Bunker tempest and constant cc.

[Bast.7253]

Yet another thing that needs to be obliterated from this game mode.

 

Can't kill them with condis because they cleanse, constant immob and chill, reflects, shocking aura, lightning combo field, multiple dazes and stuns with focus.

 

So many builds in the current state of this game that make matches entirely miserable to play against and offer very little counterplay.

 

 

[Stallic.2397]

You gotta fight fire with fire. Tempests don't survive well against CC's. Once they use mist form and armor of earth (only 9 sec max), they're pretty much done.

 

They'll try to throw out aoe storms to deter you but it's only a distraction. If they use lightning storm, use range pressure and you won't get cc'd. Lightning aura only stuns if you're in melee range.

 

If they use earth overload, just dodge out of it after 3 sec to avoid immob. Otherwise, it's practically harmless.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> You gotta fight fire with fire. Tempests don't survive well against CC's. Once they use mist form and armor of earth (only 9 sec max), they're pretty much done.

>

> They'll try to throw out aoe storms to deter you but it's only a distraction. If they use lightning storm, use range pressure and you won't get cc'd. Lightning aura only stuns if you're in melee range.

>

> If they use earth overload, just dodge out of it after 3 sec to avoid immob. Otherwise, it's practically harmless.

 

Thanks to Vallun, there are more offensive tempest builds with d/f and even d/wh. They are not that good by their own but vs an uncoordinated team they are extremely disrupting in any teamfight. I really don't want to ask for nerfs but aurashare trait gives huge value with shocking aura and magnetic aura. Maybe it should only share 75% of the duration.

[Icewolfnector.1487]

They are definitely a bit CC heavy and very annoying. I especially love mid fights were 3-4 players just chain cc you for like a minute and you can't even really get any attacks of and just try your best at kiting.

[Bast.7253]

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> You gotta fight fire with fire. Tempests don't survive well against CC's. Once they use mist form and armor of earth (only 9 sec max), they're pretty much done.

>

> They'll try to throw out aoe storms to deter you but it's only a distraction. If they use lightning storm, use range pressure and you won't get cc'd. Lightning aura only stuns if you're in melee range.

>

> If they use earth overload, just dodge out of it after 3 sec to avoid immob. Otherwise, it's practically harmless.

 

There's also the immob shout though. And I've hit from range and still got stunned from shocking aura before? Well, mid-range anyway as you can't cripple them.

 

The other problem is that they're usually not alone. So you can do your best to counter the ele but there's going to be a necro or something else pressuring you. I've found the best plan is just to give up and ignore the point all together. I wouldn't say they're the best bunker, but as far as team fights go they're just incredibly too annoying to make enjoyable gameplay in a match.

[Tayga.3192]

bring back cleric amulet lol (please don't)

[rng.1024]

Easiest fix would be for the Overload recharge to not reset on Fresh Air proc, only the base attunement recharge.

 

With this I mean you use Overload Air, it starts it's 17 sec (traited) cooldown, you swap away do a crit to open air attunement again, you swap back but you still have 15 sec left until you can Overload Air.

 

It's easy to do since Fresh Air is a mechanical and static trait, and would drastically reduce the amount of shocking auras you can get every 20 seconds.

 

Other than that range, counter cc, stab and blinds are your best friends.

 

This would ruin Fresh Air dps in PvE though, so we might be looking at a number split namely cooldown (with clarification in the tooltip)

[hotte in space.2158]

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> Can't kill them with condis because they cleanse

Tempest cant kill you either^^

>they're just incredibly too annoying to make enjoyable gameplay in a match

So in your understanding gameplay is just enjoyable when you can kill all and everyone? We all would like that =)

But imagine you could be killed by every class, how about that?

>and still got stunned from shocking aura

It does 1 sec stun and has a CD of 20 sec, come on dude, is this that serious?

>but as far as team fights go they're just incredibly

Thats the one and only strong role of tempest, and if its team doesnt do enough damage, tempest is lost.

Its supporters destiny to be hostage of its team.

Tempest is good when played well, but in my opinion its far away from overperforming.

[Bast.7253]

> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

> > @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > Can't kill them with condis because they cleanse

> Tempest cant kill you either^^

> >they're just incredibly too annoying to make enjoyable gameplay in a match

> So in your understanding gameplay is just enjoyable when you can kill all and everyone? We all would like that =)

> But imagine you could be killed by every class, how about that?

> >and still got stunned from shocking aura

> It does 1 sec daze and has a CD of 20 sec, come on dude, is this that serious?

> >but as far as team fights go they're just incredibly

> Thats the one and only strong role of tempest, and if its team doesnt do enough damage, tempest is lost.

> Its supporters destiny to be hostage of its team.

> Tempest is good when played well, but in my opinion its far away from overperforming.

 

Weaver is far more fun to fight against and I can't kill the majority of them unless I have perfect timing or am running something that hard counters. It has little to do with whether I can kill them. It's just that make fights extremely unfun. Getting dazed every other second, knocked down, immob's, or stunned when you're trying to focus something that's ACTUALLY doing damage and watching your team get trampled because they can't get any abilities off either makes it pretty crappy.

 

I just think it's unhealthy for the gamemode. The same way core necro having infinite life force and fear spam is. Do you remember when holographic shockwave took up like half a point or more pre-nerf? Well now we have tempest doing the exact same thing and on a much larger and more frequent scale. Sure, they may not be running a damage build, but they don't need to when they've locked everyone down repeatedly.

 

Couple that with the constant condition cleanse and healing and it's pretty cancer.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

> Tempest cant kill you either^^

There are tempest builds with air line which deal a fair amount of damage for the support they can output. They aren't a dps or roamer though so yes they lack damage.

 

> It does 1 sec daze and has a CD of 20 sec, come on dude, is this that serious?

1) It's 1s stun

2) Fresh Air resets overload CD if taken, otherwise you have dagger3 and the trait for overloads.

 

> Thats the one and only strong role of tempest, and if its team doesnt do enough damage, tempest is lost.

I agree with this 100%. Tempest should have a strong utility/support build. Just shocking aura needs a bit change. Maybe aurashare trait could share 75% of the duration. If not, maybe shocking aura can be changed to daze.

[hotte in space.2158]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> There are tempest builds with air line which deal a fair amount of damage for the support they can output.

There are 5-6 viable tempest builds around. The ones with air traitline dont do much condi cleanse !

>It's 1s stun

Thx for correcting me. But I swear I was totally tired =)

>Fresh Air resets overload CD if taken. Just shocking aura needs a bit change. Maybe aurashare trait could share 75% of the duration. If not, maybe shocking aura can be >changed to daze.

Dear community I tell you a secret: the really strong/annoying/successful tempests dont even use air traitline because its too squishy and shocking aura isnt the problem.

 

As a tempest main I propose two nerfs that are fair, reasonable and make sense :

 

1) Glyph of renewal has a pretty low CD. Increase it from 90 sec to 120 sec.

2) Soothing disruption grants regeneration which wasnt really touched by last patch. Decrease its regen-duration for 30%.

 

But do this only, when necro/FB/condi-rev sustain and pet-damage get nerfed too.

[dronte.3416]

Shocking Aura promotes active gameplay and generally fun to play against.

 

Oh wait

[Tayga.3192]

> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

> Dear community I tell you a secret: the really strong/**annoying**/successful tempests dont even use air traitline because its too squishy and shocking aura isnt the problem.

 

I don't care if tempest can heal or give 3-4 types of cheapish boons on short cooldowns, but I care if tempest is a cc beast.

You say it's squishy and it kinda is, but consider how less damage is after the patch.

[Avatar.3568]

> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

> > @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > There are tempest builds with air line which deal a fair amount of damage for the support they can output.

> There are 5-6 viable tempest builds around. The ones with air traitline dont do much condi cleanse !

> >It's 1s stun

> Thx for correcting me. But I swear I was totally tired =)

> >Fresh Air resets overload CD if taken. Just shocking aura needs a bit change. Maybe aurashare trait could share 75% of the duration. If not, maybe shocking aura can be >changed to daze.

> Dear community I tell you a secret: the really strong/annoying/successful tempests dont even use air traitline because its too squishy and shocking aura isnt the problem.

>

> As a tempest main I propose two nerfs that are fair, reasonable and make sense :

>

> 1) Glyph of renewal has a pretty low CD. Increase it from 90 sec to 120 sec.

> 2) Soothing disruption grants regeneration which wasnt really touched by last patch. Decrease its regen-duration for 30%.

>

> But do this only, when necro/FB/condi-rev sustain and pet-damage get nerfed too.

 

I am not playing the pest or ele in general, but a skill on 120 is literally never good

[hotte in space.2158]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> You say it's squishy and it kinda is, but consider how less damage is after the patch.

Yes its viable. I just defended air traitline in terms of objectivity, but honestly I dont care because I dont use it, and when you look at builds of strong

tempests like Faceroll Dos (mAT final march) you see that they dont use it either

>I care if tempest is a cc beast

Warrior is a CC beast and nevertheless I dont demand to nerf it because it wouldnt be fair

[hotte in space.2158]

> @"Avatar.3568" said:

> I am not playing the pest or ele in general, but a skill on 120 is literally never good

Sorry that I didnt defend my own class. But the better for me because I use it sometimes. Its very strong and I just wanted to be objective and honest.

 

[hotte in space.2158]

> @"dronte.3416" said:

> Shocking Aura promotes active gameplay and generally fun to play against.

> Oh wait

There are so many CCs around and they are all fun to play against.

Oh wait

 

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"rng.1024" said:

> Easiest fix would be for the Overload recharge to not reset on Fresh Air proc, only the base attunement recharge.

 

this is best solution. coming from someone who abuses this.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"hotte in space.2158" said:

> Tempest cant kill you either^^

 

This and

 

 

> @"Stallic.2397" said:

> You gotta fight fire with fire. Tempests don't survive well against CC's

> They'll try to throw out aoe storms to deter you but it's only a distraction.

 

This.

 

If they're taking Harmonious Conduit they're more vulnerable to condi bombs.

If they're taking Invigorating Torrents they're vulnerable to cc and each of their overloads except for Earth is interruptible with any form of crowd control that isnt immobilize.

 

They also die immediately in a 2v1, so they aren't even true bunker. Just an annoying off-bunker.

 

I'd leave this alone. "Annoying" doesn't always mean "needs nerf."

 

 

 

[hotte in space.2158]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"hotte in space.2158" said:

> > Tempest cant kill you either^^

>

> This and

>

>

> > @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > You gotta fight fire with fire. Tempests don't survive well against CC's

> > They'll try to throw out aoe storms to deter you but it's only a distraction.

>

> This.

>

> If they're taking Harmonious Conduit they're more vulnerable to condi bombs.

> If they're taking Invigorating Torrents they're vulnerable to cc and each of their overloads except for Earth is interruptible with any form of crowd control that isnt immobilize.

>

> They also die immediately in a 2v1, so they aren't even true bunker. Just an annoying off-bunker.

>

> I'd leave this alone. "Annoying" doesn't always mean "needs nerf."

 

Perfectly explained

 

[rng.1024]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"rng.1024" said:

> > Easiest fix would be for the Overload recharge to not reset on Fresh Air proc, only the base attunement recharge.

>

> this is best solution. coming from someone who abuses this.

 

I must admit I am guilty of this aswell, however I still can't reach the dps of any rev/necro/engi in organized WvW play.

 

Since the issue already is caused by 3 separate traits (Powerful Aura/Fresh Air/Unstable Conduit), a better option would be to rework Unstable Conduit giving it the Evasive Arcana treatment.

 

Basically give the trait an internal cooldown **per attunement** on say 20 seconds, that is affected by Elemental Enchantment of course.

 

This way you get to keep the dps and aura on every other overload, except only the ones procced by fresh air since the internal cooldown won't be up yet.

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"cptaylor.2670" said:

> > @"Stallic.2397" said:

> > You gotta fight fire with fire. Tempests don't survive well against CC's. Once they use mist form and armor of earth (only 9 sec max), they're pretty much done.

> >

> > They'll try to throw out aoe storms to deter you but it's only a distraction. If they use lightning storm, use range pressure and you won't get cc'd. Lightning aura only stuns if you're in melee range.

> >

> > If they use earth overload, just dodge out of it after 3 sec to avoid immob. Otherwise, it's practically harmless.

>

> There's also the immob shout though. And I've hit from range and still got stunned from shocking aura before? Well, mid-range anyway as you can't cripple them.

>

> The other problem is that they're usually not alone. So you can do your best to counter the ele but there's going to be a necro or something else pressuring you. I've found the best plan is just to give up and ignore the point all together. I wouldn't say they're the best bunker, but as far as team fights go they're just incredibly too annoying to make enjoyable gameplay in a match.

 

so your problem is you can't 1v2 them? THAT is your complaint? REALLY?

[Tayga.3192]

@"Azure The Heartless.3261"

Why should tempest be able to kill you while slotting at least 2 defensive traitlines + mender amulet + defensive rune?

 

> They also die immediately in a 2v1, so they aren't even true bunker. Just an annoying off-bunker.

Why should it be able to bunker? It's a support. Tempest was never good against getting hard pressured even with overpowered cleric amulet.

 

Tempest is a very fun to play support espec (unlike firebrand). Currently only thing annoying/too strong is shocking aura. it's a very good peeling skill with aurashare and should stay like that. However it has become like retaliation, a specific counter-effect made boring and strong with high uptime.

[Stallic.2397]

Honestly, as an Ele main, I wouldn't care if Anet just removes fresh air. I never cared for the scepter build and Fresh Air Tempest just sounds unbearable.

 

Replace it with something else. My biggest grime with Air traitline is that it doesn't buff precision. Ele is such a stat dependent class. Air gives you easy access to fury but it should also increase your precision if desired

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261"

> Why should tempest be able to kill you while slotting at least 2 defensive traitlines + mender amulet + defensive rune?

>

> > They also die immediately in a 2v1, so they aren't even true bunker. Just an annoying off-bunker.

> Why should it be able to bunker? It's a support. Tempest was never good against getting hard pressured even with overpowered cleric amulet.

>

> Tempest is a very fun to play support espec (unlike firebrand). Currently only thing annoying/too strong is shocking aura. it's a very good peeling skill with aurashare and should stay like that. However it has become like retaliation, a specific counter-effect made boring and strong with high uptime.

 

why shouldn't they be able to bunker? Are only a selected few classes allowed to bunker?