Sometimes I feel LW chapter bosses aren't designed for solo play

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

 

> It's not like you can speedrun the 90%+ unskippable meaningless exposition about how great the threat is that you are going to delete instantly, and the few combat encounters are instantly melting without trying anyway. No hit runs are essentially the norm, not like it at all matters if anything hit's you.

> The only story moments I remember is for how laughable/disappointing they were, like the ambush by the 3 Charrs in the Grothmar Story in the Blood Keep, "Finally combat!" I thought after RP walking around for minutes, the HUD even showed an achievement for managing to kill them in under 30 Seconds!

> Well, they evaporated in < 3 seconds by pressing 2 buttons... (on a purposefully tuned down Story Build)

> Now I wasn't expecting a grand combat encounter there, but come on.. give me anything. Let me actually play the game beyond pressing F on things and RP walking.

 

oh really, 'tuned down'. Well, congratz on being awesome and running some broken stuff. But most people don't.

 

That simple.

 

10% of players do 90% of the damage. Keep that in mind. If you are in the 10% be happy, but stop trying to ruin it for the other 90.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > > > > @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > > That is an issue that should be dealt by overly strong players taking of their gear or simply holding back, not by artificially inflating things and making it harder for anyone.

> > > > >

> > > > > You do understand that Season 3 requires Heart of Thorns and Season 4 Path of Fire right? I'm not sure why a fight in either season's content should be considerably easier than any of the fights in the expansions themselves.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Fueki.4753" said:

> > > > > > Why should the average players (who are the vast majority of the player base) be forced to get better

> > > > >

> > > > > Are you saying that the vast majority of players didn't finish the expansion content? This would certainly cause concern but I doubt that's the case.

> > > >

> > > > perhaps thats why they didnt want to make more expansions at all? they only made the announcement after the forums lit up...

> > > > i barely finshed the core game on a couple of toons. never got close to that in the expansions

> > >

> > > You mean they don't want to make expansions because players haven't finished the current ones? That's a rather far stretch considering they released a second expansion. And besides, the content of the seasons wasn't/isn't "core game level" either, and some bosses are over-tuned (see OP) you'd think if the core was the best challenge level they'd release content similar to that and not release expansion/seasons for 5 years that hurt their game. After all they do have data and use analytics that would tell them if the players had such difficulties with the expansions.

> >

> > and if it worked as planned, you can bet , that they wouldnt had put them on ice. a business wont make any changes, if their products are doing well.

> > the second expansion was ½ price and easier too.

> > i guess it was the same analytics, that gave the okay to the "no expansion" approach

>

> By your own logic if the core game was doing so well, they wouldn't make changes to it with the expansions. How do you explain the drastic changes in the expansions then? You've expressed your dissatisfaction over the direction of the game in many threads, praising the "core game" and disliking everything that came after it. It's been almost 8 years. I'm sure following a certain path over a course of 8 years is based on some form of data and not as a way to spite players like you that enjoyed only the core experience.

>

> Some food for thought now and more on the actual topic: the bosses in the Core game are also damage sponges, especially if you go after them at the appropriate level, with appropriate gear. If you finished the core game so many times you must remember the battle of claw island or the forging the pact mission where you fought some bosses with greatly inflated health pools (and no mechanics whatsoever) making them a very tedious experience. And they aren't the only ones, since the personal story lacks any meaningful mechanics in its fights, big health pools were the only way to make fights last longer. Even the 5 starter bosses have inflated health pools and are a challenge for the player to stay awake while fighting them. Yes, they are tutorial bosses they shouldn't be "hard", obviously, but they take a great time to kill, by doing almost nothing, all while hearing the npcs talking about them as if it's the end of the world.

>

> tl;dr Damage sponges have always been a part of this game, usually there to pad the encounter time. Boring and tedious are the words best describing that part of the game. I guess Arenanet can go from one extreme to another extreme very easily. They upped the mechanical challenge of later encounters, but forgot to solve that glaring issue with the core experience.

 

the core game has some serious issues as well, specifically the 3 last zones and zhaitan fight. and the nerfs there supports my theory

the buildup to zhaitan is way too long, and if he was only ½ as powerful as they claim him to be, then the fight should already be over

several story missions in the levelling process have HUGE difficulty spikes too, they stick out like sore thumb

claw island wasnt the worst, gathering the pact is MUCH worse...long, tedious, and super buggy.

i have suffered though it many times, only to have it bug out in the end.

and i usually went 10 lvls above story missions, before i even tried them

 

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"battledrone.8315" said:

> the core game has some serious issues as well, specifically the 3 last zones and zhaitan fight.

 

Of course how could I forget that you didn't like the "3 last zones" either.

 

> and the nerfs there supports my theory

 

And the rest of the game's updates (for the last 8 years btw) do not.

 

> claw island wasnt the worst, gathering the pact is MUCH worse...long, tedious, and super buggy.

 

I know. Forging the Pact is probably the worst instance in the entire game. Especially the last boss which is a gigantic damage sponge.

[Asum.4960]

> @"arooboo.5143" said:

> It's been such a long time since I've done most of the early story quests so I can't really speak for those, but I can tell you that HoT and PoF thoroughly kicked my bum repeatedly as I worked my way through it. I really wanted to get into the story as it seems really quite deep and involved, but it's to the point where I kind of dread having to continue the story quests. As someone else had mentioned earlier, a challenge doesn't always equate to fun for everyone. I would be thrilled if they could add in a couple of difficulty options for the story mode so those who may struggle a bit more (like myself) can still get through it and enjoy themselves while those who need more of a challenge can choose that as well.

>

> With all that said, I would really looove to be better at the game. There is so much I don't understand about the combat, and as a mostly solo player, I've never really had anyone I could bounce all my stupid questions off of. I've read plenty of guides, checked out threads asking how to improve, followed gear guides, etc, but I'm still rather poo. lol. So for now, I'll keep crawling through the Story quests and just hope one day things will finally click for me and I can experience the joy of having mobs and bosses melt before my eyes.

 

I really appreciate your comment here because while you struggle with the content, you recognise that there is room for improvement on your part and that you do not yet understand certain mechanical aspects of combat, rather than just immediately (and aggressively) wanting the content nerfed down to your current level of skill so you never have to learn the game mechanics (which would then forever move that goalpost further, meaning the game can never get more complex and engaging as players are never getting prepared for that).

 

And you are not at all at fault here, the core Story experience just ramped up way too slowly or especially inconsistently in mechanical complexity (aka difficulty), not properly teaching players the fundamentals, which then left many unprepared for expansion (and especially hardcore) content - especially with HoT, which then had to be nerfed, moving that goalpost further while still not entirely addressing the issue of people struggling regardless.

 

You would really like to be better at the game, but the game's design doesn't really facilitate players naturally improving much, as content for those who never managed to learn all the mechanics on their own either has to plateau at the lowest denominator eternally, or presents as seemingly impassable wall.

It's a highly skill based game (in which you can't skip personal improvement and understanding of the game with external factors like ever better gear as bandaid), which doesn't facility natural player skill progression by slowly ramping up the mechanical complexity in a consistent manner as to allow people to learn it naturally by repetition, aka without being consciously aware of difficulty increases and not getting frustrated.

 

That said, feel free to bounce some stupid questions off me, be it in PM's or ingame. The game is not in a state where it will answer them for you.

 

 

> @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

>

> > It's not like you can speedrun the 90%+ unskippable meaningless exposition about how great the threat is that you are going to delete instantly, and the few combat encounters are instantly melting without trying anyway. No hit runs are essentially the norm, not like it at all matters if anything hit's you.

> > The only story moments I remember is for how laughable/disappointing they were, like the ambush by the 3 Charrs in the Grothmar Story in the Blood Keep, "Finally combat!" I thought after RP walking around for minutes, the HUD even showed an achievement for managing to kill them in under 30 Seconds!

> > Well, they evaporated in < 3 seconds by pressing 2 buttons... (on a purposefully tuned down Story Build)

> > Now I wasn't expecting a grand combat encounter there, but come on.. give me anything. Let me actually play the game beyond pressing F on things and RP walking.

>

> oh really, 'tuned down'. Well, congratz on being awesome and running some broken stuff. But most people don't.

>

> That simple.

>

> 10% of players do 90% of the damage. Keep that in mind. If you are in the 10% be happy, but stop trying to ruin it for the other 90.

 

Why should I be happy about that? Being a proficient player in this game sucks most of the time, as it ruins the majority of the content and turning it into a snoozefest. That's not bragging, that's just trying to exemplify the issues more proficient players face.

I'm not out to get you or to ruin your experience, I just want to have a good one too, and I happen to believe that your experience would be improved as well if the game would do a better job at teaching people it's mechanics.

 

If the only thing the game rewards you with for getting better at it is boredom in the vast majority of content released then that's an issue and not something to be celebrated or be happy about if you fall into that category.

 

I know this us versus them mentality is pretty rampant in this community and it's easy to farm recognition in the mostly casual permeated forums with that combative stance and just picking out pieces of an argument and shutting it down without tackling the greater context of it, but this community split is exactly the issue of the game, and it is rooted in it's design.

 

If the game did a better job at naturally ramping up the mechanical complexity and teaching players the game mechanics instead of either plateauing at the lowest denominator or presenting as frustrating wall of difficulty, that wouldn't ruin the game for players like you, quite the opposite.

[battledrone.8315]

im not saying, that hardcore content shouldnt exist, i am saying, that it is a bad idea to put it in the story and expect the normal player to adapt

as it is now, the difference between the core game and the expansions are truly mindblowing, they almost feel like different games

and the elite specs was prolly the worst decision ever, they INTENTIONALLY make max level newbies.

 

[Tumult.2578]

My personal story ended with the requirement of beating three champions and their support. That is not a personal story. Personal ended long ago. It's a group story and should be called that.

[Fueki.4753]

> @"Tumult.2578" said:

> My personal story ended with the requirement of beating three champions and their support. That is not a personal story. Personal ended long ago. It's a group story and should be called that.

In what story mission did you have to fight three champions? I can't remember such a situation.

[Teratus.2859]

Guess it depends on your build.

 

Sustain and survivability goes a long way in this game.

I've always said as much even back when the meta mentality was you're playing the game "wrong" if you're not playing a full zerk glass canon..

 

I always hated that mindset, and really enjoyed watching those kinds of players getting destroyed when HoT first came out and Elite Mordrem just obliterated glass canon builds xD

That was really amusing to watch, as was all the salt about it.

[castlemanic.3198]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> If the game did a better job at naturally ramping up the mechanical complexity and teaching players the game mechanics instead of either plateauing at the lowest denominator or presenting as frustrating wall of difficulty, that wouldn't ruin the game for players like you, quite the opposite.

 

I agree that this is the biggest issue the game faces. As a casual veteran, I'm sure there's a lot that I don't yet understand about the game. I can solo any story content so far and haven't run into issues most of the time. But I understand break bars, i understand boss mechanics and I've played through lots of open world content with other players so i know how the mechanics generally work. but the game does nothing in terms of preparing you gear, skill bar or traits wise. the fact that the strongest players can do 10x the damage of weak players is a failure of the game itself, because the game is failing to prepare people accurately for the content.

 

If there was a proper tutorial instance where players could go at any time to get an understanding of the games core mechanics (including break bars, orange circles and forcing players to read enemy and event descriptions), it would help a lot of players get into the flow of the game better. In my opinion, the devs should also shave off useless gear types that bring down the damage that players use. If cleric's gear isn't sufficient to play the game, then it shouldn't exist because it'll only throw off players who wish to prioritize the wrong stats and they won't know any better or why they're having a hard time killing enemies.

 

that way everyone can get what they want, the story can get harder gradually as people get used to and overcome more difficult challenges.

[battledrone.8315]

a tutorial will only help a minority. i know what a breakbar is. the problem is, that i dont want to pay for the pleasure of breaking it. and i am pretty sure, that the average player dont give a hoot either. its a stupid idea too, like using tear gas and caltrops against a TANK.