad then the enemy is signaling that they have no interest in fighting fairly and that they really just want to win by any means necessary. It's difference between treating a game like a game and treating a game like a war. Once we go down the path of "the game is a war" then all bets are off and anything and everything is permissible even illegal acts as long as the people doing them don't get caught which is where we get into things like spying and sabotage and maybe even ddosing. Is that really the game we're playing here? I'd like to think not.
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> @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:
> A thread like this makes it difficult for players new to GW2 to take WvW seriously. When did we go back in time to the 18th century when it was considered ill mannered and ungentlemanly to kill the enemy officers and generals?
>
> If Team A has their commander sniped, and as a consequence, tags down ("I'm taking my ball and going home") and the squad melts away, according to this thread, the fault, the blame and the derision all belong on the shoulders of the enemy team? Sorry, in my book, the commander and squad on Team A are the ones who acted unsportsmanlike because someone was killed in a player vs. player environment.
This is not a war it's a video game. If you were serious about treating this like a war you would dox the commander go to his house and kill him irl and then never have to fight him again in the game. In games there is etiquette in war there is only the dead and the living.
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> @"Eramonster.2718" said:
> The ways and means meant little. The aim is to eliminate the target, be it a *cute fluffy little asuran at the back line freely dropping meteors* or the commander.
>
> Edit: As long as it's nothing major like game exploitation and hacks which in this case ain't.
I disagree i think there's a very big difference between killing the pin on a push and killing a pin with corrupts chain pulls and moas.
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> @"Arheundel.6451" said:
> > @"Player.9621" said:
> > good job
> > fed up with bads who camp walls and never come out to fight
>
> And I bet you're the "good" trying to force a fight which is more or less 10 to 1..so skilled
In my time zone it's always 30+ turtling with acs against even numbers so you must be playing offprime to have numbers that lopsided.
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> @"Eramonster.2718" said:
> It's a tactic and tactics can be underhanded (pin snipe is pale in comparison to some I've seen before). But are there any fair tactics? Aside from bothside using the same basis/method. Spies and such is acceptable cause it's common? It's okay to target the backline squishies or only if you target the frontline. But not okay if it's the commander(immunity?). On what basis to draw the line?
Perhaps we should first define pin snipe because there's a difference between dropping damage on the train and dropping the pin and corrupting the pins boons and then chain pulling him into Africa.
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> @"Sovereign.1093" said:
> topics derailing though. pls limit it in the context of if they snipe you first, do you retaliate?
Yes
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If it's wrong to do then it seems to me it's always wrong to do regardless of circumstance. That being said the game itself is value neutral there's nothing preventing all players from pin sniping in every fight everywhere all the time. The fact that it doesn't always happen suggests that there's at least some general sense that it is wrong. I think that is good.
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> @"shiri.4257" said:
> Wait...the broken part of the suicide zoning dome in your eyes is the projectile block? Are you one of those SB that drops winds on the lord to stop the meteors and npc guards from hitting you?
No he wants to 1v1 spellbreakers on a rifle engi.
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> @"MUDse.7623" said:
> your right it is pointless to pin snipe if you win your fights regardless. as winning more fights would be better. but when you server is losing fights, then pin sniping and brain afk ktrain is better than getting farmed.
I think I might have agreed with you years ago but now I'm not so sure. As I said in another thread it's all about what you really want. I think now that maybe it's better in the long run to get farmed, take the beating today and try to learn how to improve individually and as a guild or server and then win properly in the future. No shortcuts.
> same with complaints about AC, sure they are annoying but without your opponents using them you would probably farm them wich would also result them in logging off quick.
That is generally a problem with people who play GW2 and perhaps all of these online games; all ego no heart. Everyone just wants to win and very few actually want to try to get better.
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Effective but boring.
The point of a game isn't just to win it's to have fun. You start sniping a pin and it's not long before he rage logs and then there's nothing to fight.
I prefer not to pin snipe unless it's someone I hate and I want to ruin their day. Otherwise I try to beat people legit.
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> @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:
> > @"Voltekka.2375" said:
> > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:
> > > > @"shiri.4257" said:
> > > > > @"iKeostuKen.2738" said:
> > > > > I went for what was able to work and fun to play with for myself.
> > > >
> > > > There lies the problem.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If you think thats a problem then I dont know what to tell you. I mean it was Pre HoT - HoT era SPvP stuff. Meta mentality players I guess.
> >
> > Yet, you cant expect your "fun and working build" to be better than someone's "working and meta" build. I dont care about meta most of the times in wvw roaming, and sometimes I get my kitten kicked from better players, and it is fine.
>
> Mmm ok, but this thread has nothing to do with the builds I used to use a long time ago and more about the current condition of PvP. Not really understanding where those dots connect to how i used to play being how the design in the game to this day has only been getting worse.
I would argue that specific major changes are causing most of the problems. The first obvious big problemstic change was condi stacking. Another was removing stats from trait lines. Another was giving everyone three grandmaster. Another was rolling traits together to make super traits. 4 stat gear in particular trailblazer mara minstrel but others are problems as well. And then obviously pof stuff in general is still too strong but the three main standouts have been firebrand scourge and spellbreaker. It's too easy to get too much basically.
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> @"babazhook.6805" said:
> The presumption is made that because player A is drawn to GW2 because of "Organized GvG fights" all other players must be drawn to it for the same reason. The reality is there a large segment of the population that has no interest . The second issue is that those players drawn to organized GvG fights tend to move around server to server, Guild to Guild looking for the Guild or playergroup that they consider as the most "skilled" . When this happens inevitably there are fewer Guilds left that can be competitve with them in a GvG fight , thus no fights.
>
> All the time I hear in chat "Don't join Guild XXX they are trash YYY is a good fight guild" begging the question if no one joins a Guild deemed trash for those GvG fights then who are they going to fight? It sort like a player fot the Golden State Warriors complaining that games against the Atlanta hawks are not very competitive. The way I see it if a person as good as he thinks he is, he should join one of those weaker guilds and help carry them if he really wants to "see skilled fights".
One good player isn't going to carry an entire guild of bad players I don't care how good he/she is. In my experience it takes at least one good player out of every three to make a guild salvageable.
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Not only does he do his own thing and expect it to work but when it doesn't work he doesn't even seem try to figure out why it doesn't work and what he can do to fix the problem. Posts like this make me laugh but also feel pessimistic about the future of this game because of players like this. OP there is little hope for you if you aren't even willing to consider how you can make changes to be more effective. If you or anyone else expects to just be able to take any build for any class into WvW and be useful in any scenario you find yourself in you are destined to be frustrated. If you honestly think you're going to be able to effectively roam on a renegade when most roamers are almost hard counters to rev in general and renegade in particular you are destined to be frustrated. The most common roamer builds at present as far as i can tell are: mirage, thief, soulbeast, spellbreaker. If your build cannot deal with any or all of these it's a bad build for roaming period.
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> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:
> I always envious of servers that have many people who ranked mithril or even diamond. Then, when I look at my server, I feel sad, finding players of those ranks are like as rare as a precious gem. It seems like "good" players tend to stack server and naturally those server become full of "good" players. Then, often whine about where the good fights, I really can't comprehend this mentality.
>
> It makes me wonder if I am just too stupid to understand or others too pretentious about it.
You're not wrong but no one wants to try to carry trash pugs though.
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Keks on fa they run pretty deep might give them a try
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Found the problem playing renegade solo roaming.
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Believe me I know the feeling. My server has been a complete disaster lately almost no one running proper builds very few people getting in coms etc etc. And yeah 15v40 is a tough fight for anyone. I've got over 11k hrs in this game and I've been in god only knows how many fights and I still lose those all the time. But it's better to try the fight and lose with honor than build a bunch of siege and maybe win. Also sometimes I win when massively outnumbered and that's a great feeling when it happens.
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> @"Aeolus.3615" said:
> > @"Sovereign.1093" said:
> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:
> > > > @"Sovereign.1093" said:
> > > > wvw is so much like a moba, maybe edit abit of what we have now and simplify?
> > >
> > > Simplification for Anet means more spam more damage... carefull with what u ask there lol...
> >
> > hehe, well it is a war x resource simulator this wvw is.
> >
> > ae is simply the option to deal with nos. i mean maybe the limit of the engine?
>
> The less spam the more they can add later.... imagine MS hittin 20 players with big rocks falling from the sky hiting 5 players heach, :dizzy: that would be a true meteor storm... and not a rock on your head skill xD.
>
> Spam = casuals feeling good, Anet is top at managing placebos, reason they prefer to keep with the Ac's spam rather than make players learn how and when to use it.
>
> @Israel.7056, i think it is good, i feel everyone knows how ac's can reach very lame levels , but they dont have much option, some are from small servers that fight big groups + siege so they are forced to use siege as well, that's how WvW is designed to work.
I play on a relatively small na server too. No one is ever forced to do anything using siege is always always a choice. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. To me it's obvious that using siege to try to win fights is wrong and disgraceful and it makes terrible players in the long run. Better to try the fight legit and lose the fight and the objective than disgrace yourself I say. Unfortunately there are people on my server who will defend things with acs but I try to yell at them as much as possible whenever I see it.
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What is truly sad and unfortunate to see is how common this viewpoint seems to be within the gw2 community.
I'm glad to see that not everyone takes the low road though.
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> @"Rysdude.3824" said:
> This attempt at macho smack talk in the forums of a video game is hilarious, yet sad, at the same time lol
>
> Oh, arrow carts are fine as is.
Not about being "macho" just expressing my utter disgust at the viewpoint being presented.
But then you don't seem to think ethics and morality have any place in video games for some reason. Luckily most people are not nihilists.
No acs are not fine.
opinion on pin snipe?
in World vs. World
Posted
> @"MUDse.7623" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"MUDse.7623" said:
> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:
> > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > ITT: too many people who played assassin's creed and take "nothing is true, everything is permitted" as their online gaming mantra.
> > > > >
> > > > > I go in to WvW to fight other players and NPCs for WvW XP, Reward track XP, complete dailies and collect loot. Your feelings are not anywhere on my list of concerns.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you are on the opposing team, I will do everything I can to defeat you, because in WvW all you are to me is walking WvW XP, Reward track XP, dailies completion and loot.
> > > > >
> > > > > - If you are fighting against two other members of my server, I will without a thought jump in to make it a 3v1 to not only help my team mates, but to collect WvW XP, track XP, dailies and loot.
> > > > > - If you are attacking any camp (mine or 3rd servers) and are going 1vs all the camp guards, I will single target you down, the if the camp is also hostile, I will kill the remaining guards and cap the camp myself - because WvW XP et al
> > > > > - If you flee a fight and fall off a cliff, get downed, and are self-healing to bring yourself back up....I DPS you down - because WvW XP et al
> > > > >
> > > > > You can choose to play WvW any way you want, but don't presume to have the authority to tell me or anyone else how they can or can't play the game, or what you designate as 'appropriate'.
> > > > >
> > > > > Because in a PvP game mode, if your primary goal isn't to defeat the enemy team in the most rapid and efficient method possible, then perhaps you're playing in the wrong game mode?
> > > > >
> > > > > ITT: too many people trying to bring safe spaces and trigger warnings into a players vs player video game.
> > > >
> > > > This isn't about safe spaces or trigger warnings, this is about basic video game ethics and respect of other players as human beings also playing a game not as enemy combatants fighting a war. This is not actually a war sorry to tell you.
> > > >
> > > > This is also not about my personal authority over you but about practicing the simple moral principle of "do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you." Also sometimes called the Law of Reciprocity.
> > > >
> > > > If you profess to having no sense of propriety or respect for me then neither I nor anyone else has any reason to treat you with any sort of propriety or respect either and the whole situation degenerates into this absurd "game is war" mentality where we all do anything we can think of to win including possibly things that aren't technically allowed but nonetheless hard to punish like spying and sabotage and arguably even hacking if it's not obvious or easy to police. Nothing is true everything is permitted.
> > > >
> > > > And for what? Some WXP? Some loot bags? Reward track XP? Shinies and fluff, God help you.
> > >
> > > me killing the opponent in whatever way is indeed not a real attack to that person, it is only pixels. that doesnt mean that i dont respect the other as a human being. we both agreed to play the game and the game has set rules. if i kill you within these rules you agreed upon by playing the game, then i think that is respectful. if i use a hack for that, then its not. people whispering me after i kill them, insulting me cause they didnt like the way i fight, that is not respectfull. because they choose to play a game with the options i use.
> > > i actually would prefer my opponents to use everything the game offers rather than blaming me for doing so. i just had today a funny guy, after i killed him he whispered me that i just can kill afk people because he was playing with just one hand as he had a phone call, i remembered his name he already once accused me of something similar. then he stated that my class can only kill noobs in a normal 1 vs 1. so we had a few very onesided duels that he lost. he then switched to any noob could kill anyone with such a lame build as mine and i personally cant be a decent player because i play such a lame build. he himself is ofc one of the best players and everyone knows it bla bla. i would have much prefered if he just would have used all the options in the game and defeat me if he really is the better player, but he didnt and instead just tried to attack me, my person emotionally in trying to make me feel bad, he didnt succeed but that is beside the point. i just attacked his toon, he attacked me. so who is disrespectful of the other person as a human being ?
> >
> > The nice thing about duels is that both participants can always openly stipulate terms ahead of the duel so that there's no doubt as to what is going to be considered fair play and what is not.
> >
> > The same can be done with any sort of arranged match like a GvG.
> >
> > The difference with an impromptu fight is that one side can show up thinking the agreed upon rules are one thing while the other can show up thinking something drastically different i.e one group thinks it's going to be a fight without pin snipe and one group shows up with the express intent of just focusing the pin down.
> >
> > So to reiterate and slightly expand my original post pin snipe is indeed quite effective and certainly a non-bannable tactic but it's boring because it kills fights. I also think that the thought process of "this game is actually a war so I'm going to do literally whatever it takes to win" can lead to some very dark places very quickly. I would highly advise against that sort of thinking.
> >
> > The consistent answer would be to say never under any circumstance just like what I've said with acs but I've been in the situation before with myself or a friend being pin sniped so I know the temptation to just say "go ahead and do it back." Still two wrongs do not make a right.
>
> while i do understand your point and there might be some mechanics/tactics where you will get a majority of players to agree that they are 'not fair' , it is really hard to tell unless you specifically agreed on them. the way one feels offended because of pin snipe , another feels offended by condition builds, by range builds, by anything that can run away etc. while you maybe dont pin snipe, he will see you if you play condi like you see people that pin snipe.
> if i respect every players wishes, what they deem fair, i best just join naked without weapons /traits etc. to not offend anyone.
> i mean can you make a full list of what rules i need to additionally follow aside from the games own rules, that i will be seen as fair ? by everyone?
No but I'm not proposing a majoritarian standard of ethics. I think the golden rule is a far better standard. Do not do anything to another that you would not like done to yourself. If you don't like your pin to get sniped don't pin snipe. If you dont care then do whatever but know that whatever you do to others you legitimate being done back to you and that that road quickly leads to either no fights or boring sniping back and forth. And for what?