idolin.2831

> @"Blood Red Arachnid.2493" said:

> 4: Roaming Warriors. Strangely. If built right, they can be even bulkier and harder hitting, so I have to get creative to beat a power Spellbreaker.

>

I'm curious as to what builds you're referring too. I only know of 2 popular builds - Daggerbreaker and Tetherbreaker, but I don't normally lose to Spellbreakers because their attacks are quite telegraphed and they're melee oriented, and as long as you have a stun break available and/or are able to get out of melee range after sword 3 or sword 5, you can deal damage quite safely. That might no longer apply with the new sword 4, but still even using axe OH spellbreaker isn't too much of a problem.

In general I find rev to be pretty good against power builds, if played right of course.

I've had more success running axe OH in WvW. It's less predictable (axe 4 surprised a good amount of people), has a good CC (gotta bait dodges first though, axe 5 is fairly obvious), and in general is just way faster and more fluid and allows me to kite better.

Given that the cast time of Shackling Wave is 1s now, it's fairly easy to just move out of the way, dodge, or interrupt, or even deal damage then dodge - especially in fights against warriors (with the amount of CC they have), holo (quickness + any holo skills), thieves (core s/d most notably with sword 2), since in those fights I usually have to be quick and precise in landing the bursts, and it's much harder with the new Shackling Wave. That window of 1s makes revs too vulnerable.

> @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> It happened at least 3x tonight. Death or re-enter map can fix it, but it's super annoying (especially if you play a healing herald).

> It's clearly a bug to me and it only happen after recent patch.

> Problem is I haven't figure out what triggered this bug. I guess I am not the only one who get this problem, so if anyone experience the same issue and figure how it triggered, please post and we can submit a bug report.

> https://i.imgur.com/7ys13Hm.jpg

Apart from the WvW ranks looking different in the party UI (it's supposed to be 1K or 2K if the rank is above 1000 for me), I don't see anything wrong. Was that the bug you referred to?

Eh - then I could see people complaining about WvW devs not focusing on the alliance update and instead spending time adding "useless" things. I'd like to be positive and think they don't do that since they're focusing on the alliance update.

> @"rugerra.2351" said:

> > @"Sleepwalker.1398" said:

> > Is there any new update of when this will be implemented?

> > Players in my server are leaving in numbers and we are starting to struggle in fielding players.

>

> It will never make it into the game. Raymond is a super nice guy and the only person at Anet that I trust, but he's only person working on the restructuring and only works on it part time.

Where did you get this information?

> @"Duckota.4769" said:

> Honestly I thought it'd be cool if they made the shiro shadowstep instant. So like thief can do flanking strike/steal combo... you could do shackling/shiro gap closer combo to land this if they kite. Or initiate with it. I'm sure you could think of all sorts of other need combo's with that as well.

Nah that's just too good - I main a rev but I'd call for a nerf if that was to implemented. We can already chain Phase into Deathstrike from range 1800.

I feel like 1s of cast time is too long, and it's a bit too much when coupled with the animation. I'd be fine with reducing damage a bit and keeping the animation, but reducing the cast time.

This trait has been disabled (as stated in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62880/trait-disabled-11-december-2018 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62880/trait-disabled-11-december-2018")) to fix an issue with it.

It looks like the trait heals every second for each point of upkeep, but also retains its former function (heals when struck) - tested by @"WraithOfStealth.1624" [here](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/766369/#Comment_766369 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/766369/#Comment_766369").

> @"Eugchriss.2046" said:

> As nobody mention rev, I ll do. Increasing sword #4 is in my opinion a bad idea. 1s of cast time is really huge. I rather prefer having it nerfed by 20-33% that increasing it s cast time.

> (nerfing one of the few skills rev has because people are focusing on what they are doing instead of what the ennemy is doing....Let me guess, next patch Phase Traversal will get nerfed too)

Right now it's so clunky to use. I'm guessing the balance team want to promote counter play but sword 4 is the main burst skill - now it's more like a dodge bait and not a burst skill since it's so obvious. Also rev already has a little window of time to burst down the opponent in between the opponent's damage avoidance tool, it's even harder to cast this without being counter-attacked or interrupted.

Also this comes without a buff to anything else for power Rev except for Shiro F2, but even then it is still not worth keeping F2 up given how energy hungry Shiro already is. No buff to axe or shield or sustain. Steadfast Rejuvenation is bugged and on the Grandmaster tier of Retribution which nobody takes - if we do we'll give up the damage from Devastation.

I've never cared too much about PvE but seeing the hype about Wintersday makes me want to try it out. Could anyone give like a summary of what I can do for Wintersday, especially stuff that can be soloed, since I don't have friends in GW2 (not PvE anyway)?

> @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > > @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> > > I don't really get what's the purpose of these changes to Revenant.

> > >

> > > 1. I understand why they nerfed OH Sword. Why do guys in PvE have to suffer?

> > >

> > > 2. I'm looking forward to seeing the OH Sword being reworked once again. We know that it can't be like this forever, this is a very poor design and a gap-filler for class.

> > >

> >

> > I'm relatively new to rev but why does OH sword needs another rework? It's the reason why rev's good now in PvP and small scale WvW (maybe not so much anymore after the nerf) - wouldn't a buff to axe and shield promote better build diversity for power rev? If a rework on OH sword happens and it's no good I don't know what's Rev role in PvP anymore, unless there are buffs to other aspects to compensate.

> >

> > As for the nerf to sword 4, I'm curious to hear why ANet doesn't want to reduce the damage in PvP and WvW to not affect PvE (which imo is the more obvious solution), but instead doubles the cast time. I guess it can promote counter-play, but the thing is in PvP many other skills more or less serve to bait dodges for sword 4, like glint elite, shiro elite, elemental blast. As for the other sword skills, sword 5 is hard to land against decent players (who know to dodge when the rev ports in next to them - which is used sometimes to, again, bait dodges to land sword 4), sword 2 deals so little damage (in PvP), and sword 3 puts the rev right next to the opponent, which is in many cases quite suicidal. Sword 4's cast time now is even longer than the duration of a dodge - meaning the opponent will have time to avoid it even if the rev manages to bait the dodge.

> >

> > It might be better with quickness, but Rev's sources of quickness are Phase Traversal - which costs too much energy to use just to land sword 4, brutality - requires the rev to be switch to sword/sword from staff to get quickness - I've never liked this trait and AA seems to be much better for sustain, and Sigil of Agility - which again requires the rev to be on staff beforehand or swap legends to proc, but this one's actually not so bad (although in WvW the sigil only gives 1s of quickness :anguished: ). Plus boons are harder to maintain now, given the nerfs to concentration in Herald, Leadership runes, and the F2 rework (which was slightly buffed today except for Glint F2 - the elite spec's legend!!!).

> >

> > Lastly it might be an attempt to tone down power creeps across all classes - this I have no idea about since I only play Ele and Rev, and everyone knows where Ele stands in competitive game modes.

> >

> >

>

> My problem with Revenant's OH Sword is the overall poor design of it. It doesn't provide anything imteresting to the playstyle of Rev like axe did on the release. It's just a straight gap-filler damage tool after its rework.

> Don't get me wrong - I do like the fact that Sword in both hands can be used offensively. But not like this.

> About the PvP. Doesn't it feel like Rev is relying on this OH Sword damage too much now? I understand your concerns but this is a reason why OH Sword needs its own fresh playstyle. With the delay on 4 with cc and teleport followed by nearly instant burst of damage it's just too similar to Axe. That's why in my opinion the OH Sword should be rethinked and made fresh.

> I agree on the rest of things you said and I'm very curious to see what will ANet do with this. I AM, however, very happy to see changes made to other classes. Adding **non-crit system** to traits is a great idea. A little Scrapper is finally getting up. Let's see what's to come next.

That makes sense. I didn't play rev before the OH sword rework but I thought a block on sword 4 was really interesting. I guess to me OH sword was too good to not use, too good to make me not care about it not having a clear identity/being too similar to axe. Now that sword 4 is gutted I'll probably try axe again - I just tried the new sword 4 and it felt horrible, the nerf ruined the playstyle, the feeling for me.

> @"DonArkanio.6419" said:

> I don't really get what's the purpose of these changes to Revenant.

>

> 1. I understand why they nerfed OH Sword. Why do guys in PvE have to suffer?

>

> 2. I'm looking forward to seeing the OH Sword being reworked once again. We know that it can't be like this forever, this is a very poor design and a gap-filler for class.

>

I'm relatively new to rev but why does OH sword needs another rework? It's the reason why rev's good now in PvP and small scale WvW (maybe not so much anymore after the nerf) - wouldn't a buff to axe and shield promote better build diversity for power rev? If a rework on OH sword happens and it's no good I don't know what's Rev role in PvP anymore, unless there are buffs to other aspects to compensate.

As for the nerf to sword 4, I'm curious to hear why ANet doesn't want to reduce the damage in PvP and WvW to not affect PvE (which imo is the more obvious solution), but instead doubles the cast time. I guess it can promote counter-play, but the thing is in PvP many other skills more or less serve to bait dodges for sword 4, like glint elite, shiro elite, elemental blast. As for the other sword skills, sword 5 is hard to land against decent players (who know to dodge when the rev ports in next to them - which is used sometimes to, again, bait dodges to land sword 4), sword 2 deals so little damage (in PvP), and sword 3 puts the rev right next to the opponent, which is in many cases quite suicidal. Sword 4's cast time now is even longer than the duration of a dodge - meaning the opponent will have time to avoid it even if the rev manages to bait the dodge.

It might be better with quickness, but Rev's sources of quickness are Phase Traversal - which costs too much energy to use just to land sword 4, brutality - requires the rev to be switch to sword/sword from staff to get quickness - I've never liked this trait and AA seems to be much better for sustain, and Sigil of Agility - which again requires the rev to be on staff beforehand or swap legends to proc, but this one's actually not so bad (although in WvW the sigil only gives 1s of quickness :anguished: ). Plus boons are harder to maintain now, given the nerfs to concentration in Herald, Leadership runes, and the F2 rework (which was slightly buffed today except for Glint F2 - the elite spec's legend!!!).

Lastly it might be an attempt to tone down power creeps across all classes - this I have no idea about since I only play Ele and Rev, and everyone knows where Ele stands in competitive game modes.

It's painful to cast sword 4 now - but I guess the nerf is justified given how strong it is. Used to use other skills to bait dodges for sword 4, now I guess I'll start using sword 4 to bait dodges.

Buff to Shiro F2 is interesting - I'll definitely try that out, but I'm not sure it'll make up for sword 4 nerf since F2 upkeep is still -3 in PvP (and I hate changing my playstyle for basically the same build between PvP and WvW). I'm a bit sad that they didn't buff Glint F2 though, if they did it'd probably be worth keeping it on throughout legend swaps again.

From the perspective of a Power Herald - at a quick glance this looks like a nerf to damage with no real buff to sustain, boon duration, or build diversity.

A bit off topic but does anyone know Sigil of Agility gives 2s of quickness in PvP but only 1s in WvW? Thought the quickness could help with sword 4 but 1s of quickness is pretty insignificant - given the nerfs to boon duration recently.

Removing unblockable is quite huge - aegis can block DJ now (in team fights with a FB - DJ can be easier prevented), it now can be reflected (and potentially one-shot the DE back lol, haven't tried or seen it yet), or at least prevented with a well-timed block.

> @"Brujeria.7536" said:

> mesmer, especially mirage needs a massive nerf. The damage it can achieve in combination with the multiple layers of different low cooldown defenses and the broken dodge mechanic that even can be used while stunned is the biggest design mistake they have ever made. Limit their dodge to only be useable while not cced, reduce the stupid ammo mechanic on jaunt, nerf endurance regeneration food and effects across the board (including vigor). distortion and dodging should not be possible while stomping or rezzing. and reduce the clone spam. its not cool, its not fun to play against and its not a good idea.

I don't know that well about condi mirages actually - they're Rev's hard counter but also I lose against them largely bc I don't know the build well, I probably won't start complain too much until I know exactly what they do. Other mes builds are alright, even Power Mirage (after the nerf to Confounding Suggestions it's much harder for them to land a good burst against decent people, plus they don't get any buff to sustain to compensate for a missed burst).

> thief, in a meta where power damage and mobility are the most valueable things thief, in all of its forms needs to be toned down a lot. stealth needs an entire rework, the mobility needs big nerfs as its overpassing every other class by miles as well as the stupidly high damage across all skills, especially on deadeye, since its ranged. furthermore the class needs counterplay, 4 second evade with damage, initiative unaffected by chill, no cooldown on weapon skills while having weapon skills with such high raw damage is too much. on top of that they have many trait and skill options to imob or blind just as they engage, further limiting the counterplay. the class is same as mesmer not fun to play against.

I agree DE is not fun to play against - with the constant stealth, the DJ's (although can be evaded with sound and good reaction), or the stupidly high backstab from stealth (luckily I play on Rev which has Glint heal to deal with that). D/P DD and Core S/D are largely fine though - they have evades, mobility, but the damage is not too over the top, and they're squishy. It takes a decent player to play those builds well.

> ranger, especially soulbeast. town down the pets as the random cc and free damage is too annoying, as well as remove that stupid smoke field, it creates so much inbalance given how good druids are at healing while being stealth and stealthed in general. change greatsword and sword leaps to require a target in range, so they can not be used as an escape, but as an engage / gapcloser skill only. nerf longbow damage and especially remove the unblockable. long range weapons should not deal that much damage and unblockable, with a projectile weapon, counters its own counter, which is a horrible design. also look at stone signet = complete defenses without gear investment are always a bad idea.

Stone Signet is just for 3s though - 3s of kiting/CC the ranger. I can't really say much though since my Power Rev can deal with LB Soulbeast pretty well (apart from the good ones of course), melee classes might have a harder time dealing with it. Druid's fine - annoying due to their sustain but definitely not OP. I don't see many Boonbeasts in WvW - I see them more in PvP. Don't see many Condi Soulbeasts either - although they're annoying for my Rev but I've never heard about it being broken.

> revenant - simply put revenant is broken. a few stupidly overpowered weaponskills with low cooldown and no counterplay that needs to get nerfed. you can clearly see that rev was not meant to have a second weapon set judging by the weapon skills, they added it in the last second and didnt change the skills. hammer needs a massive nerf, its damage is far over the top for a ranged weapon without a counter (the skills are not even projectiles for the most part) and i mean nerf every single skill here, each one is too strong for a 1200 range AOE weapon. sword 3 is a badly designed skill - gapcloser, damage, evade, that cant even be evaded properly when you dodge the initial hit, same thing as staff 5. when a skill is a gapcloser and deals damage it should not be a CC. When its a gapcloser and a CC it should not deal damage.

I am confused - did you just mention Rev hammer in a thread about roaming??? Hammer is slow, clunkly, telegraphed, easy to read - it's probably the worst power weapon in roaming for rev. I'd rather take sword/shield or sword/axe rather than hammer. As soon as you get close to a rev, most revs that run hammer will switch to something else. Hammer Rev in zerg is a different story.

You also mentioned staff 5 as gap closer - if it's used as a gap closer it'll be really telegraphed and it's not hard to sidestep/dodge out of its path. Sword 3 is annoying yes - but you can dodge and CC the rev when he comes out the animation (which is generally a good way to fight power rev - CC after sword 5, phase, or sword 3 and the rev will easily lose momentum and often will go into defense). Also I'm confused by what you mean by sword 3 "cant even be evaded properly when you dodge the initial hit" - it's not sword 5, it's not a chain/sequence skill, the hits are separate and don't affect each other.

It's also funny how you didn't mention the aspects Rev is considered broken at - engaging and OH sword, and instead mentioned things seemingly no one else has a problem with.

> warrior - too many free defenses without the need for stat investment. adrenal health is overpowered as its too potent even without investment in healingpower, immune to damage + immune to crits + frequent access to resistance = too strong defense on berserker builds without the need to invest any stats in defense. fullcounter needs a increased cooldown. weapon skills and utility skills need to be looked at, same thing as with rev, the skills have too many effects. GS 3 is a gapcloser, evade and damage, bulls charge is a gapcloser, CC and damage, just to name a few.

I'm assuming you're talking about SB - SB has to sacrificing either defense for damage (strength trait line), or vice versa. It's very strong in outnumbered fights thanks to FC (arguably to an OP level - I personally don't think so), but in 1v1 FC is much easier to avoid. On top of that SB's skills are pretty obvious and telegraphed - unless you're on a melee build then you're at a disadvantage compared to builds that can kite (like my Power Rev). The only thing I want to be toned down a bit is Magebane Tether - it does a little too much for a bit too long, and the pull is almost never used until the very end which I think can be designed better.

> guardian - bunker builds need a big nerf, a class should not be able to be so tanky, while being so good as support. the team support should require a sacrifice in the own surviveability. the damage specs and builds are okay, a little one trickish, but its not frustrating, albeit sometimes very challenging to fight against

Again can't say much about the bunker builds - I play Rev so I have a lot of damage, even in terms of multi-hit skills, thus it's easier for me to damage them through aegis (compared to like thieves), and Rev also has unblockable. Core Hammer Guard, Meditrapper DH & Power FB are fine if not a bit underwhelming, especially DH - it can use a buff. FB I don't think is meant for roaming so no comment on that.

> engie - can be a little overwhelming sometimes, especially holosmith due to the low cooldown, high damage skills but overall okay. Rezzing and stomping should not be useable + should be interrupted when elixier s is used.

Holo can't be okay when you have SB, Rev, rangers and non-DE thieves up there - Holo is much, much more forgiving with AoE damage and CC, very good sustain due to double Elixir S and blasting water fields (2 fields even). Photon Forge skills are telegraphed but partly compensated by the high quickness uptime. They also have good cleanse, stealth, reveal, a bit of range pressure (if running rifle), plenty of boons (might, vigor, swiftness, quickness, stab, maybe fury), good regen (baseline trait). IMO they have a bit too many tools and are very hard to both avoid their damage and burst them well, unlike LB/GS Soulbeast, Power Rev or Tetherbreaker.

> ele - is fine, either one trick fresh air or sustain builds. generally id say its balanced (it doenst feel balanced but thats not because the ele is too weak, instead because some classes like thief and mesmer are so ridiculous op)

Ele is underpowered - either you have damage and too little sustain, or a lot of sustain and no damage - which isn't very fun to play as or against. FA builds are much more fun but also very, very squishy, and it doesn't have a lot of tools to avoid damage.

> necro - really only shines against bad players / groups, easily kited and countered and chain cc'd against good enemies. scourge is annoying when you try to meele. reaper damage can be surprisingly strong, but its very predictable. very strong in zerg fights, but thats not the subject

For all the builds I've seen roaming around, scourge is probably the weakest - both condi and power (Idk if there's even a power scourge build for roaming). They're too slow, too easy to avoid damage, too little personal defense, and generally not a good choice for roaming. Reaper is better against less decent players in that it has huge damage, complimented by perma quickness in shroud. Reaper's easily kited by range builds though, and again its personal defense isn't that good, it's just better compensated compared to scourge by its damage.

All in all necro is generally a better choice for havoc (especially reaper) and not so much a good choice for solo roaming.

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> >

> > I farm every rev NA

>

> Cute, let's see those screens you like to ask people for when they make ridiculous claims.

>

> Jokes aside, Jay has a point with rev not being as monstrous as people think, especially when making comparisons to a thief you have to take into account that thief wins the 1v1 against rev assuming equal skill between players. It's not as noticeable now with OH sword giving you the ability to 1 shot (needs a damage nerf, that can't be argued no matter who you are) but it's an important factor. It's the same reason why power mes or FA ele were never top tier meta builds, thief shut them out too easily for their advantages over thief performance to be worth it. If rev's OH sword is nerfed, as it should be, then you will see a significant decrease in rev's viability compared to other profs simply because OH sword's damage is the main thing keeping them in the game right now.

Yeah I'm just countering his point of Rev having low burst damage. Thief obviously has many advantages over rev - just as rev also does. I'm not sure about 1v1 - both Rev and Thief are not for that purpose but with UA, Reveal, high burst damage, good gap-closer and okay-ish sustain in 1v1s, I'd be more inclined to say Rev. I'm not too good however so I might be wrong :/

As for OH sword nerf: It's reasonable to nerf OH sword, but there needs to be a buff along with it - either to sustain (like a buff to Shield, or a defensive buff to traits), and/or a buff to MH sword. A buff to both MH sword and Shield would be interesting - I'd love to try playing Sword/Shield and be more of a 1v1 role.

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > > > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > > > @"rowdy.5107" said:

> > > > > rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

> > > >

> > > > Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.

> > > > Tell me, what exactly is that **_"everything"_** which thieves can do better?

> > >

> > > Thief has;

> > >

> > > Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

> > >

> > > High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

> > >

> > > People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

> >

> > Lowest power dmg, lowest burst....

> >

> > I am sorry, but I am not even gonna argument against this as this is utterly and objectively not true and very widely known fact at that.

> >

> > The point of my sarcastic post was that Rev has by miles higher dmg than thief, by miles higher sustain, same engage potential and only worse disengage.

> > You could not, even as a joke, say that Rev has lowest burst dmg, or dmg overall.

>

> Do you know what dead eye is? Do you know what staff DD is? Core thief?

>

> Every class has the capabilities to do higher burst than Rev in a pvp viable build. In all game modes Rev burst is the lowest. Even more so in PvP however. I’m guessing you got dumpstered by somebody playing rev?

Ask the best Revs right now and I bet a majority of them will agree OH sword is very strong right now (some might even say broken). I've heard Rev streamers say that, and almost everyone on this forum (except for you) says that. Rev might be weak at a few things but burst damage is definitely NOT one of them.

> @"JayAction.9056" said:

> > @"Alatar.7364" said:

> > > @"rowdy.5107" said:

> > > rev is just a poor mans thief in my opinion. fun class to play. but thieves and mesmers do everything a rev can do, but so much better.

> >

> > Funny, the thieves say that Rev is a rich mans Thief.

> > Tell me, what exactly is that **_"everything"_** which thieves can do better?

>

> Thief has;

>

> Way higher damage than rev, it’s no competition. Even in a PVE environment it’s not even close. Power vs Power

>

> High mobility than rev/sustain (once again no competition). Thief can cross entire DBL in like a minute.

>

> People keep complying on rev because they lose to Revs that are nowhere near their own skill level. Rev has the LOWEST power damage by about 20-30% and LOWEST burst but people died to Rev hardest hitting attack and just can’t take it mentally.

Hmm hold up - how can Rev has lowest burst/damage? DPS-wise perhaps rev's not the best, but that's generally not rev's role. I believe Rev has one of the best burst damage in PvP, complimented by great engaging skills (OH sword for damage, Phase and Staff 5 for engaging). The thing is Rev's gotta land its OH sword skills to deal damage (by baiting dodges, CC, using quickness, etc.) - although to be fair Thief's gotta be careful in landing his steal too.

DBL is irrelevant here, this is a PvP thread - although you're right in that thief has better out of combat mobility than rev, thus making it better in decapping and disengaging. A rev is only better at disengaging if he makes the decision to pull out early enough - otherwise he'd have burnt some disengaging skills for sustain (staff 3 & 5) and energy (even worse if legend swap is on CD, you're on Shiro with no energy).

And I do play Rev as my main - I'm not very good but good enough to know what Rev has.

I think it depends on the skill. Skills normally have a charging phase and active phase - I think once you enter the active phase energy will be drain and the skill is put on full CD - that's why Glint Elite and Jade Winds can be cancelled, because their CC/damage part happen at the very end, so when the entire cast time is charging phase. Jalis elite functions differently because it's a stun break, and so since the stun break part is at the beginning, its entire cast time is considered active phase and thus can't be cancelled and will always drain energy upon use.

@"Blue.1207" What exact skills are you referring to?

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> Iv been messing around with this build past few days. I win some, i lose some. Its a pure cancer build. But its fun.

> http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXlnXNeNSqJvJR/kHlsgykS4Q5SJYrsrkFUlKNAOgFgtIWip4PETxYE-jpRAQBe4EAoz9HK5DAAAHBg9VG4kHCAA

Hmm how is that related to OP's build? Also I believe OP's referring to WvW zerg fights, not PvP.

> @"CRrabbit.1284" said:

> Today tested a new (actually pretty old build) of core rev :

> http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQJAWinfNWNSuJrJRHl/kskygS4S5QJorcrklTFhNZzppBK8QNznSA-jFyHABNpEM/nAwPK/2T9HgvAAhv/wX6CA4QAkPIAYRB8/X9/fJFwoLjA-w

> With FB's support: perma stab, perma resistance, perma 70-93% DR. NEVER get hit for more than 1k, most of time zerker herald hit me only 500+ with COR, can swim inside meteor shower. 80% received damage is less than my retaliation (~250). Still doing OK damage. hammer AA can still do 1k+ most time sometime lucky hit 2k. Staff AA is main damage. lack of group buff compared with herald but extremely sustain.

Have you tried adding a few Wanderer pieces for the boon duration? I think full Wanderer Armor can get you close to 50% boon duration with just a bit of loss in Toughness and Power. Regarding gameplay I'm curious - it seems like a quite good build, Mallyx and Dwarf are good legends for support and frontline, and there seems to be a lot of Resistance and Damage Reduction for allies. I like how you pick Corruption instead of Herald - I like Resistance and Damage Reduction there and it seems like an alright alternative. Only change I'd make is to take Charged Mists instead of Song of the Mists - Mallyx and Dwarf are quite energy consuming. Let me know when you try this build, I don't have the gear to try this yet, not until I'm done with my Bifrost :)

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > Also I believe you're just arguing the disadvantages of Staff Weaver in PvP right? Otherwise you can pick Core Ele or Tempest, both work much better with Staff and I've seen quite a few of them in PvP.

>

> Are you messin with me? I said twice that I'm referring to weaver in general and not staff. It doesn't matter which weapon it is, the 3rd skill on all attunements is essentially gone and this is not ok, at least not with me cant speak for alla yall. Having to choose a different spec cuz something is broken or not working right is a sign that something is wrong and needs to be fixed. I think unravel is trying to address this issue but falls short.

Ah I got it - my apologies. I agree that the problem exists on all MH weapons except for Sword since it's designed to work with Weaver, the 3rd skills on Sword except for the Air one are pretty much useless anyway. What about a version of Unravel that has slightly shorter CD, and provide more useful boons (like stability, resistance, quickness)? Although then I'd waste a utility slot - I'd much prefer Unravel be made a F5.

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> Even if someone were determined enough to get at the 3rd skill, it is practically impossible to do in any pvp setting. First you attune to the element in question, wait 4 seconds, and then you can use it. Then you gotta wait 4 more seconds to get out of the attunement. That is 8 whole freaking seconds! How on earth can anyone be ok with this?! You will get auto attacked to death before you can get out of said attunement. Its madness. Madness I say!

Well that's partly bc Weaver's design unfortunately doesn't work well with Staff and Dagger - probably an oversight from the developers, but also a reason why you should probably stay away from Staff Weaver in PvP. I've seen many core/tempest staff Ele in PvP but never Staff Weaver.

I'd welcome a buff to Unravel with more interesting boons or bonuses, or a change to make Unravel an F5 - meaning making it an option that the Ele can use, instead of forcing the order of the 3rd skill and the dual skill, since there can be situations when I need the 3rd skill more while there can be times I need the dual skill more.

Also I believe you're just arguing the disadvantages of Staff Weaver in PvP right? Otherwise you can pick Core Ele or Tempest, both work much better with Staff and I've seen quite a few of them in PvP.

I mean you stayed away from Staff Weaver in PvP for a good reason then - Staff Weaver is about maximizing control and damage and almost never about support or self sustain. What makes you still want to take Weaver in PvP?

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > I think any difficult to learn/master professions will make you a better player overall. So folks who are good with Elementalist and Engineer are likely to be stronger players overall when they step down to professions that aren't as complicated to win with.

> >

> > Depends on the build. I was running Cello's sword weaver build in WvW before and I got carried by the build a lot, simply because I could make mistake and just go into water, dodge, water 2 and blast the water field to get back to full health. The combo saved me so many times that even when I fought good players, I didn't bother going back and see why I died, I just simply thought: Oh I should (or should not) have used Twist of Fate, or oh he's lucky my water attunement's on CD, or something like that.

> >

> > Of course there are more high risk, medium-high reward Ele builds like the FA builds (core/tempest/weaver), lightning rod Sw/F Weaver, core/tempest D/D, but I decided I needed an entire new class that is way more bursty, and I saw Tubby's video and I made a Rev. For Rev there's no oh-kitten combo except for Glint heal which has a 30s CD, so I had to be more careful, play more passive, kite more, time the opponent's dodges to hit my burst, and watch Tubby's videos to see and hear how he did it. So yeah, for me Rev made me a better player.

>

> In this case, you're talking about specific builds. I'm talking about understanding the profession and being good at the profession as a whole as opposed to just one build type.

Makes sense - I thought I was good at Ele but I wasn't, the build was just good at sustain, it kinda did the job for me.

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> I think any difficult to learn/master professions will make you a better player overall. So folks who are good with Elementalist and Engineer are likely to be stronger players overall when they step down to professions that aren't as complicated to win with.

Depends on the build. I was running Cello's sword weaver build in WvW before and I got carried by the build a lot, simply because I could make mistake and just go into water, dodge, water 2 and blast the water field to get back to full health. The combo saved me so many times that even when I fought good players, I didn't bother going back and see why I died, I just simply thought: Oh I should (or should not) have used Twist of Fate, or oh he's lucky my water attunement's on CD, or something like that.

Of course there are more high risk, medium-high reward Ele builds like the FA builds (core/tempest/weaver), lightning rod Sw/F Weaver, core/tempest D/D, but I decided I needed an entire new class that is way more bursty, and I saw Tubby's video and I made a Rev. For Rev there's no oh-sh!t combo except for Glint heal which has a 30s CD, so I had to be more careful, play more passive, kite more, time the opponent's dodges to hit my burst, and watch Tubby's videos to see and hear how he did it. So yeah, for me Rev made me a better player.

Why are we digging this thread again? Everyone agrees OP has a L2P problem and that's it.