Israel.7056
-
Posts
1,349 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Events
Articles
Gallery
Posts posted by Israel.7056
-
-
> @"mauried.5608" said:
> Skipping content is a bit of a meaningless concept in a game where you arnt required to do anything at all.
> Skipping content , but still getting the rewards you would have got if you did the content is slightly differant.
> Maybe a differant perspective to the perceived problem would be would you rather than doing hearts, be prepared to do something else which was just as time consuming?
> eg you buy with gems a quest.
> The quest requires you to visit every NPC vendor in every zone , and each vendor will give you a list of materials and items which wont be able to be bought on the TP to bring to them and then you will be given a piece of a puzzle.
> When you have all the pieces you have to then solve the puzzle.
> When you have solved the puzzle, you get the GOE.
> The puzzle would be differant each time , so repeatedly doing this method would not make it easier.
>
>
>
I have a bit of a semantic issue here which is that all things in all games are essentially optional. You don't even have to play the game. But if you are going to play the game and you want a particular thing then you have to do what you have to do to get it if that makes sense. So in this case ofcourse the hearts are entirely optional. Unless you want to get your own Gift of Exploration in which case you have to do the hearts otherwise you can't finish map completion.
As to your suggestion that sounds interesting maybe. It would at least be something new. I would still prefer to just spend either in game currency or gems on an item similar to the heroic scrolls from WvW but maybe your idea could be fun I dunno I'd have to play it to see.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> You know OP. You really missed a chance when you made your thread only about hearts. You should have made buying autocomplete of content anything in game. Anything that anyone decides is too boring and tedious to do.
>
> Want the Yakslapper title? Auto complete of the WvW Legendary backpack? Raid tiers? Achievements? Titles? Anything. Anything and everything. All the person needs to do is declare they are bored, bored, bored with that old content and that there can be no possible harm to the game with that content being autocompleted and they can buy the autocomplete and get the rewards.
>
> What could possibly go wrong?
None of those things would bother me in the slightest but I'm personally focused on hearts. If other people want to put forward the idea of skipping other content then they should. I'd be all for it, give everyone Ultimate Dominator for a price, who cares?
-
> @"Sarge shot Grif.6450" said:
> No. No it does not. Also you're not skipping hero points, you're progressing them through other means but you're still putting in the work and that method doesn't translate to hearts so well.
Why not? They could introduce a scroll that did the same thing for random hearts in the core maps just like the scrolls for the hero challenges. If they want to charge twice as many heroics for one heart scroll I'd be fine with that.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Celsith.2753" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> >
> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > To any ANET people reading this thread: I would buy gems for this item, that's how much it would be worth to me and I'm sure many others would buy gems for this as well.
> > >
> > > Any more questions?
> > >
> >
> > Yes i have a question. Why didn't you also quote where he said he'd also be willing to buy with ingame currencies such as wvw badges, or from players if it was made tradeable?
>
> Because the specific question asked was “who said gems.”
I did say I'd be glad to pay gems but I'd also be glad to pay some in game currency too it doesn't make much difference to me as long as I can skip the hearts.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > @"Velran.1052" said:
> > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > So tell me, you players who want this. What other content completion should ANet sell in the gemstore? Old raids? Mastery points? Full map completion? Because you know if they start selling content completion then there’s nothing to hold them back and nothing to stop other players from asking for completion purchase of whatever content they want to buy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Literally all you do is spew slippery slope fallacies. Adds nothing to a conversation other than making you look dumb. OP wants to avoid bad, old, abandoned and frankly terrible content by allowing it to be bypassed with gold or even other currencies (pretty sure the never even specified which, you people just immediately assumed it was gems) that are acquired from the content that is still supported and regularly updated.
> > > >
> > > > And I don't even know what to tell you if you think he's trying to profit from this. All that will happen is he will end up spending more gold on making the legendary instead of doing hearts.
> > > >
> > >
> > > So then tell me. If ANet does sell heart completion in the gemstore what would stop people from asking for the next set of content completion they want to buy? And what would stop ANet from selling more content completion?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Nothing. As much as nothing stops them now. It's all arbitrary.
>
> You’re avoiding my question.
>
> Once ANet allows auto completion of chunks of the game what would stop people from asking for more and ANet allowing more?
Nothing logically speaking.
But we're already at that point.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really, think on it. Do you actually want to play a game where your wallet plays the game for you instead of you doing the work yourself? Wouldn’t you rather play to earn the ingame rewards than buy them? It might be boring to do it repeatedly but buying progression like you and the OP are suggesting is not good for the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That's the point. OP doesn't seem to want to play the game. OP seems to only want to make bank.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The only reason people do map completion is to make gold selling legendaries. I have done the hearts a lot now and I hate them with every fiber of my being.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > That is untrue. People do content, including map completion, for many reasons. Don’t project your likes and dislikes across the whole player base or even assume your reason is the most common one.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Edit: I’ve done full map completion 9 times so far and not to make Legendaries.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > How is gemstore heart unlock feature remove anything from your experience? Hearts are solo gameplay anyway.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You can read my previous responses which answer your question, which is that it harms the game by causing decreases player retention.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Core Tyria for a long time is not a source of player retention. Hearts weren't even considered a thing at the beginning of the game, but players were to stupid to play events. At this point, LW, new maps and new farms are there for player retention, not lame core tyria experience.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Uh huh.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Of course your opinion goes against the reason why the Devs of various games set up their game stores to sell fluff and cosmetics and not progression. I’m going to trust them and what they’ve leaned over the years and not someone who has to ask another player what the reasons are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Anet already set multiple precedences for selling progression items directly or indirectly. There's just no reason why they can't go even further with heart completion. Hearts are trash content anyway. They have all the bad parts of traditional questing without any of the good parts.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m curious, what games do you know that sell progression in their store, and I’m not talking about leveling boosts or even waypoints, but the ability to buy completion of hours of ingame content.
> > > >
> > > > I'm talking about GW2 and GW2 only here. I never used "other games" argument, you do. And your response above is in no way in relation to the quoted post giving me the impression you are running away from admitting Anet is already selling gameplay skipping stuff.
> > >
> > > No, I’m pointing out that other games (MMOs) don’t sell substantial chunks of ingame content completion in their store, no matter how profitable it might be.
> > >
> > > Why is that? Because it’s bad for the game. The Devs have learned that selling content completion like the OP is asking for hurts player retention. They might sell boosts. They might sell leveling aids. They might even sell convenience such as waypoint unlocks. But to sell hours of content completion with the opening of the wallet isn’t something they do.
> > >
> > > Edit: I’m not talking about games that sell pay to win items. They might so so because... they sell pay to win.
> >
> > They already let us buy hero challenge auto completes with in game currency and they let us buy waypoint unlocks with gems. They are also letting people completely skip the levelling process with gems. Auto completing hearts is logically no different from any of those. They all amount to skipping content one way or another. I'd say the signals here are pretty clear. I think they might be very open to this suggestion now. Hence this thread.
>
> If you buy hero challenges you still had to do ingame content and you weren’t buying from the gemstore, so invalid argument
> The leveling process could be skipped from the very beginning of the game by using crafting and there was at least one player who did so in week one and many who did it after him, so weak argument.
>
> Buying auto complete of chunks of the game is different as it was not in the game previously in any way before this.
The hero challenges established that in principle they're not opposed to allowing players to skip content. The level 80 ticket and the waypoint unlocks show that in principle they're not opposed to selling progress and/or content bypasses in the gem store. Once we establish these two basic principles we can extrapolate them outwards to anything that bears the same characteristics; in this case hearts. Hearts are logically no different from hero challenges or waypoints as they're all just part of base game map completion and more generally the open world levelling format. They were there in the beginning to let people level up by actually questing and exploring rather than just crafting just like the waypoints and the hero challenges and the vistas etc. Whether they sell them for in game currency or with gems is up to ANET but it seems to me that they've clearly indicated that they're not principally opposed to either proposition.
I believe we're arguing over a difference in degree rather than a difference in kind. This is why I've characterized your argument as a "this far but no farther" argument because it seems to me you're drawing an arbitrary line in the sand on hearts.
-
> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:
> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:
> > > > > > @"Velran.1052" said:
> > > > > > "OP doesn't want to play the game", Op wants to play the non-trash aspects of this game instead of doing terrible content that hasn't received updates in 5 years. Essentially playing the better parts of the game, like WvW/SPvP/Raids/Fractals, Instead of terribly boring and grindy content like hearts. And it literally doesn't matter why he wants to make the legendary. Stop the insane slippery slope arguments. You people sound like the people saying the people trying to deny gay marriage because "WHY NOT ALLOW PEDOPHILES DO MARRY CHILDREN TOO?!?".
> > > > >
> > > > > The OP can already skip the content he wishes to skip. He can already focus on the better parts of the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > What he wants is the ability to use his credit card to purchase gems so that he can convert the gems to gold. That option already exists as well.
> > > > >
> > > > > More than anything else what the OP is pushing for is an increased rate of gem to gold conversion for himself. That is not needed. If he wants lots of gold via real money transactions he can just buy more gems for conversion.
> > > >
> > > > I never use my credit card on this game personally. I haven't given them a dime in years except for the expansions and the odd purchase here and there. I almost always convert gold into gems.
> > >
> > > Then you won’t care if the option to purchase world completion gifts never happens.
> > >
> > > As an FYI, purchasing the gift with gold through the exchange pretty much negates any profit that could be made if not resulting in a loss.
> >
> > I would just purchase them with gold. If I ultimately lose money on it then that's my problem.
>
> Well then considering you’re better off just buying the legendaries with buy orders, just get them directly off the TP.
Alright but I still want to be able to pay to skip the hearts.
I don't care if it's gems or in game currency. Makes no difference to me.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"kharmin.7683" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Really, think on it. Do you actually want to play a game where your wallet plays the game for you instead of you doing the work yourself? Wouldn’t you rather play to earn the ingame rewards than buy them? It might be boring to do it repeatedly but buying progression like you and the OP are suggesting is not good for the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > That's the point. OP doesn't seem to want to play the game. OP seems to only want to make bank.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The only reason people do map completion is to make gold selling legendaries. I have done the hearts a lot now and I hate them with every fiber of my being.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > That is untrue. People do content, including map completion, for many reasons. Don’t project your likes and dislikes across the whole player base or even assume your reason is the most common one.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Edit: I’ve done full map completion 9 times so far and not to make Legendaries.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How is gemstore heart unlock feature remove anything from your experience? Hearts are solo gameplay anyway.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You can read my previous responses which answer your question, which is that it harms the game by causing decreases player retention.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Core Tyria for a long time is not a source of player retention. Hearts weren't even considered a thing at the beginning of the game, but players were to stupid to play events. At this point, LW, new maps and new farms are there for player retention, not lame core tyria experience.
> > > > >
> > > > > Uh huh.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course your opinion goes against the reason why the Devs of various games set up their game stores to sell fluff and cosmetics and not progression. I’m going to trust them and what they’ve leaned over the years and not someone who has to ask another player what the reasons are.
> > > >
> > > > Anet already set multiple precedences for selling progression items directly or indirectly. There's just no reason why they can't go even further with heart completion. Hearts are trash content anyway. They have all the bad parts of traditional questing without any of the good parts.
> > >
> > > I’m curious, what games do you know that sell progression in their store, and I’m not talking about leveling boosts or even waypoints, but the ability to buy completion of hours of ingame content.
> >
> > I'm talking about GW2 and GW2 only here. I never used "other games" argument, you do. And your response above is in no way in relation to the quoted post giving me the impression you are running away from admitting Anet is already selling gameplay skipping stuff.
>
> No, I’m pointing out that other games (MMOs) don’t sell substantial chunks of ingame content completion in their store, no matter how profitable it might be.
>
> Why is that? Because it’s bad for the game. The Devs have learned that selling content completion like the OP is asking for hurts player retention. They might sell boosts. They might sell leveling aids. They might even sell convenience such as waypoint unlocks. But to sell hours of content completion with the opening of the wallet isn’t something they do.
>
> Edit: I’m not talking about games that sell pay to win items. They might so so because... they sell pay to win.
They already let us buy hero challenge auto completes with in game currency and they let us buy waypoint unlocks with gems. They are also letting people completely skip the levelling process with gems. Auto completing hearts is logically no different from any of those. They all amount to skipping content one way or another. I'd say the signals here are pretty clear. I think they might be very open to this suggestion now. Hence this thread.
-
> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Ashen.2907" said:
> > > > @"Velran.1052" said:
> > > > "OP doesn't want to play the game", Op wants to play the non-trash aspects of this game instead of doing terrible content that hasn't received updates in 5 years. Essentially playing the better parts of the game, like WvW/SPvP/Raids/Fractals, Instead of terribly boring and grindy content like hearts. And it literally doesn't matter why he wants to make the legendary. Stop the insane slippery slope arguments. You people sound like the people saying the people trying to deny gay marriage because "WHY NOT ALLOW PEDOPHILES DO MARRY CHILDREN TOO?!?".
> > >
> > > The OP can already skip the content he wishes to skip. He can already focus on the better parts of the game.
> > >
> > > What he wants is the ability to use his credit card to purchase gems so that he can convert the gems to gold. That option already exists as well.
> > >
> > > More than anything else what the OP is pushing for is an increased rate of gem to gold conversion for himself. That is not needed. If he wants lots of gold via real money transactions he can just buy more gems for conversion.
> >
> > I never use my credit card on this game personally. I haven't given them a dime in years except for the expansions and the odd purchase here and there. I almost always convert gold into gems.
>
> Then you won’t care if the option to purchase world completion gifts never happens.
>
> As an FYI, purchasing the gift with gold through the exchange pretty much negates any profit that could be made if not resulting in a loss.
I would just purchase them with gold. If I ultimately lose money on it then that's my problem.
-
> @"Menadena.7482" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Rasimir.6239" said:
> > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > >The game selling progression is bad. Players helping each other and trading amongst each other is good.
> > > >
> > > > Except they do, via BLC gamble. This is arbitrary decision why some things can be bought (or gambled for) and others don't. You lose nothing if they sell heart completion via TP, game loses nothing, Anet gains more money.
> > > >
> > > Actually all of us are losing out if there are less people around playing the game. If you buy the gifts of exploration from another player (as in: pay another player to craft your legendary), then that player has spent a considerable number of hours in all the core Tyria maps, contributing to the background noise of making the game feel alive and well for others, joining in events, helping take down monsters, and generally making the world feel alive for other players.
> > >
> > > If on the other hand ANet sells the gift of exploration (or a considerable part of the play time associated with it) directly via the gemstore, then every sale is a loss of a player playing the game and keeping the maps lively. Unlocking all waypoints for world completion is negligible (I once timed it shortly before the release of HoT, on a brand-new ranger with only the equipment from leveling up it took less than 10 hours to unlock every single waypoint for world completion) compared to the time players spend in the open world to finish all the hearts for world completion.
> > >
> > > Every bit of convenience sold that keeps people from playing the game means less people out in the open to play with. I doubt ANet would consider this to be in the best interest for the game.
> >
> > And yet they're selling level 80 boosts which let people skip the levelling process entirely. Also tomes of knowledge are easy to get so no one levels alts even if they don't buy a level 80 boost. The only people doing the core maps are map completion sellers and they don't care if there are other people on the maps.
> >
> > The people who are really playing the game to do open world PvE are grinding metas in the HoT maps or Istan which is why they let new players skip the core zones and go straight to the fun stuff.
> >
> > No one would lose out with this.
>
> Anet has put all new content at 80, why is another topic but that is what they did. Given that I do not have as strong an objection to tomes and the like, just as long as people do not use them on their first character.
>
> The complaint about asking for this for hearts is that using xp boosts is a strawman and not equivalent at all. You and your ilk have admitted this is all about the benjamins so you can make legendaries to sell. So now you are trying to win people over to your side to be proxies to ask for something not in our interest? Do not expect any sympathy.
It's not a strawman argument. I think I've been very careful to try to accurately represent the objections that've been made. I don't think I've misrepresented anyone else here.
My core argument is that there's no logical difference between paying to skip waypoint unlocks or to skip hero challenges or to skip PoIs or Vistas or Hearts or to skip levelling entirely. In principle it amounts to paying to skip content tied to levelling and/or map completion in the core game. If one form is ok then they all must be ok as they're all part of the same map completion/levelling system. The hearts happen to perhaps take more time but other than that they're just another part of map completion and levelling in the core game. I just happen to hate the hearts more than any other part of map completion so I'm currently focused on hearts but that argument could be made for any or all parts of levelling and/or map completion.
It doesn't matter what I plan to use the GoEs for that's a red herring. I could want them just to stack them in my bank and nothing about the core logic would change. It would be nice to get more people on board but that's not the main objective of this thread.
-
> @"Ashen.2907" said:
> > @"Velran.1052" said:
> > "OP doesn't want to play the game", Op wants to play the non-trash aspects of this game instead of doing terrible content that hasn't received updates in 5 years. Essentially playing the better parts of the game, like WvW/SPvP/Raids/Fractals, Instead of terribly boring and grindy content like hearts. And it literally doesn't matter why he wants to make the legendary. Stop the insane slippery slope arguments. You people sound like the people saying the people trying to deny gay marriage because "WHY NOT ALLOW PEDOPHILES DO MARRY CHILDREN TOO?!?".
>
> The OP can already skip the content he wishes to skip. He can already focus on the better parts of the game.
>
> What he wants is the ability to use his credit card to purchase gems so that he can convert the gems to gold. That option already exists as well.
>
> More than anything else what the OP is pushing for is an increased rate of gem to gold conversion for himself. That is not needed. If he wants lots of gold via real money transactions he can just buy more gems for conversion.
I never use my credit card on this game personally. I haven't given them a dime in years except for the expansions and the odd purchase here and there. I almost always convert gold into gems.
-
> @"Zohane.7208" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:
> > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > >
> > > > Really, think on it. Do you actually want to play a game where your wallet plays the game for you instead of you doing the work yourself? Wouldn’t you rather play to earn the ingame rewards than buy them? It might be boring to do it repeatedly but buying progression like you and the OP are suggesting is not good for the game.
> > > >
> > > That's the point. OP doesn't seem to want to play the game. OP seems to only want to make bank.
> > >
> >
> > The only reason people do map completion is to make gold selling legendaries. I have done the hearts a lot now and I hate them with every fiber of my being.
> >
> > I happened to notice that they put in waypoint unlocks and level 80 tickets so I figured they might as well let us skip the hearts too. I'm fine with a cash shop item or an in-game item purchased from some vendor with whatever currency they want. Karma, badges of honor etc.
>
> People *do* do map completion for other purposes than the GoE's. I have over 10 map completions (lost count tbh) and yet only ever did a few legendaries; I think I have about 20 GoE's in my bank. I know several others who like doing map completion just because.
>
> Any gem store (or other) item that lets you skip 75% of map completion should either be more expensive than the estimated value of the GoE's, or it should void the GoE's completely. It should only ever be a convenience for those who like map completion but don't like hearts.
> The other parts of map completion are so easy and fast that they really don't matter. Waypoint unlock really doesn't save you a whole lot of time if you're doing map completion, and to get the hero challenge unlocks you need to actually play wvw to get the tokens, if I'm not mistaken.
>
> Edit: spelling
That's mind boggling to me but whatever.
If you or anyone else actually still enjoy doing hearts then you would still be able to do so. Nothing would change for you. The people who don't like doing them could pay to skip them just like players can still level from 1 to 80 the old fashion way or pay to skip to 80 if they want.
If they want to remove gifts of exploration from map completion and make them attainable some other way or make them purchaseable through the gem store any of those options would work for me as well.
-
> @"kharmin.7683" said:
> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> >
> > Really, think on it. Do you actually want to play a game where your wallet plays the game for you instead of you doing the work yourself? Wouldn’t you rather play to earn the ingame rewards than buy them? It might be boring to do it repeatedly but buying progression like you and the OP are suggesting is not good for the game.
> >
> That's the point. OP doesn't seem to want to play the game. OP seems to only want to make bank.
>
The only reason people do map completion is to make gold selling legendaries. I have done the hearts a lot now and I hate them with every fiber of my being.
I happened to notice that they put in waypoint unlocks and level 80 tickets so I figured they might as well let us skip the hearts too. I'm fine with a cash shop item or an in-game item purchased from some vendor with whatever currency they want. Karma, badges of honor etc.
-
> @"Rasimir.6239" said:
> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > >The game selling progression is bad. Players helping each other and trading amongst each other is good.
> >
> > Except they do, via BLC gamble. This is arbitrary decision why some things can be bought (or gambled for) and others don't. You lose nothing if they sell heart completion via TP, game loses nothing, Anet gains more money.
> >
> Actually all of us are losing out if there are less people around playing the game. If you buy the gifts of exploration from another player (as in: pay another player to craft your legendary), then that player has spent a considerable number of hours in all the core Tyria maps, contributing to the background noise of making the game feel alive and well for others, joining in events, helping take down monsters, and generally making the world feel alive for other players.
>
> If on the other hand ANet sells the gift of exploration (or a considerable part of the play time associated with it) directly via the gemstore, then every sale is a loss of a player playing the game and keeping the maps lively. Unlocking all waypoints for world completion is negligible (I once timed it shortly before the release of HoT, on a brand-new ranger with only the equipment from leveling up it took less than 10 hours to unlock every single waypoint for world completion) compared to the time players spend in the open world to finish all the hearts for world completion.
>
> Every bit of convenience sold that keeps people from playing the game means less people out in the open to play with. I doubt ANet would consider this to be in the best interest for the game.
And yet they're selling level 80 boosts which let people skip the levelling process entirely. Also tomes of knowledge are easy to get so no one levels alts even if they don't buy a level 80 boost. The only people doing the core maps are map completion sellers and they don't care if there are other people on the maps.
The people who are really playing the game to do open world PvE are grinding metas in the HoT maps or Istan which is why they let new players skip the core zones and go straight to the fun stuff.
No one would lose out with this.
-
> @"mindcircus.1506" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"mauried.5608" said:
> > > You can buy map completes from other players, but this means that the other players have to do the hearts, and all this means is that you are paying another player to do the hearts on your behalf.
> > > It doesnt mean that the hearts get skipped, and if this method is viable, then no fix is needed.
> > > So whats the going rate for another player to do map completion on your behalf?
> > >
> >
> > In my experience, it usually hovers between 500g and 800g.
> >
> > What difference does it make if I pay ANET to let me auto complete the hearts of if I pay another player to do them for me? Is it really that important that someone manually completes them?
>
> The difference is that getting someone else to "do it for you" requires you to give your login information to them which is against the TOS.
>
No that's not how the traditional form of the transaction works. Player A gives Player B all the mats they need to finish a legendary minus the GoE and dungeon tokens and whatnot and sometimes things like clovers which they supply themselves Person B then crafts the weapon and sends it back to Player A.
It's possible that some people do it with account sharing but it's not necessary to do so.
-
> @"mauried.5608" said:
> You can buy map completes from other players, but this means that the other players have to do the hearts, and all this means is that you are paying another player to do the hearts on your behalf.
> It doesnt mean that the hearts get skipped, and if this method is viable, then no fix is needed.
> So whats the going rate for another player to do map completion on your behalf?
>
In my experience, it usually hovers between 500g and 800g.
What difference does it make if I pay ANET to let me auto complete the hearts of if I pay another player to do them for me? Is it really that important that someone manually completes them?
-
> @"mauried.5608" said:
> The general thrust of this thread, and its not an uncommon request in this is
> "I want this , and to get this I have to do that, but I dont want to do that."
> Nothing in a MMO is necessary or mandatory, so acquisition of everything and anything is discressionary.
> However, the argument is changed to
> "Anet is forcing me to do this , in order for me to get that."
> Note the use of the word "forcing."
> Some items in the game are deliberately extremely hard to get, simply so that everyone doesnt have one, so dumbing down the acquisition process because people dont like it simply devalues what the final outcome of the exercise is.
>
It's already possible to buy map completes. It's just done informally through players instead of through the cash shop. Sorry to burst your bubble but the GoEs being used to make the Gen 1s have always been for sale.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> The _only_ reason you are doing map completion is to get GoE. You need those to craft Legendaries, not to make Legendaries for your own personal use but to sell and make a profit. After doing several map completions for profit you’re bored with it and you’ve thought of a way to get your gold faster, which is to buy map completion from ANet. Therefore, you are not making this suggestion to help the game but to help your wallet. Since you hope to increase your future income you have no reason to consider arguments against your suggestion which means a real discussion with you about the pros and cons isn’t possible as you’ll not hear the cons. May I suggest you find some other way to make gold rather than asking for ANet to sell game completion in the gem store.
I've considered the arguments you've made against my suggestion and I just think they're without grounds. I don't think the gen 1s will lose any more sentimental value than they already have (which is to say none.) They've always been available for purchase with a credit card. They've never offered any prestige value at all and yet they've always been some of the most highly sought after items in the game. I don't think it would negatively affect the game anymore than auto unlocking waypoints and level 80 boosters or auto completing hero challenges or people buying raid clears (which is to say not at all.) I don't think the fact that I stand to make gold from the idea diminishes its value in any way. I don't think it makes sense to dismiss people's ideas for reasons of "self interest."
Nothing you've said has been a legitimate logical objection in my view. You've just drawn an arbitrary line in the sand and said "this far but no further" but there's no logical grounds for doing so since ANET clearly don't mind people paying for progress whether it be through the cash shop or by purchasing raid clears etc and they don't really seem to care about making the Gen 1s consistent with the Gen 2s or else they would've made them account bound but they haven't. This all seems to add up to a clear signal of values on their part.
As a result I will continue to suggest this idea because I think it's a good one and I think Anet may listen because it's totally in line with things already in the game and it will almost surely generate a large number of gem sales from people who, like me, are tired of doing hearts for map completion.
-
> @"kharmin.7683" said:
> You cannot possibly speak for the majority for only ANet knows the true number of players. Yes, you may share in your opinion with others but to posit that those who don't participate in the forums are disinterested is hyperbole. I know that the majority of my guild doesn't come here and I am confident that they would have an opinion counter to yours.
>
> I wish you luck on your quest (pun intended!). Keep believing that your suggestion is great; I happen to disagree. You are certainly passionate enough about it.
The point was that people who post are most certainly not disinterested parties. It's true I don't have polling data on this but I think it'd be worth trying to see if people buy it. I think they will.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > >> @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > >Then there's Group D : **Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way**.
> > > > > > > >If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then **only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not** but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > /grin.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?
> > > > >
> > > > > A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > You can give your opinion sure but no one with an actual stake in the issue has any reason to consider it which is only fair because by your logic anyone with a direct stake in the outcome is ignored by you for reasons of "self interest."
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> > > >Then there's Group D : **Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way**.
> > > >If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then **only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not**
> > >
> > > Ahhhh, but you already said that only group D (people like me) should have any say in this matter, so whether or not you ignore me is irrelevant as you have no say.
> > >
> > > /grin
> >
> > No I said that that was the logical implication of the basic premise of your argument. I don't personally agree with your premise.
>
> I said that people whose suggestion is to put more gold in their wallet faster have a reason to ignore all damage their suggestion would do to the game, as acknowledging that their suggestion hurts the game would impact their future increased income. There’s a reason why people in real life who would benefit financially from a suggestion to others are limited by laws from doing so. Obviously the game can’t limit suggestions from people who stand to make increased gold from it but that doesn’t mean that your suggestion made to improve your income is a good one.
>
> >I don't personally agree with your premise
>
> Not surprising, since agreeing would decrease the income you hope to make.
I don't agree with the premise because the logical implications of it are patently absurd.
One could take the argument one step further and argue that you yourself should be disqualified from consideration because you care about the game which means you have an interest in the outcome however tangential.
It makes no sense to disregard anyone's opinion purely on the basis of perceived "self interest" because if one applies that principle consistently then no one who has a personal stake in anything can ever be taken seriously on topics that concern those things and that is insanity.
There are no disinterested parties here. Truly disinterested parties don't play the game or participate on the forums. If you play the game you have a stake in the outcome just as I do, however tangential it may be. You're merely arguing about the intangibles of the game like the aesthetics of cash shop items and "how much stuff means to people" or "what's good for the game" whereas I am more focused on the practical things like the process of doing hearts in the game. But we both have an obvious interest in this or else you wouldn't even be here so let's stop pretending like I'm the only one with an interest in this.
My suggestion is a good suggestion because it will sell and people will appreciate it. Hearts are boring and I know from years of playing this game that I'm very much not alone in this opinion. Clearly ANET doesn't have a problem selling progress in principle so I think this would be a fine addition to waypoint unlocks and level 80 boosters. PEOPLE WILL PAY FOR THIS ANET IF YOURE READING.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > >> @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > >Then there's Group D : **Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way**.
> > > > > >If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then **only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not** but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."
> > > > >
> > > > > I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.
> > > > >
> > > > > /grin.
> > > >
> > > > No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?
> > >
> > > A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > You can give your opinion sure but no one with an actual stake in the issue has any reason to consider it which is only fair because by your logic anyone with a direct stake in the outcome is ignored by you for reasons of "self interest."
>
> .
>
> >Then there's Group D : **Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way**.
> >If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then **only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not**
>
> Ahhhh, but you already said that only group D (people like me) should have any say in this matter, so whether or not you ignore me is irrelevant as you have no say.
>
> /grin
No I said that that was the logical implication of the basic premise of your argument. I don't personally agree with your premise.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > >I don't buy them **I sell them**. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > @"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell game completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You don't know what would happen though you're just speculating and you have no data on which to base your speculations and no clear definition of "good for the game."
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clearly your concern has something to do with what we might call the "integrity of the game." But then gen 1s have always been tradeable items that anyone could buy with a credit card and yet they're still some of the most sought after items in the game 5 years after launch so perhaps your values are not widely shared.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here’s a sample of a bad suggestion to make on the forum.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dear ANet. Please change the game by X so I can make gold faster and easier. Kthanxbai.
> > > > >
> > > > > ^ That’s your suggestion in a nutshell.
> > > > >
> > > > > While Gen1 Legendaries are sellable obviously ANet has reconsidered this as Gen2 Legendaries are not. They saw that it wasn’t a good idea for Legendaries to be available as credit card purchases because this cheapened them. Your suggestion would cheapen them further. It is not a good suggestion for the game.
> > > >
> > > > First of all I don't see why that's a formula for a bad suggestion. It could be a very good suggestion that just happens to make someone gold, who cares?
> > > >
> > > > Secondly, they've already been cheapened. They can't get more cheapened. People have been buying them with credit cards since launch. They've never had any "uniqueness" or "legendariness" or prestige value and yet people continue to this very day to pay thousands of gold for them on the trading post. Clearly they can't be that bad for the game if they're still some of the most valuable items in existence. Perhaps not everyone is a do it yourself purist like yourself.
> > > >
> > > > Here's more food for thought: **If they suddenly made gen 2s tradeable people would probably pay thousands of gold for them without a second thought.**
> > >
> > > And well they might. That doesn’t mean that people opening up their wallet to buy a Legendary is a good idea. Since ANet has removed the option of buying Gen2 Legendaries obviously they agree that selling Legendaries on the trading post is not good for the game.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Then why allow gen 1 legendaries to be sold at all? Wouldn't it be more consistent with that line of thinking if they took the gen 1s off the trading post by making them completely account bound?
>
> Yes. However that horse is already out of the barn. It’s too late now as too many people have made and sold Gen1 Legendaries. However that does not mean they should compound their initial error of making Gen1 Legendaries sellable by selling map completion in the gem store to cheapen them even further.
>
>
I honestly don't think anyone will care I think people will keep paying for them like they always have. You might see them as cheapened but who cares? You don't even buy them.
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > >> @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > >Then there's Group D : **Group D neither produces nor buys gen 1 legendaries and so has no stake in the change either way**.
> > > >If we take the "self interest" argument to its logical conclusion then **only Group D should have any say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not** but they shouldn't care either way because they neither produce nor consume gen 1 legendaries. But if they don't care either way then they're not going to be posting in this thread or care what Anet does because it doesn't matter to them. So logically speaking anyone posting in this thread has some interest in the outcome either way which means that anyone who posted in this thread would be disqualified for reasons of "self interest."
> > >
> > > I neither produce nor buy Legendaries. I have no Legendaries at all, either Gen1 or Gen2, even though I’ve played this game since beta. Therefore by your logic and by your words I have the only say in whether Anet sells heart completions or not, and you do not.
> > >
> > > /grin.
> >
> > No that's your logic. But if what you're saying is true then you have no stake in this either way so you have no reason to care what happens because it doesn't effect you at all. So why waste everyone's time arguing about something that doesn't effect you in the slightest?
>
> A suggestion that adversely affects the game I play does affect me. A suggestion which is solely made to put more gold in someone’s pocket and would cheapen Gen1 Legendaries (which then adversely affects the core game) also does affect me. Therefore, I can give my opinion that this is a poorly thought out, self interested suggestion that does not consider any harmful effects and is not good for the game.
>
>
You can give your opinion sure but no one with an actual stake in the issue has any reason to consider it which is only fair because by your logic anyone with a direct stake in the outcome is ignored by you for reasons of "self interest."
-
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > > > >I don't buy them **I sell them**. People who just buy them would most likely benefit from this idea as well as it would likely increase the overall supply of gen 1 legendaries and thus bring their price down over time. The usual going price for a map complete is anywhere from 500-800g last time I checked so as long as the gem exchange cost is less than that then the prices should come down.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > @"SkyFallsInThunder.8257" said:
> > > > > > > > > > > So you wanna pay to skip playing the game. Hm...
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > This particular aspect of it and I would gladly pay to do so.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > More importantly I think a lot of other players would too.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What you actually want is a way to pay for skipping the game in order to make more gold faster by crafting and selling more Legendaries.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sir, your suggestion is completely self interested.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So what? That doesn't mean it's a bad idea. I happen to be on the production side of things rather than the consumption side what difference does it make?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It makes it an idea where you are only considering how to get more gold faster. That makes it a bad reason to suggest as a self interested suggestion like this which is wallet motivated doesn’t care about any harm to the rest of the game as long as the person who suggests it gets richer faster.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That line of thinking is a contingent on values that I simply don't share and that you can't objectively prove.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You may happen to think that people making more legendaries is bad for the game I do not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > EDIT: The point still stands that they're already selling level 80 boosters and waypoint unlock packages so it seems logical to me that they'd be willing to sell heart completion as well. I think a lot of people would be willing to buy them and I think that's ultimately what Arenanet cares about.
> > > > >
> > > > > The problem where the suggestion is purely to make that person more gold faster is that any harm to the game is irrelevant. Harm to the game doesn’t matter to that person because that isn’t a consideration of the suggestion. Yes, it would harm the game for the game to sell game completion in the gem store, no matter how much gold would go into your pocket. (And I doubt you would ever agree, as agreeing would mean less gold for you).
> > > > >
> > > > > Your suggestion was only made to put more gold in your pocket faster and doesn’t care about any harm to the game. I give it two thumbs down. ?? ??
> > > >
> > > > You don't know what would happen though you're just speculating and you have no data on which to base your speculations and no clear definition of "good for the game."
> > > >
> > > > Clearly your concern has something to do with what we might call the "integrity of the game." But then gen 1s have always been tradeable items that anyone could buy with a credit card and yet they're still some of the most sought after items in the game 5 years after launch so perhaps your values are not widely shared.
> > >
> > > Here’s a sample of a bad suggestion to make on the forum.
> > >
> > > Dear ANet. Please change the game by X so I can make gold faster and easier. Kthanxbai.
> > >
> > > ^ That’s your suggestion in a nutshell.
> > >
> > > While Gen1 Legendaries are sellable obviously ANet has reconsidered this as Gen2 Legendaries are not. They saw that it wasn’t a good idea for Legendaries to be available as credit card purchases because this cheapened them. Your suggestion would cheapen them further. It is not a good suggestion for the game.
> >
> > First of all I don't see why that's a formula for a bad suggestion. It could be a very good suggestion that just happens to make someone gold, who cares?
> >
> > Secondly, they've already been cheapened. They can't get more cheapened. People have been buying them with credit cards since launch. They've never had any "uniqueness" or "legendariness" or prestige value and yet people continue to this very day to pay thousands of gold for them on the trading post. Clearly they can't be that bad for the game if they're still some of the most valuable items in existence. Perhaps not everyone is a do it yourself purist like yourself.
> >
> > Here's more food for thought: **If they suddenly made gen 2s tradeable people would probably pay thousands of gold for them without a second thought.**
>
> And well they might. That doesn’t mean that people opening up their wallet to buy a Legendary is a good idea. Since ANet has removed the option of buying Gen2 Legendaries obviously they agree that selling Legendaries on the trading post is not good for the game.
>
>
Then why allow gen 1 legendaries to be sold at all? Wouldn't it be more consistent with that line of thinking if they took the gen 1s off the trading post by making them completely account bound?
This Game Desperately Needs An Item for Skipping Hearts!!!
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion
Posted
> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > @"Israel.7056" said:
> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:
> > > You know OP. You really missed a chance when you made your thread only about hearts. You should have made buying autocomplete of content anything in game. Anything that anyone decides is too boring and tedious to do.
> > >
> > > Want the Yakslapper title? Auto complete of the WvW Legendary backpack? Raid tiers? Achievements? Titles? Anything. Anything and everything. All the person needs to do is declare they are bored, bored, bored with that old content and that there can be no possible harm to the game with that content being autocompleted and they can buy the autocomplete and get the rewards.
> > >
> > > What could possibly go wrong?
> >
> > None of those things would bother me in the slightest but I'm personally focused on hearts. If other people want to put forward the idea of skipping other content then they should. I'd be all for it, give everyone Ultimate Dominator for a price, who cares?
>
> Yes, of course. Make all content in game skippable by purchase. And why should people have to ask? ANet should make all content skippable as desired with purchase if they’re going to do some of them. It’s all good money.
>
> So, what do you think of my RNG content completion idea? I mean, if ANet is going to do this they should go for the big money and let people who want this buy keys to unlock chests with random completions. It’s pretty obvious that RNG pulls in the money so I think this would really be a big deal for them.
That actually sounds pretty cool.