saerni.2584

I kind of play that already. Being a permastealth thief never appealed to me as I like to actually hit my targets and out maneuver them in plain sight. People get obsessed with SA asking to nerf everything but the biggest thing stealth wise (for most professions that have so-called issues with stealth uptime) is smoke combo fields that don't get any bonuses from SA (if we are looking at thief specifically). So either you go for big system wide changes to smoke fields or you need targeted changes. If people want an effective nerf, you could always nerf initiative generation in stealth from Grandmaster trait and you'd basically get rid of a lot of permastealth style gameplay. Everything else is a reasonable cooldown at this point. One option is a bigger boost of 2 initiative for going into stealth, but no constant ticks. That would balance out to a buff to short stealth uptime and a nerf to long stealth uptime.

Lol I love suggestions that are just "delete it and replace." You leave out "why delete XYZ" and "what to replace it with ABC" and "why ABC and not DEF." This is (one reason of many) why nerf threads don't go anywhere.

Hmm thought this would be better in GenerL but no attention. @"Forum Moderator.5907" can you move this to WvW sun forum? Thanks.

I'd focus more then on the Spear since you are using a melee build. Spear has a lot of evade and stealth built in, a block w/ counter attack. Generally, Spear with those stats should be able to hit rather hard. Harpoon Gun as offhand of course, but there's only two choices so...Spear is what you will camp and HG if you need to reposition (there's a backwards pushing skill) or travel (there's a IA style teleport).

Both underwater weapons are good enough. The big issue is a lot of skills are locked underwater so you will end up having a different skill bar. You may want to post a build you have now (using gw2skills) and then we can comment on it and make suggestions.

One shot BS is very uncommon these days. Unless vs glass or uplevels. Which shouldn't be considered balance wise.

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > i think i forgot what the ingame music sounds like? Ikr....I turned it on a few months back. Much nostalgia.

> @"Justine.6351" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > That poor Bronze Legend...should have been more careful. > > > > It's always shocking to see the variance. Some downs do nothing. Others are practically the second stage of the fight :pensive: > > Well to be fair, he did try port stomping, then tried stealth stomping :/ Teleport stomping would not be my first, or second or third, choice vs Mesmer. Honestly, even stealth stomp can get a little messy because most of the time the stealth lasts just a moment later than the stomp even if the teleport didn't move the mes out of range. These days, cleave and taking out clones is what I focus on. But yeah that thief sure was glassy. That hit took out 40%+ instantly.

That poor Bronze Legend...should have been more careful. It's always shocking to see the variance. Some downs do nothing. Others are practically the second stage of the fight :pensive:

I'd say thief isn't unique in being able to run. Warrior and Soulbeast both have extremely survivable builds that can run fast, endure/evade a lot of damage, and in the Soulbeast example still set up a burst from 1200-1500 range. The complaint about thief isn't legitimate. If you can't keep up against a mobile target then stop chasing them. Focus on the objectives and targets you can kill. If the thief ends up chasing you, then you will have cut down both their damage and escape ability. So by not indulging in the chase you force them to decide whether to stick around. If you want to kill the thief absolutely no matter what having range burst helps stop a thief from running. Just position that burst in their escape path and keep firing. So does clouding to catch the thief. You should assume the thief has mobility and anticipate where they are going to move. You may be slower but you can be smarter.

> @"Biermeister.4678" said: > > @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > @"purple.6194" said: > > > > Well, hit two pages, Ladies and gents, original post just referring to deadeye and their ability to hide in keeps forever and port groups in from outside outer wall directly to lord room, ( yes this is a thing). No it is not a matter of strategy or skill. Yes you can do it with core and daredevil, it is easier with deadeye, people who do it aren't god gamer's I know 10 people across the NA servers ( there are more obviously merely restricting it to advance my point here) that do it for up six to hours during their respective timezones. 8 of those 10 have 600+ ping with unstable connection, 4 out of this group bug under the map to build untargettable cats from underneath. No they wont get banned its been years . While this is happening bl keeps becomes largely indefencible, redbl in particular is that much more vulnerable with the keeps being far easier to hide in and response time on that shithouse map being that much longer. As a result the keeps go to paper while the thieve's and squads that use them ktrain it up and just wait for them to logoff before bothering to upgrade on the bl's. This has its impact on everything else but again just one step at a time, > > > > > > > > I said fix deadeye's and not fix thief for one simple reason, deadeye is the easiest to do this on, therefore that is what the keep hider's use. keep it as basic as possible, this does not need to get into the weeds of confusing concepts. > > > > If there was a skill element at all, fair enough its just an odd bad gameplay minigame within the game for players to play. There is not, this is obviously another unintentional result of throwing kitten at a wall without any followup. > > > > > > > > I am not talking about roaming, issues with stealth generally, or strategies to 1shot thieves with rangers' cus thats solid gameplay! That is a whole other issue that obviously needs solving but again one baby step at a time. Up until this month there has been no reason to even bring it up, i don't think the forums are of much value at all, but again simply here since there was some actual wvw changes that even indicate someone is looking at wvw at all > > > > > > > > ALSO can't resist, INB4 git gud round 2 :) > > > > > > Lol. Clearly just making up examples. "I know a guy." "They are all hacking/exploiting under the map." "Six hours a day kek." > > > > > > That sounds really boring. Kittens and puppies level of "why would anyone even try that for 20 minutes let alone 5+ hours?" > > > > > > Oh right. Because it doesn't happen. > > > > Also, why is permastealth even an issue if he's talking about hackers? If these people are untargetable due to being under the map, them being thieves is wholly irrelevant. If the deadeye is hiding in a keep and doing it legitimately without hacking, the fact that hackers exist is wholly irrelevant. Just sounds like an attempt to link thieves to hackers in the hope they get nerfed, frankly. > > Because permastelth hides the hack and that is the problem Oh don't worry. Most people using hacks aren't trying to hide it. I fought a rev the other day. Soon as he got downed he disappeared. Later he started teleporting into camps right in front of me and others. Permastealth doesn't hide hackers because 99% of hackers aren't running thief and don't even bother running builds with stealth either. Professions I've seen hacking in the last year: 1. Many core engineers 2. Many core guardians/firebrands 3. A single rev

Usually, you choose to focus more on evade or stealth. But a lot depends on whether you are talking about PvE or PvP (WvW or sPvP). I'd say start by picking a weapon set and then ask for advice on building for it. If you like backstab, stealth and double dagger I'd suggest starting with a Shadow Arts-Trickery-Deadly Arts.

Not clear on exactly "when" this happened. It was pretty early on though. I was by a small group near Veloka. There were three of us. One enemy appeared. He was some kind of thief, it might have even been dagger/dagger. We all died. He just gracefully dipped in and out of stealth, leaving death in his wake. It was what made me want to get good at WvW.

I recommend recording Shadowplay or similar in the background. That way you can save your death and watch it back at 50% speed. Helps figure things out.

Most bots I run into are guardians or engineers. They tend to have pretty decent damage potential but simple rotations and predictable in their actions. Warning signs include: 1. Suddenly pathing back to the same point when you are in stealth. 2. Pathing the exact same route repeatedly. 3. Performing high damage combos extremely consistently while sticking very closely to you at all times (very robotic in your face gameplay choices, they never kite). Many bots are also hacking: 1. Speed hacks in combat (jerky teleporting) 2. Movement hacks (teleporting into objectives or nearby to objectives). A few are smarter and usually teleport out of sight of objectives and then travel normally to the objective, but you see them returning to objectives faster than legitimately possible and from the wrong direction (coming from the direction of your spawn not theirs). The good news is that most bots aren't that dangerous and the ones that use hacking are doubly annoying but doubly worse at playing.

> @"Zereqiel.8249" said: > Does the 10% only affect damage from power or all damage output? Power. It's a strike damage bonus.

I'll do something in the new year. Suggest a theme? I'm open to making whatever.

Thief isn't weak but it isn't OP. Source: me. I'm not a streamer or a pro. But I do know thief pretty well. Take that for what it's worth. If you want a video, I posted one recently for fun. It's in the thief forum under Christmas. It's not versus the best players so...don't @ me saying the obvious.

@"Fueki.4753" @"UNOwen.7132" SA was always a stealth line. It used to be better sustain because you could take Shadows Embrace and the Deception cooldown trait. But whatever. This "oh it's OP because damage" is actually a complaint that thief was able to take it and pick up some minor damage boosts from a "sustain" line. But, SA is just a stealth oriented line with more sustain boosts than offensive boosts. That SA is/should be only a pure sustain line is a common misconception among the general pvp player base. I'd point out that in a meta where damage is reduced the sustain offered by a line like SA is fairly attractive. It's not that thief damage from the line is too high. It's that people just don't like fighting stealth gameplay.

You probably have each tick looking something like this: 1. 5 stacks 2. 10 stacks 3. 6 stacks 3. 5 stacks 4. 3 stacks 5. 2 stacks 6. 2 stacks But, the damage is a little screwy because you don't have 48k HP before you are downed. Assuming 20k HP you probably were downed within 3-4 seconds. The rest is piling on the damage on your downed body. The spike was 5-7k per second. A cleanse would mean the rest wouldn't have been able to down you. But without reaction time you ate a ton of extra damage - including on your downed state.

> @"kamikharzeeh.8016" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"purple.6194" said: > > > The mount sniff bell, to *indicate* a stealth enemy may be in the area, is not the counterplay to a perm stealth deadeye. > > So you are saying the skill that doesnt show stealthed players or reveal is not counterplay to permastealth deadeyes?!?!? > > > > WHY DO I KEEP PLAYING THIS GAME WRONG?! > > good question, but we cannot help u there, dawdly. > > > @"Justine.6351" said: > > > @"GenerationX.9178" said: > > > I think thief should be deleted from the game. Most thieves spam dodge, stealth or port all day long not to mention most skills are instant. > > > > And the laserbeams! Don't forget the laserbeams! > > agreed, and i'd also accept to delete thief with lazorbeams, but he might just port to the other side of the map and dodge it :cold_sweat: > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"aspirine.6852" said: > > > I would not mind that sniff can detect steath players too. Probably the easiest fix to annoy permastealths in keeps... > > > > It already can. It plays the chime for player detected. However, it doesn't show the position of the stealthed person on mini map. > > what aspirine writes was the original meaning of it, but it got softened up, bc thieves started crying instantly. > > what saerni writes.... is plainly incorrect. you can get a good overview of who is where, roughly, but if the stealth is yet ongoing, you don't see them. only the map lag may be causing u to get a semi-accurate spotting with sniff. warclaw is overall pretty useless by now, and sniff's only real use is to spot a full zerg/blobs position within a limited, barely-out-of-sight range. > > @"Caedmon.6798" ".... toi duel the class that hurts you. Its on You,not the spec. Realize this." > u're either very sarcastic or try to joke here, right? why do u assume everyone wants to duel? who on earth has a billion of gearslots to run roamergear and skillsets just to duel some overbored spvpers? i wreckt enough of them with zergsets in single combat yet, but not bc i wanted, but becuse they'll just chase u and call their buddies if u don't just fight them. thanks to the snailclaw, it got even more easy for these people to force everyone to play on their terms. :-1: > > (also even IF u dueled "a class"... classes have different builds. and you first need to be able to switch to your roamerbuild fast enough before engages happen, that's at least two klicks plus avoiding the warclawdaze at demounting.) > > @"CharonXeno.4869" > kinda expect their moves. smallscale players are greedy af, and are superlikely to chase you. turn around, let them run into you, and fire sometimes big bombs in expected pathing. worked way better before the dps nerfs on everything, since thieves literally just exploded against serious damage classes. now for example killing any of them with a hammer rev is way more complicated. u can surely 111 them down, but every move the zergset rev does is extremly slow and predictable. > what's not working is to reveal deadeyes. ( @"SuchosCZ.2167" ) your reveals will rarely be fast enough to cc them on most classes. firing AoE into their position when they set up this stealthing-house thingy is also good, since they always take at least a bit dmg, some even die straight there. > > @"aleron.1438" and u think it's better now bc they die in three seconds, from just a more heavy setup or (more common) a combined pew pew of three glasscannons? even in 1v1, it only got harder to kill a thief accidently. > > and no @"saerni.2584" ... what @"purple.6194" wrote does happen. i even got accidently put under the map on many classes. and yeah u can cast stuff from there. and there's not too few thieves that do this perma-hide and seek play for hours. > > @"Apokriphos.7042" i only see too few nerfs towards smallscale. the focus of wvw should be largescale, that's literally what serperates it from spvp. > > @"Virdo.1540" has also a point... most revels are so incredibly smallrange that they miss a thief that stands even 400 next to you.. What is incorrect about saying it plays a chime? It does. I also said it doesn't ping the mini map, which it doesn't. And your counter to my saying it is extremely boring and unlikely is to double down on claims of map hacking (which doesn't require thief at all) and saying people do hide in keeps for hours. Which is to say, I never actually said it never happens, just that it is so unlikely to happen/be worth it for a thief that it isn't a real problem. So, sure, we can argue past one another but like hiding in a keep for hours on end that would be boring and unproductive.

Always fun to see.

> @"Mike Ditka.2531" said: > Just came back to GW2 after 6+ years away. At launch i was fortunate enough to get the Incinerator, but now that i'm back, it seems like it's no good. What weapon were you using? legendary bow or? Seems like you are a beast at pvp and I was hoping I could get an idea of what's OP and what's not, thanks. I'm using Incinerator, but my main hand is HOPE and my secondary weapon is Chuka. Skins aren't OP though, only in fashion wars :)

> @"purple.6194" said: > Well, hit two pages, Ladies and gents, original post just referring to deadeye and their ability to hide in keeps forever and port groups in from outside outer wall directly to lord room, ( yes this is a thing). No it is not a matter of strategy or skill. Yes you can do it with core and daredevil, it is easier with deadeye, people who do it aren't god gamer's I know 10 people across the NA servers ( there are more obviously merely restricting it to advance my point here) that do it for up six to hours during their respective timezones. 8 of those 10 have 600+ ping with unstable connection, 4 out of this group bug under the map to build untargettable cats from underneath. No they wont get banned its been years . While this is happening bl keeps becomes largely indefencible, redbl in particular is that much more vulnerable with the keeps being far easier to hide in and response time on that shithouse map being that much longer. As a result the keeps go to paper while the thieve's and squads that use them ktrain it up and just wait for them to logoff before bothering to upgrade on the bl's. This has its impact on everything else but again just one step at a time, > > I said fix deadeye's and not fix thief for one simple reason, deadeye is the easiest to do this on, therefore that is what the keep hider's use. keep it as basic as possible, this does not need to get into the weeds of confusing concepts. > If there was a skill element at all, fair enough its just an odd bad gameplay minigame within the game for players to play. There is not, this is obviously another unintentional result of throwing kitten at a wall without any followup. > > I am not talking about roaming, issues with stealth generally, or strategies to 1shot thieves with rangers' cus thats solid gameplay! That is a whole other issue that obviously needs solving but again one baby step at a time. Up until this month there has been no reason to even bring it up, i don't think the forums are of much value at all, but again simply here since there was some actual wvw changes that even indicate someone is looking at wvw at all > > ALSO can't resist, INB4 git gud round 2 :) Lol. Clearly just making up examples. "I know a guy." "They are all hacking/exploiting under the map." "Six hours a day kek." That sounds really boring. Kittens and puppies level of "why would anyone even try that for 20 minutes let alone 5+ hours?" Oh right. Because it doesn't happen.

> @"mtnjkbm.7452" said: > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > @"mtnjkbm.7452" said: > > > > @"saerni.2584" said: > > > > > @"mtnjkbm.7452" said: > > > > > > @"CharonXeno.4869" said: > > > > > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > > > > > > @"Widmo.3186" said: > > > > > > > > To fix deadeye you have to delete it from the game. This spec shouldn't exist from the very beginning. Period. > > > > > > > FYI when i ever had issues facing a certain spec or build i spend Hours dueling it and learning how to counter. If you aint up to that task,you shouldnt be complaining. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ok, I'm willing to learn: > > > > > > How do I counter a (near) perma-stealth Deadeye? What profession and build would you suggest to win against one in, say, at least 2/3rd of all encounters (as you can fine-tune your build specifically against that one type of opponent, while they obviously need to run tradeoffs to deal with different types)? > > > > > > Mind you, counter/win here means "kill the opponent" and not just "don't get killed myself", so please include details on how to keep the Deadeye from escaping (be it via stealth or other means) when they notice they are outmatched. > > > > > > > > > > Play soulbeast and just rapidfire them. > > > > > Play dragonhunter and trueshot them. > > > > > Play fresh air ele and combowombo them. > > > > > Play chrono and do what chrono does to them. > > > > > Play dagger pistol thief, basi them and kill them out of stealth to assert dominance. Play sword dagger thief and show them whos the boss of ports. > > > > > Play burn weaver, outsustain easily and pressure them until they run out of cooldowns or ini, then kill or watch them runaway. > > > > > Play burn tempest, use two signets and watch them panic press all their buttons, keep burning until they eventually die. > > > > > Play power dps tempest, reflect all their stuff and watch them not having a good time with their class, while your air minions and the fire elite one, keep attacking. > > > > > Oh or play shortbow power rev and just sevenshot them. Or herold. > > > > > If u cant oneshot, they probably play condi de with trailblazer runes, just like condi p/d thiefs with their meme scorpionwire. > > > > > If thats the case, just ignore them, since they probably have some issues in rl and just want to be understood or someone hurt them at some point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lol. Condi DE. Actually effective condi DE doesn't run trailblazers. And what are "trailblazer runes?" > > > > > > Lol. Edited. i meant stats. Yeh i really dont know what condi de's or pd thiefs are running exactly, in the end.. just tanky and condi, thats it. Who cares? > > > > Except it's not trailblazers. > > > > Like you can. But malice is built off crits at 100% bonus. So you aren't going to run with no crit in your stats. > > > > And who cares? You did by posting about it? > > > > But I don't think that many are running P/D or condi DE. I've seen maybe 1 condi DE in 50. And he was running rifle. And maybe 2 P/D core thieves. Rest were standard D/P or Rifle power. So like, it's not common and not sure why you are singling it out like you've even fought one before. > > I did post a joke! Im sorry if i offended u cause ure maybe playing this build! OP asking for help against de players, and me posting some classes which dont really have problems against thief while making fun of this build, thats all. > > I have no problem against condi thiefs and dont really care what they are running. Fought some, and besides them spamming imob, i never felt bothered. I'm not offended, just curious. I don't see so many condi DE so I always wonder what people are talking about when they bring it up.