Inaccessibility of Transcendence vs Accessibility of Conflux

[TPMN.1483]

Why do this have to be about the ability to instantly get the item or as fast as possible?

 

Yes - there will be some individuals who will have it due to their schedule or the ability to play regularly. Both WvW and PvP items require a significant number of hours to get.

 

The ‘upgrade’ to the PvP legendary item via tournaments via wins is approx 30 hrs (1.5 hrs a tournament - with only 1 win every tournament where you play 3-4 games). If you only play daily set a specific time aside one day a week to do this, yes it may take you 20 weeks - but by then you may have your own team who can play your style.

 

The ‘base’ 100 game wins = 200 games x20 mins = 66 hrs of playing conquest only. 2v2= 33hrs (as matches are shorter and shorter ques).

 

WvW has other efforts such as 5 Gift of Battles the reward track: 8 hrs/track= 50 hrs.

 

Both rewards are designed to be a long term goal and not a ‘how quickly can I get it’.

 

Each item has an associated cost of about 1.5K gold - which is really expensive for a bit of stat swapping and some extra pixels on screen.

 

_This is not designed to be a race - it is a long term goal_

[TPMN.1483]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > > > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > > It makes sense that the amulet is harder or takes longer to acquire. It makes absolutely no sense that it is in a game mode where gear has no effect, instead of a game mode where enrichment swapping would be most beneficial.

> > >

> > > By your logic The Ascension shouldn't exist either then.

> > >

> > Well, the Ascension also was not meant for the PvP players, but to draw in the PvE ones. And remember, that the net result was a _drop_ in PvP population, as a lot of drop in/drop out semi-casual pvp frequenters got burned out of the mode, and decided to just stick with PvE for the time on, and a number of PvP players also got tired of seeing all those casual PvE players "polluting" their mode.

>

> And Anet refused to learn from that.

 

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > > > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > > It makes sense that the amulet is harder or takes longer to acquire. It makes absolutely no sense that it is in a game mode where gear has no effect, instead of a game mode where enrichment swapping would be most beneficial.

> > >

> > > By your logic The Ascension shouldn't exist either then.

> > >

> > Well, the Ascension also was not meant for the PvP players, but to draw in the PvE ones. And remember, that the net result was a _drop_ in PvP population, as a lot of drop in/drop out semi-casual pvp frequenters got burned out of the mode, and decided to just stick with PvE for the time on, and a number of PvP players also got tired of seeing all those casual PvE players "polluting" their mode.

>

> And Anet refused to learn from that.

 

Why should it be exclusive that players only play one game mode?

 

It’s healthy that players try other aspects of the game modes and they may learn to improve in each game format.

 

Yes, there will be some players that are exclusive to one game mode - however there are probably more that play more than one game mode.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"TPMN.1483" said:

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > > @"ollbirtan.2915" said:

> > > > > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > > > It makes sense that the amulet is harder or takes longer to acquire. It makes absolutely no sense that it is in a game mode where gear has no effect, instead of a game mode where enrichment swapping would be most beneficial.

> > > >

> > > > By your logic The Ascension shouldn't exist either then.

> > > >

> > > Well, the Ascension also was not meant for the PvP players, but to draw in the PvE ones. And remember, that the net result was a _drop_ in PvP population, as a lot of drop in/drop out semi-casual pvp frequenters got burned out of the mode, and decided to just stick with PvE for the time on, and a number of PvP players also got tired of seeing all those casual PvE players "polluting" their mode.

> >

> > And Anet refused to learn from that.

>

> Why should it be exclusive that players only play one game mode?

>

> It’s healthy that players try other aspects of the game modes and they may learn to improve in each game format.

>

> Yes, there will be some players that are exclusive to one game mode - however there are probably more that play more than one game mode.

Yes, there are players that play more than one player mode, but if you offer cross-mode incentives, you need to be extremely careful - you cannot make them too big, because the draw of the rewards should never be bigger than draw of the content itself. And if you want to draw in new players, you also need to be very careful to make the "bait" obtainable in such a way, that the people guinning after it won't get burned out and/or get a very bad impression of the content. So, you'd want something that takes some time, but not too much of it, and something that can be acquired by only "shallow dipping" in the content.

In that regard both legendaries are a complete failure. They are rewards that appeal the most to PvE crowd, but with the mode of acquisition aimed at PvP **veterans**. That... doesn't work all that well together.

[sixshot.5798]

> @"TPMN.1483" said:

> Why do this have to be about the ability to instantly get the item or as fast as possible?

>

> Yes - there will be some individuals who will have it due to their schedule or the ability to play regularly. Both WvW and PvP items require a significant number of hours to get.

>

> The ‘upgrade’ to the PvP legendary item via tournaments via wins is approx 30 hrs (1.5 hrs a tournament - with only 1 win every tournament where you play 3-4 games). If you only play daily set a specific time aside one day a week to do this, yes it may take you 20 weeks - but by then you may have your own team who can play your style.

>

> The ‘base’ 100 game wins = 200 games x20 mins = 66 hrs of playing conquest only. 2v2= 33hrs (as matches are shorter and shorter ques).

>

> WvW has other efforts such as 5 Gift of Battles the reward track: 8 hrs/track= 50 hrs.

>

> Both rewards are designed to be a long term goal and not a ‘how quickly can I get it’.

>

> Each item has an associated cost of about 1.5K gold - which is really expensive for a bit of stat swapping and some extra pixels on screen.

>

> _This is not designed to be a race - it is a long term goal_

 

The argument I'm making here, along with others who pointed it out since the start, is the gap in time investment between the two is too large. Meaning, the supposed long term effort or time investment going into either of the two are not similar in any way.

 

Obtaining Slumb Conflux was fairly effortless and could take me anywhere between 1.5-3 months time, Slumb Trans on the other hand requires 120 wins during seasons (thus limiting progress access). My previous post already stated my personal progress on that. I'm not anxious to get it as fast as possible. I would like to, like everyone else. But given the speed I was able to acquire Slumb Conflux, it left a very bad impression on how easily and quickly I can get it. That's the main issue I have with getting (Slumb) Trans.

 

Nobody will disagree that both will require large time investment. What I'd like to see is a change in how long/much it takes to get either of them -- either by modifying the win requirement for (Slumb) Trans or the capture/kill requirement for (Slumb) Conflux.

[Crozame.4098]

> @"Adzekul.3104" said:

> > @"Grave.9258" said:

> > PvP achievement is not locked behind **ONE** season. It says "During season" and not, ~~"during one season"~~. It only means you do not receive achievement progress while between seasons. Achiev **DO NOT** resets after the season ends.

>

> Not looking to argue, and frankly I would be very happy if you are right (and I am wrong), but the wiki and the item in game clearly say "Win 120 ranked matches during a PvP season. " If this is all my misunderstanding and Anet wording things badly, then I can only say these kind of errors create unnecessary problems / misunderstandings like this.

>

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > Here's some Dev posts: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1193416/#Comment_1193416

>

> Unfortunately this does not enlighten me. Ben explains that tournament wins are only required for the T2. I am primarily interested in the T1, for whatever that may be worth.

>

> > @"Shadowmoon.7986" said:

> > The ascended back piece took 150 season wins to complete back in the day, but it never felt that bad because of the bread trail the 4 tiers of year of ascension left for the player base.

> > Unfortunately transcendence does not have a bread trail for people to follow, just huge cliff of 120 wins. I think the biggest mistake for anet was not releasing the 120 win achievements at the start of the competitive patch during the much shorter 2v2 mini season. Even if they could not be used to make the legendaries at the time, the 120 win would not feel so daunting. Conquest matches take much longer than 2v2.

> > My advice, get your 25 wins and 60 participation chievos for season 21, then wait for may 24th when the 2v2 season starts again. That way you only need 95 wins from the much shorter 2v2 matches.

>

> I am liking the back item collection so far (Collection 1 of 4) to be honest. Maybe the higher participation / win rate in later collections is an issue, maybe not. Difficult to say now.

>

> Thanks for your advice. If I am wrong on the time limit (a single season) then I will indeed be doing as you suggest. Although it might take me into the next full season to finish it off. We'll see.

 

Just curious, have you figured out the 120 win requirement? You obviously do not need to win 120 games in ONE season, the wins carry over to the next season... Next time do better research, or simply ask the question instead of being so sure of a false information.

[Adzekul.3104]

So I wanted to follow-up after completing the Emblem of Victory. It took me (exactly) 11 weeks and 228 ranked games to get 120 ranked wins. This is from the perspective of a person who did not do PvP in this game before I started this journey. Looking back it certainly feels like an achievement and a legendary achievement at that, so clearly I am pleased. I did this all in Silver 2 / Silver 3, for whatever that may be worth. Now that it is done, I can say I am thankful that it could be done over several seasons, and the wording of the tooltip was indeed misleading.

 

But thinking back to how I finished Slumbering Conflux in 3 or 4 days, versus the 77 days for Slumbering Transcendence, part of my original post still holds true in that there is a big disparity in the accessibility of these 2 legendaries. For some additional perspective (not bragging, honest!) I have 117 Emblems of the Avenger and 13 Emblems of the Conqueror sitting in my bank. I know people with double these numbers, so I get the impression there may have been different design goals in each of these legendaries:

For me, Conflux felt more like a reward for sticking to an under-appreciated / under-supported game mode, and less like a legendary. While Transcendence feels like a legendary journey & accomplishment.

 

I doubt any of the devs would ever confirm or deny this view, but this is how it feels from my perspective.

[Voltekka.2375]

> @"TPMN.1483" said:

> Why do this have to be about the ability to instantly get the item or as fast as possible?

>

> Yes - there will be some individuals who will have it due to their schedule or the ability to play regularly. Both WvW and PvP items require a significant number of hours to get.

>

> The ‘upgrade’ to the PvP legendary item via tournaments via wins is approx 30 hrs (1.5 hrs a tournament - with only 1 win every tournament where you play 3-4 games). If you only play daily set a specific time aside one day a week to do this, yes it may take you 20 weeks - but by then you may have your own team who can play your style.

>

> The ‘base’ 100 game wins = 200 games x20 mins = 66 hrs of playing conquest only. 2v2= 33hrs (as matches are shorter and shorter ques).

>

> WvW has other efforts such as 5 Gift of Battles the reward track: 8 hrs/track= 50 hrs.

>

> Both rewards are designed to be a long term goal and not a ‘how quickly can I get it’.

>

> Each item has an associated cost of about 1.5K gold - which is really expensive for a bit of stat swapping and some extra pixels on screen.

>

> _This is not designed to be a race - it is a long term goal_

 

5 GoB are 20 hours on full boosters. Plus you can choose GoB track while farming for pips, it's not like there's an extra time commitment involved. Wvw conflux requirements compared to Pvp amulet are an absolute joke.

[maikel.2056]

Just bumping this thread up.

 

After the recent patch where the rank requirement for (sublime) Mistforged Triumphant armor set in WvW was dropped from 2000 to 500, I really feel the WvW legendary items are much easier to obtain than the PvP counterparts. And in my opinion, it should be pretty much equal in terms of 'skill' and 'time' required to obtain those items.

 

In another thread (in the WvW section) people discussed the level requirement for the Mistforged Glorius armor set to be dropped to 40. But aside from that, I would also really like to see an easier way to acquire Slumbering Transcendence. This can be either a reduction in the amount of ranked wins (120 -> 50 or something) or, count both unranked and ranked arena matches (just don't allow the custom arena's, that'll be too easy to grind).

Or.. make it 'harder' or 'more time consuming' to acquire the WvW legendary items.

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"maikel.2056" said:

> Just bumping this thread up.

>

> After the recent patch where the rank requirement for (sublime) Mistforged Triumphant armor set in WvW was dropped from 2000 to 500, I really feel the WvW legendary items are much easier to obtain than the PvP counterparts. And in my opinion, it should be pretty much equal in terms of 'skill' and 'time' required to obtain those items.

 

That change had no impact on the accessibility of the wvw legendary armor since it was already possible to make it using the t2 as well. That was just a misleading patch note.

 

[Bast.7253]

The 20 AT wins for the non-slumbering version seems the most inaccessible to me. I know it's "just" 20 wins, but given how small the player pool is you're often going up against some elite team that's well above your skill level or the random pug you decided to join.

 

Is there a way to game the system during placements to ensure that you get placed SO low that you're guaranteed a good streak of wins? lol I'd have to imagine with 2v2's right now it has to be easier because it just boils down to finding whatever is the most mechanically broken or easily counters whatever you're up against.

[ollbirtan.2915]

> @"Bast.7253" said:

> The 20 AT wins for the non-slumbering version seems the most inaccessible to me. I know it's "just" 20 wins, but given how small the player pool is you're often going up against some elite team that's well above your skill level or the random pug you decided to join.

>

> Is there a way to game the system during placements to ensure that you get placed SO low that you're guaranteed a good streak of wins? lol I'd have to imagine with 2v2's right now it has to be easier because it just boils down to finding whatever is the most mechanically broken or easily counters whatever you're up against.

 

If you want the shiny. your best bet is to get yourself a buddy or 2 for ATs. Practice in ranked, improve, and NEVER join the 'ALL WELCOME' groups because the latter is a guaranteed waste of 1 hour of your life with zero wins.

[AsuraStriker.7893]

From when I did the 20 AT wins, every round you lose your team gets paired with another team that also lost. In theory if you can squeeze one win per AT as long as your team is better then the worst team in the tournament. It sucks but you got to do what you got to do. Who knows if you practice enough you may get more.