ButcherofMalakir.4067

You need ~15 percent bd to be safe with quickness uptimes. But if you have chrono in second subsquad it is 0 because he will help you.

Main diference between laurel trinkets and living season trinkets is that those from living seasons can have any stat combination. Laurel trinkets have only core stats (and diviner in ls4e5 map)

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"shejesa.3712" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> >

> > > I'm not making that mistake. I'm a full advocate of people playing how they want in this game, because that's how it's designed.

> >

> > > OK ... I don't have a problem with that and I don't see why you think it's relevant to shove that in the face of someone who clearly believes in that philosophy either. Maybe you like to think Playing How you Want supports the idea that people are monitored and judged by others. I don't think it is because that's now the game is designed.

> > You've just contradicted yourself.

>

> There isn't any contradiction here. Monitoring and judging how other people play is not playing how you want. It's telling others how you want them to play. Give that a minute to understand that massive difference.

Monitoring and judging is ok since they agreed to this by joining my squad. I told them that if they want to play with me and my squad, they need to folow my rules that include looking at their dps.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"shejesa.3712" said:

> > There's so much wrong with your approach.

>

> No there isn't because the game is designed to work exactly like the approach I'm describing and me and the people I play with, along with lots of others prove that approach all the time by being successful in our instances and not adhering to any philosophy about what builds are best to use. NOTHING you can say will take away the facts. The part that is sad here is that so many players have been talked into this idea about how they have to play the game to succeed in it when it's all a lie. The part that is worst is when people try to cover up these truths with lies about how bad things are if you don't play a certain way that they just happen to coincidentally prescribe to. Gee, how opportunistic of them.

Here is a fact for you. Anyone can play however they want. Just not with me. If they want to join me they will play how I want. Because that is how I want to play.

> @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > > > @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > > > Why would you think they would want to sell something to you once, when they could keep selling it over and over again, earning far much money in the process?. Just get used to it, because that's how the game will be looking from now on.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > (notice, that the same principle works for expacs as well - why whould they ever think of making one, if they could sell a single feature, requiring much less work from them, for way more than a whole expac would cost.)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Because with this model I will not buy any template. I would if they were unlimited and one time purchase.

> > > > >

> > > > > They can't do what you want because this way they'll put something in the gem store that have to be around 20k - 50k gems and no one is going to buy it. If I need to compare what you are suggesting with something already in the game I would give the example with legendaries. Imagine getting all the legendaries at the same time but you need to pay for all of them before that. What they are doing is something close to the legendary crafting systems but with gems, buying little by little until you fully unlock everything on a character and then move to the other one, or build few of them in the same time.

> > > >

> > > > Your point of view is wrong in my opinion. Let me give you real life example of my guild. Around 30 players raid there. Most of them would buy unlimited gear and build templates for 30€. Like 1/3 of them are veterans that smend hundereds of € on this game.

> > > > I have talked with most of those 30 players and

> > > > 1) noone will buy templates with real money

> > > > 2) most of them will not buy templates at all because they are just not enough for them

> > > > 3) most of them said that they will not buy any more gems because they dont want to support this company anymore

> > > >

> > > > They are losing way more by overpricing this system

> > >

> > > Sounds like hurt feelings and disappointment to me. It will pass in time and slowly little by little those players you are talking about WILL buy what they need to enjoy the game like before. Many people were against the Saga... now no one is talking against it and they are just playing it, waiting for the new episode. Many people were against Strike Missions, now no one is talking against them and even Teapot is exited about them. Everything passes, wounds are closing, people learn to just deal with it and adapt to the new or just leave and get replaced with people who can adapt. You can't put final price to the templates because what you are buying right now is bits of information which is being put in to the database of servers of the game. By buying equipment or build storage you are buying spot from this server. Do I need to remind you that the limit of the characters you may have on a single account is around 70? Think about 70 players x 6 equipment slots x 19 items in each with 24 infusions, 6 runes and 4 sigils. In simple math it's 70 x (6 x (19 + 24 + 6 + 4)) = 22 260‬ total items information stored per account... and you want to get that for 30€. And yes... I know most of us won't have 70 characters fully equipped with items and infusions and runes and sigils and that'why don't see the reason of the complaining... just buy what you need and deal with it. If I have to think of similar example of what you are suggesting I can think of unlimited characters pack. For just 30€ you can have all the 70 characters you want but don't see people complaining about the buying a character from the gem store option.

> >

> > Those players used to buy gems every month and for past months they stoped. The reason is purely logical. They enjoyed the game and knew that they will keep playing. Since path of fire we are not sure if we quit next relese because we know that every relese anet made since that was not enjoyable. We would buy QoL improvement if it was worth it. In fact we were excited about templates and wanted to buy them. Again anet managed to take something we actualy wanted to buy and completely destroy it.

> > We wanted unlimited templates and we got limited loadouts

> > There would be no storage needed if everything was stored localyon computer. Who plays each day on diferent computer?

> > Anet promised that templates are there so you can have perfect build for any activity. This is just false since there is no way there are enough slots for even one gamemode.

> > I am a student and I could write better addon for this then anet did. If not better then at least faster.

> > Yes, I will buy those templates but not for real life money. I will just gather gold and buy those 1 at a time. If you needed to buy whole system at once then i would consider buying it for money since it would take way too long to farm.

> >

> > Equipment storage is great and ceetainly worth the price. At least for someone. But I feel like templates and storage should be separated since storage is the reason why temp..., sorry loadouts, are so limited.

>

> The reason your guild mates left and stopped buying from the gem store is because they got bored from the game or burnedout from it. There is no other reason. If you and they enjoy the game that much you won't mind buying 29100 gems to unlock all things on 9 characters + the 24 account build storages. It will cost you €363.75 or 10739 gold to do so.

We are not burned out. We love playing the game. Sadly new releses are worse in our opinion then they used to be because they are either locked behind enormous paywall or timegate.

And for your info €363 is almost a month wage for lesser paid jobs here. Dont know how a student would be able to afford that.

We are raiders, we used to do fractals but new fractals are dissapointing since they are easier and dont reward skilled players. Last raid was also quite easy. Build templates are ok but only for very casual players.

We see a trend that each relese is worse then the last one. Updates take longer and there is no roadmap. We dont want to invest ingame if we dont know if we will play next month. We are still playing, just not paying.

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"Seteruss.4058" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > >

> > > > Anet promised that templates are there so you can have perfect build for any activity. This is just false since there is no way there are enough slots for even one gamemode.

> > > That's a bit hyperbolic. To say it is false? Certainly, the raiding community has issues with the official templates, but to say that there are not enough slots for one game mode?

> > >

> >

> > Sorry but not. They are not enough. Ask chronos about that or guardians. They can't adjust toughness the way they used to..

>

> That wasn't my point. The part I quoted seemed to indicate that Anet was lying because templates weren't enough for just one game mode. I'm certain that the templates are plenty enough for open world and probably fractals, too.

Maybe for some but they are definitely not enough for raids, fractals and wvw not to mention all together. They used raids in that hype video about templates so that was a lie.

> @"Knighthonor.4061" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > >

> > > > Anet promised that templates are there so you can have perfect build for any activity. This is just false since there is no way there are enough slots for even one gamemode.

> > > That's a bit hyperbolic. To say it is false? Certainly, the raiding community has issues with the official templates, but to say that there are not enough slots for one game mode?

> > >

> >

> > My mesmer had 31 diferent gear templates. And weapon variations/1 toughness infusion was swaped by hand.

>

> ok so whats the problem? For those that play without third party software you would have to change all that by hand and more. Now you can load gear you want and swap out the rest, saving you as many clicks.

Because I USED THAT 3RD PARTY SOFTWARE and basicaly every raider I ever encountered did. That doesnt matter. Anets templates dont work for me so I will not use them (and so I will not pay them). If they just took arc templates and improve the looks I would buy them and my guildmates too. Anet missed why templates are required and what are the main selling points and target audiance. I am not even supriced

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

>

> > Anet promised that templates are there so you can have perfect build for any activity. This is just false since there is no way there are enough slots for even one gamemode.

> That's a bit hyperbolic. To say it is false? Certainly, the raiding community has issues with the official templates, but to say that there are not enough slots for one game mode?

>

My mesmer had 31 diferent gear templates. And weapon variations/1 toughness infusion was swaped by hand.

> @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > > Why would you think they would want to sell something to you once, when they could keep selling it over and over again, earning far much money in the process?. Just get used to it, because that's how the game will be looking from now on.

> > > > >

> > > > > (notice, that the same principle works for expacs as well - why whould they ever think of making one, if they could sell a single feature, requiring much less work from them, for way more than a whole expac would cost.)

> > > >

> > > > Because with this model I will not buy any template. I would if they were unlimited and one time purchase.

> > >

> > > They can't do what you want because this way they'll put something in the gem store that have to be around 20k - 50k gems and no one is going to buy it. If I need to compare what you are suggesting with something already in the game I would give the example with legendaries. Imagine getting all the legendaries at the same time but you need to pay for all of them before that. What they are doing is something close to the legendary crafting systems but with gems, buying little by little until you fully unlock everything on a character and then move to the other one, or build few of them in the same time.

> >

> > Your point of view is wrong in my opinion. Let me give you real life example of my guild. Around 30 players raid there. Most of them would buy unlimited gear and build templates for 30€. Like 1/3 of them are veterans that smend hundereds of € on this game.

> > I have talked with most of those 30 players and

> > 1) noone will buy templates with real money

> > 2) most of them will not buy templates at all because they are just not enough for them

> > 3) most of them said that they will not buy any more gems because they dont want to support this company anymore

> >

> > They are losing way more by overpricing this system

>

> Sounds like hurt feelings and disappointment to me. It will pass in time and slowly little by little those players you are talking about WILL buy what they need to enjoy the game like before. Many people were against the Saga... now no one is talking against it and they are just playing it, waiting for the new episode. Many people were against Strike Missions, now no one is talking against them and even Teapot is exited about them. Everything passes, wounds are closing, people learn to just deal with it and adapt to the new or just leave and get replaced with people who can adapt. You can't put final price to the templates because what you are buying right now is bits of information which is being put in to the database of servers of the game. By buying equipment or build storage you are buying spot from this server. Do I need to remind you that the limit of the characters you may have on a single account is around 70? Think about 70 players x 6 equipment slots x 19 items in each with 24 infusions, 6 runes and 4 sigils. In simple math it's 70 x (6 x (19 + 24 + 6 + 4)) = 22 260‬ total items information stored per account... and you want to get that for 30€. And yes... I know most of us won't have 70 characters fully equipped with items and infusions and runes and sigils and that'why don't see the reason of the complaining... just buy what you need and deal with it. If I have to think of similar example of what you are suggesting I can think of unlimited characters pack. For just 30€ you can have all the 70 characters you want but don't see people complaining about the buying a character from the gem store option.

Those players used to buy gems every month and for past months they stoped. The reason is purely logical. They enjoyed the game and knew that they will keep playing. Since path of fire we are not sure if we quit next relese because we know that every relese anet made since that was not enjoyable. We would buy QoL improvement if it was worth it. In fact we were excited about templates and wanted to buy them. Again anet managed to take something we actualy wanted to buy and completely destroy it.

We wanted unlimited templates and we got limited loadouts

There would be no storage needed if everything was stored localyon computer. Who plays each day on diferent computer?

Anet promised that templates are there so you can have perfect build for any activity. This is just false since there is no way there are enough slots for even one gamemode.

I am a student and I could write better addon for this then anet did. If not better then at least faster.

Yes, I will buy those templates but not for real life money. I will just gather gold and buy those 1 at a time. If you needed to buy whole system at once then i would consider buying it for money since it would take way too long to farm.

Equipment storage is great and ceetainly worth the price. At least for someone. But I feel like templates and storage should be separated since storage is the reason why temp..., sorry loadouts, are so limited.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"knite.1542" said:

> > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > Most enjoy pushing their class to the max. Why should this group take in a player who performs far below this standard?

> >

> > I guess the argument is that as long as you can get the kill, you should accept any and everyone. And if you don't do that, you are toxic.

>

> Put it this way ... what is the difference in loot if you kill something in 3 minutes or 5? This game is not designed to reward exceptional performance anymore than marginal performance. It's black and white ... you either succeed or you don't. How you do that it up to you. But make no mistake, how you do that can have a negative or positive impact on you, depending on how you view the game and if your views are aligned to how the game is designed.

Omg. Some basic math. If you clear in 3 minutes you get 1,66* more loot then if you clear in 5.

As I have explained multiple times, for those players that chpse to use restrictions, there is no negative impact. And if there is then it is smaller that taking inexpirianced player in.

The game is designed with many modifires that improves play that stack which means performance goes up exponentionaly and not lineary. This means it is rewarding great performances.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> A smaller pool of applicants is the logical result of imposing player-made restrictions when forming a team ... so it does make sense.

>

> Here is why DPS meters are not good ... because they give a false sense of what a player is capable of doing. They are toxic because people use them in this way to filter people. The range of DPS for most instance content is so wide that you could literally short-man most of them, so don't pull that "not 1%, but probably 10%" stuff ... there is a SIGNIFICANT margin of DPS range that can win most encounters ... and it only gets easier to accomplish as more good gear gets released.

Smaller pool of aplicants doesnt matter. It only increse the time you need to w8 for them. That is not an issue because you can do something totaly diferent and fun while waiting. For example I am painting/glueing miniatures. I could take bad players to raid instead but that wouldnt be fun.

> @"knite.1542" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > Most enjoy pushing their class to the max. Why should this group take in a player who performs far below this standard?

>

> I guess the argument is that as long as you can get the kill, you should accept any and everyone. And if you don't do that, you are toxic.

If that is true than that is the dumbest thing I heared in a while. Would be ok if there was could and not should.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"shejesa.3712" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > That 'something' is the knowledge of the game accessible to us. It's natural that you can accept a small kid to get his diaper messy, but once you know how to sit on a toilet you're expected to do it.

> > > > > > > > > > It's basically the same thing, when you know how you can deal dps you're expected to deal dps. it's simple as that. If you don't want to deal dps, don't join teams that are optimized, make your own 'chill run no elitism' and keep failing on skovald

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > That's STILL a player-determined requirement. The fact is that the game is designed so that you DON'T need that knowledge to the extent that a DPS meter is necessary to filter people out. The question here has NEVER been about if you CAN, you SHOULD. It's about recognizing the game doesn't not require it for success.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Either way, I think it's amusing at this point because the more people insist on these high levels of performance from the playerbase, the more they exclude people they can play with ... players aren't stupid and if you don't want them in your team because they don't do what you think they should (even when it's not necessary), that only hurts you, not them.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > It doesnt hurt the side that want certain level of skill at all. Looks to me like you are not that type of player so you dont understand the mentality behind that.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes it does, because you artificially restrict who you play with based on a player-imposed set of rules.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Only if you can't find decent players.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > And well decent players usually can find a team.

> > > > >

> > > > > No, that still hurts those players, even if they can find decent players because that pool of players they can pull from is artificially diminished. I mean, no one should be trying to make a sensible statement that reducing people they can play with (artificially or not) is good ... but here you are?

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Your first mistake is to consider the entire playerbase as equal in terms of skill. If we were to take a reasonable real life example of say a job opening: you don't look for just ANY person to fill that spot and the more challenging the position, the harsher and restricting the search criteria in general.

> > >

> > > No, that is YOUR mistake to look at an opening in a raid team like a job. See, that's why I don't have these problems... My view of the game is that I play because of fun .. or more accurately, my definition of fun isn't about being in the top 1% DPS. I have found other people with the same philosophy ... and because we have this healthy view AND the game is designed to support that philosophy ... these aren't problems for us.

> > >

> > > You can play how you want ... and if you're view of doing that is FUN = being in the top 1% DPS. That's fine. Just be aware that you are in small company relative to people that don't think that way. This conversation would be different if GW2 was like lots of other games where high performance is needed for success and certainly, there are some places in GW2 that's true ... but the majority of the game does not prescribe to that idea so the baggage people bring with them from those other games doesn't help them in this game.

> > >

> > > I see little value in rehashing arguments I had with metapushers from 6 years ago; they were wrong then and they are wrong now. The fact is that this game is not designed to exclude people who play how they want ... and that includes people that DO NOT want to be in the 1% club. That's why you can carry people and succeed in most cases ... because that's the intention of the game.

> >

> > To be fair, game is designed with our philosophy too because commander can kick anyone without any reason. His/hers squad so his/hers rules.

> > In fractals it is diferent but multiple players can kick anyone if they dont want him there. That works for both sides.

>

> That doesn't make sense ... kicking people is a basic function of the game, regardless of whatever philosophy you adhere to. You can kick someone for any reason you want. Whatever philosophy you have doesn't matter. So the ability to kick doesn't seem to me to favour any philosophy.

>

> What I do know is that the threshold for success is low and deficiencies can be overcome with a team approach, so the game design does support the idea people can play how they want and be successful, including people that don't care about performance.

But if you are a commander you can set any requirements YOU want. If anyone dont match those you can freely kick him/her. If someone wants pink armor thats ok. If someone else want 5000KP and 1000g donation that is also ok. If you dont match requirements then it is up to COMMANDER to decide if he wants you there. End of story

> @"Gopaka.7839" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > Why would you think they would want to sell something to you once, when they could keep selling it over and over again, earning far much money in the process?. Just get used to it, because that's how the game will be looking from now on.

> > >

> > > (notice, that the same principle works for expacs as well - why whould they ever think of making one, if they could sell a single feature, requiring much less work from them, for way more than a whole expac would cost.)

> >

> > Because with this model I will not buy any template. I would if they were unlimited and one time purchase.

>

> They can't do what you want because this way they'll put something in the gem store that have to be around 20k - 50k gems and no one is going to buy it. If I need to compare what you are suggesting with something already in the game I would give the example with legendaries. Imagine getting all the legendaries at the same time but you need to pay for all of them before that. What they are doing is something close to the legendary crafting systems but with gems, buying little by little until you fully unlock everything on a character and then move to the other one, or build few of them in the same time.

Your point of view is wrong in my opinion. Let me give you real life example of my guild. Around 30 players raid there. Most of them would buy unlimited gear and build templates for 30€. Like 1/3 of them are veterans that smend hundereds of € on this game.

I have talked with most of those 30 players and

1) noone will buy templates with real money

2) most of them will not buy templates at all because they are just not enough for them

3) most of them said that they will not buy any more gems because they dont want to support this company anymore

They are losing way more by overpricing this system

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > > @"shejesa.3712" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That 'something' is the knowledge of the game accessible to us. It's natural that you can accept a small kid to get his diaper messy, but once you know how to sit on a toilet you're expected to do it.

> > > > > > > > It's basically the same thing, when you know how you can deal dps you're expected to deal dps. it's simple as that. If you don't want to deal dps, don't join teams that are optimized, make your own 'chill run no elitism' and keep failing on skovald

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That's STILL a player-determined requirement. The fact is that the game is designed so that you DON'T need that knowledge to the extent that a DPS meter is necessary to filter people out. The question here has NEVER been about if you CAN, you SHOULD. It's about recognizing the game doesn't not require it for success.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Either way, I think it's amusing at this point because the more people insist on these high levels of performance from the playerbase, the more they exclude people they can play with ... players aren't stupid and if you don't want them in your team because they don't do what you think they should (even when it's not necessary), that only hurts you, not them.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It doesnt hurt the side that want certain level of skill at all. Looks to me like you are not that type of player so you dont understand the mentality behind that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes it does, because you artificially restrict who you play with based on a player-imposed set of rules.

> > > >

> > > > Only if you can't find decent players.

> > > >

> > > > And well decent players usually can find a team.

> > >

> > > No, that still hurts those players, even if they can find decent players because that pool of players they can pull from is artificially diminished. I mean, no one should be trying to make a sensible statement that reducing people they can play with (artificially or not) is good ... but here you are?

> > >

> >

> > Your first mistake is to consider the entire playerbase as equal in terms of skill. If we were to take a reasonable real life example of say a job opening: you don't look for just ANY person to fill that spot and the more challenging the position, the harsher and restricting the search criteria in general.

>

> No, that is YOUR mistake to look at an opening in a raid team like a job. See, that's why I don't have these problems... My view of the game is that I play because of fun .. or more accurately, my definition of fun isn't about being in the top 1% DPS. I have found other people with the same philosophy ... and because we have this healthy view AND the game is designed to support that philosophy ... these aren't problems for us.

>

> You can play how you want ... and if you're view of doing that is FUN = being in the top 1% DPS. That's fine. Just be aware that you are in small company relative to people that don't think that way. This conversation would be different if GW2 was like lots of other games where high performance is needed for success and certainly, there are some places in GW2 that's true ... but the majority of the game does not prescribe to that idea so the baggage people bring with them from those other games doesn't help them in this game.

>

> I see little value in rehashing arguments I had with metapushers from 6 years ago; they were wrong then and they are wrong now. The fact is that this game is not designed to exclude people who play how they want ... and that includes people that DO NOT want to be in the 1% club. That's why you can carry people and succeed in most cases ... because that's the intention of the game.

To be fair, game is designed with our philosophy too because commander can kick anyone without any reason. His/hers squad so his/hers rules.

In fractals it is diferent but multiple players can kick anyone if they dont want him there. That works for both sides.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Why would you think they would want to sell something to you once, when they could keep selling it over and over again, earning far much money in the process?. Just get used to it, because that's how the game will be looking from now on.

>

> (notice, that the same principle works for expacs as well - why whould they ever think of making one, if they could sell a single feature, requiring much less work from them, for way more than a whole expac would cost.)

Because with this model I will not buy any template. I would if they were unlimited and one time purchase.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"shejesa.3712" said:

> > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> > > >

> > > > > and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

> > > >

> > > > That 'something' is the knowledge of the game accessible to us. It's natural that you can accept a small kid to get his diaper messy, but once you know how to sit on a toilet you're expected to do it.

> > > > It's basically the same thing, when you know how you can deal dps you're expected to deal dps. it's simple as that. If you don't want to deal dps, don't join teams that are optimized, make your own 'chill run no elitism' and keep failing on skovald

> > > >

> > > That's STILL a player-determined requirement. The fact is that the game is designed so that you DON'T need that knowledge to the extent that a DPS meter is necessary to filter people out. The question here has NEVER been about if you CAN, you SHOULD. It's about recognizing the game doesn't not require it for success.

> > >

> > > Either way, I think it's amusing at this point because the more people insist on these high levels of performance from the playerbase, the more they exclude people they can play with ... players aren't stupid and if you don't want them in your team because they don't do what you think they should (even when it's not necessary), that only hurts you, not them.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > It doesnt hurt the side that want certain level of skill at all. Looks to me like you are not that type of player so you dont understand the mentality behind that.

>

> Yes it does, because you artificially restrict who you play with based on a player-imposed set of rules.

You can either w8 30 minutes doing something else (and having fun) and then having fun in raid for 5 minutes or you can kill the boss in 30 minutes without any fun.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"shejesa.3712" said:

> > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said:

> >

> > > and this is why dps meters get a bad name, certain users think big numbers and fast kills/spamming rotations/wearing zerg gear is more important than interesting gameplay. They also forget people have been happily clearing fractals without thgis kind of attitude. Something has gradually changed, and its not those people happily clearing years ago.

> >

> > That 'something' is the knowledge of the game accessible to us. It's natural that you can accept a small kid to get his diaper messy, but once you know how to sit on a toilet you're expected to do it.

> > It's basically the same thing, when you know how you can deal dps you're expected to deal dps. it's simple as that. If you don't want to deal dps, don't join teams that are optimized, make your own 'chill run no elitism' and keep failing on skovald

> >

> That's STILL a player-determined requirement. The fact is that the game is designed so that you DON'T need that knowledge to the extent that a DPS meter is necessary to filter people out. The question here has NEVER been about if you CAN, you SHOULD. It's about recognizing the game doesn't not require it for success.

>

> Either way, I think it's amusing at this point because the more people insist on these high levels of performance from the playerbase, the more they exclude people they can play with ... players aren't stupid and if you don't want them in your team because they don't do what you think they should (even when it's not necessary), that only hurts you, not them.

>

>

It doesnt hurt the side that want certain level of skill at all. Looks to me like you are not that type of player so you dont understand the mentality behind that.

> @"Aaralyna.3104" said:

> Yes she will have to do it over, probably from the beginning. The thing with Dragonstand is that the map is often full if theres an organised squad with a lfg (you are not even guaranteed you end up in same map after map reset even when organised in a squad and being on a same map (one that closes)). If she somehow ends up in a map thats not full and is halfway the meta or at the end then she ofcourse does not have to do the full meta from the beginning but its not something you can predict.

>

> I am not sure how long it takes for the completed meta map to close otherwise she could get in your map when all meta is finished (granted other players left and made room and you are in the map so she can join in your map version and is faster than the map close timer).

You cannot get to finished map

Hello guys,

today me and my girlfriend participated in dragonstand. She wanted to get the wyvern but dced short after we finished and she cannot get back to the map. Does this mean she has to do the meta from the beggining to get it? Thanks

> @"kharmin.7683" said:

> You already have unlimited use of the ones that will be provided next week when they are released. I don't understand the point here?

Also they will not be unlimited.

> @"Ashantara.8731" said:

> > @"Dante.1508" said:

> > Can we use the PvP and WVW slots as PvE slots if we don't do the other content?

>

> Yes.

>

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > Gear changes between wvw and pve for sure. Or atleast it did a year ago when I wad crafting my legendary

> >

> > Edit: looks like I was mistaken.

>

> Well, at least you admit your mistake after trying repeatedly to convince people you are right...

>

> Best summary so far:

>

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > The only actual Templates are the account wide ones, not the 3+3 character ones, which are still just Loadouts.

> > The new character Loadouts, just as right now with PvE, PvP and WvW Loadouts automatically save any changes, so what you are describing is precisely what you won't be able to do, except if you keep a file around with chatcodes to constantly spam in chat, load into your Account templates, load into your character Template, to then delete again, to circumvent the whole unnecessary monetisation in the first place.

> > Aside from when it comes to Gear Templates, which in turn are going to be awful value for anyone with Legendary Gear as they wont get any value out of them like saving inventory space, but are must buys for those especially since Legendaries are a special chore to swap.

> >

> > Can the people defending these Anet Templates at least watch the stream from Anet showcasing them, to actually understand how clunky and bad they are, before highlighting features as defense of them which are precisely lacking?

> >

> > I can say for myself, the more I looked into how they work (or don't work), the more disappointed I was with them. Especially from the viewpoint of a hardcore player, every little aspect of them is pretty much the worst case scenario.

> > Not only do they colossally fail as template system in almost every way concerning what hardcore players actually need in such a system (aside from the build linking, which is cool), it's also monetised in a way we actually joked about years ago with how someone like EA would monetise such a system, selling single Template/Loadout slots for 5€ and up, which is highly disappointing to see become a reality from Anet to say the least, and probably not what most people had in mind when they said that they wouldn't mind if Anet charged for them a bit, to justify their development.

>

> :+1:

Well. Truth is truth. Maybe it was a feature on arc, maybe it was luck that I was on right set or maybe I swaped so fast I dont remember. Still I think that this system is nowhere near enough compared to what arc provided.

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

> > > @"Operator.2590" said:

> > > > @"Roquen.5406" said:

> > > > Oh...so it's worse than I thought...they are taking away what we have, giving it back to us and making us pay for three additional slots max. Meh oh well.

> > >

> > > They’re adding a feature to the game that was never there to begin with, actually—which you have the option of buying more of, if you need it.

> >

> > Actualy, if you play wvw, pvp and pve you already have 3 gear slots right? Well, now you have only 2 :D

>

> Um no.

>

> Gear never changed automatically between pve/wvw... nor pvp.

> Only traits changed

Gear changes between wvw and pve for sure. Or atleast it did a year ago when I wad crafting my legendary

Edit: looks like I was mistaken.

> @"Airdive.2613" said:

> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:

>

> > I see only 2 equipment templates

>

> Which is twice the amount of equipment templates we currently have.

Again. If you play wvw, pvp and pve you now have 3. After the patch you will not have separate templates in those modes. You will have only 2

> @"Thorstienn.1642" said:

> > @"Roquen.5406" said:

> > > @"Thorstienn.1642" said:

> > > 1 thing I'll add as it seems people ignore this: its 3 "saved" templates, so it is a small upgrade to the 3 builds we currently have, because you can swap around stuff for testing, then 1 click later go back to what you had it saved as. I know that I will like that feature in PvP for sure.

> > >

> > > The rest of the discussion I leave to those that care.

> >

> > You had unlimited before...now you have three...and if you want 1 for each mode, you have to pay for an additional three just have to three...otherwise everytime you swap between modes you have to recreate templates or just manually click and drag.

>

> What?

> I have 3 now; 1 in each mode. After the change I will have 3 (which I can use for whatever, but let's just say I use 1 for each mode again).

> Example,

> Currently, in PvE I use a Core Bannerslave for fractals. I got to do some story mode. I manually change all my traits etc. I play. I go back to fractals, I manually change all my traits etc again.

>

> After change, in PvE I use a Core Bannerslave for fractals and save as my template. I got to do some story mode. I manually change all my traits etc. I play. I go back to fractals, I select my saved template and im good to go.

>

Each of your characters will have access to two Equipment Template tabs for free, and the first will be automatically populated with an Equipment Template containing the gear your character was wearing when you last logged in. You can purchase additional Equipment Template tabs from the Gem Store.

I see only 2 equipment templates