*Pokes Devs* Can we help druid out?

[mistsim.2748]

Druid was a nicely designed elite, and I miss playing it. Now that its healing had been gutted, can we start adding some damage back in?

 

An example of what could be done is adding some condis to staff. For example bleeds and poison on #4, and a single burn on the final tick of staff #1.

 

Druids cannot bunker well right now, and it would be nice if they could be played as a hybrid support/dps for team fights. Rangers have enough dueling capabilities as is.

 

Can you guys create a vision of what druid is supposed to be in PvP and WvW? Thx.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> Druid was a nicely designed elite

 

Found your problem. Druid was a poorly designed elite. If CA is intended to be strong, it needs to be extremely rare, which is the state its currently in. If CA needs to be used frequently, then it has to be very weak. If you don't do either of those things, then you have a core ranger with a very strong bonus elite skill.

[mistsim.2748]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > Druid was a nicely designed elite

>

> Found your problem. Druid was a poorly designed elite. If CA is intended to be strong, it needs to be extremely rare, which is the state its currently in. If CA needs to be used frequently, then it has to be very weak. If you don't do either of those things, then you have a core ranger with a very strong bonus elite skill.

 

Did you play when HoT released? CA was relatively weak and easily/frequently accessible. This was fun to me.

 

Your post doesn't address design. You're talking about balancing.

 

CA rework is one of the balance changes I would expect. I say gut the whole thing, and rework all its abilities.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > Druid was a nicely designed elite

>

> Found your problem. Druid was a poorly designed elite. If CA is intended to be strong, it needs to be extremely rare, which is the state its currently in. If CA needs to be used frequently, then it has to be very weak. If you don't do either of those things, then you have a core ranger with a very strong bonus elite skill.

 

Except that CA Kit isn't strong at all even while wearing heal stat amulets. A Holosmith can wear Demolisher and self sustain better than a Druid.

 

For those who haven't yet, click & read my signature for an in depth look into quite exactly what is wrong with Druid.

[mistsim.2748]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > > @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > > Druid was a nicely designed elite

> >

> > Found your problem. Druid was a poorly designed elite. If CA is intended to be strong, it needs to be extremely rare, which is the state its currently in. If CA needs to be used frequently, then it has to be very weak. If you don't do either of those things, then you have a core ranger with a very strong bonus elite skill.

>

> Except that CA Kit isn't strong at all even while wearing heal stat amulets. A Holosmith can wear Demolisher and self sustain better than a Druid.

>

> For those who haven't yet, click & read my signature for an in depth look into quite exactly what is wrong with Druid.

 

I've read. I just want them to see a fresh post about it. Outright murdering an elite spec that was once solid is completely unacceptable.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> Outright murdering an elite spec that was once solid is completely unacceptable.

 

Wait a minute, this sounds familiar.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> Did you play when HoT released?

Yes

> CA was relatively weak and easily/frequently accessible.

It was only weak compared to maybe the unkillable chrono bunker.

 

> Your post doesn't address design. You're talking about balancing.

Design and balancing are inseparable. I can design something which always wins. That's bad design. Design needs to consider the power level relative to what already exists.

 

> CA rework is one of the balance changes I would expect. I say gut the whole thing, and rework all its abilities.

I'll agree. My point was that with the current design, there are no good options. Druid is likely left in this "Smiter's Boon" state until the redesign can happen.

 

However, the PvP team can't re-design directly. They can only tweak numbers and provide input/ feedback to the group who does profession design.

 

 

[HeadCrowned.6834]

They wont give druid dps, as the quite recent nerf of pet dmg by 20% indicates. They just figured they had to reduce all healing coefficients with the big patch, so they did that unnecesarily to druid as well. You should aim for better support and sustain capabilities, I highly doubt they would give the spec any dps. Also, we have other traitlines for that. It would make more sense to buff its support than its dps.

[Dantheman.3589]

Druid will not become a hybrid support dps for teams it’s just not possible. For one CA isn’t that good at healing and it locks u out of using skills so you would become just a way worse version of firebrand which already fell out of meta as support. Bunker will be the best thing atm, I believe rn a longbow ancient seeds build would be not bad, but I would only bring that to ranked tbh.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Why? So the devs can make druid viable for a month before people in the community realize it's a challenge and requires thinking to fight and whine till it gets nerfed into a more useless state then it's ever been?

This is on game u should be careful what u wish for lol.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Druid doesn't need a bunch of DPS, just a little bit. Staff as it is now, is by far the worst weapon kit in the game. Not only does Staff have a tremendous lack of damage output, but the intended heal output for that weapon kit is bad, and in no way makes up for the complete lack of damage output. All Staff is, is a water field and a blast finisher. An Ele in water attunement with any weapon has more damage/heal than that. A Necromancer with Dagger and Blood Line has much more damage and self sustain granted than Druid Staff grants, and that's not to mention all of the other massive sources of sheer raw sustain and life steal than Necromancer has, as well as its team support abilities that actually matter that are actually strong. Guardian spits random boons all over the place with its weapon skills, and in some cases healing. Even some Rev builds have weapon strike tied healing with weapon skills, that still deal a ton of damage output.

 

But yeah w/e, I stand by my suggestions made in the thread link in my signature.

 

@"mistsim.2748" also mentioned in that thread about buffing Staff damage, which I agree with. There is no reason why Staff should have seriously 1/10th the damage of every other weapon in the game.

[mistsim.2748]

> @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> Druid will not become a hybrid support dps for teams it’s just not possible. For one CA isn’t that good at healing and it locks u out of using skills so you would become just a way worse version of firebrand which already fell out of meta as support. Bunker will be the best thing atm, I believe rn a longbow ancient seeds build would be not bad, but I would only bring that to ranked tbh.

 

What do you mean by not possible?

 

I'm saying if coefficients and Druid's support capabilities remain the same, then they need to add a little bit of damage back in. They gutted both damage output and healing, killing the spec. As I was discussing with Trevor, adding a couple of condis to staff is the perfect way to do so, it is a trashfire weapon rn. I don't want druid to be a bunker, because we're moving away from that.

 

Ancient Seeds Longbow isn't really a thing right now, because CA is in such a bad shape. The little root on a 20s cd just isn't enough relative to what core and SB bring to the table, and the rest of the kit is subpar (glyphs, CA).

 

Tldr; keep healing coefficients the same. Add condis to staff and maybe even CA skills. Balance around the Sage amulet, and you have a support/DPS hybrid. Done deal.

 

Edit:

 

Regarding the pet dilemma. Seriously guys, just remove pets from Druid elite. Add damage to the Druid's weapons and abilities. Pets are already important for core and SB, they don't need to be part of Druid mechanics because he has CA to manage. Buff CA utility and damage, leave healing as is.

[TeqkOneStylez.8047]

staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

[Dantheman.3589]

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> > @"Dantheman.3589" said:

> > Druid will not become a hybrid support dps for teams it’s just not possible. For one CA isn’t that good at healing and it locks u out of using skills so you would become just a way worse version of firebrand which already fell out of meta as support. Bunker will be the best thing atm, I believe rn a longbow ancient seeds build would be not bad, but I would only bring that to ranked tbh.

>

> What do you mean by not possible?

>

> I'm saying if coefficients and Druid's support capabilities remain the same, then they need to add a little bit of damage back in. They gutted both damage output and healing, killing the spec. As I was discussing with Trevor, adding a couple of condis to staff is the perfect way to do so, it is a trashfire weapon rn. I don't want druid to be a bunker, because we're moving away from that.

>

> Ancient Seeds Longbow isn't really a thing right now, because CA is in such a bad shape. The little root on a 20s cd just isn't enough relative to what core and SB bring to the table, and the rest of the kit is subpar (glyphs, CA).

>

> Tldr; keep healing coefficients the same. Add condis to staff and maybe even CA skills. Balance around the Sage amulet, and you have a support/DPS hybrid. Done deal.

>

> Edit:

>

> Regarding the pet dilemma. Seriously guys, just remove pets from Druid elite. Add damage to the Druid's weapons and abilities. Pets are already important for core and SB, they don't need to be part of Druid mechanics because he has CA to manage. Buff CA utility and damage, leave healing as is.

 

If they add damage back in it won’t be used at all for team fighting. At least atm druid with ancient seeds etc is seeing a little use in ranked. But it’s use is as a 1v1er not a team fighter and all that’ll happen if u increase damage is make the few ppl that play it in ranked a little happier, but if we remove pets as u suggest druid will be 100% dead.

Conclusion: no thank u

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

 

Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

 

The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

 

* Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

* Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

* Staff 3 - Give it the damn evade frame back.

* Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

* Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

 

^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

[Math.5123]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> > staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

>

> Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

>

> The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

>

> * Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

> * Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

> * Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.

> * Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

> * Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

>

> ^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

 

It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> > staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

>

> Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

>

> The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

>

> * Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

> * Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

> * Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.

> * Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

> * Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

>

> ^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

 

I'm not sure, but staff is a support weapon, looking at skills, why it should do damage aswell? Why you want to cheese druid?

Druid is support, do you understand that? S U P P O R T

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> > > staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

> >

> > Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

> >

> > The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

> >

> > * Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

> > * Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

> > * Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.

> > * Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

> > * Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

> >

> > ^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

>

> It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation.

 

Then they can go right ahead and give Staff #3 its evade frame back. Tyvm.

 

 

 

> @"TrollingDemigod.3041" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> > > staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

> >

> > Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

> >

> > The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

> >

> > * Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

> > * Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

> > * Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.

> > * Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

> > * Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

> >

> > ^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

>

> I'm not sure, but staff is a support weapon, looking at skills, why it should do damage aswell? Why you want to cheese druid?

> Druid is support, do you understand that? S U P P O R T

>

 

Druid is not a support in pvp but it should be.

 

Firebrand is a support. Yet it gets Axe, which grants it one of the hardest hitting CC burst in the game.

 

Tempest is a support. Yet its weapon skills gained and every other thing it does, deals a lot of damage.

 

Both of which ^ are far better supports than a Druid.

 

Druid can only 1v1 duel in pvp because its support capability sucks for every reason I have listed in the link in my signature, and it deals no damage.

[apharma.3741]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> > > staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

> >

> > Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

> >

> > The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

> >

> > * Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

> > * Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

> > * Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.

> > * Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

> > * Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

> >

> > ^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

>

> It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

 

Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

 

Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.

Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

 

It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> > > > staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

> > >

> > > Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

> > >

> > > The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

> > >

> > > * Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

> > > * Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

> > > * Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.

> > > * Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

> > > * Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

> > >

> > > ^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

> >

> > It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

>

> Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

>

> Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

> Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.

> Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

>

> It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

 

Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

 

This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

 

So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

[lare.5129]

> @"mistsim.2748" said:

> Druid was a nicely designed elite, and I miss playing it.

you can still play driud if like it. This not mena that you will be top player, but you still can play.

 

> Now that its healing had been gutted, can we start adding some damage back in?

for that reason ? All get mostly same nerf, so only one thing can be - nerf more damage on druid!

 

> Druids cannot bunker well right now

yes, they should be meat for another players. This is ok.

 

> Can you guys create a vision of what druid is supposed to be in PvP and WvW?

fresh meat for warrior and necro, and this is very ok ! I call that balance.

Some classes some time shoudl be less than some meta, so nowadays good time for skilled people try driud, and get fun.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> > > > > staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

> > > >

> > > > Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

> > > >

> > > > The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

> > > >

> > > > * Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

> > > > * Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

> > > > * Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.

> > > > * Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

> > > > * Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

> > > >

> > > > ^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

> > >

> > > It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

> >

> > Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

> >

> > Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

> > Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.

> > Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

> >

> > It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

>

> Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

>

> This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

>

> So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

 

It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

 

If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics. You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

 

Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

 

The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> > > > > > staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

> > > > >

> > > > > Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

> > > > >

> > > > > The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

> > > > >

> > > > > * Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

> > > > > * Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

> > > > > * Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.

> > > > > * Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

> > > > > * Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

> > > > >

> > > > > ^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

> > > >

> > > > It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

> > >

> > > Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

> > >

> > > Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

> > > Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.

> > > Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

> > >

> > > It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

> >

> > Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

> >

> > This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

> >

> > So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

>

> It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

>

> **If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.** You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

>

> Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

>

> The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

 

On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

 

If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

 

Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

 

Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > > > > @"TeqkOneStylez.8047" said:

> > > > > > > staff 1 auto attack used to compete with longbow auto (I tested ). Now it competes with perma quickness chain CC.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Staff 1 auto hits like a CC skill that was nerfed to .01 coefficient, except it doesn't actually have a CC tied into it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The Staff is actually so bad that it couldn't hurt to toss it a few pick me ups such as:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * Staff 1 - Turn the damage up a little bit.

> > > > > > * Staff 2 - Keep it the same but add a 2 stacks of 1s of burn vs. the enemy that is tagged with the skill.

> > > > > > * Staff 3 - Give it the kitten evade frame back.

> > > > > > * Staff 4 - Rather than removing immob from yourself with the vines, the vines should bleed/poison/torment/immob for 1s each.

> > > > > > * Staff 5 - This can stay the same.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ^ Even with changes like that, Shortbow stays the superior condi weapon and Dagger/Torch the superior condi swap. The Staff is primarily a survival tool and it doesn't need a ton of added damage, but it does need some damage added. Right now the Staff's damage output is so negligent that it may as well not have damage at all.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's almost as if .... It's designed to not do damage. But having a focus around support, mobility and mitigation. Kinda like Guardian staff. Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay.

> > > >

> > > > Agreed, I said it before in another thread, the problem is all supports in this game don't have niches or clear advantages and disadvantages vs each other.

> > > >

> > > > Druid should be a fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

> > > > Tempest a slow moving AoE healer and cleanse bot.

> > > > Firebrand less healing than Tempest, slightly less AoE but brings more boons and active damage mitigation, also slow moving.

> > > >

> > > > It'd be hard balancing the latter 2 but Druid should be easy enough.

> > >

> > > Agree on the idea, but if you read the link in my signature, you'll see why that isn't going to ever happen for competitive modes. They would need to do a complete overhaul & rework from the ground up on Druid, if it was to be able to keep up with FB or Tempest as a viable combat support. The suggestions made in my signature are the closest thing you're going to find that would work, to turn Druid into fast rotating focused healer/buffer/debuffer.

> > >

> > > This is what I mean though, about Druid suggestions coming from players who do not play Druid. Everyone throws these philosophical based suggestions around the idea of "Making Druid the support it was supposed to be" and that's great but there is an incredible lack of understanding of how Druid actually works in those kinds of suggestions. It's kind of like if someone said: "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" which for that to work, would require an entirely new specialization line with a lot of very weird utilities & weapon added, or a complete rework/overhaul from the ground up on one of the existing elite specs.

> > >

> > > So if Arenanet is not willing to overhaul the entire elite spec, it's time to accept what Druid is, and that is a 1v1 duelist or side node bunker. If you notice, all of the Druid players are looking at this differently than non Druid players. For the most part, Druid players are looking at it for what it is, and simply requesting that it is buffed out of the current state of complete ineptitude that Arenanet has left it in. An overhaul would be cool, but at this point Druid players are tired of wasting time with theorcraft reworks, and are settling on asking for well deserved buffing in small areas.

> >

> > It's almost as if the first iterations of most elite specs were janky and all over the place and missed their mark completely.

> >

> > **If you think saying "druid should be the healer it was supposed to be" is in any way comparable to saying "I want a Thief that plays like a Necromancer" it only shows your complete lack of understand about mechanics.** You cannot make a thief into a necro easily because of the mechanical difference between the two (stealth, mobility, 2nd health bar to name just a few blatantly obvious ones), you can however make a ranger into a healer, in fact you can make most classes into healers as it's a much broader category.

> >

> > Ranger already has great mobility, CA already heals with every skill it has, gut the disgusting parts that no-one enjoys and make it not able to 1v1 without losing like all other supports. Staff needs a tune up and the problem of "Invest into pet and self healing" to generate CA needs addressing but you don't shy away from the right choice because it's hard Mr Boyer, that's what cowards do.

> >

> > The problem with listening to Druid suggestions from ranger players is their AI isn't coded very well and gets stuck a lot.

>

> On the contrary, that is what I meant in my original response to you. Having hopeful thoughts of the Druid becoming a team support competitively isn't possible because it shares the same kinds of problems that a Thief has trying to be like a Necromancer. You aren't understanding that the mechanics of Core Ranger and how Druid is currently designed, doesn't work out for competitive mode support play.

>

> If you haven't taken the 3 minutes to read through "why" in my signature link, you should. It explains everything, which is why I wrote it, for the event of someone wanting to discuss this exact topic. So instead of taking the apathic route and continuing to argue with everything the Druid mains say as a non Druid player, you should take the time to read that link. You'll understand where I'm coming from and what Druid mains are saying when they are trying to point out that Druid needs slight buffing in small areas, not a huge massive overhaul.

>

> Most Druid mains are fine with the way the class works mechanically/functionally. Some of us LIKE the way it works and do not want any overhauls. When we suggest small buffs, we are suggesting the idea of keeping Druid the same but making it viable again for what it is. Discussing class overhauls is another issue entirely. Some of us would love to see a major rework, but that is in the immediate, not what Druid mains are asking for. We are simply asking for small buffs in the immediate, so the class can work again.

>

> Two separate discussions, buffs vs. overhauls. This thread was a discussion about buffs not overhauls. Kind of important to point that out.

 

Why would I click your link which no doubt contains some 2,000 word explanation when I already think most of your replies aren't worth reading and skim through if I need to for context? You don't have any insights that I consider worthwhile looking at like how you were making claims about ranger vs necro which were outright wrong which for a ranger main and memeber of the "enlightened community" only reinforces that idea.

 

Druid mains like it now but who else likes druid and has ever liked fighting druid? AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said it best with "Honestly, I wouldn't hate to see Druid become decent again if the grandmasters all weren't complete cancer to play against. It's either blind spam or pulsing immob, neither is fun to play vs. Full cleanses and stealth reset was also peak gameplay." Which is the problem, druid has always been unfun, first it was insta rez with SaR, then reset every 10s with CA and CS and immob spam from AS until it was nerfed hard enough but the traits still remain ready to be unfun again.

 

Funny the title says "*Pokes Devs* Can we help druid out?" I don't see anything that precludes reworks, yet again you miss the mark and reinforce what I said.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Step 1. Make staff playable.