ButcherofMalakir.4067
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Posts posted by ButcherofMalakir.4067
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> @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > > > @"MoonT.6845" said:
> > > > > > > > > @"Lottie.5370" said:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pretty much everybody that plays WvW
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
> > > > > > > Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand
> > > > >
> > > > > hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.
> > > > > I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.
> > > > >
> > > > > Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message.
> > > > > "Yes we want this feature"
> > > > > Anet gives feature
> > > > > "No we dont want it"
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.
> > > >
> > > > If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.
> > > >
> > > > Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.
> > >
> > > I mean i can agree with you to some extent here
> > > If it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.
> > >
> > > Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.
> > >
> > > Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.
> > >
> > > In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.
> > > Mounts = Mount skins
> > > Masteries = Require x packs
> > > etc etc
> > >
> > > How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.
> >
> > And that is kinda the problem. Most casual players will not pay because standard version is enough for them and more hardcore players will not pay because this system is focused on casuals. They missed free money by adding gear templates.
>
> Now that i 100% do agree on because this is not the first or second time that this has happened.
> See new charr chair that dont fit charr (no communication on if this was a mistake, or if it will be fixed, or if there will be more attention going into the future)
> See forum suggestions for a motor cycle -ish roller mount skin
> See multiple suggestions for specific parts of outfits to be sold as stand alone skins
>
> All of which were missed opportunities
> It boils down to anets biggest weakness the lack of cross communication. Be it vets or casuals the communication level has always been lacking with arenanet and its playerbase. This most recent balance patch is proof of that as well.
>
> >
> > Like, i know players that will write personal bot that willdo the manual part of switching for them because official templates doesnt do what they want. Anet will not get money from those players. And if they find out and ban them they will not get money either.
>
> Sadly i feel like most vets have already invested enough money where if you dont insert another dime for the rest of gw2's life time anet will have made enough off of you when it comes down to a single person. I know there are some people who have put thousands and i mean thousands of dollars into this game. Telling anet you wont pay now wont matter to them sadly. They already made several times more off a player who has done this than they would from the average player.
>
> Still i think simply arguing for the use of arc and throwing insults at anets choices is not the way to get anet to see and or change the system to fit both casuals and vets who require tons on tons of build slots.
>
>
They could have made same system as arkh and sell it for 3000 gems. They decided to do some fancy stuff that is usless for casual comunity and almost usless for hardcore community (gear storage) and I dont know why. I guess they thought that their product must be diferent then arc but they didnt understand what are the good parts of arc.
Amd many players I play with only bought qol updates for real money. Rest was for gold.
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> @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > > > @"MoonT.6845" said:
> > > > > > > @"Lottie.5370" said:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pretty much everybody that plays WvW
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
> > > > > Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.
> > > > >
> > > > > I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.
> > > >
> > > > I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand
> > >
> > > hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.
> > > I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.
> > >
> > > Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.
> > >
> > > Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message.
> > > "Yes we want this feature"
> > > Anet gives feature
> > > "No we dont want it"
> > >
> >
> > Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.
> >
> > If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.
> >
> > Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.
>
> I mean i can agree with you to some extent here
> If it does not fit your needs dont buy it. Which is exactly what ive been telling people. You are not being forced to pay. Yes you will lose some QoL from no longer having access to Arc Templates however you knew from the start that there could be a possibility that one day you might not be able to keep using a 3rd party addon when gw2 has always been super picky about 3rd party software.
>
> Even if you didn't know about the agreement you knew that at any point in time anet could potentially say "this is no longer allowed" or that some day there might be a patch that "breaks it for good" or that "its creator might stop updating it" thats always the risk with 3rd party addons to games because they are not managed by the content creators of the game there is always a chance that they might not last.
>
> Now you could argue with my last situation "But some one else could simply take on the arc title and continue to update it" Yes this could happen people have become very smart. This is likely could be the exact reason anet wants to keep everything server side now.
>
> In the end im sorry the system does not fit your needs specifically as for its current design. But surely you understand it makes no sense for anet to take a loss on investment on something tons of people asked for even if this version was not the idea many had in mind due to how arc worked. Also that most game features are used to make money in some way or fashion this should not be a shock to anyone even more so for a game that charges no monthly fee.
> Mounts = Mount skins
> Masteries = Require x packs
> etc etc
>
> How ever i still think if it does not fit you needs then dont pay. I dont even plan to pay for this system. Im almost sure what they give fore free will be enough for me.
And that is kinda the problem. Most casual players will not pay because standard version is enough for them and more hardcore players will not pay because this system is focused on casuals. They missed free money by adding gear templates.
Like, i know players that will write personal bot that willdo the manual part of switching for them because official templates doesnt do what they want. Anet will not get money from those players. And if they find out and ban them they will not get money either.
-
> @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > > > @"MoonT.6845" said:
> > > > > @"Lottie.5370" said:
> > > >
> > > > > Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??
> > > >
> > > > Pretty much everybody that plays WvW
> > > >
> > > > I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.
> > >
> > > If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
> > > Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.
> > >
> > > I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.
> >
> > I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand
>
> hate to say it but you are of the minority which is clearly what anet didnt aim at with this feature.
> I suggest you do the following and start coming up with good reasons from a business standpoint as to why they should continue to allow arc templates.
>
> Being in the smaller % of people this wont benefit you need to show with good reason why something that basically is going to steal money after development from anet why that tool should still be allowed. While many people myself included doe not plan to buy extra slots there will be some people who without a doubt do. Think about those people just going oh i can get this for free which waste anets work and time.
>
> Also think about what this means for future features that players have asked for. Right now some people are sending anet a pretty misguided message.
> "Yes we want this feature"
> Anet gives feature
> "No we dont want it"
>
Me and every player I know wanted build templates. In our mind build is traits+gear. We get traittemplates which are great and I am 100 percent supporting this. Only sad part is 24 limitations but that can be ok especialy when combining with second feature. Then we get trait panels and gear panels. Those 2 features were never asked for. Dont get me wrong, they can be nice addition for someone who need to swap between few strictly defined builds (such as condition soulbeast, power soulbeast and heal druid) but only reason why they are better then templates is gear storage. In everything else they are inferior or same as templates. And at least the last feature. Gear templates..... wait it isnt there. The main reason why I asked for TEMPLATES was to get gear templates. And they are not there but at the same time I am not allowed to use 3rd party program that had them. Briliant.
If they added oficial templates with unlimited amount of gearcodes stored on my computer, I would buy that system imidiatly. Right now I have no reason to buy anything because it doesnt have the function I need and I would need to swap some gear by hand anyway. Why not swap the rest too.
Edit: I am willing to buy everything if that ment I can use supperior system (arc). But since arc will not be supported, I will buy nothing.
-
> @"ZDragon.3046" said:
> > @"MoonT.6845" said:
> > > @"Lottie.5370" said:
> >
> > > Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??
> >
> > Pretty much everybody that plays WvW
> >
> > I run 14 different builds on roaming ranger alone, each with different gear configuration.
>
> If you run 14 different builds, have you considered minimizing the number of builds you would actually need a template for?
> Im just hoping when people say i have 10+ or 20+ builds its not having a build that you change where only 1 small minor thing changes like a utility slot, or a single trait or two or just a single weapon.
>
> I get that you can have quite a few builds in pvp/wvw and raid situations but i mean 14 for a single character is a lot.
I have 31 gears templates for my raid mesmer. And those are already minimised number where swaping 1-2 piecees is done by hand
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> @"Lottie.5370" said:
> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:
> > > @"Lottie.5370" said:
> > > Who needs more than 6 gear templates for one character??
> > Anyone playing both pve and WvW
> > Pve has different gear for power, condi, heal and support (with most classes being able to have useful builds in at least 3 of those roles). WvW, besides the condi/power split, uses different gear/builds for roaming and zerging. Also, the wvw gear is in general different than for pve, because in WvW you would want at least a bit of defensive stats regardless of your roles. And all that is _without_ getting into minmaxing for different specific environments.
> > Getting capped on gear templates and still needing more is easy.
> >
>
> Seems like you selectively left out the part at the end where I said it shouldn't be limited, nice one dude!
>
> And a general reminder: you are not limited to just 6 trait/utility builds, only to 6 gear setups, and it also functions as gear storage. I play WvW (roaming and blobbing), PvE (raids and open world) and PvP (which doesn't have gear, so won't take up a gear slot). I play multiple different classes and have several gear sets per character, however I still do not have more than 6 gear sets on more than ONE single character. It is not 6 gear templates per account, it is per character.
>
My support chrono has 28 gear templates alone not includong diferent weapons. Also I jave power dps, condi dps and condi mirage builds on the same character. And that is only for raids.
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> @"Patty.3268" said:
> > @"Taygus.4571" said:
> > That punishes hardcore players and loyal spenders even more....are you crazy?
> >
> > If anything buying more should get cheaper.
>
> No, I'm not. If slots start out more expensive and become cheaper the more you buy, that instead punishes non-hardcore players who only need a few additional slots instead of large numbers. There are a lot more non-hardcore players than hardcore players and loyal spenders. I was looking at it taking all types of players into account, not just some. I agree that my approach would make templates more expensive for hardcore players, but would also increase availability of additional slots for the overall player base by having lower entry prizes.
>
>
>
Well, even If one gear template is for 200 gems. I would spend 5800 gems just to have same number of gear templates as I have now.
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> @"RaidsAreEasyAF.8652" said:
> > @"Miellyn.6847" said:
> > And again someone who can't read and relys on 3rd party information that also didn't understand how the system works to complain about things.
> >
> > You get 3 builds and 2 equipment tabs per character. And also 3 (+3 for a month after release) account wide builds. Character builds do not occupy space in the account storage and vice versa.
> > Also equipment and traits are seperated unlike Arc which has both in one template. So having 20+ builds in arc actually means nothing in the new system. It could also translate into 3-4 equipment and 4-5 trait builds. Which is easily doable in the new system.
>
> I like that you call me out on relying on 3rd party information when you obviously dont know how things work as well. You are able to load equipment and traits separately in arc. Build Templates also arent the Problem. I have 3 buildtemplates and can get 3 more for free for a limited time. Build templates arent the issue tho. You can easily copy them into a txt file and load them that way.
> The problem are the equipment templates. You only have 2 per character, none for free and you cant share them with a link.
> So what do you do as a Ranger? Druid, Power Soulbeast and Condi Soulbeast.
> Or Revenant? Heal, Alacrigade and Condi.
> Thats already 3 different equipment templates needed.
>
> That might not be that much of an issue if you dont have legendary gear. You can just keep the stuff in your inventory and swap it rather quickly.
> If you do however have legendary gear, its takes ages because the UI is garbage.
And furthermore what do you do with support chrono which reqire 10 geartemplates minimum (mine has 31)
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If you have renaged you can run 2 power chronos with this for quickness
You can run 1 support chrono and one alacrity renegade but i think that is more for memes
Dissenchanter and stm is lower dps then chronophantasma and well
You can use free slot on normal support chrono for feedback, port, cc, stability mantra, dissenchanter for boonrip and mimic (on well of recall) to get better uptimes on both boons.
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> @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > > > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > > > > And relying on specific condition is a good thing since it leaves options for theory and optimalization.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I just find this point extremely hard to agree with.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > When there’s a massively powerful trait that hinges heavily on the presence of a condition, and you don’t even build around it (instead forcing others to build around you), what does that say about playing chrono? That you’re more of a selfish dps hog than other dps specs? You’re sacrificing others’ dps/utility to trait for slow so that you can do more dps while you’re epically failing to trait for it yourself? What kind of counterintuitive design is this?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Was it fair that the no-slow version of chrono, who was ‘average’ and decent beforehand, was nerfed in favour of balancing an obviously unstable build whose viability is dependant on the viability of other specs?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As I mentioned in another thread, all that this reliance is doing is pigeonholing chrono into a position where it will need to rely on slow to do anything anywhere. Supporting its existence doesn’t help change the problem. OW pve, wvw, pvp... what’s a power build when it can simply be countered by condi cleanse?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Would a viable no-slow build and another build that has a only small advantage (5-7%) using slow been more acceptable than the ‘slow or trash’ scenario we have today?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since you mentioned ‘options’, would it be acceptable to have the reliance of slow as an option in itself (for ‘theory and optimisation’, as you said), whilst having another perfectly viable, slightly weaker option that isn’t so bogged down by this slow or trash issue? Wouldn’t that theoretically ‘leave *more* options for theory and optimisation’?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No slo power chrono (with IA) or just solo chrononwith DT is still good. Not best option but close. Just DT pulls the class to first position on certain fights.
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you mean by ‘close’? One’s way above reaper (a.k.a the spec that ppl call ‘low dps’ for some reason) whilst the other is below it.
> > > > >
> > > > > > And you look at squad as 10 times solo player. Then yes. It is selfish trait.
> > > > > > But squad is 1 team. Its like saying that dps counting on 25 might from other source is bad design
> > > > >
> > > > > 25 might is different story. It is general utility that is applied to and is helpful for the whole group. Other boons are similar. At the very least, these conditions are already catered for in the first place.
> > > > >
> > > > > Slow pretty much does nothing other than ignorable breakbar dmg, and is mainly applied only when DT chrono players exist (not even for +dmg% traits per condi such as on thief or engi).
> > > > >
> > > > > And it’s also a boring free dmg% increase, because it isn’t forcing the chrono to do anything.
> > > >
> > > > If your squad is only chronos then slow benefits whole squad.
> > > > Yea, it is not optimal at all to run IA but it is still decent (if you count scourge decent for example)
> > > >
> > > > Chrono provides some slow alone. Even without other power chronos, usualy you have decent uptime on danger time. Far from ideal but it is there.
> > > >
> > > > Edit: and reaper doesnt have low dps. Problem is that it has very bad burst for power dps
> > >
> > > Which leads back to the problem and all the comments made by others about chrono only working best when 7 of them are present.
> > >
> > > Still, is the huge dps discrepancy between slow and no-slow really that acceptable? Or alternatively, what is your opinion on the ‘slow or trash’ issue?
> > >
> > > No one’s also seemed to have mentioned that the spec already relies on AI which can make or break the spec depending on the situation.
> > >
> > > The overall answer to the OP’s question from all these responses so far would still be: not in competitive gamemodes, and only compared to low tier specs in pve (because it is one) or in hardcore solo OW, unless slow is very conveniently supplied by others (applicable in raids and world bosses only). So basically - no, unless you specifically like the theme or want to be special.
> >
> > In my opinion this kind of balance (at least in raids) is bad. If all classes are on same number everywhere then one is best because it has unique mechanic others dont. Then there is no reason to take the others.
> > Take ele for example. It used to be that skills dealt more damage based on size of the hitbox. This was great because on big bosses it shined but on smaler one it wasnt as good because others were more flexible with sama damage. After change it is either top dps by alot everywhere or it is usless everywhere because it provides nothing else then damage unlike others.
> > Because of those nieche situations like boss atack speed, boss movement, duration of phases, diferent toughness, detonate plasma and damage per boon traits, flanikng, cleave there are diferent there are more options. Take it away and there will be only 1.
>
> Think you might have mistook me for someone else/forgot to quote some other person. My line of argument is ‘slow chrono vs no-slow chrono’, not ‘all builds should be able to do the same dmg’.
>
> For context, I intended for the no-slow variant to be raised back to 5-10% *below* the slow variant which kept intact as it currently is. Would you be inclined to disagree, and if so, why?
>
> > Also dragonhunters share the same "problem". They are stronger, the more you have.
> > They work with specific boon, retal in this case, but they cannot get 100% uptime alone. Guess who provide more retal? You guessed it, other dragonhunters.
> > Also if you take enough of them you get up to 10k dps because of Feel my wrath stacking. Is this problem too?
>
> DH is still different in that it’s meta build already gets 65% uptime by itself (or *at the very least* 40%, not including alacrity or fractal potion conversion), compared to chrono’s measly 13.33%. If the DH player really wants, they can technically sacrifice <5% dps for one utility that will grant them the remaining ~7% dps from retal. Meanwhile, chrono doesn’t have much tools to budge that low uptime without sacrificing questionable amounts of dps.
>
> You also only theoretically need 2 DHs to reach 100% efficacy, compared to 7 chronos. Boons also stick on you, so if target switching is ever required, DH isn’t quite as destroyed. And you raised up Detonate Plasma..
>
> ‘10k dps’? Did you mean something else?
>
> No ones (or at least I’m not) arguing about stacking chronos to obtain perma quickness uptime, just only the slow component and it’s relative rarity.
Yea, that was reaction to 1 post above you. Sorry.
Chrono can too sacrifice utility slot for more slow but it is true that its much bigger loss. Not as much in dps but in burst which is why chrono is powerful. Slightly incresing no slow damage would be great but that doesnt mean that power chrono is bad by any means.
And I ment 10k dps. The reason is this. Standard composition is support chrono, alacrity renegade, druid, warrior, quickbrand and rest dps. If you take enough DHs, you can replace quickbrand by another DH since feel my wrath from dragonhunters will be enough to cover all quickness that quicknrand was there for. That is one of the reasons why DH is extremly strong right now. Because you can have 1 more DPS in squad.
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> @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > > > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > > And relying on specific condition is a good thing since it leaves options for theory and optimalization.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just find this point extremely hard to agree with.
> > > > >
> > > > > When there’s a massively powerful trait that hinges heavily on the presence of a condition, and you don’t even build around it (instead forcing others to build around you), what does that say about playing chrono? That you’re more of a selfish dps hog than other dps specs? You’re sacrificing others’ dps/utility to trait for slow so that you can do more dps while you’re epically failing to trait for it yourself? What kind of counterintuitive design is this?
> > > > >
> > > > > Was it fair that the no-slow version of chrono, who was ‘average’ and decent beforehand, was nerfed in favour of balancing an obviously unstable build whose viability is dependant on the viability of other specs?
> > > > >
> > > > > As I mentioned in another thread, all that this reliance is doing is pigeonholing chrono into a position where it will need to rely on slow to do anything anywhere. Supporting its existence doesn’t help change the problem. OW pve, wvw, pvp... what’s a power build when it can simply be countered by condi cleanse?
> > > > >
> > > > > Would a viable no-slow build and another build that has a only small advantage (5-7%) using slow been more acceptable than the ‘slow or trash’ scenario we have today?
> > > > >
> > > > > Since you mentioned ‘options’, would it be acceptable to have the reliance of slow as an option in itself (for ‘theory and optimisation’, as you said), whilst having another perfectly viable, slightly weaker option that isn’t so bogged down by this slow or trash issue? Wouldn’t that theoretically ‘leave *more* options for theory and optimisation’?
> > > >
> > > > No slo power chrono (with IA) or just solo chrononwith DT is still good. Not best option but close. Just DT pulls the class to first position on certain fights.
> > >
> > > What do you mean by ‘close’? One’s way above reaper (a.k.a the spec that ppl call ‘low dps’ for some reason) whilst the other is below it.
> > >
> > > > And you look at squad as 10 times solo player. Then yes. It is selfish trait.
> > > > But squad is 1 team. Its like saying that dps counting on 25 might from other source is bad design
> > >
> > > 25 might is different story. It is general utility that is applied to and is helpful for the whole group. Other boons are similar. At the very least, these conditions are already catered for in the first place.
> > >
> > > Slow pretty much does nothing other than ignorable breakbar dmg, and is mainly applied only when DT chrono players exist (not even for +dmg% traits per condi such as on thief or engi).
> > >
> > > And it’s also a boring free dmg% increase, because it isn’t forcing the chrono to do anything.
> >
> > If your squad is only chronos then slow benefits whole squad.
> > Yea, it is not optimal at all to run IA but it is still decent (if you count scourge decent for example)
> >
> > Chrono provides some slow alone. Even without other power chronos, usualy you have decent uptime on danger time. Far from ideal but it is there.
> >
> > Edit: and reaper doesnt have low dps. Problem is that it has very bad burst for power dps
>
> Which leads back to the problem and all the comments made by others about chrono only working best when 7 of them are present.
>
> Still, is the huge dps discrepancy between slow and no-slow really that acceptable? Or alternatively, what is your opinion on the ‘slow or trash’ issue?
>
> No one’s also seemed to have mentioned that the spec already relies on AI which can make or break the spec depending on the situation.
>
> The overall answer to the OP’s question from all these responses so far would still be: not in competitive gamemodes, and only compared to low tier specs in pve (because it is one) or in hardcore solo OW, unless slow is very conveniently supplied by others (applicable in raids and world bosses only). So basically - no, unless you specifically like the theme or want to be special.
In my opinion this kind of balance (at least in raids) is bad. If all classes are on same number everywhere then one is best because it has unique mechanic others dont. Then there is no reason to take the others.
Take ele for example. It used to be that skills dealt more damage based on size of the hitbox. This was great because on big bosses it shined but on smaler one it wasnt as good because others were more flexible with sama damage. After change it is either top dps by alot everywhere or it is usless everywhere because it provides nothing else then damage unlike others.
Because of those nieche situations like boss atack speed, boss movement, duration of phases, diferent toughness, detonate plasma and damage per boon traits, flanikng, cleave there are diferent there are more options. Take it away and there will be only 1.
Also dragonhunters share the same "problem". They are stronger, the more you have.
They work with specific boon, retal in this case, but they cannot get 100% uptime alone. Guess who provide more retal? You guessed it, other dragonhunters.
Also if you take enough of them you get up to 10k dps because of Feel my wrath stacking. Is this problem too?
-
> @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > And relying on specific condition is a good thing since it leaves options for theory and optimalization.
> > >
> > > I just find this point extremely hard to agree with.
> > >
> > > When there’s a massively powerful trait that hinges heavily on the presence of a condition, and you don’t even build around it (instead forcing others to build around you), what does that say about playing chrono? That you’re more of a selfish dps hog than other dps specs? You’re sacrificing others’ dps/utility to trait for slow so that you can do more dps while you’re epically failing to trait for it yourself? What kind of counterintuitive design is this?
> > >
> > > Was it fair that the no-slow version of chrono, who was ‘average’ and decent beforehand, was nerfed in favour of balancing an obviously unstable build whose viability is dependant on the viability of other specs?
> > >
> > > As I mentioned in another thread, all that this reliance is doing is pigeonholing chrono into a position where it will need to rely on slow to do anything anywhere. Supporting its existence doesn’t help change the problem. OW pve, wvw, pvp... what’s a power build when it can simply be countered by condi cleanse?
> > >
> > > Would a viable no-slow build and another build that has a only small advantage (5-7%) using slow been more acceptable than the ‘slow or trash’ scenario we have today?
> > >
> > > Since you mentioned ‘options’, would it be acceptable to have the reliance of slow as an option in itself (for ‘theory and optimisation’, as you said), whilst having another perfectly viable, slightly weaker option that isn’t so bogged down by this slow or trash issue? Wouldn’t that theoretically ‘leave *more* options for theory and optimisation’?
> >
> > No slo power chrono (with IA) or just solo chrononwith DT is still good. Not best option but close. Just DT pulls the class to first position on certain fights.
>
> What do you mean by ‘close’? One’s way above reaper (a.k.a the spec that ppl call ‘low dps’ for some reason) whilst the other is below it.
>
> > And you look at squad as 10 times solo player. Then yes. It is selfish trait.
> > But squad is 1 team. Its like saying that dps counting on 25 might from other source is bad design
>
> 25 might is different story. It is general utility that is applied to and is helpful for the whole group. Other boons are similar. At the very least, these conditions are already catered for in the first place.
>
> Slow pretty much does nothing other than ignorable breakbar dmg, and is mainly applied only when DT chrono players exist (not even for +dmg% traits per condi such as on thief or engi).
>
> And it’s also a boring free dmg% increase, because it isn’t forcing the chrono to do anything.
If your squad is only chronos then slow benefits whole squad.
Yea, it is not optimal at all to run IA but it is still decent (if you count scourge decent for example)
Chrono provides some slow alone. Even without other power chronos, usualy you have decent uptime on danger time. Far from ideal but it is there.
Edit: and reaper doesnt have low dps. Problem is that it has very bad burst for power dps
-
> @"Gogdarth.6741" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> >snip
>
> For open world point, please explain me since when it was important to have self-reliant boons for it? I will not deny that it has the advantage of double-bursting once every minute and a half, that is true and unmatched by anything (because they don't have CS), but I'll point out that being a fragile build with palpable multitarget, cleave and tagging issues is far off from "best for open world PvE" if your concern is not "speedrunning open world". For this, I strongly believe that "ease of use" is a crucial consideration, and unfortunately Chrono falls short on that. Also, you can't Seize The Moment without clones anymore to gather nodes, so that's sad too.
>
> In short, Power Chrono is a risky overkill that provides you none of the usual OW advantages you'd want aside from having so much damage nothing survives for too long. That doesn't matter, because OW bar is very, very, extremely low in that regard. As for CC point, that's a non-issue even since ~~sliced bread~~ planks, but true - with chrono you can also stuff some Humiliations in there real quick. Again, bar in OW is so low you'll be fine with a plank + headbutt - esque CC anything under the sun has, like lil less often than "always".
>
> The "specific condition reliance thing" is... In theory, your argument looks sound. Kinda creates niches and diversity. But reliance on Slow absolutely _should not be it. _ It's exactly because of it's rarity you stuff in 7 chronos into raids, otherwise in any content that isn't 10man Chrono's simply suboptimal as a DPS. (or as a support too, hi firebrigade). It's an extremely narrow and backwards way of creating a niche, when it's the class itself that is supposed to provide it's niche to operate in.
>
> But moving forward, I strongly believe it'll only be beneficial with this stupid reliance gone entirely. Even more widely-available Weakness for Ele didn't work out too well, didn't it? Instead of making it this way, how about we change the way our buttons work? Imagine something like a trait in DT's place that allows you to use CS much more often, but only for weapon skills, for example, and for a shorter duration. Would that be a trait that affects DPS? Heck yeah. It'd also make you literally play differently, as you'll be aiming to milk out phantasms out of that variation of a shatter, making you reshape your rotations into something significantly different from other specs within the class. Wouldn't that be a preferable option?
>
> Keep in mind, I'm not saying "literally do that", but it does sound way more fun than stacking 7 of the same or asking for a condi renegade to pop into existence to be viable. It's just a rough example I came up with on the spot to illustrate the point of what I mean.
>
In truth. If there is 1 best dps on a raidboss, why use diferent dps option?
Every top tier comp stack only one dps class. Only time you see more is to deal with certain mechanic (epidemic on scourge, renegade boonstrip, deadeye kiting, soulbeast frost/sun spirit....)
Take Deadeye for example. Deadeye is almost never goid pick in raids. There are 2 exeptions, one is kiting on qadim2 because of lifesteal, long range and not needing to move. And other is mursat overseer.
And the reason to take it on MO is that again, you dont need to move and also because support thief/dd can steal detonate plasma to give all boons to deadeyes so they benefit from trait that gives 1% damage per boon on them. That is also very nieche option dont you think?
And yes, in OW trash mobs dies fast. It doesnt matter what you play.
Veterans/champions dies slower but that is what you have cc and burst+boons for.
Boons are more then half of the damage. That is why they are important
-
> @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > And relying on specific condition is a good thing since it leaves options for theory and optimalization.
>
> I just find this point extremely hard to agree with.
>
> When there’s a massively powerful trait that hinges heavily on the presence of a condition, and you don’t even build around it (instead forcing others to build around you), what does that say about playing chrono? That you’re more of a selfish dps hog than other dps specs? You’re sacrificing others’ dps/utility to trait for slow so that you can do more dps while you’re epically failing to trait for it yourself? What kind of counterintuitive design is this?
>
> Was it fair that the no-slow version of chrono, who was ‘average’ and decent beforehand, was nerfed in favour of balancing an obviously unstable build whose viability is dependant on the viability of other specs?
>
> As I mentioned in another thread, all that this reliance is doing is pigeonholing chrono into a position where it will need to rely on slow to do anything anywhere. Supporting its existence doesn’t help change the problem. OW pve, wvw, pvp... what’s a power build when it can simply be countered by condi cleanse?
>
> Would a viable no-slow build and another build that has a only small advantage (5-7%) using slow been more acceptable than the ‘slow or trash’ scenario we have today?
>
> Since you mentioned ‘options’, would it be acceptable to have the reliance of slow as an option in itself (for ‘theory and optimisation’, as you said), whilst having another perfectly viable, slightly weaker option that isn’t so bogged down by this slow or trash issue? Wouldn’t that theoretically ‘leave *more* options for theory and optimisation’?
No slo power chrono (with IA) or just solo chrononwith DT is still good. Not best option but close. Just DT pulls the class to first position on certain fights.
And you look at squad as 10 times solo player. Then yes. It is selfish trait.
But squad is 1 team. Its like saying that dps counting on 25 might from other source is bad design
-
> @"Lethion.8745" said:
> > @"Gogdarth.6741" said:
> > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> >
> > All you're showing is that Chrono's slow reliance is a toxic double-edged sword that makes it a bad DPS everywhere but in Raids where you stack a bunch of them for a chrono 7-way. For the record, if you have to stack same class x7 or with a very specific condi-pair to make it a good DPS actually, then it's very safe to say that it's straight up toxic with it's restrictiveness towards other DPS options and should be reworked.
> >
> > I have no idea how come people claiming that chrono's good for Open World either, because there are things that have way better survival perks (remember, you're playing alone - not dying is kinda important, and Chrono literally lost Mesmer's most defensive button lol), or things that have way better self-generated damage. PvP modes - fully dead, Jim, and new traits make it even worse than after the initial IP blow. I tried it. It felt like I was slapping myself repeatedly, because people literally can avoid my damage by walking backwards now.
> >
> > @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 , @Robert Gee.9246 , Imma gonna ping you both as other dude above did, because I really want answers about how's that a thing and why arguably one of the most interesting specs with the coolest mechanic ever (CS) to grace GW universe is so bad now. Can we please hear something? The design goals? Is Chrono being beaten repeatedly because it's balanced around that one part of PvE in a game with at least 2 other gamemodes and with PvE that is much bigger than just raids? I'm not being melodramatic, hopefully, but there's no way to put it lightly - these "advantages" to Chrono that people use to claim that "it's fine" are actually terrible as well, because stacking 7 of the same class for it to be top DPS is not fine, ekshully.
> >
> > And please, oh please, if this reaches anyone's eyes upstairs - guys, if you're going to do anything about this and actually communicate, please do it soon. It's already been long enough, and despite you asking for feedback and people very reasonably being like "what about your awful chrono changes" you gave us radio silence. All we are asking for is clarity, and hopefully improvement (though I'll be hard-pressed to call myself hopeful after all Mesmer was through and still goes through to this day for years).
>
> I couldn't point it out any better. Imagine there was a skill that reads "Deal 100k dmg if you have 25 stacks of might, enemy is not facing you, it's Friday night, there are no Asuras in your current zone, choyas speak to you and you are walking backwards." In your perspective such skill should be considered strong and even broke. In fact, it's just toxic as he said and badly designed. I already pointed the correct way of balancing such mechanic in the first post; Reduce the dmg, increase the slow application. Also those things that other supports cannot do and chrono can like portal are not part of the Chronomancer spec. We are complaning about chronomancer spec not mesmer as a whole.
Power chrono is at around 35k. Most used dps is dragonhunter, at around 35k. There are small variants because of specific mechanics.
Yes, portal is core mesmer thing. But you would almost never take core mesmer just for port. You can take scourge or thief just for port but it is better to take something that will do anything else and not just port.
And tell me which build overcomes chrono in openworld. A build with high burst and abikity to give itself permanent 25 might, fury and quickness without taking any boon duration or gear choices to help with that while also having so much cc that every breakbar is broken instantly
Witch chrono i have many blocks in OW but I never need any since everything dies before I take a hit. Dont know what class you are playing
I know that in wvw and pve chrono isnt doing well. That is true. But I dissagree about pve.
And relying on specific condition is a good thing since it leaves options for theory and optimalization.
-
> @"Lethion.8745" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > Chrono in pve is extremly bad. That is why it is still best option on 80 percent of bosses in raids.
>
> I suppose you're talking about Support Chrono. I knew someone was going to come up with this. I won't say it's bad but why would I spend a month or more for full minstrel gear which will have no use outside of raids? Chrono in raids exists only for quickness and alacrity and both can be done by other supports too, namely Revenant and Firebrand. Both can be played in WvW as a support with the same gear they play with in raids and they are even top tier in that manners so your efforts for support gear will have a big pay off. Mesmer is already bad for WvW because of many reasons and Chrono makes it only worse. Personally, if I was to gear up a support for raids, Chrono would be my last choice. There is nothing that Chrono can and other supports can't
>
> > @"Painbow.6059" said:
> > I mean, Boon Chrono is still a strong build in raids, and Power Chrono is good if you have consistent slow application (namely stacking power chronos or a condi renegade). Power Chrono is also very strong for open-world due to the amount of self-boon application along with burst it has. You can play Condi Chrono (DPS) for like 2 raid encounters, although it's still worse than Mirage on both. I dunno like in regards to PvE Chrono is still a great class, just not fractals
>
> As I already mention Chrono completley relies on other for slow application and no one takes traits that applies slow for PvE. There is only Revenant who applies slow by default and they are not the most popular dpsers in PvE. For open worlds, I am not saying it's unimportant but it shouldn't be focus of balance changes for any profession.
>
> > @"otto.5684" said:
> > Personally, never a fan of chrono, but I do not understand Anet changes either. You would think 4 years in, Anet would have a clear vision of how chrono should perform, but that clearly is not the case.
> >
> > I also do not understand Anet obsession with slow as being an extremely powerful debuff, cuz it surely is not. In PvE it is not different than cripple. In PvP chill, weakness, immobilize are far more effective and far more available. Heck, even cripple is more effective in many situations. And its lack of availability hurts chrono significantly.
>
> Agreed. With the alacrity made generic,(which I actually support) Chronomancer doesn't even have a special mechanic anymore. Those new shatters can't be counted as one since they are worse than their originals. It's initial design was a support which speeds up allies or a control focused damage dealer which slows down enemies with time magic but it ended up worse than other proffesions in both sides. Those shatter abominations needs to be gone for good and be replaced with a new mechanic which actually makes chrono special.
I see you dont play raids that often so let me explain.
Support chronomancer almost never run minstrel and it is definitely not standard build.
Also there are many things that other supports cannot do and chrono can like portal.
Right now there are 3-4 diferent chrono builds used in raids (with many variations). Power support, condi support, power dps and condi dps.
Yes, support chrono is still used frequently but dont forget about others. Many records were done with 7 dps chronomancers. Last one was 2-3 weeks ago.
-
> @"BrokenGlass.9356" said:
> So, it seems as though druid's ability to hit all 10 players with might is too strong.
>
> If druid could might only 5 players, what other classes can produce enough might?
>
> I'm curious because I'm trying to figure out if the *overwhelming* amount of support, boons, and unique buffs provided by druid was intended.
>
> Like... I'm going to make my boonbot banner warrior. It'll be fun, especially every fractal I play that's druid-free.
>
> It just seems that, what would otherwise be a really functional system of various classes all designed to swap and overlap to provide raid bonuses... Has been neutered by the overperformance of one class as far back as HoT launch.
>
> Seems to me like, they need to cut down druid's unique buffs, (or give other versions of them to other classes) and they need to nerf its might application to 5 people. Then they need to introduce alacrity and quickness to one new class each. Do that, and we'll be able to shuffle the meta into a ton of varying shapes.
Herald can provide 25 might to 10 players in real raid too. Same as tempest (i think).
Reason why everyone take druid are spirits. Also many strategies vere defised when there was no option so they require druid. Top tier players use druid because of spirits and newer players use druid because they dont want to /cannot devise new strategies with diferent healer in mind
-
Kinda late but double shortbow soulbeast is exactly what you are looking for.
-
Chrono in pve is extremly bad. That is why it is still best option on 80 percent of bosses in raids.
-
> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"RyuDragnier.9476" said:
> > > People use more than 3 builds for PvE on any class? That...blows my mind.
> >
> > > @"RyuDragnier.9476" said:
> > > People use more than 3 builds for PvE on any class? That...blows my mind.
> >
> > My chrono uses more then 30.
> > 5 stat combinations and many diferent runes, weapons, sigils and amount of boon duration under each of thise combinations
>
> Why would a chrono need more than 30? I'm not sure what you play but if it's exclusively PvE, 1-2 builds will carry you through all the content. Not saying it's pointless to use that many builds, but you are definitely a prime candidate who'd spend the money on all these slots. Perhaps in Anet's eyes, they see it similar to the way I see it; most players don't need the templates, let alone 3. Anything outside of that is a sheer luxury, and if players want the luxury, they'll pay for it.
Yes, I would spend money but you cannot have more then 6 now. If there were 30 I would buy them
-
> @"zealex.9410" said:
> > @"Cronos.6532" said:
> > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > @"Sylum.1806" said:
> > > > > @"Vavume.8065" said:
> > > > > This is AltWars 2, if you are playing on a single character you are doing it wrong...
> > > >
> > > > Maybe they meant not having to create more than 1 character per profession?
> > >
> > > Yes. My chrono for raids right now uses 30+ gear templates. If I want to play the same I need to create 4 aditional mesmers, craft the same gear 4 more times, buy 20 gear templates (i would be ok with buying 20 on one character and not 4 on 5 diferent mesmers) and I still cannot swap as quickly since i need to swap between characters.
> >
> > Unironically it's probably best to shrink that 30+ down to a smaller set of suboptimal builds that are good for all encounters
> > In many scenarios you might be able to just load a close-enough template and then switch the one trait that needs fixing
>
> Doesnt that defeat the purpose of build templates?
Exactly, why have templates when you need to switch by hand anyway
-
> @"Thorstienn.1642" said:
> > @"rabenpriester.7129" said:
> > Nah, they really can just get out if they display their ignorance as an argument. Useless clutter.
>
> Please, tell me how you really feel?
>
>
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"Thorstienn.1642" said:
> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > @"Thorstienn.1642" said:
> > > > > I get that people want to keep getting what they were "allowed" to have before as a minimum, but suggesting you NEED 20 builds is rediculous. The changes in traits etc must be so small. Just use more characters.
> > > > > I DO agree that something should be done about using the same gear across characters though, at least for legendary, but ideally for any account bound (and I dont have legendary).
> > > >
> > > > I do nat care about traits since I can have up to 24 saved in game and any numbe with chatcodes on my computer.
> > > >
> > > > Problem are gears since I can only save up to 6 and not 30
> > >
> > > Ok... so maybe a non-hardcore raider/wvw player like myself just doesn't get it. Perhaps to illustrate your point better you could list these 30 different gear setups for me (that require being on 1 character, but that's no big deal) and what they are used for so I can potentially be on your side.
> > > Cause currently I'm imagining you have gear changes where you swap one berserker item to assassins when there is no spotter or something to that effect, which really shouldn't "require" a full pre save.
> > > As I say, let us "casuals" know the NEED, so we can be on your side.
> >
> > > @"Thorstienn.1642" said:
> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > @"Thorstienn.1642" said:
> > > > > I get that people want to keep getting what they were "allowed" to have before as a minimum, but suggesting you NEED 20 builds is rediculous. The changes in traits etc must be so small. Just use more characters.
> > > > > I DO agree that something should be done about using the same gear across characters though, at least for legendary, but ideally for any account bound (and I dont have legendary).
> > > >
> > > > I do nat care about traits since I can have up to 24 saved in game and any numbe with chatcodes on my computer.
> > > >
> > > > Problem are gears since I can only save up to 6 and not 30
> > >
> > > Ok... so maybe a non-hardcore raider/wvw player like myself just doesn't get it. Perhaps to illustrate your point better you could list these 30 different gear setups for me (that require being on 1 character, but that's no big deal) and what they are used for so I can potentially be on your side.
> > > Cause currently I'm imagining you have gear changes where you swap one berserker item to assassins when there is no spotter or something to that effect, which really shouldn't "require" a full pre save.
> > > As I say, let us "casuals" know the NEED, so we can be on your side.
> >
> > Ok, here we go:
> >
> > Support chrono:
> > 40 boon duration 1000 toughness (only with sword)
> >
> > 50bd 1000t
> > 50bd 1000t cc
> > 50bd 1251t
> > 50bd 1251t cc
> >
> > 60bd 1000t
> > 60bd 1000t cc
> > 60bd 1251t
> > 60bd 1251t cc
> >
> > 75bd 1000t
> > 75bd 1000t cc
> > 75bd 1251t
> > 75bd 1251t cc
> >
> > 100bd 1000t
> > 100bd 1000t cc
> > 100bd 1251t
> > 100bd 1251t cc
> >
> > (All of the builds above are there 2-3 times, CC versions have GS, pistol and focus versions and without cc have focus or sword versions)
> >
> > ~75bd Trailblaizer preplexity
> > ~75bd Trailblaizer nightmare
> > ~85bd Trailblaizer
> > ~75bd Viper preplexity
> > ~75bd Viper nightmare
> >
> > Minstrel Pack (focus and sword versions)
> > Minstrel Durability
> > Minstrel Monk
> > Minstrel Revenant
> >
> > Harrier monk
> >
> > DPS:
> > GS Power chrono
> > Focus Power chrono
> > Condi dps chrono
> > Condi Mirage (to be fair, I only have it saved but I have played it once)
>
> Thanks. Now please bare with this poor ignorant moron, as I am trying to learn here; how often are each of those variants required in 1 instance, and what really constitutes the variant (1 piece armor? An offhand weapon swap?)
> Do all variants require being on 1 character? (I understand not wanting to switch characters within an instance).
> Looking at your list I can see why more than six could be warranted, but struggle imagining more than 10being needed for more than anything but an extreme level of convenience. (Eg. Swapping focus for sword).
>
> And I get it, Arc Templates exist; and in sure Arenanet is kicking themselves for ever greenlighting it now. But the way they are implementing it will free up a lot of potential bag space for all, but would be a rediculous amount for so many possible variants. (This is ignoring legendary armor and runes, as I 100% believe THAT is where they really need to work this system out correctly as it is a big fail right now: once again, from someone with out legendary gear.)
Since you want to learn I hope you dont mind longer text to explain.
Most of the builds in raids have 1000 toughness. That is important because some bosses are tanked by player with most toughness. On those bosses i slot it one toughness infusion (+5 toughness) if everyone else is on 1000
But there are some builds that cannot be on 1000t because of some traits that cannot be changed. Those are soulbeasts (1150, that reminds me I have one 1151 gear but switch by hand to other variants since it is not as common) and firebrand (1250, in 1 half of all raids). That is why I have 1251 gear, to get above firebrand so I get the agro.
But sometimes boss dont have a tank or tank changes randomly/has diferent criteria or someone else is tanking. In those cases I use 1000 toughness builds.
Some bosses require cc. If they do I take mesmer runes and paralization sigils to improve my CC. After all I am a support so If i cc for my teamates they can use their cc skills for damage which is much higher then what I would do alone when I didnt have that bonus cc. This also require change of gear since I lose 15 percent boon duration from rune of the pack. Sometimes I cannot take mesmer rune since rune of the pack is needed for fury, then it Is again diferent, both in traits and skills and in gear because now I have that 15 percent.
Some bosses hit rly hard so If i want be more safe I take more defense. If I die because of low defense gear my squad will take a huge loss since they will lose boons and so much more damage then my build with lower defense would provide.
On some bosses confusion and torment are so strong that even my small dps is incresed rapidly by focusing on those 2 conditions
And for boon duration. Sometimes fight involve alot of movement. Then players my miss some of my boons and so more boon duration is there to cover it. Also newer players might not have as good position so they might miss boons because they are still learning. More bd will help them (and the squad)
Also there are specific builds for certain special jobs i need to do (like previously mentioned escort cave) so there are builds for that too.
And finaly. Raids are in instance. After 1 kill we go to next boss. Based on setup diferent builds are required for diferent bosses. And instead of leaving instance, selecting new mesmer, loading to aerodrome, entering instance catching to group and making those small changes (like weapon or toughness infusion) i can click gear by hand when chacking a notepad near PC.
Also I would need to craft most of the sets 4 more times.
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> @"kharmin.7683" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"Durzlla.6295" said:
> > > > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > > > @"perilisk.1874" said:
> > > > > There isn't much reason right now to use them the way the game is designed, at least in PvE. The main thing is switching between condi, power, or support. So, 3? But you can always just use more alts, which have a lot of other benefits.
> > > >
> > > > My support chrono has 30+
> > >
> > > For what? Every single utility and single trait switch out?
> >
> > For each boss 2 (if we have chrono, ren, fb or double chrono)
> >
> > And most bosses have diferent build, and for bosses where tank and second chrono do something else (like dhuum) there is another one
> >
> > Edit:Oh, build does notinclude gear? Then maybe I can get away with 15. I have 30+ gear templates
>
> Yet even more reason why I'll never raid.
That is not required but I like to minmax. One or two builds are perfectly fine for raids. I just like to do things efficient
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> @"Thorstienn.1642" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"Thorstienn.1642" said:
> > > I get that people want to keep getting what they were "allowed" to have before as a minimum, but suggesting you NEED 20 builds is rediculous. The changes in traits etc must be so small. Just use more characters.
> > > I DO agree that something should be done about using the same gear across characters though, at least for legendary, but ideally for any account bound (and I dont have legendary).
> >
> > I do nat care about traits since I can have up to 24 saved in game and any numbe with chatcodes on my computer.
> >
> > Problem are gears since I can only save up to 6 and not 30
>
> Ok... so maybe a non-hardcore raider/wvw player like myself just doesn't get it. Perhaps to illustrate your point better you could list these 30 different gear setups for me (that require being on 1 character, but that's no big deal) and what they are used for so I can potentially be on your side.
> Cause currently I'm imagining you have gear changes where you swap one berserker item to assassins when there is no spotter or something to that effect, which really shouldn't "require" a full pre save.
> As I say, let us "casuals" know the NEED, so we can be on your side.
> @"Thorstienn.1642" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"Thorstienn.1642" said:
> > > I get that people want to keep getting what they were "allowed" to have before as a minimum, but suggesting you NEED 20 builds is rediculous. The changes in traits etc must be so small. Just use more characters.
> > > I DO agree that something should be done about using the same gear across characters though, at least for legendary, but ideally for any account bound (and I dont have legendary).
> >
> > I do nat care about traits since I can have up to 24 saved in game and any numbe with chatcodes on my computer.
> >
> > Problem are gears since I can only save up to 6 and not 30
>
> Ok... so maybe a non-hardcore raider/wvw player like myself just doesn't get it. Perhaps to illustrate your point better you could list these 30 different gear setups for me (that require being on 1 character, but that's no big deal) and what they are used for so I can potentially be on your side.
> Cause currently I'm imagining you have gear changes where you swap one berserker item to assassins when there is no spotter or something to that effect, which really shouldn't "require" a full pre save.
> As I say, let us "casuals" know the NEED, so we can be on your side.
Ok, here we go:
Support chrono:
40 boon duration 1000 toughness (only with sword)
50bd 1000t
50bd 1000t cc
50bd 1251t
50bd 1251t cc
60bd 1000t
60bd 1000t cc
60bd 1251t
60bd 1251t cc
75bd 1000t
75bd 1000t cc
75bd 1251t
75bd 1251t cc
100bd 1000t
100bd 1000t cc
100bd 1251t
100bd 1251t cc
(All of the builds above are there 2-3 times, CC versions have GS, pistol and focus versions and without cc have focus or sword versions)
~75bd Trailblaizer preplexity
~75bd Trailblaizer nightmare
~85bd Trailblaizer
~75bd Viper preplexity
~75bd Viper nightmare
Minstrel Pack (focus and sword versions)
Minstrel Durability
Minstrel Monk
Minstrel Revenant
Harrier monk
DPS:
GS Power chrono
Focus Power chrono
Condi dps chrono
Condi Mirage (to be fair, I only have it saved but I have played it once)
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> @"mindcircus.1506" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > > @"Sylum.1806" said:
> > > > @"Vavume.8065" said:
> > > > This is AltWars 2, if you are playing on a single character you are doing it wrong...
> > >
> > > Maybe they meant not having to create more than 1 character per profession?
> >
> > Yes. My chrono for raids right now uses 30+ gear templates. If I want to play the same I need to create 4 aditional mesmers, craft the same gear 4 more times, buy 20 gear templates (i would be ok with buying 20 on one character and not 4 on 5 diferent mesmers) and I still cannot swap as quickly since i need to swap between characters.
>
> Under the new system, using Notepad you have this ability.
> I know the truth doesn't make a good argument for free stuff.
> But it is the truth.
There are no chatcodes for gear, only traits and skills
[merged] I want to keep using Arc Build Templates... :/
in Guild Wars 2 Discussion
Posted
> @"TheGrimm.5624" said:
> > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said:
> > They could have made same system as arkh and sell it for 3000 gems. They decided to do some fancy stuff that is usless for casual comunity and almost usless for hardcore community (gear storage) and I dont know why. I guess they thought that their product must be diferent then arc but they didnt understand what are the good parts of arc.
> > Amd many players I play with only bought qol updates for real money. Rest was for gold.
>
> As a player with 31 toons the gear storage aspect of this saves me a ton of space in storage. I have had maxed storage since day 1 so this is a big QoL addition for me. Please don't speak for the community.
If you have maxed storage from day 1 you are not a cassual player. And if you have it maxed out I dont know why you need that much space anyway. But good for you.