Mikeskies.1536

> @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said:

> >

> > > I'm afraid I disagree that we need more anti spam mechanics in place, rather I think the ability to spam such things in the first place needs to be addressed primarily.

> >

> > That's impossible and makes zero sense due to the fact that the entire reason spam can exist is when nothing punishes it. Any ability can be spam if it can't be punished.

> >

> >

>

> Apply your logic of being unpunishable and suddenly FC is a spam ability; no, avoiding it is not punishment because at worst you're both put back at square zero and you just start over.

>

> Pulm Impact was supposed to be an anti spam mechanic as well which required more strict criteria that FC, and yet it was massively Op.

>

> With FC you press one button and get a multitude of positive effects with no risk whatsoever. If you want to argue counter mechanics are good and necessary, fine; we can have that conversation. But Full Counter is blatantly too strong in its current form.

 

I don't think it's Full Counter. I think its Revenge Counter plus Scourge.

> @Mutaatti.2789 said:

> > @Hitman.5829 said:

> > People need to stop whining and learn to play! Full counter is perfectly fine; in the worst case scenario, full counter is a useless skill when fighting 1 vs 1 or range individuals (which is most of them). Full counter is finally the skill that warrior needed for WvW and PvP. Stop complaining because you are getting owned and learn to play!

> >

> > One can make the argument that full counter is a mediocre skill on 1 vs 1 because of this:

> > 1. - It activates only if you attack the warrior, and the animation is extremely obvious.

> > 2. If the warrior has quickness, then the skill has a cast time of 1/2 the time.

> >

> > Now, what i have noticed in PvE is that the mobs have very slow attack reaction times that full counter is often missed because they simply don't hit the kitten skill.

> > Be patient and don't spam your kitten skills like a zombie 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,f1,f2,f3,f4,f5.

> >

> > This is a learn to play issue and not a balance issue!

> >

> > I have fought many spell-breakers and I know when they will be using their full counter so I simply walk away because they cannot attack me while they are using full counter. Use your brain, learn to play, and stop whining because you are getting owned for spamming your skills like a zombie!

>

> Well please tell me then if you know, how to not trigger FC as a mesmer? Or ranger? Or minionmaster necro? Or symbol guardian? Ihave not seen any advice how to 1v1 spellbreaker as any of these classes.

 

Full Counter is a mechanic, just like any other mechanic. How do I avoid getting shattered by a memser? Or nuked at range by a ranger? Or getting condi-bombed by a necro? Or getting pulled into guardian traps?

I think Grieving is the best, but Sinister/Viper are like 1k DPS behind. Not a big deal until Grieving Insignia/Inscriptions are available.

> * I'm talking about the period of time in between when an attack lands on Full Counter vs. when the aoe strike actually goes out. It's faster than human reaction time. If a Spellbreaker walks into an aoe field and pops fullcounter, you essentially don't see the animation for the block/counter portion of the skill, and the spellbreaker transitions straight from moving/auto attack/whatever, into the counter-strike. If FC is going to be such a strong skill that covers such a large and area, wreaks that much devastation and only has a 6.75s cd, it needs to be slower, like Arc Divider.

> * I'm talking exactly about that stability and particularly the resistance. Every condi build (with exception of boon corrupt necro) is completely hardcountered by a spellbreaker with berserker stance, healing signet (optionally: featherfoot grace) and revenge counter traited. If FC is dodged, the SB should receive absolutely no bonuses.

 

 

Full Counter is already like this...

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > > > @Majirah.5089 said:

> > > > I think full counter is good to have in the game. It punishes people that don't have awareness and aoe spam in team fights. There isn't much else that punishes just dumping a bunch of aoes. Plus it is fully avoidable if you and your team pay attention, which is what you should be doing in a match anyway.

> > > >

> > > > If it's a 1v1 it has an obvious animation and you can either stop attaching for 1.5 seconds and completely negate it or dodge/evade the damage. I have done so effectively almost every time I've fought a spellbreaker 1v1. I've also had other people do the same to me in a 1v1 when I am playing spellbreaker. It's not that hard.

> > > >

> > > > If it's a team fight, I think we need more things like full counter to combat the spam dumping of aoes. Puts more thought into it and punishes spam. I think it's a great addition to the game personally. That's my opinion. Some people disagree. That's fine. Some people agree. That's fine. But I personally think it is good for the game.

> > >

> > > It is not fully avoidable. All the Spellbreaker has to do is use it in the middle of an AoE or channeled skill, and there is zero chance to avoid it. Besides, I dislike getting punished personally for mistakes my teammates make.

> >

> > yes you should be punished for your team play, that's why you are in a team. Teams make or break any team based game, its not a solo endeavour.

>

> Punishment as a team is different from punishment personally. I have no issues with losing a game because my teammates screw up, but I do have a problem with losing half my health and getting cced constantly because of it.

>

> Plus, Spellbreaker punishes some professions not for making a mistake, but simply for using their skills properly...but it doesn't get punished in turn for using its skills improperly.

 

What are you talking about? Endure Pain lasts 2 sec. If that is mistimed, there goes your damage immunity. If I mistime Full Counter, I expose myself and miss out on a Burst reset, and other Burst related traits. Playing Spellbreaker, people are already getting used to not attacking while it is up, then following up with strong attacks and cc. Warrior gets punished in the same way other specs get punished for misplaying.

> @schloumou.3982 said:

> Whole Skill should only affect the one triggering it and unblockable attacks should ignore it. Warrior allready has to many skills where the "counterplay" is kite the warri till its over.

 

Unblockable attacks do currently ignore it. And Full Counter would be useless if it only hit the player triggering it. You go to Full Counter a melee hit, but a Ranger pet hits first, thereby Full Counter would only deal damage to the Ranger and Ranger entities, but the Ranger is 900 units away, i.e Full Counter did nothing.

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > Full > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > > > People know that it is an 8 seconds cooldown because it is a Burst right? All Bursts have 8 second cooldowns.

> > >

> > > One could argue that it shouldn't be a burst skill since its always available regardless of what weapon you are using. Burst skills are dependent on the weapon you are using. And before you try to argue that "it uses adrenalie therefore its a burst", berserk used adrenaline as well, yet no one considered it a burst skill. Berserk was a rage skill, so it makes sense that FC should be a meditation skill tbh.

> >

> > Full Counter not being a Burst skill would make it lose out on Burst traits. Also, Full Counter is the sacrifice for being limited to Level 1 Bursts and 2 Bars of Adrenaline. Berserk is a Rage skill because it enables the use of Primal Bursts. Full Counter does not enable the use of a new type of Bursts.

>

> And why is it a problem if it loses out on burst traits? You can already trait FC to be a stupidly effective skill with just SB traits, why do you need to be able to trait if even further?

 

They nerfed all the Burst traits because of the existence of Full Counter.

> @"Unholy Pillager.3791" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > As I pointed out in my other thread you can completely avoid full counter by hitting it while queuing an evade. FC has a slight lag and startup time so you can actually dodge in between activating it and it will not hit you.

> >

> > TL;DR it's a good skill but it's not nearly as unbeatable as people are making it out as.

>

> You should not be punished when one of your teammtes procs it, and the punishment for proccing it is still too harsh. The Spellbreaker can just hit it in the middle of a channeled skill and get far too much benefit for something that the opponent has zero chance of avoiding, especially given the short cooldown of it.

>

> I get it, it's nice that warriors finally got something that works well in sPvP, putting them in the meta there. I think that part is healthy. The unhealthy part is that it's too easy for stupid teammates and channeled skills to prevent counterplay to it, and that it's possibly too strong against condi builds that don't have massive boon stripping (although if it gets weakened against those, it should be strengthened against condi builds that don't boon strip to compensate).

 

To be fair, Revenge Counter is strong because Scourge is strong. Spellbreaker returns the Condi-bomb that the Scourge applied. Spellbreaker could get away with not running massive amounts of resistance if Scourge did not exist. Featherfoot Grace and Cleanse on Swap is enough to handle all other conditions-builds. Revenge Counter is probably over-tuned. I'm not sure that it needs the 20% increased damage attached to it.

Too be fair, the Gazelle prances up to its target before it attacks. You have ample time to not get hit by it. I know because I watched one prance up to me, I stopped to pet it, then it hit me for 12k.

Axe is 1k more DPS than Scepter. Scepter is a good ranged alternative when you are forced out of melee. Also, Axe rotation is pretty fun once you get the hang of it. Much more fun than Scepter.

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > @choovanski.5462 said:

> > > @"Valik Shin.9027" said:

> > > Why is it whenever warrior is even decent in PvP people want it nerfed into the ground but mesmer can have all the most broken kitten since release and no one complains?

> >

> > ‘warrior is too easy’ is thown around a lot lol.

> >

> > also helseths new mirage build beats spellbreaker 1v1 (actually good spellbreakers, exESL). so like, people are learning how to kill it.

>

> people onm the forums seem like squeeky wheels, while people I have seen ingame have been doing a good job destroying spellbreakers.

 

Yes, I have had recent duels against people who pay attention to Full Counter. They just wait it out, then use their burst damage.

Full > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > People know that it is an 8 seconds cooldown because it is a Burst right? All Bursts have 8 second cooldowns.

>

> One could argue that it shouldn't be a burst skill since its always available regardless of what weapon you are using. Burst skills are dependent on the weapon you are using. And before you try to argue that "it uses adrenalie therefore its a burst", berserk used adrenaline as well, yet no one considered it a burst skill. Berserk was a rage skill, so it makes sense that FC should be a meditation skill tbh.

 

Full Counter not being a Burst skill would make it lose out on Burst traits. Also, Full Counter is the sacrifice for being limited to Level 1 Bursts and 2 Bars of Adrenaline. Berserk is a Rage skill because it enables the use of Primal Bursts. Full Counter does not enable the use of a new type of Bursts.

People know that it is an 8 seconds cooldown because it is a Burst right? All Bursts have 8 second cooldowns.

> @Shafi.8952 said:

> I don't like how all your weapons vanish when you full counter.

>

> They couldn't be bothered to add a defensive stance animation for the weapons.

>

> I guess we are countering with our hands, or spells...?

 

When I full counter with Sunrise, I whirl Sunrise in front of me while I Full Counter.

Spellbreaker only has 2 adrenaline bars... And it's not broken. People just need to get used to playing around it.

> @Ahlen.7591 said:

> It was too severe. Make the leftover 40% rather than 20% and it'd probably be fine.

>

> Also a bad nerf because it hurts solo DPS too, rather than the stronger group DPS provided by ashes.

 

The change was probably done with PvP in mind.

I just tested Scepter vs Axe solo. Axe is doing 1k more DPS than Scepter for me.

If you have ToJ active, the CD is not reset.

> @Garimeth.8725 said:

> > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > People are getting 38k DPS post-fix.

>

> I assume that's with it specced to all the tome traits? I wonder what the dps would be for maximum upkeep of quickfire with a group.

 

That's with Quickfire.

People are getting 38k DPS post-fix.

> @"Sorin Noroku.5342" said:

> > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > All DPS specs should be 35k DPS max, which Anet will balance to eventually.

>

> idk about ALL dps specs being 35k, because then it'll still be imbalanced. Whichever has the easiest rotation, or provides the most for the party would be chosen over others. I believe each class should have things that tip the scale in their favor. Engi has a terrible rotation compared to others (say soulbeast), but it COULD do things that soulbeast cant (like stealth for team). The problem is, the soulbeast is 1.5x more dps, and you don't need stealth in raids. (just an example). Engi should have dps that is comparable to it's dps rotation (which condi engis believe it like playing flight of the bumble bee). Firebrand should be okay for damage if it hits around 38k dps, considering it brings things for raids that make up for it's low break. Such as being backup reflects for Matt, condi cleanse and stability for sloth, etc. However due to that being on such large cooldowns, and no breaks, they should have imo more dps than dragon hunter, who brings fantastic cleave, amazing breaks, but not so much support, sure they can backup reflect too if they drop a utility, but firebrand has that without losing a utility.

>

> Weaver on the other hand, has no utility, and is pure dps. I'm fine with them being higher because of this, I'd expect them to sit around 40-42k. Soulbeast I think with little utility and slighter larger break than firebrand should sit around 38k as well (small nerf to how they are now), because they trade the utility for break but on scale similar to firebrand. Renegade has nice break, small party utility, I think 36k is a good spot for them. Scourge has okay break through fear, and little utility, I think sitting at 38k would be okay for them. See the pattern? I don't think 35k max is the spot, I think 40k should be the spot, but it'd be dependent on difficulty of rotation and how much support they bring to the party. Like chrono brings AMAZING support AND break, but has 14k max dps when pushing it? trade off!

 

40k DPS is pure power creep compared to HOT, in which 35k DPS was pretty much the upper limit, with DPS specs ranging from 30-35k.

All DPS specs should be 35k DPS max, which Anet will balance to eventually.

Firebrand is now 24-25k DPS Solo. Still need to test with 4 additional targets.

I hated using it and was happy when I realized I could switch to my actual weapons.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQJArPWiHMrNwL4RVFA2S1r9Y6NdnC-jRCBQB0UJIAOBAO7BA4QVemm6AeUZn/0D4i9HqmSBSB8oyK-e (Axe and Scepter are interchangeable; Axe is slightly more DPS but the rotation is more difficult to pull off). Just have to wait for Griever's insignias and inscriptions to become available.