Azure The Heartless.3261

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> It's hard to secure kills in this current meta outside of AT's. You reduced all damage by 33% but did not nerf res utilities to compensate for this. There is barely any counter play to res utilities, as an ele can MIST FORM - > glyph(being completely invincible while ressing someone), glyph - > blink, etc. The only real class that can interact with res utilities is x/p thief due to having no cooldown on a ranged interrupt.

>

> You already used all your resources and cooldowns to down a target, unless you are severely beating the enemy, it's too much to ask(and nearly impossible) to also have the resources and cooldowns left to pressure/interrupt someone using a res utility.

>

> Please make res utilities less used and less common as they are not fun to fight against, add no depth to the game, and are too powerful in their current state. I suggest a 300 second cooldown, as that ensures only 2 resses per game, while still too strong(imo), it would at least be more reasonable to deal with.

I'm not going to comment on res utilities because OP is right, but if we're on the topic of securing kills, can we take a look at Lick Wounds in particular, so that disabling the pet interrupts the skill/puts it on cd? Its kind of silly for the heal to be guaranteed until the pet is defeated, while they also have a channeled heal and a daze at their disposal. In situations where you cant cleave them and have an opponent to deal with, you also can't tap them to interrupt healing.

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Alright, it's time for reaper mains to stop telling me that focus 5 has an animation.

>

> An animation is glint ult. An animation is full counter. An animation is dragon's tooth. These are actual animations a human being can see.

>

> Focus 5 is obscured and nearly impossible to see, has NO ANIMATION, just a tiny little arm cast that no one playing GW2 will ever see. Stop saying it has an animation.

You saying "stop saying it has an animation" doesn't magically mean it has no animation. As long you know that reaper has focus, you should be able to dodge Spinal Shivers if you're paying attention. It's not a mantra. It has a limited situation for casting.

If you wanna suggest a visual assist and put a big green circle above the necro while they cast it, go for it. I don't think it having an animation you personally find difficult to see warrants the damage being reduced.

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > Pick one of those. You cannot have both. Either reaper is slow, but punishes you with death for getting in range of it, or reaper can catch you but won't kill you immediately.

>

> Why not both, but watered down?

>

> Low-medium mobility with medium-high damage is fine imo, current reaper is medium mobility high damage.

>

Any nerf to reaper's mobility as it stands now would qualify it as slow/low mobility, and warrant it doing more damage for the people it does catch.

If you want it to do less damage, you will similarly need to increase its mobility, because every class has a meta viable build right now that can kite reaper.

Even watered down, you cannot have both. whatever nerf you lean into will need to be balanced somewhere else.

> Or nvm I want 0 mobility omega damage because I only play reaper in pve ::pensive::

explain.

The best rank is unranked.

Bronze players **that play at a platinum level** have a certain _je ne sais quoi_ about them that I like though.

> @"Luclinraider.2317" said:

> It just seems like the weakest of the thief specs...both in play seen and in numbers from both PvE and PvP (Crows and Meta Battle). But I fear it will never receive anything but further nerfs to already the weakest spec due to newer players who don't understand how important dodge, block, and reflect are in this game complaining.

> What do you guys think? Is DE just going to be the worst Thief spec forever...especially with 3rd specializations probably starting to be revealed in the next few months, or is there hope?

~~Nice framing.~~

DE(RIFLE DE, at least) is to this game what Sonic is to Super smash brothers.

Relatively weak on paper, but draws the game out longer than they should, impossible to get caught with unless the player makes a plethora of mistakes, and nobody likes fighting it because __its often annoying rather than skillful.__ Skillful DEs exist, but they are often indistinguishable from those that press one of 4 escape buttons when someone is too close to them.

I stan thieves sometimes because I've seen them get nerfbatted frequently (people don't understand they can be outplayed), but let's not pretend that taking potshots at someone from 1200 range while they try to contest a point, only to leave whenever you want when people get near you is fun for anyone but the person playing that build.

Accept the salt that comes with it. you're longbow ranger but more obnoxious on rifle DE. It doesn't deserve any buffs at all.

> @"Shiyo.3578" said:

> Dodge what, the focus 5 with zero animation-

I take issue with this and some quotes below specifically. A lot of these arguments are in bad faith.

Dodging spinal shivers isn't hard. It's about as demanding as dodging true shot. If you're running into lots of asura or something and finding it difficult to watch for a very quick, circular hand wave that looks like something out of a Dr. Strange comic, then set standard models. It takes a whole second to cast.

> Dodge what, the... shroud 3 with zero animation that fears you into shroud 5 into shroud 4?

Infusing Terror has an animation. Reaper 3 causes a green icon to appear on their skill bar along with stability. this is a cue that they have a fear primed, and you should be ready to dodge when you see their fear symbol. They have 6 seconds to use it once they prime it, and usually they use it before or -as- stability is expiring to keep pressure on you.

> There's also only so many dodges, and you need to dodge too much vs reaper. Same issue power rev and holo have - you have to dodge everything as any attack instantly chunks you, but you can only dodge twice.

This isn't the case for reaper. Once infusing terror is used and that 3 second stability window is over, you can CC them as much as you want. they will have to drop out of shroud to access stunbreaks. If they do not drop out of shroud, burn it with attacks.

> @"Bast.7253" said:

> In general though, necro just doesn't need to be the defacto class for this game mode. I'm so sick of seeing them and it's often 4 per match.

Is your problem with reaper, or necro in general?

Are you sure your 4 necro loadout isn't because necro has a lich nuke button?

> @"Bast.7253" said:

> Reaper absolutely needs a damage reduction.

> It also needs a drastic reduction in mobility.

Pick one of those. You cannot have both. Either reaper is slow, but punishes you with death for getting in range of it, or reaper can catch you but won't kill you immediately.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Svez Poizon XD.5268" said:

> > It just get's annoying when you drop necro's health to low numbers then it pop up 20k shroud and last 10 ++ seconds more.

> Wait ... nerf the WHOLE concept of a class because it annoys players in PVP? Is that serious?

You underestimate these forums. I am almost sure that this is the largest motivating force for most nerf requests that happen here. The only thing keeping it in check is that eventually, when people succeed in whining every other class besides the one(s) they main down, they themselves become annoying and are placed on the chopping block afterward.

Hope all these people asking for stealth nerfs are willing to tolerate thief sustain buffs so they can contest you with limited/no stealth if they so desire.

As long as I have the option to play a perfectly viable build without having to rely on stealth to not die, you can do whatever you want to the mechanic.

Dagger storm is currently viable merely by nature of its 3 second evade. the damage/cripple is just icing.

Even if you were to reach to compare it to tornado (which, realistically, you can't do in good faith because Ele differs so vastly from Thief in gameplay), you can still damage an Ele in Tornado form.

Evades with a little pressure is fine. Pressure with very little evade is also fine.

Evades/Stun on top of that would get thief nerfswatted faster than even they are used to. The forum dogpiled pistol whip for this very reason.

There was a ramble post here but now it's gone.

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> For most thieves such a build is not an option because only a thief build with unlimited escapes at any time of the fight is a good thief build to them. And if such a build lacks damage (which is 100% balanced and how it should be!), then the whole class is trash.

I think it's less this and more "If a thief does this and is hit by almost any skill half of its HP bar will magically disappear." Having limited escapes is fine, but all the damage in the world means very little if someone can sneeze on you and knock you over. Building to give up some of that omegadamage for sustain often results in wet noodling, however. Neither extreme is enjoyable. Another look needs to be taken at what duelist should look like for thief, if devs actually want that option on the table.

> @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> I need the variety because deathmatch has killed any interest I have in taking conquest seriously.

I mean

Just nerf some of the rez skills and some of the healing skills so you can only rez when not disturbed/rallied and anything else is a slow bleed. Increase bleedout timer by 20-33%, or have it scale inversely with your tankiness (The more HP/Toughness/Healing power you had when you went down, the faster you bleed when not actively bandaged/being rezzed.)

Most of the people salivating over this play classes that can potentially nuke you from stealth or with very little time to react, but are generally too brittle to finish you quickly without being downed themselves.

WvW is its own beast. It works there because large pools of players can sustain their skirmish/zerg groups and the results of a group being routed usually results in so much damage to them that downstate is basically bypassed anyway. In SPvP this will quickly lead people to be farmed by nuke mesmers, nuke thieves and nuke rangers until they spec as tanky as possible, and we will have bunker wars again.

*Peeks head in thread*

I heard the sound of goalposts moving. Are we still doing... *motions to thread* All of this?

Just in case, if you're going to @ me:

* Thief has the edge on mesmer in conquest. I think mesmer needs -some- buffs, but not to anything close to the extent that gave them their overwhelming presence before their more current gutting.

* Thief is -NOT- good for Deathmatch and is one of the weakest classes for 3v3 or 2v2. You will see very little thief play in the mini seasons.

* Thief should not be INNATELY good at 1v1 (because then it would be broken) but should be allowed to spec for 1v1 at the expense of some/most of its mobility. The more mobility it has, the less presence it should have in a fight (This is why DE should not be allowed to 1v1)

> @"wevh.2903" said:

> U cant 1v1 a thief?

I play thief. I don't think this will have the effect you want.

> @"Affinity.7253" said:

> Oh and I'm not even going to mention lich form. We all know about that.

It's bad but overload earth to put reflects on you and your teammate. use Warhorn 4 in earth for initial reflects against lich, then overload earth for more uptime.

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"AleCenta.2190" said:

> > > @"AliamRationem.5172"

> > You can keep going with excuses or try to learn the game. Watch some streams and you’ll see for yourself if you don’t trust my opinion :)

> >

>

> I'll try to learn the game, thanks! Maybe you can show me how it's done? I'll 1v1 anyone. Good practice!

That's the energy I like to see.

Fight him, y'all. Send me a mail in game. I have a reaper I need to work on, so I'm up to helping you with the matchup. Feel free to blindside me in the arena if you see me.

@"Affinity.7253" Necro/Reaper have an edge against Ele if they are not geared toward condi removal because chill interrupts their element swapping and they can corrupt/remove your stability. The matchup is slanted in their favor. This is the only matchup they have an advantage in, condi mesmer should beat them if you do not feed their Consume Conditions/Spectral walk.

I'm not a master ele/tempest but for what it's worth I suggest trying to make use of tornado when up to force reapers to either disengage or get cced, and making sure you share shocking aura with your friend to stop reapers from cleaving you. Slot the trait that gives you aura on overload. Reapers at most have one stack of stability unless they use one of two elites.

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> Skills like Gunflame which can do easily 10K in a 1200 range on one shot need to have some kind of clear visual clue or the projectile to travel slower.

Gunflame has one of the biggest telegraphs in the game. Warrior goes on fire while holding rifle + kneels = dodge now. I'm worried for this game where people don't consider gunflame telegraphed but want to justify things that you almost cannot react to with "just los".

> @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> Aside from warrior rifle being trash alltogether, true shot is a terrible comparison of what is "fair" considering if they use trapper runes they literally can do it from stealth.

And it has an 8 second cd AND the windup from it looks almost identical to their auto even when they aren't stealthed

> @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > Safe stomps are equally as _unfun_ as fast revives (whether it's skills, traits or just rubbing the dirt).

> > > Remove Safe-stomping first, then we can think of nerfing revives.

> >

> > I personally thought both fast revives and safe stomping was fun.

> >

> > Back in the day, the two lived in consort. The game had more meaning back then...even if there was more damage.

>

> tbh i can see both sides of this mainly because i play a profession most of the time that has no safe stomp or elite execute

>

> I think if utility or elite revives were removed from the game anet would equally need to undo every viable way to currently safe stomp so you are literally forced to stand there knowing you wont be able to get the channeled stomp the first time without something like stealth.

>

> Both sides are frustrating depending on what you play.

>

> I would vote for more elite instant execute options before nerfing safestomps or revives. Thats more creativity and way for them to add buffs to few elite skills that are not just "omgea damage" or "omega suppression"

>

> I would like to use chill to the bone on a down body and promptly and thematically send someone to an icey grave lol

I'm fine with this. I'm against downstate being removed entirely, but I'm definitely up for skills that immediately finish/ the reduction of cds on skills that immediately finish.

If the skill has significant windup and otherwise does little damage (like executioner's scythe). I think making these skills finish one downed enemy on hit could also be worth a look.

"Conquest is boring"

>Gives deathmatch

"Deathmatch is boring"

When rampage did high damage, people complained that while counterplay was possible, it required them to burn too many defenses to be feasible.

The same should apply here and I don't know why people are defending its damage output by claiming that other things (that we can also change) justify it. Give it a **shorter cooldown, but reduce the damage on auto**. I don't care that it only has one stack of stab while rampage has more, it can also do its damage from range.

If they begin to underperform because Lich was hard carrying them, accept that they were not balanced and look into their other elites/traitlines to see what else you can modify.

Only Ranger's downstate 3 and some resurrection skills need to be adjusted for pvp, Imo. Apart from this, it feels like "I have glass build nuke spec and downed opponent, but now I am too squishy to stomp without also downing, so if you can just bypass downstate that would be great"

I love it. Hope this catches the eye of a dev.

That's a lot of changing that won't fix the core issue of condi builds, namely that they time and again allow you to do obscene amounts of damage with very little commitment and can crop up very quickly because of the spamming of hard-to-evade moves.

Conditions doing damage based on proximity to the opponent , or doing high stacks of condition damage on moves that are easy to evade and less/only conditional stacks (like attacking from the flank or behind) on moves that are -not- easy to evade would be better suited for balance.

whichever path Anet chooses to take, if the end result is X class can quickly approach you without telegraph, offload a myriad of conditions on you with moves designed to not be avoidable entirely, then get away with doing nothing/letting clones hit you/tending to their heals/stealthing/laying traps to punish chasing them while you burn cleanses to not die immediately, Then condi builds will be continuously scrutinized and called cheap.

I don't see why a guaranteed, random exotic from a black lion chest that could **possibly** be a precursor for a legendary Gen 1 weapon (and not the actual legendary) is any more PTW/requires more outrage than being able to spend 100 bucks on gems, convert it to gold and **outright buy a legendary.**

Anger against lootboxes is fine when the anger's warranted, but this doesn't seem like the right place for it. Items worth double/triple the price of a gen 1 legendary have dropped from lootboxes for a long time.

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> As a tank or healer it's like 10 mins tops but I refuse to swap off my sam so I just dont pvp lol

I need y'all who say "hard lock the classes to prevent stacking" to understand this is why that suggestion is a bad idea.