ZDragon.3046

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"Galmac.4680" said:

> > You mean scourges, who don't really have a shroud?

>

> In the real world...barrier spam counts as shroud, additional health..whatever semantic diatribe you wanna use. Professions getting stealth/block don't have access to additional health bar or condi uptime/boon rip etc etc etc

Except its not though its no where near close enough to the raw defense that shroud generally offers on any given build and if that were the case we would see possibly other profession who dont use barrier as much. Because then i have to ask why those professions have barrier along side evades, blocks, etc while the necromancer still is not allowed to have such things.

Other professions that have stealth certainly do have condi uptime and boon rip to say they dont is false

Both the Mesmer and Theif have stealth access and both have access to boon rips and condi up time thats more than good enough to be viable and thats only two examples ill put to keep things short.

So yes when you remove the second health bar (if you can really call it that because its also a resource) and try to count barrier counts as shroud we then have to ask why other professions have access to barrier while keeping their other defensive tools. Barrier is by far not equal to shrouds. The barrier is not equal to shroud and the cost of giving up shroud is still generally not worth what you get in exchange the only time its decently worth it is in wvw where more aoe is king and in pve where scourge still has decent condi damage output (which is still heavily overshadowed by other options in many situations)

Lets also not forget how minor boon rip is in open world as the majority of open world content still has no major need for a ton of boon rip. 95% of the content = boonless foes.

> @"Kalavier.1097" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Norentic.4762" said:

> > > A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.

> > > I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

> >

> > To be fair its not exactly like he was that far away he prob could have shot him in the head with a pistol form that distance and got the same result. So im not sure why you have to say sniping must be easy. He is a warrior and Warriors do have skill called kill shot which by all means way back in the times of core days killed other players all the time if they didnt dodge it. There is no reason to suggest he would have proper rifle skills in the first place.

> >

> > As far as Malice and the others they did say that they should have had the place more prepped or something which implies they took a risk rushing things rather than making them secure. They also likely didnt expect someone like Ryland to make a move like that which is likely the only reason it probably could have worked in the first place.

> >

> > To be honest I'm a fan of the charr and while his death did bother many other fans it hardly bothered me considering how he acted the episode before. I also never played the iron legion personal story more than once so to me Smodur was not all that 'Great" or "Likable" to me. I know he pops up in some other points before and after hot and during PoF etc but still he is not this amazing character that everyone seems to go on about to me. I saw his death or some kind of punishment coming at a future date the moment he killed Cinder in the previous episode. My bet was going to be that him and Efram throw hands or that Ryland gets him back.. looks like Ryland got him back lol.

> >

> > Some people also pointed out that from a technical stand point it would have been strategically better for Ryland to shoot any other person at that table other than Smodur which is likely true but then it really would have just been a random death with no effect that really triggered that cause. At we know that Smodur was the cause of Rylands effective actions in that moment which does make sense to me.

>

> Killing anybody but Smodur wouldn't have made sense, frankly.

>

> A: Smodur killed the last person in Ryland's warband. His last "family" member.

> B: Smodur is the Iron Imperator, and Iron is the bulk of the United Legion's firepower. Killing him could throw Iron into chaos possibly.

> C: Bangar knows Smodur would be the best person to take down his defenses with Artillery commands. Killing Smodur weakens the enemy because a strong leader is removed.

It depends on how you look at it I guess.

Technically speaking though lets assume he had shot someone else.

Smodur rushes in blindly without any conrtrol and fails the assault because bangar knows his plans and methods like the back of his hand.

From a technical stand point if ryland had shot someone else it would have likely limited alternative options that could have been taken aside form the straight forward assault for example. Thats how im looking at it.

But in terms of having a reason too shoot someone it does make sense that Ryland would shoot Smodur without question.

> @"Norentic.4762" said:

> A great charracter we got since lw2 got killed like nothing, he depops after few seconds, although he did more in the whole story than eir.

> I am quite salty by his death, sniping must be easy in tyria since tyrand succeeded despite the camp being monitored by malice and ash legion

To be fair its not exactly like he was that far away he prob could have shot him in the head with a pistol form that distance and got the same result. So im not sure why you have to say sniping must be easy. He is a warrior and Warriors do have skill called kill shot which by all means way back in the times of core days killed other players all the time if they didnt dodge it. There is no reason to suggest he would have proper rifle skills in the first place.

As far as Malice and the others they did say that they should have had the place more prepped or something which implies they took a risk rushing things rather than making them secure. They also likely didnt expect someone like Ryland to make a move like that which is likely the only reason it probably could have worked in the first place.

To be honest I'm a fan of the charr and while his death did bother many other fans it hardly bothered me considering how he acted the episode before. I also never played the iron legion personal story more than once so to me Smodur was not all that 'Great" or "Likable" to me. I know he pops up in some other points before and after hot and during PoF etc but still he is not this amazing character that everyone seems to go on about to me. I saw his death or some kind of punishment coming at a future date the moment he killed Cinder in the previous episode. My bet was going to be that him and Efram throw hands or that Ryland gets him back.. looks like Ryland got him back lol.

Some people also pointed out that from a technical stand point it would have been strategically better for Ryland to shoot any other person at that table other than Smodur which is likely true but then it really would have just been a random death with no effect that really triggered that cause. At we know that Smodur was the cause of Rylands effective actions in that moment which does make sense to me.

I think making something similar to the new mount stealth skill would be ok.

IT makes you a shadowy dark cloud thats not technically totally invisible.

But lets say if it hid your health bar and name and prevented you from being clicked on or tab targeted for its duration but still left you open to vulnerable aoe skills that might actually be good enough for a lesser type of stealth for something like the necromancer.

Basically it would act as a target break and target denial which would have some defensive capability against certain weapon kits but it would be a far cry from something like thief stealth as you could just follow the cloud of darkness with your eyes to know where the person is moving etc.

Ive been saying it for a while now this game needs 2 versions of stealth.

The true version which is basically what everyone can get currently and a lesser version which is more or less just target breaking and obscuring effect.

I think a true stealth on necromancer would probably be a bit too annoying for most people to deal with and they would complain about it till it was nerfed into being unusable anyways. That said if anet continues to make elites without the shroud mechanic there needs to be other meichanical skills that make up for not having that shroud. Thats why we saw scourge vanish from compeitive for well over a year because they robbed it of way too much while everyone else still had way too much.

If core cant have abilities like true stealth, evades, blocks, etc. then elite specs without the shroud mechanic which makes up for the lack of those tools should not even be considered without giving them those tools within the traits, weapon skills, and utilities of the elite.

To be honest with there are alot of charr fans who felt the same way for episodes 1,2 because those were actually heavily norn and kodan focused while charr got pushed aside. Now with episode 3 and 4 they went back to focusing on charr for a bit (not in the way that everyone is happy with) but its a thing.

Both races are honestly not focused on very well and some characters just pop in way too fast without proper introduction or background as to who they actually are (even if they have technically existed in lore for some time now).

My guess is that the next patch likely will look at all three in some way or might be heavily norn/kodan focused seeing as of how the way episode 4 ends (no spoilers here though)

> @"Derm.4932" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"CinnaTree.8071" said:

> > > Seems like boneskinner vial drops are somewhat related to having crafted an empowered boneskinner weapon. After crafting my staff, I stopped receiving any boneskinner vials from boneskinner kills. So unless Anet has fixed this, I suggest people who wish to craft more than one empowere boneskinner weapons to get enough to make multiple ones before starting to craft.

> >

> > Same issue and ive ran into some other people who also had the same problem craft one weapon and you stop getting them as drops ive ran 5 or 6 gold strikes now after making the focus and have not gotten anything

>

> same

I submitted a ticket asking about this and was told that its really random drop chance apparently.

But making like 4 runs before making a single weapon where every single attempt gold and silver awarded me with vials and then after making the weapon and 5-6 gold attempts award none certainly does not feel like random. I did note that other players who also said they were not getting any vials also had made at least one of the weapons but I guess unless more players pop up with this issue or one of us can confirm that it is really random all we can do is keep trying.

> @"CinnaTree.8071" said:

> Seems like boneskinner vial drops are somewhat related to having crafted an empowered boneskinner weapon. After crafting my staff, I stopped receiving any boneskinner vials from boneskinner kills. So unless Anet has fixed this, I suggest people who wish to craft more than one empowere boneskinner weapons to get enough to make multiple ones before starting to craft.

Same issue and ive ran into some other people who also had the same problem craft one weapon and you stop getting them as drops ive ran 5 or 6 gold strikes now after making the focus and have not gotten anything

The only thing i can say is like some one else said for Mirage at least

Split ambushes away from the dodge mechanic

Make shatters the new ambush attacks which prevents them from being spammed without at least some trait/utility investment.

Something new will have to become of mirage cloake but it no longer would act as the standard dodge or ambush trigger.

Then you can give them their 2nd dodge back but it returns to the normal roll dodge instead

There can never be a moment where dodging during cc or while under a cc effect is acceptable even more so on spec thats ideally suppose to be hard to catch But when caught it shouldnt be able to just dodge out of any situation or follow up situation if the cc effect is still applied.

If you asked me chorno should have been more focused on phantoms perhaps giving phantoms the power to continue to perform their attacks more than one time without the need of choronophantasma and even be shattered after at least performing their attacks once or something. I cant say what most people like or how they like to play their mesmers so i wont go that deep into it. I just miss the old sword phantom that could poke my targets several times on a single use.

As far as condition goes that shouldnt be as bursty as it is or was in the past when it was even higher than it is now. Burst condition is unhealth for this game in pvp its fine in pve where you kind of expect it but considering condition builds often allow for more sustain with an option for more defense stat wise they shouldnt be as bursty or more bursty as power options. Thats something to keep in mind.

Some of the ideas ive read here are busted tho. Considering anets current record of balance if many of the ideas ive read went live they would be nerfed in a week/months time from being over used just like many of the current skills are getting nerfed now. Some times its better to not suggest changes to things that are not meta or in high use because their reworks are some times worse than what they currently are. The flip side to these things also is that some of the changes would require both a pve and pvp change it wouldnt be just boostin damage which would make the skills arguably worse in pve but better for the sake of pvp....

I would say it was a combo of all the things you listed.

Nades certainly were over performing and they might still be even with these reductions

Explosive entrance needs to be like other on hit minors (no ability to crit)

Flash bang would have probably been better getting a internal icd similar to the ele blind on burn trait rather than a duration nerf.

But welcome to the club

Every other profession has been getting this kind of treatment i know my main one of choice has for some time now i dont see why engi should be an exception.

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> Maybe blanket nerfing all hard CC's to .01 power scaling was always a kind of stupid idea in the first place.

I can only partly agree with this there were certainly some CC skills doing way too much when you get stunned for 2s and take 8k damage at the same time thats a bit insane.....

Going no crit for the majority of them would have probably been better. Some of them certainly do need to be at the .01 power scaling though.

Then you have the odd ball ones like Reaper 5 and Warrior Headbutt that actually certainly and more than likely should still do damage. But if we are going to keep things more in line going forward i would rather see other changes maybe if the damage is not coming back. The moment one or two professions get a nice chunk of damage back on some of the slower big tell CC's is the day people start to complain about how unfair those CC skills are.

> @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > @"Kodama.6453" said:

> > > > @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> > > > A CC skill that has damage will do damage even if the target has stability.

> > > >

> > > > If you fear a target with stability they take no damage.

> > > >

> > > > It is in line.

> > >

> > > You realise that for hard CC skills, we are literally talking about like 14 crit damage in berserker gear?

> > >

> > > Don't see terror as an issue, but this is not really an argument here.

> >

> > That's my whole point.

> >

> > You haven't understood.

> >

> > My point was that Terror is not an issue because if it doesn't CC (i.e. the target has stability) then no damage will happen, and no CC will happen, the same as other CC skills that land on stability.

>

> How is that the same?

>

> If another hard CC skill hits, then you get cced, but the skill itself still does no damage because they changed all the power coefficients to 0,01.

> If fear lands with terror on the other hand, then both cc and damage happen. Because terror makes that hard cc skill deal actual damage while other hard cc skills won't deal any.

Because you have to give up path of corruption for Terror it means less boon corrupting power in the necormancers kit to eat your boons.

Fear damage requires 2 traits to be made effective from 2 different traitlines.

Not only do you need Terror you also need Fear of death to actually make it do any damage thats relevant

Thats two traits to make a conditional cc which has more counters than any other cc type in the game do damage for 1.5 - 2s at best.

Fun fact did you know fear can be removed with a weapon swap (you cant remove stuns or dazes with weapon swaps) and several weapon skills that are instant can still be used while under the fear condition unlike while under hard cc like stuns /daze

Resistance makes fear not work

Stability also makes fear not work (i dont recommend it against necromancers)

Maybe if you ask they will give your cc damage back the only twist is that you must take 2 traits way out of the way of what you would normally build to make them do damage.

> @"JusticeRetroHunter.7684" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"Demonhead.7584" said:

> > > > > Vampiric Rituals was one of the few traits in BM line that made running wells worth the while.

> > > >

> > > > and now Anet changed wells to free up this trait slot that you don't have to take to make wells worth the while. Honestly, does anyone read the patch notes?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The issue with that is the reason people ran wells was because it was utility that provide protection and minor sustain via life leech effect.

> > > Both were removed with the loss of the trait making wells more or less just damage in most cases.

> >

> > Right ... no one isn't saying their isn't a trade off here or it doesn't impact players. The fact that Vampiric Rituals was one of the few traits in BM line that made running wells worth the while is exactly why this change had to happen .. BM has been pretty kitten for many years and wells haven't exactly been a popular choice. If Anet is going to fix EITHER of these things, these are the kinds of changes that need to be made. It's nothing exceptional ... I've seen it happen to many classes over the years.

> >

> > Frankly, I HATED the idea that I HAD to take that trait for wells to be worth using ... or that I had to take BM JUST for that trait if I wanted to run wells. Neither of those things feels good.

> >

>

> Agreed. The trait itself wasn’t even that good. For the trait to be useful it requires your Wells to hit all their targets so the life siphon can be high enough to do some actual sustain. In most cases you aren’t going to hit enough targets and for this reason it was underwhelming.

Dont get me wrong i would widely accept the idea that we are making wells better to use without feeling like you need the trait to use them.

I would be glad if they did this for staff to by making some base life force gen on the marks a baseline thing so dont feel tied to soul marks trait for example.

But when you do that and say you are going to compensate by making the skills better in some way (in this case) it was lowering the base cooldown and leaving off other mechanics that alone was acceptable enough. But then you move the cooldowns back up so that most of the wells actually just saw a loss mechanically. They could have just left the cooldown changes out of the patch notes instead of teasing everyone with the idea that was going to make it "acceptable".

This is also the second time anet has done this as noted they did it before with spectral skills too and in the case of those skills not all of them were improved at baseline when the trait to boost them was removed (spectral armor) we then later saw a cooldown increase to those skills in competitive modes including spectral armor even though it never got any base improvements to start with.

I dont want QoL that comes with low key side nerfs a patch or hotfix later that borderline makes the skills about as effective as they were as if you just didnt take traits for them before their tied traits were removed from the game.

Every QoL change for necro should not be following this pattern. But its twice now they have done it and it really rubs me the wrong way at least in competitive modes. These are just my personal feelings and they might not apply to everyone and you dont have to agree with them of course im just putting it out there though.

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Demonhead.7584" said:

> > Vampiric Rituals was one of the few traits in BM line that made running wells worth the while.

>

> and now Anet changed wells to free up this trait slot that you don't have to take to make wells worth the while. Honestly, does anyone read the patch notes?

>

>

The issue with that is the reason people ran wells was because it was utility that provide protection and minor sustain via life leech effect.

Both were removed with the loss of the trait making wells more or less just damage in most cases.

Anet was going to compensate by making them better to use with any build by reducing their cooldowns with the idea that they still wouldn't give protection or life leech.

Now the cooldowns are going back up in competitive modes and the mechanical effects are also no longer in the game which objectively makes them worse to use with the majority of builds. Because the main reason you brought them was for the sustain zone control and sustain increased synergy. Without the bonus mechanics and the skills having higher cooldowns they are mostly worth less than they were before regardless of the build you run. The only real improvement is well of darkness. Every other well at this point is worth less than it was before. If you are going to remove a trait for utility skills then compensate the skills in some way that makes since to the mechanics the trait provided at a base level. If you dont do that then you are not making the skills better to be used with other builds you just made a trait line worth less and the skills harder to use with other builds. It was sneaky way of nerfing blood magic and wells all together and thats what upsets me and several other people. The same can nearly be said for signets specifically vamp signet's passive.

They also wanted to improve signets but left plague signet horrible in terms of its passive they really kind screwed this one up.

Welp i said this would happen just like with spectral skills and it happened now we have yet another niche trait that wont widely be used in competitive modes and lesser effective wells than before with well of darkness being the only well that is actually an improvement.

No more protection

No more life leech

Higher cooldowns.

Hard nerf written in patch note code to make it look like a QoL improvement.

Now people will still complain about shroud when they lose to a necro despite well nerfs and the majority of what was also signet nerfs.

> @"Milosz.5938" said:

> I'm watching at this changes from perspective of elementalist (my main). And what I can say "Hmm"... This "transfer" in fire looks nice and I'm very curious how it will work. Reducing of Healing rain looks nice... Thank you for that.

>

> Now... painful part ^&^' Looking at Necro I almost lost my consciousness... It sounds like you guys never played against Necro... and making them now as GODs of killing and at the same time su...ing all health from around enemies. All wells recharge reduction and power up - pfffff. and once more PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

> I wanted put more "Pff"

> Thank you for informing us about those changes.

Keep in mind Wells lost several things

Wells no longer have a trait to boost them

Wells no longer give protection to the necro or allies

Wells no longer succ life from enemy players to heal the necro

Wells got lower base cd

A Well of darkness lost its unblockable feature for damage and chill application

Technically speaking well of suffering and well of blood are taking a minor nerf here if you consider them currently when using the vamp ritual trait

Both their cooldowns go to 24s and the new cooldown will be 25 once again they also are losing the protection and life succ mechanics.

Well of darkness is an out right buff i wont argue this but no one uses it currently which should be a good thing. When invalid skills are made optionally viable thats not a bad thing just keep an eye on it though to make sure its not too much.

Well of corruption is basically going to be unchanged no damage buffs the cd with the trait currently vs after the patch will be the same 32s and it lost the fuctionality of being able to life succ and give protection when triated.

Considering almost every necro is currently running blood magic many of these wells are going to actually taking considerable nerfs mechanically for a better base cd. that is more or less the same as the current trait boosted wells which will do more from a mechanical standpoint with more or less the same cooldown.

Vamp signet after the patch passively leaches from 1 player only traited 2 players and only when shroud is active will the 2 player part work.

I would say they greatly reduced the life succ going into the next patch.

Then again if you are an ele main i can see how this looks nightmare ish to you. Necro has always hard countered ele and these changes wont make that any less of a counter matchup.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Donari.5237" said:

> > I'm approaching this as a PvE player who mouse-moves and thus has real problems dropping multiple shades (I use snap-to-target, which is great for one aoe, terrible for placing elsewhere). From that viewpoint, the return to necro-location shade effects is *wonderful* since I trait to use just one giant shade anyway and now I can move my body to somewhere else to get barrier or deal with small things harassing me while I work on the big target.

> >

> > But I see from comments that people who can drop multiple shades have been a problem in competitive modes, so I have a couple of spit-ball ideas.

> >

> > Disable necro-location effects in competitive modes.

> > OR disable necro-location effects when using the three-shades version of the skill, those three spots should be enough.

> > OR disable necro-location effects when the necro is inside a shade's area of effect so it doesn't go to 10 targets as people are complaining about.

> >

> > Just some possibilities, people who understand the mechanics and problems of the shades might easily poke holes in them.

>

> The main reason it was nerfed in the first place was due to the coverage, the secondary reason was the damage and conditions. ANet bring back the coverage and keep everything else, so players will complain. Bringing back the self shade isn't a bad thing in itself, however the area denial philosophy of the mechanic need to go if they want such a move to be accepted. Let's hope that amongst the unlisted change it is adressed.

Renegade spirits would like to have a word with you first. Thats far more obnoxious than scourge area denial at the moment.

Area denial is not an issue its how easy it is to get locked in area denial.

Scourges cripple was more effect than a reapers chill and took far less skill to apply.

A shade pops up under your feet means crippled.

any f skill = more cripple

a wide range of other necro skills = more cripple

When cripple becomes stronger than chill in movement lockdown then thats an issue imo.

As someone else pointed out now that the cripple is more or less gone the shades generally might not be an issue in the area denial department.

Scourge still has limited defenses due to not having a shroud and having a utility kit that does not fully make up for not having a shroud. Overall i think this is needed otherwise you wont see people playing scourge. They already said that they didnt want to solve problems by smiting something into the region of being unplayable which it seems this patch is some what trying to undo particularly with scourge and chrono.

Truth is the idea of having shades that do no damage at all is impractical for competitive play no other professions even the supportive ones work this way

Druid still has cc and damage in its CA kit

Tempest still has damage in its overload kit

Renegade still has cc and damage in its kit

Firebrand still has cc and damage in its kit

All of the above which are considered support or offensive support specs.

Why should scourge be the only off. support spec to not have damage in its f skill and utility kit?

Better yet why should it be encouraged not to summon shades when it has minor traits based around having the shades up?

Overall undone this change was one of the better changes anet could have ever done. IF the damage needs to be reduced slightly thats a different story but to say there shouldnt be any makese no sense to say that area denial shouldnt be a thing in a mmo rpg when almost every other mmo rpg has classes that focus on those things also makes no sense.

I really cant understand what you want necro to be sometimes. These are just my thoughts you dont have to agree with them.

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Jski.6180" said:

> > Looked good till i saw the necro update what dose this class get such a free ride?

>

> It's worse than that, it make the necromancer slightly weaker where he needed help and stronger where he was already close to be broken. This make no sense at all, it's like adding fuel to the complaints.

I dont agree with this considering many others got the same treatment alls fair in this round imo.

Several other changes on other professions this round seem to be reverting or targeting things they were already good at and likely didnt need buffs to there is no reason not to hold one specific profession to be the exception imo.

The changes look neat i just hope you wont nerf wells in 3 months and lave them without a trait to bring them back to a fair ish place like what was done with some of the spectral skills. They got improved at base when the trait was removed then the cds got nerfed to be higher than they ever were and they still lack a trait to enhance them from a pvp perspective.

Overall i like that i can now take a signet trait with spiteful spirit or close to death.

I dislike blood bank though. In my head at least in pvp it seems like a trait that wont feel like its very active the moment you take any damage vs vamp rituals which effected wells. Its also a major loss of protection uptime and raw healing. I guess this was done to get every necromancer and their mother off the blood magic line though and back on other things.

I would have just liked to see blood bank do more than something when you might be at full hp vs the majority of the time in competitive modes thats exactly where you wont be as a necromancer.

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > > Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

> > >

> > > Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

> > >

> > > Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

> >

> > I kinda want to point out some things to be a bit clearer i suppose. My issue is less with the ability to share auras and more with the auras themselves sharing them is kind of just a tempest thing which is fine.

> >

> > Keep in mind that shocking aura has more sources than simply air overload so simply saying interrupt air overload does not apply in all cases where you might see it used.

> > Aura sharing is fine but the auras themselves (some of them) are too strong. Bluntly the two you called out shocking and magnetic which should probably have a fixed number of triggers before they fall off instead of running full duration's.

> >

> > If it were personally up to me shocking aura would vanish immediately after someone proc'ed it a single time but its not up to me.

>

> So people want to nerf auras. Thats what this thread sounds like it's heading towards. The class mechanic of core Ele is no where near OP or in need of nerfs. In fact, only 2/4 auras are being complained about.

>

Auras might be a problem so its not really a surprise. But the game is still in a messy state right now too so thats also something to consider.

The class mechanic of core ele is having a fluid play style and basically stance swapping through the elements the auras are technically not a unique mehcanic to ele only. Other professions have had access to some auras since the core game through combo finishers. While they are certainly a staple part of the elementalist profession i wouldn't consider them a "core mechanic" The core mechanic is swapping through different elemental stances and having 20 weapon skills any single weapon set technically.

> Shocking and magnetic aura are defenses that stop melee and range attacks. That's it. 4 sec duration.

> On other classes, there are literally skills in this game that force players to stop attacking all together. There are skills, that when triggered, force players to dodge and run like kitten! Auras don't do that. They only force players to change the way they are attacking. Not to stop attacking all together.

I need you to read what you wrote here carefully.

Shocking aura and Magnetic aura stop melee and ranged attacks respectively...

Other skills in the game force players to stop attacking all together.....

Auras dont do that....

Sorry but those two auras do exactly that for at least specifically melee and ranged attacks respectively. Of course you can opt to attack regardless which results in you being punished like many of those other skills in the game you can find on other professions. This is nothing new.

> Auras are literally the only defense Ele has left aside from boons. Don't nerf them, learn how to counter them

Dont agree here.

Ele has evades, blocks, and invuln skills along side those auras to sit and say Auras are the only defense a bit of a blunt a lie. They are certainly a part of the defenses but to say they are the only defenses along side boons is a bit false.

This is besides the point though if auras remained strongest on ele thats fine by me my issue is those same auras once shared on other professions are likely stronger than they should be. You dont have to agree but im leaving it at that.

> @"Lilyanna.9361" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > > @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > > Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

> > >

> > > Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

> > >

> > > Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

> >

> > I kinda want to point out some things to be a bit clearer i suppose. My issue is less with the ability to share auras and more with the auras themselves sharing them is kind of just a tempest thing which is fine.

> >

> > Keep in mind that shocking aura has more sources than simply air overload so simply saying interrupt air overload does not apply in all cases where you might see it used.

> > Aura sharing is fine but the auras themselves (some of them) are too strong. Bluntly the two you called out shocking and magnetic which should probably have a fixed number of triggers before they fall off instead of running full duration's.

> >

> > If it were personally up to me shocking aura would vanish immediately after someone proc'ed it a single time but its not up to me.

>

> Shocking was the way it was for a long time because everyone and their mother literally blasted the kitten class into out space even with 17k health and heals. Hell, even now, someone can do the same thing as soon as someone drops poison on you cutting your healing by a GOOD portion. So if you take away two originally DEFENSIVE auras that were meant to stop the brainless power range builds (SB and deadeye) and the brainless builds that let you go bonkers in melee range (literally either condi or power) what will tempest have left as an ACTIVE defense? If you nerf auras, that class deserves some sort of compensation in their core areas, PERIOD, because that point you are hitting both CORE and TEMPEST.

Careful what you call brainless is all i have to say you currently have people running around on weaver splattering cc to do damage and shocking aura is also a part of that too. Every profession or most of them have something that some one can consider brainless. Heck even weaver in the past just had to press stances and run at a player with pulsing burning aoes to win. It certainly didnt always work but it was effective enough for people to run it commonly in pvp.

I wont go too far down the road of what you consider to be brainless and what you dont because it seems off topic and really serves no purpose but no doubt some people see certain auras as problematic. You dont have to agree if you dont want to though.

> @"Aria Lliane.8693" said:

> > @"ZDragon.3046" said:

> > imo

> >

> > **1 Elementalist (specifically the elites and Lightning Rod)**

> > tl;dr Tempest needs nerfs ever since the overall nerf patch dropped and 2v2 revealed just how strong they were.

>

> For years less and less people are playing Elementalist for all the consecutive nerfs.

> Last December patch was the most impactfull.

> The February 2v2 patch made even more people leave the class. Right now no one enjoys playing the class, there's only a few left.

> I don't get your point. I would prefer my team to have 2 revenants, 2 guardians, 2 necros, 2 mesmers or 2 rangers any day to any 2 ele combo.

I dont understand this bit a 2 ele combo... no one does that you dont need that you only needed 1. having 2 tempest often causes deminishing returns to the team overall so there is never a reason to to have 2 of them and when there are 2 of them thats when you see things fall apart. 1 tempest is all you ever would really need on a team so im confused by the point you are trying to make here.

> If you are here because some Tempest kicked ya but in pvp, then give him a medal, hats off to him\her.

Im not here for that but o...k....

Solo Tempest is a not an issue.

In fact solo most professions are not "that" big of any issue no one is really trying to go down that road so im not sure why you suggested the idea of that.

Im simply saying that certain auras are strong and the ability to share them as they currently are makes them very potent.

> I would really love to see a chart of the amount of players playing each class every day in pvp, and the % of games won per class.

Im sure we all would not that it would matter to be honest. Games being won and loss depend on many variables and while players playing each class might suggest to some extent whats favored and whats not its not a effective way to determine if something is over-performing alone you would need more than just players playing each class and games won per class. There are some players to opt to stick to their favs regardless if they are doing good or bad in the meta and others who play everything because they dont favor anything.

I suppose if anything i could have made it more clear what im pointing at with tempest was the auras in their current state and tempest just happens to be where you see the strongest auras being utilized the most. If anything I could have simply said (the auras are too strong in their current designed state) and left tempest out of the equation.

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> Tempest and aura share is fine. As someone else mentioned, try playing the class and you'll realize how tough it is to play and easy to counter.

>

> Lightning aura is frustrating so either you interrupt the air overload or start attacking in range.

>

> Magnetic aura is frustrating too especially since it's near impossible interrupting earth overload. Best counter is melee or conditions, which every class can either do one or both.

I kinda want to point out some things to be a bit clearer i suppose. My issue is less with the ability to share auras and more with the auras themselves sharing them is kind of just a tempest thing which is fine.

Keep in mind that shocking aura has more sources than simply air overload so simply saying interrupt air overload does not apply in all cases where you might see it used.

Aura sharing is fine but the auras themselves (some of them) are too strong. Bluntly the two you called out shocking and magnetic which should probably have a fixed number of triggers before they fall off instead of running full duration's.

If it were personally up to me shocking aura would vanish immediately after someone proc'ed it a single time but its not up to me.

imo

**1 Elementalist (specifically the elites and Lightning Rod)**

Tempest has needed aura nerfs ever since the overall nerf patch dropped and 2v2 revealed just how strong they were.

3v3 came along and tempest were still the bane of it.

Basically right now in 5v5 having tempest on your team is overall a gift from the gods because it tips the odds in your favor considerably if they other team does not have one.

AURA SHARE IS WAY TOO STRONG WITH THE CURRENT STATE OF THE GAME!

things like shocking aura and magnetic aura should have a fixed number triggers and once those are used the aura fades. Shocking aura in pvp likely shouldnt last more than a single hit at least when shared with allies.

Lightning rod is a bit over the top for just throwing out CC's imo the trait should be changed to on interrupt instead of on cc hit. Simply chaining cc's one after another for burst damage and weakness application at the same time is not going to be healthy in the long run. Please dont forget to nerf the earth shield it hits obnoxiously hard because it was basically untouched it is a niche thing but still not something that should be ignored.

**2 Engi (Holo and Scrapper or specifically explosives.)**

NADES NADES NADES simply put skills 2 but mainly 4 and 5 are doing way too much dps for the heavy condition application that goes with them. Its one thing to want to dodge certain skills but when all the options deal such insane amounts of damage nades have become the avoid all of them or just take tons of damage staple.

Nade Barrage doing up to 12k (from stealth) is not healthy skill 2 doing 6k and skills 4 and 5 doing roughly 4-5k are also not if tool belt nade burst was the only skill i had to worry about it wouldnt even be upset about it but all of them do such insane amounts of damage it leaves me questioning how anet has not looked into it yet.

Explosive entrance and Flash-bang

Explosive entrance needs to lose its ability to crit if its going to be something that refreshes on dodge. Flash-bang needs a ICD its more obnoxious than ele's blind on burn application trait.

**3 General**

I dont really have a 3rd profession to list i think the rest is more so dealing with the issue that condition damage specifically burst condition is heavily outshining power options right now. I even question if burst condition should be in the game at all. All conditions should be a ramp that slowly works up to doing a sustained amount of damage not something you can land instantly and within 2s the other player is at half hp. I would like to see more professions get burst condition cut considerably and more effort looked at slow ramp and sustained condition damage. I dare say that at this point burst condition application should not exist in the game with power burst sitting where it is on most professions.

Overall there are still many busted professions or overturned skills and things etc in pvp and if they exists in pvp they are no doubt worse in wvw where you can opt for higher stats and better rune / sigil choices.

While herald rev is "interestingly" strong there are far more broken things in my eyes in terms of just raw damage burst that exist right now especially on some of those professions that have access to stealth to make the burst damage have 0 or very little tell.

Note i do not endorse the idea of nerfing rev just cause necro got jumped by 2 of them usually getting jumped by 2 of any class puts you at a considerable disadvantage and in most cases you likely will / should go down unless there is a massive skill gap between you and at least one or both of the other individuals.

Still tho @"LazySummer.2568" makes some very good points about rev in general when specifically looking at herald.

Rev weapons would like to have a word with you. about submitting their clunky/bug claims before DH Longbow.

Warrior rifle would also like to submit a claim after that