The love-hate relationship with SAB: Praise and Pain Points

[Luthan.5236]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> I want the next zones to be more difficult too. Anet again, should simply stop listening too much. Because forums doesn't represent the thought of the whole playerbase, it isn't the case for Twitter too. SAB could have been finished right now. So just, stop it, don't make them put SAB in stasis 6 more years AGAIN.

 

It is true: A lot of players don't even login in the forums. People playing the game ... are a lot more than the ones active in the forums. But the same could be said about you wanting same or increased difficulty. You could consider the people using the forums a sample of the whole playerbase. ArenaNet might have some in-depth stats on how many people are playing the SAB. (And how many actually are finishing all the hardcore achievement sin tribulation mode - including getting the skins that require to run tribulation multiple times.)

 

From what I have seen/heard they reduced the amount of JPs in other parts of the game though. (Which might indicate that less people want too much hardore jumping.) I'm still catching up on the older stuffin release order and I just finished Living World Season 3 where new and hard JPs got made. From what I have heard in the later maps (PoF, LS4) they did not make much more hard JPs (or JPs at all) - or is that wrong?

[hugo.4705]

I agree, that why in main thread I asked them to use their tools like "holokrewe news" to mesure what the playerbase wants, through a poll IN-GAME. See, we may be some wanting it harder, some other wants easier. But they should simply follow the essence of SAB, infantile is easy, normal normal and tribulation hard.When saying shouldn't listen to forum, I am included, edited the answer.

 

W2 zones in normal feels like tribulation, seriously what!?

 

If you want to have all storm wizard weapons, it's 17h of w2, would you do 32 mins x16 of w2-2?

 

About how many players like jumping puzzles, well who know apart them? I defenitely think the issue is that players don't want anything locked behind jumping puzzle, but it's impossible in SAB, but their wish is respected in pve.

 

I know someone who is currently in the mindset "w3 or me no playing", because once you saw the same trib level for 6 year, easy to be fed up, especially if you grinded weapons. Also what determination required to finish those achievs? W2-2 is 2x longer than W2-1, but hey, you don't receive more rewards. Since majority of w2 is two time longer of w1, why no double of rewards? See tribulation, I "waste" (well in fact i enjoy) that 1h long w2, but I receive garbage as reward, not even crimson token.. or a guaranted weapon box...

 

Just want something more difficult than tribulation, like what a player said in quality of like sticky thread recently. But not as obligation.

[Robban.1256]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> I agree, that why in main thread I asked them to use their tools like "holokrewe news" to mesure what the playerbase wants, through a poll IN-GAME. See, we may be some wanting it harder, some other wants easier. But they should simply follow the essence of SAB, infantile is easy, normal normal and tribulation hard.When saying shouldn't listen to forum, I am included, edited the answer.

>

> W2 zones in normal feels like tribulation, seriously what!?

>

> If you want to have all storm wizard weapons, it's 17h of w2, would you do 32 mins x16 of w2-2?

>

> About how many players like jumping puzzles, well who know apart them? I defenitely think the issue is that players don't want anything locked behind jumping puzzle, but it's impossible in SAB, but their wish is respected in pve.

>

> I know someone who is currently in the mindset "w3 or me no playing", because once you saw the same trib level for 6 year, easy to be fed up, especially if you grinded weapons. Also what determination required to finish those achievs? W2-2 is 2x longer than W2-1, but hey, you don't receive more rewards. Since majority of w2 is two time longer of w1, why no double of rewards? See tribulation, I "waste" (well in fact i enjoy) that 1h long w2, but I receive garbage as reward, not even crimson token.. or a guaranted weapon box...

>

> Just want something more difficult than tribulation, like what a player said in quality of like sticky thread recently. But not as obligation.

 

Agree, dont make old content easier just cus some want. Apart from that im really intrested what they might come up with world 3.

[Kelvei.8042]

I want to quickly steer this back on track by clarifying that my own feedback is not aimed at nerfing Tribulation mode, but instead improving the pacing and rewards of the 2-2 and 2-3 levels. Regardless of the fact that I've completed all the tribulation collections and every achievement outside of the super rare drops (that being a separate subject of discussion), none of this is about making them *easier,* but **making them more accessible** to people who wouldn't normally participate in the festival or don't have several hours to invest in a run-through of a single world.

[Luthan.5236]

Yeah. That is a main problem for me. I have lots of free time at the moment. But I'd like to do other stuff as well. Other stuff besides GW2. (Watching anime or playing other games. and I want to play GW1 as well which I never finished and still need to finish for the lore/story.)

 

The festivals "force" yourself to play the stuff during the festival since otherwise you'd have to wait 1 year to play it again. (+ Here we already have the Crimson Assassins tokens where it takes very long to get enough for the full set. Easy but takes long.)

 

Doing the SAB in tribulation - considering it takes long to learn it to get good and fast - might take long for most players. I'm doing my other daily stuff atm (including daily hearts in Draconis Mons because I want to finish the Druid Stone collection there which I'm finishing today) and I explained my tribulation strategy in another thread:

 

Trying to learn 1 zone every few days but completing all the learned zones. I started a few days ago learning W1-Z1. Now I'm up to W1-Z3 and can do the whole W1. I can do it in a pretty short amount of time. (Still a bit slower than the pros that do it lots of times each day.)

 

Doing 2 runs of W1 each day is already pretty exhausting for me. Imagine the "average player" (having to work and not much free time and wanting to do other daily stuff each day) ...

 

---

 

I don't get why they did not make the SAB permanently (every now and then the suggestion pops up) available. At least for the tribulation skins. With the weekly vendor all other rewards (even normal baubles on collecting in the SAB world) could be disabled and only continue coins and the tribulation zone tokens (for skins) could be available.

 

So you could do some runs "every now and then". (Doing it repeatedly in a short time is getting boring.)

[Healix.5819]

> @"Kelvei.8042" said:

> **HEALTH IS NOT REFILLED AFTER DYING TO A FALL**

> While my Infinite Continue Coin doesn’t mind this much, it is frustrating to return to the spawn gate only to have your last heart immediately aced by a ninja. I imagine this issue also impacts players who do not have the advantage of an Infinite Coin, as it results in a frustrating death that couldn’t be avoided.

 

Your health _is_ refilled if you die to falling. Falling out of bounds doesn't kill you, it simply takes away 1 heart of your health and teleports you to the last checkpoint. If you only had 1 heart left when you fell, then it kills you.

 

Use /gg if you want to forcibly respawn with full health.

[Loboling.5293]

I agree with everything said, except the potion change. The stunbreak aspect is not something I'd like to give up. Then again, I've never done trib. So I'm not sure how that would work out.

[Kulvar.1239]

And then there's me, stuck in world 1 zone 1 because I get bumped into the abyss by jumping rocks in the middle of a jump :(

[hugo.4705]

Just finished to cartography world 2 and seriously, look at that w2-2 it's gigantic, you can fit three w2-1 in it... I never thought It would be that big.

Plus well, 2-1 it's ok, but 2-2 and 2-3.... what a maze-ish map. They feel like, final world...

 


 

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> And then there's me, stuck in world 1 zone 1 because I get bumped into the abyss by jumping rocks in the middle of a jump :(

 

That sounds like you're playing tribulation. Normal is talking to the npc in the middle, when you enter the house.

 

tribulation is a nightmare.

[Blueberry.8095]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > And then there's me, stuck in world 1 zone 1 because I get bumped into the abyss by jumping rocks in the middle of a jump :(

>

> That sounds like you're playing tribulation. Normal is talking to the npc in the middle, when you enter the house.

>

> tribulation is a nightmare.

Yeah.... Each trib run I lost like 50 to 70 lives to each jumping rock every single time. Oof...... I saw people using dodge jump, even a friend tried to teach me that, still didn't make sense and never will. Due to the high ping, most of the time my toon lands on the lava level instead of the rock, like the rock already jumped & in the air before my toon actually reached the rock's location, making it hard for me to do another jump immediately due to being "stucked" inside the invisible rock. I know I wasn't stepping on the lava because it didn't kill me, what kills me was the 2nd jump right after on the same spot, thus I knew i was inside the rock & would hit the rock's "ceiling" if I try to jump again. The second rock that up the tree, was another 50-70 lives trial and error again....I really dislike things that required dodge-jump. In those cases I had to keep trying and dying too many times until I succeed, wasn't fun at all.

 

I really support the idea of splitting world 2: z2 & z3 into 2a/2b/2c/3a/3b/3c for example, so that I can progress slowly without the fear of loosing the entire day of effort due to d/c, or for players who is willing to learn and do tribulation mode but can't invest in few hours at once on w2 (like new joiner who cannot run it efficiently yet).

 

I haven't experience the trampoline and the slippery in w2 trib yet, so can't comment on that, but I can imagine the pain....... Don't think I will try it because I hate slippery surface and that could make me insane for even trying.....

[Kulvar.1239]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > And then there's me, stuck in world 1 zone 1 because I get bumped into the abyss by jumping rocks in the middle of a jump :(

>

> That sounds like you're playing tribulation. Normal is talking to the npc in the middle, when you enter the house.

>

> tribulation is a nightmare.

 

Yes, I do play tribulations (with intent). But I can't understand how to handle the jumping rocks. I jump away from a platform, but I still get knockback by the jumping rock and fall to my demise. I watched youtube videos and people seem safe after they jumped out of the platform, but it doesn't work when I do it.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > And then there's me, stuck in world 1 zone 1 because I get bumped into the abyss by jumping rocks in the middle of a jump :(

> >

> > That sounds like you're playing tribulation. Normal is talking to the npc in the middle, when you enter the house.

> >

> > tribulation is a nightmare.

>

> Yes, I do play tribulations (with intent). But I can't understand how to handle the jumping rocks. I jump away from a platform, but I still get knockback by the jumping rock and fall to my demise. I watched youtube videos and people seem safe after they jumped out of the platform, but it doesn't work when I do it.

 

practice make perfect

[Wisty.4135]

That's the big issue I have with W2 - I enjoy longer, more content filled levels, but zones 2-3 were filled with what felt like time wasting. Push blocks, feed squid, feed another squid. More blocks! Time for a mini boss! Wait, jk, more health than the actual boss! Hey kids, wanna fight a yeti? How about more pushing blocks for a teleporter maze?

 

 

All of it busy work and janky mechanics versus actual platforming challenge. Not challenging hard, just bothersome hard.

[Taygus.4571]

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > And then there's me, stuck in world 1 zone 1 because I get bumped into the abyss by jumping rocks in the middle of a jump :(

> >

> > That sounds like you're playing tribulation. Normal is talking to the npc in the middle, when you enter the house.

> >

> > tribulation is a nightmare.

>

> Yes, I do play tribulations (with intent). But I can't understand how to handle the jumping rocks. I jump away from a platform, but I still get knockback by the jumping rock and fall to my demise. I watched youtube videos and people seem safe after they jumped out of the platform, but it doesn't work when I do it.

 

whats your ping? those rocks are almost impossible with high ping, as even if you get past them, game still thinks you're there and knocks you.

 

I have high ping and so I don't bother with trib.

[Friday.7864]

It's just too much of a waste of time if you want to do the festival properly and complete everything ._.

Too much annoying, time consuming stuff to do within the few weeks this is on. Saps the fun right outta it.

If you get home from work at 5, rest/shower/eat/whatevs and have nothing else to do you have just enough time to dedicate **ALL OF IT** to SAB

( ╯°□°)╯ ┻━━┻

 

PS: I can actually play more due to COVID-19 and I will probably be able to do all the achieves but ugh, I'm sick and tired of the tribu runs already

[Friday.7864]

> @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > And then there's me, stuck in world 1 zone 1 because I get bumped into the abyss by jumping rocks in the middle of a jump :(

> >

> > That sounds like you're playing tribulation. Normal is talking to the npc in the middle, when you enter the house.

> >

> > tribulation is a nightmare.

>

> Yes, I do play tribulations (with intent). But I can't understand how to handle the jumping rocks. I jump away from a platform, but I still get knockback by the jumping rock and fall to my demise. I watched youtube videos and people seem safe after they jumped out of the platform, but it doesn't work when I do it.

 

Dodge jump away from it? Assign dodge jump to a macro key if you can't press both Jump&dodge at the same time reliably. Even that will fail you often enough tho.

Can also dodge into the rock first and then jump onto it. Just depends where you are tbh.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I’ve seen some people comment about having to dodge jump. This actually is only required in one specific place at the end of W2Z3 when doing TM. Nowhere else in SAB on any mode is this required.

[Friday.7864]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> I’ve seen some people comment about having to dodge jump. This actually is only required in one specific place at the end of W2Z3 when doing TM. Nowhere else in SAB on any mode is this required.

 

Yes, but considering all the perversions being thrown at you it can make life a lot easier.

[Ayrilana.1396]

> @"Friday.7864" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > I’ve seen some people comment about having to dodge jump. This actually is only required in one specific place at the end of W2Z3 when doing TM. Nowhere else in SAB on any mode is this required.

>

> Yes, but considering all the perversions being thrown at you it can make life a lot easier.

 

**If** you can consistently pull it off but many cannot.

[Friday.7864]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Friday.7864" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > I’ve seen some people comment about having to dodge jump. This actually is only required in one specific place at the end of W2Z3 when doing TM. Nowhere else in SAB on any mode is this required.

> >

> > Yes, but considering all the perversions being thrown at you it can make life a lot easier.

>

> **If** you can consistently pull it off but many cannot.

 

One word: Macro

You can use it for simple stuff like pressing two buttons at the same time.

[hugo.4705]


**Would have preferred that size for each zone. But it's a real dilemma currently. Either:**

-They cut each w2 zones into sub zones, making new zones. Issue: Would it fill W3? I definitely don't want W3 to be W2 bis.

-Like my maps, they simply remove parts of those zones to make them have W1 zones duration. Issue: It would be unfair, for those who already completed full map trib?

-They add save-points like story journal. Issue: Some may ask, would a person doing it in multiple times a zone earn as same as one completing in one run?

-They highly increase rewards, since w2 is longer than w1, 2x more rewards; 8 baubles bubbles per zone in trib w2. Issue: Increase the reward difference with normal? Will players still feel unrewarded and forced to do tribulation?

-They fix trampolines, restore the ancient piranha system where it stays infinitely in your hands, they fix mushrooms and improves hitboxes. Issue: Require time?

-They add an Npc at the start of the zone, to decide if you want to do the long version or the short version. Issue: Half reward if you do short version?

 

Applying anything above may report release of w3; they can't simply reinvent/redo each w2 zones without mobilizing devs and so less time spent on w3. They could, as example, allow player to pass through the cloud easy path in w2-2 and allow them to take happy face portal in w2-3. But again, it bring the question about what peoples who already finished Tribulation undergone and what will the new one will undergo. If there is difference, it might bring conflict. Those zones already been updated, with smile hand easy paths added; is a greater fix is required? The thing they can do is taking in account the length for future worlds.

 

[Kulvar.1239]

> @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > @"Taygus.4571" said:

> > > > @"Kulvar.1239" said:

> > > > And then there's me, stuck in world 1 zone 1 because I get bumped into the abyss by jumping rocks in the middle of a jump :(

> > >

> > > That sounds like you're playing tribulation. Normal is talking to the npc in the middle, when you enter the house.

> > >

> > > tribulation is a nightmare.

> >

> > Yes, I do play tribulations (with intent). But I can't understand how to handle the jumping rocks. I jump away from a platform, but I still get knockback by the jumping rock and fall to my demise. I watched youtube videos and people seem safe after they jumped out of the platform, but it doesn't work when I do it.

>

> whats your ping? those rocks are almost impossible with high ping, as even if you get past them, game still thinks you're there and knocks you.

>

> I have high ping and so I don't bother with trib.

 

I have a 30-50ms ping.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I find it unlikely that they’ll redo world 2. What will likely happen is that if they were to do future worlds, they’ll take the length criticism into account.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"hugo.4705" said:

> I want the next zones to be more difficult too. Anet again, should simply stop listening too much. (Me included) Because forums doesn't represent the thought of the whole playerbase, it isn't the case for Twitter too. SAB could have been finished right now. So just, stop it, don't make them put SAB in stasis 6 more years AGAIN.

You do realize, that w2 being much longer and more annoying than w1 _was_ one of the reasons why SAB got put in the freezer for so long back then?

 

I mean, even the original SAB designer admits that w2 was overdone, and that he made a mistake here.

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > @"Friday.7864" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > I’ve seen some people comment about having to dodge jump. This actually is only required in one specific place at the end of W2Z3 when doing TM. Nowhere else in SAB on any mode is this required.

> >

> > Yes, but considering all the perversions being thrown at you it can make life a lot easier.

>

> **If** you can consistently pull it off but many cannot.

 

It's actually easier (not easy, just easier) to pull off dodge jumps than some of the theoretically normal jumps that require perfect precision in order to reach. At least dodge jump lets you have some leeway there.

 

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> I find it unlikely that they’ll redo world 2. What will likely happen is that if they were to do future worlds, they’ll take the length criticism into account.

That's unfortunately probably true. The amount of resources needed to do a good rework is likely too big compared to what they might be willing to spend on it. The best we might count on is some slight tweaks, but even those are not very likely.