idolin.2831

I just started playing rev this summer so I don't know much about rev before that, but if OH Sword was worse before, what made up for it (and how were they nerfed to be what they are now?). Specifically what did Equilibrium do, and how was Rev's sustain better then (if it was)?

> @"katniss.6735" said:

> 180s cd for fgs, and moving in on downs as a backline is not really your job. Tbh ele is very bad without the help of other classes doing things like bubbling over the downed so they can't get rezzed easily, and putting chill/poison there so they can't heal at all. 90s cd Weave self is kitten because when are you ever going to cc ever with that? 50% movement speed isn't even useful when you have fresh air already. Greatsword is mostly bad because you can't use your staff skills while equipping it. It's a lot easier to die that way. If you're playing against a team that is pirate shipping, then it's fine, I guess.

FGS's skills are perfect for cleaving and getting out of messy situations. Also behind aggressive is fun for me - I like going in and out of enemy zergs as a slippery Ele knowing that I get targeted but can't die thanks to Twist of Fate (if playing Weaver) or Arcane Shield (and Lightning Flash sometimes).

> @"Nimrod.9240" said:

Hmm I seriously doubt a staff zerk core Ele could survive alone - your opponents must be really, really bad. The Sylvari Elite only lasts for 3s and has a 150s CD - 3s is too short and anyone can just kite/block/evade to wait for it to be over, and in the mean time they can even throw some AOEs on you - which you can't get out of.

I don't really understand the reasoning behind FA on Staff - in a zerg I don't think Electric Discharge is that useful, air skills on staff doesn't hit as hard and are mostly utilities, and you're probably better off with Bolt to the Heart for the extra damage.

Burning Fire is alright, but you also have condi cleanse in Ether Renewal (and a very good one). You can take Burning Precision for the burning - it synergizes with Burning Rage (increased damage to burning foes).

Lightning Flash seems to work better for me too, you can be way more aggressive with it by using it to place a better Meteor Shower. That can even eliminate the need for quickness, although that's a very interesting idea that I'd love to try out sometimes, probably will do after I finish my Bifrost.

Lastly I don't get the Sylvari Elite. As an Ele that last thing you want to do is root yourself in a position. Fiery Greatsword is an awesome elite (except for the long CD) - you can be way, way more aggressive and it's really fun going in and out of enemy zergs and cleaving people. If you want something more to help you be more aggressive and get out of those situations after being aggressive, you can take all 3 Arcane Shield, Mist Form and Lighting Flash to help with re-positioning (and possible swap to Evasive Arcana for some quick heal in Water).

This is the Core Staff Ele that I used: [gw2skills.net/editor/?vFMQFAWhMMolhFOwzB8RMIAIRgCPq3tTLrukC-j1BBQB6THwZUCWj9HwiyPAcBAYwDAQhq/EAAB4m3MAgMA6jB-w](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFMQFAWhMMolhFOwzB8RMIAIRgCPq3tTLrukC-j1BBQB6THwZUCWj9HwiyPAcBAYwDAQhq/EAAB4m3MAgMA6jB-w "gw2skills.net/editor/?vFMQFAWhMMolhFOwzB8RMIAIRgCPq3tTLrukC-j1BBQB6THwZUCWj9HwiyPAcBAYwDAQhq/EAAB4m3MAgMA6jB-w").

> @"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:

> > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > > @"Turkeyspit.3965" said:

> > > > > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > > > > As I utilize sigil of cleansing on my hammer

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That's kind of a curious choice. Why use that on your hammer and not staff? I have that sigil on my staff so when I'm under condi pressure I swap to staff for instant cleanse of 3 conditions, and can still use Renewing Wave if necessary. If I've just been condi bombed I've likely also been CC'd or pulled, so Staff 5 is ready to get me back into position.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I use Air and Bloodlust on my hammer.

> > > > >

> > > > > So one thing I disliked was being forced into staff, a melee weapon, simply to Condi cleanse with renewing wave (previously I had no other Condi cleanse). So I decided to pickup cleansing on the hammer and also cleansing channel. If I legend swapped while in hammer it would cleanse 2 condi allowing me to stay ranged. Another item is that I use my staff offensively and part of that is using hydromancy + leeching sigils for a swap bomb. If I didn't need the heal from leeching I would probably use geomancy instead for it's aoe. I don't use bloodlust sigil on my rev, I just can't build and keep 25 stacks long enough for it to be a good choice. If I only zerged I might load out differently but I don't zerg frequently. It's one thing I kind of laugh at about the metabattle hammer rev build, they put supportive sigils on the staff that is never used to fight but for some reason make it zerker instead of something that can keep you alive like nomads.

> > > >

> > > > Yeah I've wondered about the staff myself, as really the only time its in my hands is if I'm moving away (or through) enemy players to a better position or for condi cleanse. I never really hit anyone with it. That all said, better to have a DPS staff in hand to make the most out of the next 9 seconds, so meh.

> > > >

> > > > From a perspective of roaming I guess it makes sense to run the sigil in hammer, provided you swap legends regularly. I play in groups and zergs for the most part, and I'm only swapping to Jalis when the kitten hits the fan, otherwise I'm in Glint all the time. And getting and keeping 25stacks isn't too hard since you get 5 stacks for killing an enemy player, and any reasonably sized fight would get you full stacks. I'm just hesitant to remove any potential spike damage from my hammer since in zerg vs zerg, that means the difference between a downed enemy or an enemy dodging backwards at low health and getting healed up.

> > > >

> > >

> > > So why are you not running force/night on hammer and bloodlust/cleansing on staff?

> >

> > Well that problem remains the same. As I never really swap to staff unless it's to reposition or cleanse, putting sigil of bloodlust on it means I'd never generate stacks. I suppose I could swap to staff and hit 5 during a push to tag mobs for stacks, but that's not an ideal use for the weapon, and I would have to do that after every time I went down.

> >

> > From what I've read, after 10 stacks a Sigil of BL is better than Sigil of Force, so once you've killed 2 opponents you're outperforming Force, and after a single push against a 25 man squad, I almost always walk out with 25 stacks.

> >

> > As for Sigil of Night, it would only be effective during night phases in WvW, while Air is consistent no matter what time of day.

>

> I prefer Bloodlust + Impact on my Hammer with Cleansing and Energy on my Staff. I use Leeching + Blood on Sword/Sword with Assassin's Annihilation and Omnomberry Pie for an absurd amount of Life Steals. When I use Enchanted Daggers, it actually feels like I'm getting health back, lol.

>

> As for the video, I enjoy these, Justine. I'm a newcomer to Rev and I enjoy floating around by myself a lot. Although I know Sword/Sword + Staff is objectively better than Hammer, I've also found myself using Hammer a lot for roaming (mind you not always). Sometimes I like to use Hammer + Sword/Sword as well. It's a little awkward due to how slow it is, but the damage from all of it's attacks and the burst potential from CoR if you set it up properly is just great. Not like there isn't a ton of open space in WvW to pull it off.

The problem with Hammer for me is that it's a bit too telegraphed (at least for me since I'm also a Rev) - as a Sword/Sword Rev, fighting a Rev with Hammer for me is most of the time easier since I can gap close easily and force him to kite more (which isn't a problem for Sword/Sword Rev due to the many mid range skills and gap closers), or switch to staff, in which case he can't really pressure me too much. Also Sword/Sword is just way more fast paced and less clunky for me.

That being said, props to @"Justine.6351" for making Hammer work - I enjoy these videos a lot and it's fun seeing all these guys thinking Hammer Rev is an easy target and then get beat up ;)

I've been on the receiving end - met this Mithril Condi DD who would lay traps and run into the nearest tower/camp or run away when I got close and chase me when I turned away and when he had others with him. Later I ran by him doing nothing, turned around and he ran into the camp again. I messaged him telling him to chill and found out dude already blocked me. LOL.

Bumping this up because this still exists and is quite annoying.

OP's been trying to get rev nerfed for quite some time now, and since the first post it seems like he hasn't learned any new thing about Rev yet and still complained about "no CD" stunbreak, 20s+ iframe/block (what the hell?), infinite gap closers (like rev's got infinite energy or something), 12k damage unrelenting assault while he's playing mirage with clones and such, which counters rev's main hand sword pretty hard, 20k damage burst - I have no idea how you manage to eat an entire 20k damage burst, and he even says thief is worse at disengaging because of a 50CD shadowstep (what the hell is shortbow 5 for???).

Also to expand on Hydromancy - I put in on on of my swords, and there are a lot of way you can proc the sigil: Phase to the opponent and weapon swap to sword or legend swap if you're already on sword, while doing sword 3, Riposting Shadow through your opponent and legend swap/weapon swap while evading, or may be just when you're close to your opponent. Chill is a nice condi, the damage is quite nice, especially if you manage to combo it. It helps me a lot oneshot-ing squishy, unsuspecting foes (mostly DE's).

The build looks alright to me - I'd make some changes to the traits like Assassin's Annihilation instead of Swift Termination for a bit of sustain, Shared Empowerment for a bit of might, and Cleansing Channel for an additional cleanse (this I think you should change though, Rising Tide isn't worth it considering it doesn't take much to go below 90%), but yours probably works just fine. Also I like Hydromancy Sigil a lot - but if you manage to build Bloodlust stack then yeah why not.

> @"Riko.9214" said:

> > @"Dante.1763" said:

> > > @"Riko.9214" said:

> > > Looks like going solo to enemy territory is only possible on mobility builds now.

> > >

> > > On the positive side it looks like thiefs finally can be relevant in WvW by depriving enemies from their supplies.

> >

> > Funny, i go solo into enemy territory all the time on my ele and ranger neither of which are running meta builds and capture objectives constantly by myself, with no stealth at all.

>

> Emmm? I just said that mobility builds are left, then you come and say you use it already. I mean cool, but so what? If you would say you was using reaper I would see the point.

What kind of mobility builds are you talking about? Ele can hardly be a class with mobility no matter the build - yeah maybe Lightning Flash and Dagger 4 but they both have long CDs.

> @"Endorphin.9147" said:

> Do people still not know how to weapon stow or dodge?

And keeping track of FC's CD too - sometimes it's impossible to avoid proc'ing FC by stowing or dodging.

There are many more ways to prevent Hammer Toss:

- Invulnerability (Mist Form/Elixir S/Distortion/...)

- Aegis/Stability (as you mentioned).

- Blind (they blind you right before Hammer Toss, so it will be a miss).

- Projectile denial/reflect (Magnetic Aura, Swirling Winds - Ele's Air Focus 4, etc.)

- Mirage Cloak.

> @"Aridon.8362" said:

> You should use it when you can because it casts an extra cleave and gives out quickness and superspeed.

Quickness? Impossible Odds no longer gives quickness.

> @"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:

> I could see it being useful for things like Sword 3 and 4 and Staff 5 since there are multiple hits going out.

But there's an ICD of 0.25s though. I doubt if it benefits sword 4 or staff 5 since the hits are too quick, but sword 3 might works with impossible odds - I'll test it.

While Impossible odds seems to be a great skill in PvE, I almost never use it in WvW. If Forceful Persistence isn't traited, I rarely use it except for cleaving downs (while roaming), or once in a while for re-positioning if I'm playing hammer backline. Still, I feel like saving energy for Riposting Shadows is still safer than using superspeed from Impossible Odds to re-position.

(Since the death of old F2, I feel like I need Draconic Echo more for boon uptime, rather than traiting Forceful Persistence for the damage and lose the boons).

So do other revs use Impossible Odds often in WvW, or even PvP? I mean in PvP I also only use it for cleaving downs and running between points, since I can't swap legends by right-clicking like in WvW to use Glint't swiftness facet.

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> Yeah those dastardly OP mesmers and thieves...

>

> Scenario 1 I saw yesterday:

>

> *Hybrid mesmer (me) vs obvious tanky rifle DE (ie two sustains)*

> Fight lasting minutes, hide and seek, evades and blocks up the wazoo.

> *Herald comes in from the side and instakills the thief by teleporting on him*

>

> Scenario 2 I also saw yesterday a couple of minutes after the above:

>

> *Hybrid mesmer (me) vs the same obvious tanky rifle DE that ran straight from hills to engage again*

> Fight only lasted a 30s a minute tops, we barely got shots in at each other.

> *The same herald randomly runs by and instakills the thief by teleporting on him, not even stopping*

>

> I could almost hear the rage and I laughed harder than I have in a long while.

You gotta excuse us power revs - at least for me jumping on DE's and oneshotting them are among my favorite things to do in WvW, especially when I come from weaver, a class with limited mobility and almost no burst to kill DE's. Of course once in a while I see these really good DE's that react super fast and are really slippery and make me slightly salty for killing me :)

> @"Silence.3702" said:

> Deadeye out pressures any weaver, since a weaver cant engage properly and wont be able to hold point without kite , its not gonna be able to outheal a deadeye for a long time. eventually the deadeye will kill the weaver.

>

> this is why Deadeye >= Weaver

Agreed. Deadeye has enough stealth and damage to pressure Weaver. Weaver only has sustain in form of Water 2 and Earth 2, 2 twists of fate, and its gap closers are on quite long CD (Air 4 for 30s - it's unlikely the DE will get hit by this, Lightning Flash for 40s, Air 2 on 15s). Any mistake, particularly failing to avoid Death's Judgement, will seriously put the Weaver in a huge disadvantage. Probably the only way the fight can be a stalemate is if there is enough obstacles for the Weaver to make use of LoS.

> @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > [This was a comment from the OP a while ago](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/716097/#Comment_716097 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/716097/#Comment_716097"). This should probably give people an insight into this person's mentality...

> >

> > 

> >

> > As for the OP's suggestions:

> >

> > - I assume you're referring to core guard here - are you talking about Hammer 2 + Judge's Intervention combo? Other than that I don't see anything so threatening about core guards - there are tons of unblockable attacks, boon strips in the game right now, aegis is pretty useless, plus guard has a low HP pool. How can it be OP?

> > - Rev was just nerfed - Incensed Response now gives 2 stacks of might instead of 5 (which was reasonable), there was no defensive buff to compensate, FoN remains at -3 upkeep, so that was definitely a nerf.

>

> How do you get your screen black like that

> @"Emtiarbi.3281" said:

> > @"mrauls.6519" said:

> > > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > > [This was a comment from the OP a while ago](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/716097/#Comment_716097 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/716097/#Comment_716097"). This should probably give people an insight into this person's mentality...

> > >

> > > 

> > >

> > > As for the OP's suggestions:

> > >

> > > - I assume you're referring to core guard here - are you talking about Hammer 2 + Judge's Intervention combo? Other than that I don't see anything so threatening about core guards - there are tons of unblockable attacks, boon strips in the game right now, aegis is pretty useless, plus guard has a low HP pool. How can it be OP?

> > > - Rev was just nerfed - Incensed Response now gives 2 stacks of might instead of 5 (which was reasonable), there was no defensive buff to compensate, FoN remains at -3 upkeep, so that was definitely a nerf.

> >

> > How do you get your screen black like that

>

> Asking the I portant question right here!

This: [https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dark-reader/eimadpbcbfnmbkopoojfekhnkhdbieeh?hl=en-US](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dark-reader/eimadpbcbfnmbkopoojfekhnkhdbieeh?hl=en-US "https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/dark-reader/eimadpbcbfnmbkopoojfekhnkhdbieeh?hl=en-US")

Finally a look I'm somewhat satisfied with (for now).




> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > That will make warriors happy, that's why we can't have it. Warriors are literally the walking dead in GW2.

> >

> > I'm confused how "Warriors are literally the walking dead in GW2". In PvE bannerslave warrior is an absolute must - yes it's a role that a lot of people hate, but it still means warrior is a must, it's nowhere near the "walking dead" status. In PvP Spellbreaker is an excellent 1v1'er and bunker. In WvW zerg fights Spellbreaker is still a must for bubble - yes it was nerfed but it doesn't mean people don't need it anymore. For roaming Daggerbreaker is still a very strong build, core warrior GS/Axe+Shield is also viable.

> >

> > I fail to see how a class with meta builds in all game modes is "the walking dead" when there are still ele mains out there.

>

> hahahaha have you seen the walking dead TV show? the walkers chase and chase their victims but they almost never get their targets, but if the walkers manage to get you, you are a dead man. That is why I refereed to warriors as the walking dead of GW2 because warriors chase and chase the enemies hitting nothing but air, but if warriors manage to hit a stun, you are in big trouble.

Ah that makes sense - you're right then. Thanks for the clarification!

Off the top of my mind - there's Flame Uprising, Holo Leap, Fiery Rush, Unrelenting Assault (in a way), Mirage Thrust. What are you talking about - other classes don't have similar skills?

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> That will make warriors happy, that's why we can't have it. Warriors are literally the walking dead in GW2.

I'm confused how "Warriors are literally the walking dead in GW2". In PvE bannerslave warrior is an absolute must - yes it's a role that a lot of people hate, but it still means warrior is a must, it's nowhere near the "walking dead" status. In PvP Spellbreaker is an excellent 1v1'er and bunker. In WvW zerg fights Spellbreaker is still a must for bubble - yes it was nerfed but it doesn't mean people don't need it anymore. For roaming Daggerbreaker is still a very strong build, core warrior GS/Axe+Shield is also viable.

I fail to see how a class with meta builds in all game modes is "the walking dead" when there are still ele mains out there.

[This was a comment from the OP a while ago](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/716097/#Comment_716097 "https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/716097/#Comment_716097"). This should probably give people an insight into this person's mentality...


As for the OP's suggestions:

- I assume you're referring to core guard here - are you talking about Hammer 2 + Judge's Intervention combo? Other than that I don't see anything so threatening about core guards - there are tons of unblockable attacks, boon strips in the game right now, aegis is pretty useless, plus guard has a low HP pool. How can it be OP?

- Rev was just nerfed - Incensed Response now gives 2 stacks of might instead of 5 (which was reasonable), there was no defensive buff to compensate, FoN remains at -3 upkeep, so that was definitely a nerf.

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> Shield isn't really all that bad in a vacuum. It was the meta choice for a large portion of HoT, and it wasn't nerfs to shield nor buffs to axe which caused most revs to swap to axe and then later sword offhand. What killed shield was the nerf to precision strike which leaves main hand sword with literally no burst as all 3 skills are dps neutral to auto attacks, without burst and only one real gap closer in phase traversal sword shield rev can't play a +1 burst role and the whole kit is just not strong enough to play any other role such as a duelist. Axe gives a secondary gap closer which means that even without burst you can at least stick to opponents better and sustained damage them down where shield is just far too easily kited and disengaged from. New sword off hand is basically axe but trades condi damage for power damage so naturally is the go to for power builds.

Ah it makes sense then - I've been looking at videos from back in '15 and early '16 and noticed people still used shield. I guess in PvP, for a +1 role even without the nerfs to Precision Strike I'd stick to Axe or Sword OH - shield offers no offensive power.

I also thought about using Sword/Sword + Sword/Shield but of course there's no way shield can be compared to staff. I guess I just want to satisfy my sword/shield wielding fantasy but looks like it's not happening any time soon, unless they do a rework on shield.

> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > > @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> > > The best reward I got for playing ele is that I never got bored. When i leveled other classes, it felt so plain and mundane. I like the fact that you have to time and combo your skills to get a satisfying result. There's no "one button to rule them all".

> >

> > To be fair, to be good at other classes you need to time your skills well too - no class gets off with pressing "one button" and wins or with spamming buttons (probably except Condi Mirage, but I haven't played it so I don't know) - at least not versus good players.

>

> Of course I was exagerating a little. But it is easier to Land a 2-3 combo buttons that easily connect, than a whole rotation of attunements/skills that already have a hard time hitting moving targets by themselves.

Yeah that's true - why in PvP Weaver can sustain but can never kill anyone :(

> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> The best reward I got for playing ele is that I never got bored. When i leveled other classes, it felt so plain and mundane. I like the fact that you have to time and combo your skills to get a satisfying result. There's no "one button to rule them all".

To be fair, to be good at other classes you need to time your skills well too - no class gets off with pressing "one button" and wins or with spamming buttons (probably except Condi Mirage, but I haven't played it so I don't know) - at least not versus good players.