Noodle Ant.1605

I’m aware there may be other players who might have better input but here’s mine:

 

Though you can attempt to copy what a sup chrono is meant to do, the reality is that you’re not going to be doing as well as a proper one will. The most impactful support skill you could possibly take (without another boon chrono) is time warp, which is a fire-and-forget 12 (~14 with pot mastery?) seconds of quickness, but at the cost of hard cc. You *could* consider taking signet of inspiration, and or well of action/recall, but those important boons are going to expire so fast it will seem pretty insignificant, especially when it may come at the cost of your own damage.

 

That being said, the best route with your current state of gear would indeed be taking ‘the classic dps chrono’, but be aware: pchrono doesn’t use all zerkers (unless you’re playing the broken danger time build and have got a friend/s to supply your slow uptime) - it has to reach the preferred ~63(?)% crit chance (using the precision stat ONLY) to not be screwed over by rng (which at that amount still assumes the use of fury, food, banners and spotter to reach 100%). Luckily, the offensive pot with the mastery will cover ~10% of crit chance, but only in fractals. Going down this route, I’ll assume you’ll learn the unique intricacies of the pchrono rotation in time, but I can’t determine how long this may actually take because according to a number of people, it’s apparently ‘difficult and fast-paced’, and being one myself, you’ll need to find the distinct dis/advantages compared to other (meta) professions.

 

In conclusion, unless you’ve got a static with a condi rev or sup chrono, you’re kind of stuck in lose-lose situation where you’ll need to stat swap some of your gear to stay effective in either situation, and even then there’s no guarantee that you’ll see success very quickly. I would say to pick one route and just stick with it, you have ascended gear which can be stat swapped given effort and time, even if you discover your initial choice doesn’t work out, you can just stat swap to the other.

 

Edit: The best option IMO is to wait until the next major patch since it will introduce a new and possibly better stat combo for sup chrono, and we don’t exactly know what’s anet’s going to do with pchrono for the time being.

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Edit: For reference Mind Stab on greatsword is a 1.0 coefficient so the mantra does about 30% more damage, is instantly applied and can be used back to back.

Being a utility skill, wouldn’t the mantra use the unequipped weapon strength - which is ~690, compared to the greatsword weapon strength of ~1050? My tooltips states that mind stab does ~1000-1100 dmg, but power spike only ~800.

 

Also keep in mind MoP is currently used in the IA pchrono build to get to 33-34k dps (not talking about the 40k DT build because I believe that deserves to be nerfed) and is one of its few reliable aoe skills, so considering these little facts would be nice to add to the argument.

 

Adding additional CD is fine since the rotation waits for MoP to be on 2 charges anyway. Charge time increase you might have to argue for. Alternatively, these could all be PvP changes but I know that some people don’t like taking that route.

As someone who has attempted making a danger+lost time build:

- Slow uptime can range from theorhetically 100% to not-that-high depending on build. However, you may need to keep in mind you will always begin attackig an enemy who is not slowed (specific utilities like Well of Action may help)

- The only reason dps Chrono runs a heap of assassin gear is because illusions are not affected by traits and other things like Sigil of Accuracy, for example. A danger+lost time build does not use illusions as much, and your setup is perfectly capable of running full zerkers (in other words, yes to your second question)

- Ferocity does not have a cap (except if you want to min-max, because at some point, putting points into power has much more gain than ferocity) Keeping putting on zerkers (because there’s no other significantly good choice, maybe besides valkyrie)

- Third spec would Domination 2-2-2 - this spec is actually worth more than Dueling is terms of -maximum- dmg output for the mesmer (because not considering illusions), unless you plan to take this to pvp, which I don’t do

- Not sure but well of calamity, action and mantra of pain would be a logical choice for more ‘hits’ and therefore dmg output, unless you want survivability.

 

Some random notes about a danger+lost time spec:

- Mesmer actually has **really** bad hit-rate/speed, unless auto attacking on GS. Your illusions’ attacks don’t count as your own and the proc requires 6 hits (5 for stack, 1 to activate). That’s two full sword chains on a single target, or only one proc on blurred frenzy :astonished: And GS just happens to be a bad weapon at sustained damage

- This build takes dps Chrono’s cleave or mobbing capability down a level. There’s also the chance the proc will activate on the wrong target and the stacks won’t necessarily build up faster because of the random ICD

- This build lacks a clear burst, which is now the real meta in PvE, the reason why professions such as DH, Holo, Weaver and now Soulbeast are undisputed kings of most instanced PvE content, and why dps Chrono is annoyingly widely considered as suboptimal in comparison

Any build can be ‘viable’, but power mirage has a reservation for a kick at high end PvE (T4, raids and that stuff). Also power Mesmers don’t get to use full zerk unless they want their phantasms to be ridiculously unreliable, have to run some 70-30% split with assasins/zerk (I personally run zerk trinkets everything else assasins, yet that’s still not enough), to the point where even with runes you have less power than a full Harrier setup. But it’s optimal somehow(?).

- Unless you REALLY need to use axe, I think that even core mes (Dom/Duel/Illu) would generally do better than mirage with power dmg. At the very least it can deal burst dmg better and generate its own might stacks/boons.

- MH sword (especially with OH sword) is strictly better than anything else power related except GS, which is only good for trash mob burst or range. So the weapon sets **have to be Sw/Sw** + GS or (“empty”)/X (usually focus). Of course, this is *more effiecient*, not necessarily *better (fun to play)*.

- The non-mirage traits look alright, except Fencer’s Finesse (in duel) can be taken because sword should be used. I don’t know which mirage traits are useful since most of them don’t complement a zerk power build in the first place. Mostly just utilities/extra effects.

- If you want to run Illu somewhere (probably on top of dom/mirage), run traits 1-2-1. Dom is better on non-phantspamming builds (non-chronos), however.

 

Power mirage is particularly useful for tagging and or mobility, but falls extremely short compared to the meta pChrono, whose trump cards are not only phantasm resummon (alongside the use of a broken skill/bug/‘legal’ exploit), but also alacrity+improved alacrity and decent self quickness coverage if using Illu (SC has the Dom variant on benchmarks, but I prefer Illu instead).

I don’t pvp but I would suspect that ele, glass and condi don’t go well together (also considering maybe melee and long cast times as well).

 

There is a (possibly outdated) [pve build](

), but from what I understand it’s practically an offshoot of FA sword weaver. It uses a specific setup to get up to 100% burn duration with little to no expertise (smoldering sigil, flame legion runes, burning precision and weaver’s prowess + food?) but is probably worse than either full power or condi (viper) weaver in optimal situations.

A two-hand or OH, so we get another phantasm, except this one should do something so cool you’d think ‘*wow this would be great with chronophantasma!*’ before realising cross-elites specs are not possible. And phantasms can be sad sometimes.

 

Obliged to go with MH pistol, but also thinking that AoE/cleave options are horribly lacking atm.

Made an edit to the original post since I had no intention discussing specifically lava font or ele.

>Edit: to make post clearer -

> - Changed title in case it triggered certain people (was originally ‘Phantasms vs Lava Font...’)

> - This is not a buff/nerf thread, but a thread pointing out random things about phantasms, good or bad, intentional or unintentional.

> - I would like to know what people think of phantasms and interactions within the game (does this sound reasonable? etc.)

Additionally:

- iWarden and iDisenchanter’s projectiles can target and get absorbed by invulnerable targets (even if other targets are available)

- Ranged phantasms have some ability to spawn anywhere near the target (including behind). Could be what makes them harder to avoid.

- Phantasms turn into down state clones if you’re currently in downstate (and can probably be separately stomped)

- iRogue (down #3) is particularly useful when running Chronophantasma since both the heavy dmg and the 25% CD reduction happens twice

 

Try looking each property mentioned for all game modes PvE, WvW and PvP. It may be that one feature may affect another in some manner (can be either good or bad).

 

Report other bizarre/random phantasm features here :smile:

Perhaps I wasn’t clear. I’m saying that these unique features/limitations to phantasms makes them interesting in PvP (so keep them, sure), but are randomly affecting PvE in the most random ways.

 

I’m aware LF is a ground target skill but then it’s hard for me to find a another whole entire skill type that always asks for a target. PvE wise, they work in almost the same way, where it’s fire and forget. You can’t completely ‘forget’ phantasms as they are affected by things in the initial post.

> @"snowflake.9037" said:

> I wish I could just walk a little to the left to avoid a phantasm damage entirely.

>

Anything can unintentionally avoid iSwordsman in the same way they can walk out of lava font. Yes, other phants are harder to avoid, and I believe they shouldn’t spawn if you dodge, since for some phantasms it’s a 1s cast of inevitability unless you cc, blind or invuln. However, coming from PvE, you have to remember that the enemy ai in PvE is usually too stupid to avoid lava font, its limitations can be completely ignored because all ticks will hit.

> Isn't LF nerfed already? Why not use a better example? Mesmers are one of the most oppressive classes in pvp and a mandatory pick since the game's inception in pve.

 

LF still remains a portion of the lifeblood of the dps a staff ele, similar to phants with phantasm mesmer. Also I don’t think you’d automatically go pick a pChrono over any other dps class (talking about end tier PvE here). Support chrono only really needs to get its first phantasm cast off, after that they’re all just random extra dps increases... pChrono is heavily reliant on these working in the 0 external factors ‘golem conditions’ in order to compete properly with other dps picks.

 

This is just sharing what I think.

I’ve been playing power chrono for PvE over while now and I’ve noticed a number of things.

 

This gameplay shares similar principles to staff ele variants and DH in that you want to stack as much DoT (usually AoE) skills as you can to achieve max dps (the pchrono opener includes 11 individual phant casts, 22 phants in total). However, phantasms are a mes-specific mechanic that are unique to other conventional skills in a number of ways. These features appear to exist for PvP (WvW included) purposes, and affects PvE in some possibly unintended ways:

 

1. Phantasms can be targeted and be subsequently killed. This makes sense in a lot of ways, especially in PvP or when you use phants to distract instead of clones, but it takes away the damage component in a trash mob heavy environment. All player summoned minions have 95% dmg and Condi duration reduction from AoEs in PvE (cleaves not sure), which most bosses use but trash mobs tend to have single target skills which my phants tend to involuntarily bodyblock (dies in two hits).

2. Phantasms can be interrupted. For PvP, this adds an additional layer of counterplay as either the mes or the phantasm can be interrupted. The interrupted phant will proceed to become a clone. However, for PvE, the enemy can sometimes telegraph an AoE CC that you can avoid, but your iWardens or iWhatever can’t because of their long cast time. It’s hard to apply stab to them as well. This isn’t particularly a nice thought for the 1s cast time phants (the most spammed ones) where you run some demanding risks by being able to have your dmg interrupted twice.

3. Blinds. Again logical in PvP. Your phant fails to cast when you are blinded resulting in no boons (if any) no dmg, no boons or dmg again (if chronophantasma) and then no clone. Put on full CD. Think about the 1s casts. (At least phants can’t get blinded very easily in PvE or the double risk thing would apply again.)

4. *Out of range* fail cast (target moves out of range at last second). Same as above. Makes sense if target goes behind a wall, however.

5. Invuln. Logical in PvP. Same as above. This really sucks when autotarget decides to target the boss in phase when you want to kill the trash at their feet. Also destroys phants that are yet to do their second cast and their corresponding clone if running Chronophantasma. You are still allowed to summon clones on invuln for some reason.

 

In comparison to many other skills:

- {Lava font/Blades of Procession/Maul/etc.} cannot be destroyed

- {...} cannot be interrupted by hitting anything but the caster

- {...} is still (mostly) ‘cast’ when blind

- {...} is still (mostly) ‘cast’ when target goes out of range

- {...} can be cast when target is invuln

- Exceptions made for points 1 & 2 for skill types such as turrets, minions, etc. However, these skills are not always on skillbar.

- Many skills will be ‘mostly’ casted, but phantasms will completely fail to appear at all.

 

Finally, what really keeps me up is phants and their interaction with % mods. According to wiki they are completely unaffected, but that would mean fractal offensive pots would mean zilch which I swear they’re not. Also temporary mechanics that increase dmg by some amount (sometimes up to +200% (enrage?)). Which % mods affects phants and why/why not?

 

Additionally I’ve noticed that phants don’t count to your attacks at all, but I understand some consequences if they did (signet of agony procs, lost time build, subject 6 shield, etc).

 

What do you also know/think about phantasms?

 

Edit: to make post clearer -

- Changed title in case it triggered certain people (was originally ‘Phantasms vs Lava Font...’)

- This is not a buff/nerf thread, but a thread pointing out random things about phantasms, good or bad, intentional or unintentional.

- I would like to know what people think of phantasms and interactions within the game (does this sound reasonable? etc.)

I would look at things like cast times (for some reason usually around 3/4s - same as DJ), range (mostly sword) and the core ele’s survivability mechanic (survival/sustain with +0 toughness, healing power). Also, I would look at core ele’s ability to empower itself with might and fury reliably without having to blast fields beforehand. This is of course, completely IMO.

> @"Lahmia.2193" said:

> tl:dr. OP plays pve and wants weapons to only cater to that gamemode.

That’s not entirely an insightful view at the OP. It’s more likely they saw that ‘utility’ weapons (whatever they may be) did less than other weapon choices, probably on a dps build, and then asked *why?* *Why*, as it seems, is a very difficult idea to express to a majority of players. For example:

- Why is ele water attunement never destined to do damage?

 

The question above relates heavily to the topic at hand. *It’s for support*. So you say that water shall **never** see real useablity in a dps build? So you say that this will forever be the case? I KNOW that players will *instantly* disagree with my stance and send me to the depths of the mists - this thread is no different.

 

Utility in PvE. Does it really matter, if a weapon (MH or two-hand, druid’s staff, for example) is entirely kept back by this? Skill splits can be made; don’t just chuck this option out the window. Discuss - positively or negatively, but constructively. 1) for PvE, druid staff is entirely useless if you don’t build for healing. You can’t damage effectively and you can’t heal effectively; however, you get a nice long distance evade and a cool anti-projectile wall. I don’t care about wvw/pvp and I don’t want changes there. Is it worth the trouble?

 

This thread really needs to be read with different eyes to see it’s worth.

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:

> > This isn’t just all about DPS. There is an element of RP and basic commonsense that needs to considered in the OP, considering this is PvE only.

> >

>

> I'm sorry, but balance beats RP any time in a game.

>

> The amount of work required and potentially even split skills between pve and spvp and wvw would be insane.

>

> Does it suck that some weapons are better at pve content and others see almost no use because they do not provide maximum damage, sure. Is this easily remedied? No.

As I may have not stated clearly, they don’t need to do the same damage. They just need to be in some useable damage range in PvE. Being 4-6k below max (for a start) is fine since there is ¿some? utility to balance the dmg offset. 8k below, it becomes highly questionable. Considering how much number% buffs anets randomly pumps out, and whilst some dedication would be required, it shouldn’t become ridiculously complex. Most weapons already have an AA and at least 1, if not 2 skills that already do dmg; we should work from these.

 

Utility becomes a skritt-tonne more effective in competitive game modes, so I wasn’t asking for damage there, and nor was/should the OP.

 

Perhaps we should start with the main offenders, the weapons that tickle even if you spec fully into dmg? We don’t need this to happen straight away. Bring the weapons up a big notch (but nowhere near over or even at max) and then fine tune them up to acceptable levels.

This isn’t just all about DPS. There is an element of RP and basic commonsense that needs to considered in the OP, considering this is PvE only.

 

Let’s consider a mace themed guardian, how guardian *is portrayed in its artwork*. Let’s say that the player doesn’t give jack squat about the absolute max dps but still wants to do some actual dmg to be considered a dps role. Why is it that the build is instantly 50% less effective in dmg compared to a greatsword/scepter? Throw longbow in there as well, *it’s on the dragonhunter art as well*. Does having a block with a lame bite or 1200 range REALLY give you that much of an UNFAIR advantage *against AI controlled mobs*?

 

The issue that the OP is looking at is quite basic; they’re not looking for weapons to do the exact same amount of dmg. But for PvE (where difference in utility and damage is a skritt-tonne smaller), when a weapon is flat-out around <75% effective as the best (replacing weapons on meta builds that don’t interact with weapon choice), that’s red lights for shoddy weapon development and lazy game consideration. 80% should be the furtherest and is already quite far (30k -> 24k). The amount of damage (in PvE) should be mostly dictated by trait choices and utility slot allocations, and not significantly by weapon choice. For one handed sets, the MH *should* have most of the damage, where the choice factors between OH weapons can have impact (where you can argue utility weapons shouldn’t have the missing ~15% dmg (or up to 5k dps) of the complete build).

 

It’s not just DPS. What if a rifle themed warrior wants to make it to high-end raid runs with their guild? A condi mirage with a scepter? You can’t just force them to switch to axes, or else you’re forcing their character to become a theme-less robots.

The biggest problem I find to be arguable with power mes would be its half assed burst (enough to kill vets and players pvp-wise, otherwise crppy on bosses). Another problem would be the perception around it (I made a post about pChrono some month ago). Lack of cleave doesn’t particularly stand out compared to some other meta and second-to-meta choices.

 

Most of the classes mentioned above have some great burst which makes them great/still great for meta. But as it should be known, meta goes best with meta. As soon as the meta composition falls out in some way, this is where pMesmer randomly appears. Like after 30-50s for a fractal boss or so. The build for this playstyle naturally blows unbuffed dps buffoons out of the water. It has a variety of panic buttons at hand. It doesn’t have a ridiculously demanding rotation. Therefore, pMesmer has a strong position in PUGs where meta builds and especially, *good players* cannot be confirmed. It loses its mojo the higher up the meta level but it doesn’t mean it should be totally rejected (especially if speedruns are not in question).

 

> @"dontlook.1823" said:

> I was doing 50k+ to big groups in video. meant to show it does pretty good bursting down lower-tier mobs as well as bosses.

My dps log always gets pooped for trash mobs since I always have to begin combat with focus #4 and then DHs get to show off their mad numbers :anguished:

 

edit: wait... this is a ressed thread... /gg. Soooooooo hows power Mesmer now?

If you reaaaally want to use greatword, perhaps just copy the metabattle site but just replace the focus set with GS. This *will* put you in some suboptimal state but this isn’t hardcore raiding. It should take you quite far, much like mine has for me.

 

If you want a generally stupid idea, take domination/dueling/chrono. You can replace dueling/chrono with illusions if you have to/feel like it. Main traits are imagined burden and chronophantasma (if applicable) and main skills are phantasmal berserker, phantasmal disenchanter, phantasmal defender and signet of ether. You press the skills in their listed order... and then you press them again. With practice, continuum split lets you do this three times. Now you have an illusory army fighting for you o_O This ironically was the last non-meta build that I ran before switching over to what is majorly the meta.

One of the openers that I found for condi weaver stacks an obscene amount of burning (potentially ~30 stacks, not mentioning how much condi dmg mods weaver can take). You wouldn’t use this on trash mobs (open world) though as that’s simply overkill (might use it for instanced content, however, though you lose out on sustained dmg).

 

Power sword is quite slow imo (which infuriates me) which makes it as bad as how people like to describe the condi variant. Why does flame uprising, cauterising strike, fire grab and quantum strike all have to have the same long cast time as the deadeye’s death’s judgement? Were eles really designed to be this slow/highly telegraphed?

Another condi weaver joins the fray! :D

 

Condi weaver is technically sturdier than the power variant. Assuming that you’re running the correct traits, you already gain a passive 10% dmg reduction for being within range as well as some significant toughness boosts (assuming you’re glass) for being attuned to earth. On top of that, because sword condi weaver capitalises more on pretty much pressing every skill as fast as possible, especially dual attacks, you get much more from your barriers and healing signet. Generally speaking, your rotation (dual attacks, earth attunement, earthen vortex, molten armor, **CC, don’t you dare forget CC**, maybe weave self) and that 10% passive already covers for a lot of your defenses.

 

Dps condi weaver has this thing where how it plays depends on how you rotate. There’s a specific rotation for something that somewhat functions like a burst. Another for trash mob clearing. A general one for reliable dps. I personally think it all comes down knowing your skills and possible combinations; after all, you follow almost the same principles as a power weaver for open world (i.e. if it’s not dead fast enough, you probably will be).

 

In fractals (and maybe on to raids), condi weaver survives the same way as almost every other 90-100% melee specs would. It’s a matter of knowing your enemy, flanking, abusing evade frames, taking advantage of other people aggroing and also knowing your limitations where you might need to pull back. For raids, condi weaver has a major issue since even its basic rotation can put it in a position where it has +620 toughness, effectively stealing unwanted aggro if the tanker doesn’t build for that much toughness.

 

I wouldn’t really recommend blasting water fields unless it’s really convenient (e.g water/earth).

Don't want to be annoying but...

It would be best if you stated your intentions for this new toon - i.e. raids, hardcore solo, wvw, pvp, etc. Also, keep in mind that professions may vary in difficulty not only across professions but also builds (the condi variant may be more faceroll than power, or some variant requires piano hands to reach full effectiveness etc.) and for PvE (especially hardcore solo), reliance on others/other classes' boons, conditions and or effects.

Ardyn is hard at first, until you discover the pots lying around on the floor. Don’t let that boss deceive you in how difficult HoT should be.

 

The area gets easier/more bearable the more you play (and learn). Try new tactics until you hit the right one.

 

Edit: should be slightly more specific - positioning is key. Learn to place yourself in the right location and remember that you are not a statue.

I hate to pull up this thread once more, but I've finally been kicked for playing (more correctly, stating that I played) a DPS Chrono amidst a regularly advertised 'T4s' group. Maybe it was mostly on my part. For a brief recount: upon entering - '2 chronos?' issue (hey... I have no inspiration siggy!), followed with me saying, *'I'm not a chrono'* (:-1: point for me, my horrible sarcasm) before someone asking whether I was dps (which I answered to, too indirectly maybe? *'What else could I be?'* another :-1: for me) shortly followed with a kick (possible accumulation of :-1:). They didn't even get to see the build's potential in combat or at least, at the level that I played it assuming that they already had - for a player who didn't perform as well. Heck, they didn't even ask me whether I had a different spec.

 

I'm tired of this. I can't answer these questions without losing my mind. If I have to tell every. single. party. that I join, there's gonna be no end to it...

 

This shouldn't be an issue that happens for any player. We shouldn't have the '2 chronos?' issue. Similarly, we shouldn't have a 'fake chrono' (dps chrono), 'fake temp' (heal temp), 'fake dps renegade' (support renegade), etc. There NEEDS to be a more obvious indicator for these specialised roles/roles which people choose to play that are still more than viable. I can't say for certain what the end resolution should be - whether the community gets better at accepting that these players and builds exist, that some tool is developed for these players or maybe something else. If you think I'm referring to players who play bizarre-out-of the-blue builds, read again or do some research, I'm referring to builds which are slightly off meta and are 100% as viable in capable hands (and minds and teamwork, if that all still exists).

 

Otherwise I'm stuck playing my condi weaver that I know no-one will check (it's a weaver, who cares) - it evidently works a lot better for me in pug environments than the meta power weaver but unfortunately, I don't play it as well as my chrono, it has way less utility than my chrono, so it's more to everyone's detriment than my own.

 

Edit: what are you meant to refer to the support chrono as? Support chrono? supChrono? sChrono? Chrono? o_O

> @"alkaline.2938" said:

> How...? How do you survive just face tanking like that? I dive in and melt faster then an ice cube being shot into the sun.

It’s probably in the stats and the protection uptime. Although when I play, someone tends to boonstrip/corrupt or a +1 oneshot build appears and goes ‘WvW noob, GTFO’ and proceeds to make my existence irrelevant. They can probably smell my PvE glass armor :scream:.

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> Could you elaborate a bit? I'm lost. My meta dps build relies heavily on group support. It requires boons, healing and CC supplied by someone else. What do you suppose would happen if 5 players like me teamed up for a t4+cm daily clear? Because, you know, you can't look for supports.

Don’t be like that, they’ll find an off-meta firebrand and renegade to party with you xD.

 

I hated playing the build that I assume you’re speaking of... that’s why I now have a condi Weaver. I’m totally fit for this guild :smile:.

 

Chrono’s a good pick. I used to proficiently solo champions and group events with one, but then I discovered high-end PvE content xD. That chrono has since gone full glass and can only deal with champs by bursting them as fast as possible within the amount of active mitigation that the class provides. Still works for some cases, just in a different way :smile:.

 

The shield is a particularly strong tool for defense - two lengthy blocks that summon phantasms that provide protection (#4) and a heavy cc (#5) which paired with diversion, can rip through break bars. MH Sword is a no brainer, and you can additionally take (MH) scepter/sword (OH) somewhere for an absurd amount of 100% dmg mitigation; the combo’s definitely not the best option, but it exists for you to use. Staff is good too for blinking backwards if things get hot. The mesmer is LOADED with active mitigation useful for solo (and it gets better with chrono); you might actually find it more to your liking.

 

(I hope I got this post on time before someone suggests mirage instead. Don’t fall for it! :tongue:)

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > @"Noodle Ant.1605" said:

> > The devs seemingly want eles to actually build to utilise the trait in an effective manner.

>

> Except the effective way to utilize the trait is to still run full zerk. It was just a random nerf.

It’s a full on damage trait. To be fair, most damage traits are only used best by the most offensive setups - the more dmg you do, the more the mods effect the numbers. A question that could be phrased from this though is: would it be better to leave it as a 13% conversion, or just have it as +150 ferocity, or yet still, remove the bonus and just leave the 10% mod by itself, while unnerfing/buffing other parts of elementalist? I can agree that it’s hit the dps weavers hard (used to give ~24% crit dmg, now gives ~8%, so -16%, cuz math emphasises things) - with no real compensation to boot (besides more nerfs, sry ‘buffs’ that ‘frontloaded’ ele dmg :no_mouth:).

> @"yumee.1405" said:

> @"Noodle Ant.1605" Well Yeah it seems to be the thing, but then master's fortitude shouldn't say they up vitality but directly health pool so it doesn't gets my hopes up by thinking traits could work together ^^

Believe or not, there is some synergy between these two traits. It just doesn't work like you think. You see, I was thinking about the Guardian's trait, [Force of Will](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Force_of_Will") which increases vitality by 300, which is also considered in the secondary outgoing heal effect. Because of this, I was thinking 'Why doesn't Master's Fortitude + Elements of Rage work like that?' The thing is, the 300 vitality from Force of Will is a flat bonus, added directly to the stats. THIS also is the case with Master's Fortitude + Elements of Rage, except as you probably know, the flat bonus only comes from equipping a sword.