Israel.7056

Because other things occupy a similar role and do more for the squad with less effort.

Another wonderfully carebear thread from Jumpin Lumpix

> @"X T D.6458" said:

> > @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > I doubt that your server is entirely empty. Look for zergs or learn how to flip camps and kill the Veteran event mobs for easy exp in the meantime

>

> Op is on BG.

Oh well I heard there's no one playing there anymore.

Sounds like a l2p issue to me.

I also hate this change resistance should just convert to vulnerability or something.

> @"LightBrave.5638" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > What to say....

> >

> > Perma boons full minstrel firebrand farting stability/resistance/protection that turn a never ending wave of celestial/trailblazer scourge into an unstoppable melee wave surrounded by walking aoes....while in the backline you see hammer revs critting your toon for 10k dmg from 1200 range and with a single skill.....despite you're having over 1900 toughness= 2700 armor....

> >

> > I really don't have anything to say ...I have lost all hopes, I find it hilarious that people used to complain about shareboon melee train meta..this meta is 10x worst with far less (if any) counterplay....-_-

>

> Best description of WvW. Ever. Some mmo's try and balance all classes and skills since game creation. This game? Create a meta and come back 1 year later. Don't enjoy the meta, meh roam or go play pve, since next year all your old classes will be worthless and you will be forced to buy the expansion.

Sometimes they try rebalancing but they often overshoot or undershoot problem areas and end up creating new problem areas in the process. Balancing is a very difficult task in a game like GW2 because of how many variables one has to consider.

I play rev so this meta has been easier on me than the condi boonshare melee ball meta. Scourges and firebrands are very easy to kill on rev.

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

> > >To be successful a server needs to do both.

> >

> > What is "successful?"

> >

>

> Since fun can't be measured outside of one's own mind and would be different person to person, I was referring to scoring and placement. Since it is a game I would value fun higher than score but the KDR/PPT impacts score since individuals can still have fun and be successful even if they are not winning via a scoreboard.

I agree but I'd even go further and say that it's best to just ignore the scoreboard completely.

> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:

>To be successful a server needs to do both.

What is "successful?"

> @"Warlord.9074" said:

> Lets, say that everyone should be able to do good damage like I said because that's what I meant. Lets me clarify it's one thing to be able to do damage, it's another thing entirely to be able to play in a way that you can make every mistake and it doesn't matter because you can just get out of jail for free. It's another thing entirely that we have some skills that is doing the damage which the damage is ok, is so easy to execute or a combo is so easy to execute that players can literally just push buttons without any thought at all. This is the problem with the game. It's not the damage although I will concede that some skills are overturned. I am not gonna make this about classes but there is a class that can auto attack and have like the best DPS in the game from auto attacking. This is the problem with the game.

> I definitely do not want to play bunker wars at all. The bunkering alone is one thing, its another thing to be able to engage into a fight as a bunker get low and be able to reset a fight or disengage whenever you want to. You can get a bunker low and then he can just run away. Thats the problem with the game there is no risk at all for these players.

Originally every base class had two main trait routes for being more "damage oriented" and then two main trait routes for being more "survival oriented" with a 5th line usually dedicated to class mechanics and/or utility. There were far fewer stat combos to choose from at the time and no 4 stat gear so if you wanted damage you were either zerk or rabid and if you wanted sustain it was clerics or soldiers and at that point each player had to choose two main lines to dedicate the majority of their skill points or whatever they were called so most builds at the time had clear strengths and weaknesses. With the addition of a full third grandmaster trait into every build and a trait reworking that left many traits overtuned and bloated and then the addition of insanely strong 4 stat combos i.e trailblazer, minstrel, marauder etc there are too many ways to pack too much stuff into a single build which leaves way too many overall strengths with very few overall weaknesses in comparison to how things used to be around launch and basically up until the HoT. Nowadays almost build for every class (in particular the roaming builds) have some kind of "you ccd me now this happens for free" type trait or "I landed a skill now some other strong thing happens too" type trait and then some kind of built in "auto emergency button" trait on top of pre existing immunities and utilities. Somewhere along the way they also decided to add more conditions to the game, make them ubiquitous and spammable and then make everything stack. This game is a master class in how to stack power creep on top of power creep and how to have multiple types of power creep moving alongside one another to create a giant convoluted mess that's hard to fully describe let alone unwind.

There is no easy way to go back from this. They'd have to drastically change the stat system, the traits, the skills, everything really.

I believe the first step is to realize that build diversity and class balance are naturally opposing forces from a development perspective. I've suggested before that they go to an amulet system like PvP and get rid of most stat combos currently available in WvW. Let people use their PvE gear in PvE but get it out of WvW. Get rid of Trailblazer, Minstrel, Nomad, tune down Celestial. Force people to make harder choices, no more stat mixing no more insane min maxing. Get rid of food and utility buffs. Unravel traits that have been bound together. Make people make tough choices when choosing traits. Force them to cook weaknesses into their builds. Reduce the functionality and strength of traits across the board, put the main strength of builds into the weapon skills and utilities so big plays have to be based on active button presses not auto procs. Get rid of automatic "emergency buttons." No one should be protected from death by a trait proc. Increase the CDs on skills and utilities across the board so the game becomes less about skill spamming and more about tactical use of powerful abilities.

IMO the goal from a development perspective should be to make the game harder and less forgiving overall to try to more reward skillful play rather than clever build and compcraft which is how I feel it is now.

If you want to be good at something you have to be dedicated to its practice. Secondarily some find mindful reflection useful i.e recording gameplay and playing it back. There's no magic to acquiring skill and experience in any endeavor it just takes time, effort and patience.

I don't have a problem with boons per se but they can become ridiculous when it's super easy to spam them and/or when major boons like stab prot resi and quickness can be essentially infinitely maintained.

Similarly I think condis can be ok but I wish they were more oriented towards disabling and debilitating rather than doing enormous damage on top of being disabling and debilitating.

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > How the game got to exactly where it is now is a POF specific balancing issue. The release of spellbreaker, scourge and firebrand into WvW completely changed the meta. I won't pretend to know their motives but I think they just kinda designed the new elites thematically around the desert theme of POF and didn't think too much about WvW balance or PvP balance for that matter.

> Spellbreaker and Scourge were designed for PVP and WvW, their whole _thing_ is about countering boons (which are rampant in PVP/WvW but largely a non-issue in PVE).

>

The basic effects of the skills were designed around PvP/WvW and boon negation/conversion etc but the area control they offer was clearly not tuned at all for what PvP/WvW are about and that's why Spellbreakers and Scourges are so insanely broken. It seems to me to be a result of an attempt to design around themes and aesthetics rather than thinking about how they were actually going to functionally effect gameplay.

I dunno about the mobility thing, two of the three most ubiquitous classes in WvW right now are actually pretty slow moving.

I also dunno about "everyone" doing too much damage I think most of the big damage is coming from just a few builds. Most builds for most classes don't do enough damage to justify their squishiness.

In terms of sustain they clearly overshot with firebrand sustain and didn't really consider what barrier spam could mean on top of heal spam.

How the game got to exactly where it is now is a POF specific balancing issue. The release of spellbreaker, scourge and firebrand into WvW completely changed the meta. I won't pretend to know their motives but I think they just kinda designed the new elites thematically around the desert theme of POF and didn't think too much about WvW balance or PvP balance for that matter.

I don't often interrupt 1v1s but I agree that no one has any reason to expect others to honor a dueling session.

I'd recommend considering swapping to rev if you want to feel more useful in a larger range of situations.

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > You can already skip content you dont like you just dont get the reward from it.

> >

> > Yes I do.

> >

> > In the case of hero challenges can I spend all day WvWing and just buy scrolls with heroics to skip the hero challenges. In the case of waypoints I can buy the unlocks from the gem store and skip ever having to actually go unlock them manually. I can even pay gems to skip the entire leveling process and go straight to level 80 from level 1.

> >

> > These things already exist in the game I'm simply proposing they add some method of skipping the hearts. Could be scrolls purchased with some in-game currency like in WvW or an item from the gem store either way would be fine with me.

> >

> > EDIT: To your other point; the game isn't real life it doesn't have to work like real life.

>

> Maybe I should start a thread asking for a way to get wvw levels in pve for like airship parts or trade contracts or the like its such a boring thing to grind in wvw.

> Dont sound reasonable to me but going by this thread its anything goes.

> And while we are at it put in first place in a tournament without having to do the spvp tournies too since why should I have to do boring spvp content for that.

Those all seem reasonable requests to me but they're the subject for another thread.

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> You can already skip content you dont like you just dont get the reward from it.

Yes I do.

In the case of hero challenges can I spend all day WvWing and just buy scrolls with heroics to skip the hero challenges. In the case of waypoints I can buy the unlocks from the gem store and skip ever having to actually go unlock them manually. I can even pay gems to skip the entire leveling process and go straight to level 80 from level 1.

These things already exist in the game I'm simply proposing they add some method of skipping the hearts. Could be scrolls purchased with some in-game currency like in WvW or an item from the gem store either way would be fine with me.

EDIT: To your other point; the game isn't real life it doesn't have to work like real life.

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > I have a question.

> > >

> > > Hearts are one of this game’s version of quests and all Hearts can be considered an extended optional quest system. Do any of you know any reputable game that allows you to purchase autocomplete of a whole quest system plus any rewards that are given with it..

> > >

> > > I’m going to bet no one can because reputable games simply don’t allow players to purchase completion of optional quests and get the quest rewards.

> >

> > This a classic case of "moving the goal post" with a "no true scotsman" fallacy thrown in on top of it. Now instead of trying to find logical precedent within this game we have to try to find logical precedent within others but only those which you would consider "reputable."

> >

> > Firstly there's no obvious logical reason why we should be considering other games. No game has to be like any other game. In fact the developers of this game have made it a key design principle to NOT do what other MMOs have done in many ways. You're simply attempting to move the goal posts.

> >

> > Secondly you've already said that no true "reputable" game would sell this sort of thing therefore any example anyone may find of such a transaction in another game would immediately disqualify that game from being considered "reputable." A classic example of the no true scotsman fallacy.

> >

>

> Let me just say then that I find this particular quest of yours to have the game changed so that an optional questing system gets an I Win Button with all rewards handed out is misguided at the very minimum, especially a questing system that has a major endgame reward tied to it.

>

> 1) the game already allows you a way to collaborate with other players who have done the quests and are willing to partner up.

> 2) MMOs are all about the grind. If you don’t like that grind go do something else that you do like. Don’t ask for a way to press a button and win with all rewards so you can make a profit faster.

Alright well thanks for your feedback I fundamentally disagree.

1. Nothing would be stopping people from continuing to do hearts if they chose to. Last I checked people still seem to do hero challenges even though they don't have to anymore.

2. I don't share your values so I don't see anything wrong with asking for a way to skip around content I find boring.

I like the idea of doing content you actually like to pay to skip content you don't. I really would like to see more of that in the game.

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> I have a question.

>

> Hearts are one of this game’s version of quests and all Hearts can be considered an extended optional quest system. Do any of you know any reputable game that allows you to purchase autocomplete of a whole quest system plus any rewards that are given with it..

>

> I’m going to bet no one can because reputable games simply don’t allow players to purchase completion of optional quests and get the quest rewards.

This a classic case of "moving the goal post" with a "no true scotsman" fallacy thrown in on top of it. Now instead of trying to find logical precedent within this game we have to try to find logical precedent within others but only those which you would consider "reputable."

Firstly there's no obvious logical reason why we should be considering other games. No game has to be like any other game. In fact the developers of this game have made it a key design principle to NOT do what other MMOs have done in many ways. You're simply attempting to move the goal posts.

Secondly you've already said that no true "reputable" game would sell this sort of thing therefore any example anyone may find of such a transaction in another game would immediately disqualify that game from being considered "reputable." A classic example of the no true scotsman fallacy.

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I did say I'd be glad to pay gems but I'd also be glad to pay some in game currency too it doesn't make much difference to me as long as I can skip the hearts.

> > > > >

> > > > > Which, again, is asking for something to be essentially free. Why would ANet even think to do this if it doesn't make them any money?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Then make it cost a lot of gems I don't care.

> > >

> > > Which you can still pay no real cash for because of the profits in gold you make in selling legendaries

> >

> > So what?

>

> So ANet won't make any money on your suggestion which is probably why they won't do it.

Just because they probably won't make any money off me doesn't mean they couldn't make money off of other players.

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I did say I'd be glad to pay gems but I'd also be glad to pay some in game currency too it doesn't make much difference to me as long as I can skip the hearts.

> > >

> > > Which, again, is asking for something to be essentially free. Why would ANet even think to do this if it doesn't make them any money?

> > >

> >

> > Then make it cost a lot of gems I don't care.

>

> Is anet publicly traded? If so work out how much 51% of the company costs and multiply that by 800.

>

> "New gemstore item: stock!"

I'm not sure I follow.

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > > I did say I'd be glad to pay gems but I'd also be glad to pay some in game currency too it doesn't make much difference to me as long as I can skip the hearts.

> > >

> > > Which, again, is asking for something to be essentially free. Why would ANet even think to do this if it doesn't make them any money?

> > >

> >

> > Then make it cost a lot of gems I don't care.

>

> Which you can still pay no real cash for because of the profits in gold you make in selling legendaries

So what?

I must have a different definition of "havoc" because in my mind a havoc guild is one that desieges things and tries to take objectives with a small number of people. I think what you're asking about are roaming guilds and they have mostly ceased to exist in NA. YB has one called Brotherhood of Zetara but they mostly just try to spawn camp.

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Israel.7056" said:

>

> >

> > I did say I'd be glad to pay gems but I'd also be glad to pay some in game currency too it doesn't make much difference to me as long as I can skip the hearts.

>

> Which, again, is asking for something to be essentially free. Why would ANet even think to do this if it doesn't make them any money?

>

Then make it cost a lot of gems I don't care.