Swinging a sword: Yea or nay?

[Mortifera.6138]

Guild Wars 2 is about doing more than just swinging a sword. The result is lots of mini-games in Fractals and ‘F’ pressing everywhere. Lots of circle on the ground mechanics, too. Do you like this design?

 

I, personally, do not like gw2 imitating platformers and other games that it is not. I just want to kill bad guys. But I’m sure some people are happy doing something other than killing mobs.

 

Which boat are you in?

[WDBoldstar.7649]

MMOs in general, and GW2 in specific, have always had a little bit more in their DNA. Crafting, exploration, and socialization are all expected base parts of the genre, and GW2 in particular has put heavy emphasis on exploring via map completion and the need to find hero points to max your character, and platforming via Jumping Puzzles that can be found at all stages of the game, including the base game's opening zones.

 

At the risk of sounding harsh, I feel like if you "just want to kill bad guys," as you put it, you are best off logging out of GW2 and playing a game like Diablo or a FPS that are very specifically about mowing down waves of bad guys with various weaponry and not much else, though even those will often expect you to navigate a map or solve basic puzzles.

 

[Naxos.2503]

To me, the appeal of guild wars 2 comes from the diversity of gameplay available. No other MMos, or Indeed game, has subjected me to the torture of puzzle jumps. And now I consider myself pretty good at it. It's also fairly uncommon to be granted different skills than your class skills if only for a bit of time, and that is also something games seldom do at all. Of course, I enjoy a good scrap. The meatier, the better, but I wont turn away a change of pace when I need to. Guild wars 2 has a rather unique engine that let's it do a Lot of interesting stuff. It's something you dont find in most MMos, even the more modern ones.

[Randulf.7614]

I wouldn’t play it if I didn’t. Zero point playing a game I didn’t enjoy the very core aspect of considering the wealth of games out there.

 

This is an mmo and is meant to have those other things

[Obliviscaris.6937]

How long have you been playing?

[Danikat.8537]

One of the things I've always enjoyed about RPGs is the variety. Sometimes you just have to fight your way through the bad guys, other times you have to talk your way through a problem or solve a puzzle, or do a variety of things together. Similarly the combat often requires different tactics depending on what you're fighting, so part of beating the boss (or even a large group of normal enemies) is about working out what's most effective.

 

If I just wanted to play a mindless hack and slash game I wouldn't be playing an RPG, and especially not an MMO which (as other people have said) tends to add all kinds of other activities to do as well.

[Xyroxis.2509]

I think there's much more than just pressing F.

You should try guild puzzles sometime.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Mortifera.6138" said:

> Guild Wars 2 is about doing more than just swinging a sword. The result is lots of mini-games in Fractals and ‘F’ pressing everywhere. Lots of circle on the ground mechanics, too. Do you like this design?

>

> I, personally, do not like gw2 imitating platformers and other games that it is not. I just want to kill bad guys. But I’m sure some people are happy doing something other than killing mobs.

>

> Which boat are you in?

 

I enjoy the combat, certainly. I also have my issues with the "circle-on-the-ground" design, but mostly with regard to the non-trinity design. They tried to shoehorn in healing roles. The problem is the game's core design does not support it, so "healing" in GW2 is nothing more than spamming area effects while everyone stacks in a pile.

 

Thankfully, they haven't really attempted to do the same with tanking, as the lame workarounds they've come up with to overcome the lack of any useful threat mechanics has already shown us what a fail that would be! This mostly ruins the raiding experience for me and it's the one game mode I almost never participate in. It's a little odd for me because raiding was my focus much of the time when I played WoW!

 

As for all that quirky weirdness? I love it and hate it, but there's so much of it I end up enjoying enough of it that I can't really advocate for having less of it available for everyone else! It's part of what makes this place what it is. It's not all good or all bad. But it is very Guild Wars 2!

 

 

[Maikimaik.1974]

A hack and slay game would propably be more suitable for you, as the variety of content and mechanics is propably one of the main reasons people enjoy the MMORPG genre.

GW2, and the whole genre itself, might just not be your kind of game. And that's totally fine.

[Taril.8619]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> They tried to shoehorn in healing roles. The problem is the game's core design does not support it, so "healing" in GW2 is nothing more than spamming area effects while everyone stacks in a pile.

 

And that's different to every other Trinity MMO's healing... How?

:p

 

On Topic:

 

Stuff that can break up combat can be refreshing at times. For hacky slashy gameplay there's plenty of OW events that just want you to cut down swaths of enemies, or MMO's built entirely around it (Such as BDO)

 

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Mortifera.6138" said:

> I, personally, do not like gw2 **imitating platformers and other games that it is not**.

 

??? Sorry, you lost me there.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > They tried to shoehorn in healing roles. The problem is the game's core design does not support it, so "healing" in GW2 is nothing more than spamming area effects while everyone stacks in a pile.

>

> And that's different to every other Trinity MMO's healing... How?

 

Other MMOs allow you to select an allied character and heal them specifically rather than relying on aoe heals. They feel entirely different to GW2s healing and allows for more complex encounters and mechanics.

 

[Taril.8619]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > They tried to shoehorn in healing roles. The problem is the game's core design does not support it, so "healing" in GW2 is nothing more than spamming area effects while everyone stacks in a pile.

> >

> > And that's different to every other Trinity MMO's healing... How?

>

> Other MMOs allow you to select an allied character and heal them specifically rather than relying on aoe heals. They feel entirely different to GW2s healing and allows for more complex encounters and mechanics.

>

 

They allow you to do that. But more often than not, it ends up devolving back down to "Everyone stack up for the AoE heals!" due to how throughput works (Also, Raid design heavily leaning on "Errybody get hit!" mechanics)

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > They tried to shoehorn in healing roles. The problem is the game's core design does not support it, so "healing" in GW2 is nothing more than spamming area effects while everyone stacks in a pile.

>

> And that's different to every other Trinity MMO's healing... How?

> :p

>

> On Topic:

>

> Stuff that can break up combat can be refreshing at times. For hacky slashy gameplay there's plenty of OW events that just want you to cut down swaths of enemies, or MMO's built entirely around it (Such as BDO)

>

 

When a game is designed with healing roles in mind, the class design, UI, and combat mechanics in general are designed around that concept as opposed to one like GW2's, where that was never intended. Thus we spam area effects. That's it. That's "healing" in GW2. Targeted effects that benefit other players don't exist because players have their own healing, defense, and evasion with the expectation that they can mostly take care of themselves. The UI doesn't have the tools to spot heal, cleanse, buff, and throw critical protection at specific targets. This severely the limits the range of what healers can do, which is why they feel like a weak parody of a true healer role. It was just never part of the design here.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > They tried to shoehorn in healing roles. The problem is the game's core design does not support it, so "healing" in GW2 is nothing more than spamming area effects while everyone stacks in a pile.

> > >

> > > And that's different to every other Trinity MMO's healing... How?

> >

> > Other MMOs allow you to select an allied character and heal them specifically rather than relying on aoe heals. They feel entirely different to GW2s healing and allows for more complex encounters and mechanics.

> >

>

> They allow you to do that. But more often than not, it ends up devolving back down to "Everyone stack up for the AoE heals!" due to how throughput works (Also, Raid design heavily leaning on "Errybody get hit!" mechanics)

 

It's true that some encounters in trinity games are poorly designed and encourage over-reliance on stack-and-spam healing. It is generally agreed by the players of these games that this is not ideal. Meanwhile, ALL encounters in GW2 are this way entirely, not just in part, and couldn't be otherwise. That's a pretty glaring issue for me.

 

I don't propose any fix or change to the way things work because I enjoy it in everything else, but non-trinity raiding feels like most of the group dynamics that I enjoy in raiding are missing.

 

Edit: I also want to point out that we haven't even gotten into the complete lack of anything resembling tanking. Slapping on toughness gear and sponging damage is "tanking" just the same way spamming area effects is "healing". Yeah, it fulfills the sketchiest outline of what the role actually means in a trinity MMO. That's not even close. And with both corners of that triangle missing, there's not much left. GW2 didn't really add anything that trinity MMOs don't have, but it took away everything that made raiding enjoyable, in my opinion.

 

Yeah, it's that bad for me. The combat here is far better than WoW is or ever was. This is a way better game, in my opinion. But it was not designed for raiding. Go ahead and develop raids. I never begrudge anyone else the content they enjoy! It just isn't for me, and I wish that weren't the case because I really used to enjoy raiding in WoW.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > > @"Taril.8619" said:

> > > > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > > > They tried to shoehorn in healing roles. The problem is the game's core design does not support it, so "healing" in GW2 is nothing more than spamming area effects while everyone stacks in a pile.

> > >

> > > And that's different to every other Trinity MMO's healing... How?

> >

> > Other MMOs allow you to select an allied character and heal them specifically rather than relying on aoe heals. They feel entirely different to GW2s healing and allows for more complex encounters and mechanics.

> >

>

> They allow you to do that. But more often than not, it ends up devolving back down to "Everyone stack up for the AoE heals!" due to how throughput works (Also, Raid design heavily leaning on "Errybody get hit!" mechanics)

 

Dunno about the games you've played but that's not my experience.

[Taril.8619]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> It's true that some encounters in trinity games are poorly designed and encourage over-reliance on stack-and-spam healing. It is generally agreed by the players of these games that this is not ideal. Meanwhile, ALL encounters in GW2 are this way entirely, not just in part, and couldn't be otherwise. That's a pretty glaring issue for me.

>

> I don't propose any fix or change to the way things work because I enjoy it in everything else, but non-trinity raiding feels like most of the group dynamics that I enjoy in raiding are missing.

>

> Edit: I also want to point out that we haven't even gotten into the complete lack of anything resembling tanking. Slapping on toughness gear and sponging damage is "tanking" just the same way spamming area effects is "healing". Yeah, it fulfills the sketchiest outline of what the role actually means in a trinity MMO. That's not even close. And with both corners of that triangle missing, there's not much left. GW2 didn't really add anything that trinity MMOs don't have, but it took away everything that made raiding enjoyable, in my opinion.

 

Though, unfortunately, it's a trend among modern day MMO's to really devolve Tanking and Healing roles into their bare minimum... Which often makes a lot of them no better than GW2 and it's very crude system it has had to implement in order to be able to make things like Fractals and Raids somewhat functional.

 

Too many games these days have you "Tank" by sitting there in "Tank Stance" and that's about it. Since they automatically give you like +1000000 threat modifier and then mechanics are "When boss does big attack, you press CD button" and the rest of the time, you play exactly like a DPS (Only with crap damage since otherwise DPS players cry when you outperform them...)

 

While in the same vein, they also have been stripping down healing mechanics too, with reduced need to spot heal, cleanse, apply shields/barriers and more emphasis on "That person will live until the next AoE, so I won't heal them until I do my AoE heal" - With some still using small AoEs that need people to stack for, while others have given AoE's such large radii that no-one has to think about positioning ever...

 

It's one of the core things that's missing from Trinity games these days. Devs have catered too much towards DPS and have forgotten how to make things actually interesting for Tanks and Healers, as a result they end up trying to make Tanks and Healers play like DPS but with occasional extra buttons to press (Defensive CD's, AoE Heals respectively)

 

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> Dunno about the games you've played but that's not my experience.

 

I've played most MMO's. Many of which, throughout their lifespan.

 

Back in the day, healing was more interactive. With cleanses, single target heals, resource management, cooldown managment and a plethora of other mechanics (Such as back in TBC era WoW where Paladin could use Hand of Sacrifice to take damage in order to break a Sleep effect a boss applied and continue healing while the big AoE was being charged up)

 

These days, much more focus is on unavoidable AoE damage and being responded by having healers spam AoE heals...

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

>

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > Dunno about the games you've played but that's not my experience.

>

> I've played most MMO's. Many of which, throughout their lifespan.

>

> Back in the day, healing was more interactive. With cleanses, single target heals, resource management, cooldown managment and a plethora of other mechanics (Such as back in TBC era WoW where Paladin could use Hand of Sacrifice to take damage in order to break a Sleep effect a boss applied and continue healing while the big AoE was being charged up)

>

> These days, much more focus is on unavoidable AoE damage and being responded by having healers spam AoE heals...

 

Ah that's it then. Most of my experience with raid healing is from Vanilla to early Cataclysm era WoW before it got terribly spammy.

 

Now that I think about it, apart from briefly playing Wildstar, I haven't really played other MMOs since then so I yield to your greater experience.

 

It seems like a definite dumbing down though, turning healing into something like a DPS rotation. Or a HPS rotation, I suppose.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Taril.8619" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > It's true that some encounters in trinity games are poorly designed and encourage over-reliance on stack-and-spam healing. It is generally agreed by the players of these games that this is not ideal. Meanwhile, ALL encounters in GW2 are this way entirely, not just in part, and couldn't be otherwise. That's a pretty glaring issue for me.

> >

> > I don't propose any fix or change to the way things work because I enjoy it in everything else, but non-trinity raiding feels like most of the group dynamics that I enjoy in raiding are missing.

> >

> > Edit: I also want to point out that we haven't even gotten into the complete lack of anything resembling tanking. Slapping on toughness gear and sponging damage is "tanking" just the same way spamming area effects is "healing". Yeah, it fulfills the sketchiest outline of what the role actually means in a trinity MMO. That's not even close. And with both corners of that triangle missing, there's not much left. GW2 didn't really add anything that trinity MMOs don't have, but it took away everything that made raiding enjoyable, in my opinion.

>

> Though, unfortunately, it's a trend among modern day MMO's to really devolve Tanking and Healing roles into their bare minimum... Which often makes a lot of them no better than GW2 and it's very crude system it has had to implement in order to be able to make things like Fractals and Raids somewhat functional.

>

> Too many games these days have you "Tank" by sitting there in "Tank Stance" and that's about it. Since they automatically give you like +1000000 threat modifier and then mechanics are "When boss does big attack, you press CD button" and the rest of the time, you play exactly like a DPS (Only with kitten damage since otherwise DPS players cry when you outperform them...)

>

> While in the same vein, they also have been stripping down healing mechanics too, with reduced need to spot heal, cleanse, apply shields/barriers and more emphasis on "That person will live until the next AoE, so I won't heal them until I do my AoE heal" - With some still using small AoEs that need people to stack for, while others have given AoE's such large radii that no-one has to think about positioning ever...

>

> It's one of the core things that's missing from Trinity games these days. Devs have catered too much towards DPS and have forgotten how to make things actually interesting for Tanks and Healers, as a result they end up trying to make Tanks and Healers play like DPS but with occasional extra buttons to press (Defensive CD's, AoE Heals respectively)

>

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > Dunno about the games you've played but that's not my experience.

>

> I've played most MMO's. Many of which, throughout their lifespan.

>

> Back in the day, healing was more interactive. With cleanses, single target heals, resource management, cooldown managment and a plethora of other mechanics (Such as back in TBC era WoW where Paladin could use Hand of Sacrifice to take damage in order to break a Sleep effect a boss applied and continue healing while the big AoE was being charged up)

>

> These days, much more focus is on unavoidable AoE damage and being responded by having healers spam AoE heals...

 

I don't play anything other than GW2 these days, but I played WoW Vanilla-WotLK and was pretty big into raiding and PvP. I played all roles, but generally preferred tanking with healing secondary in PvE while preferring the healer role in PvP. So, I am not unfamiliar. If things have gone that way, then it's a shame. I still don't give GW2 raiding a pass on this. Poor design is poor design, whether it's a consequence of something I really enjoy everywhere else in the game or not!

 

Like I said, this game wasn't build for raiding and it shows. It's still better than WoW or anything else I've tried. I just don't really bother with raiding and instead enjoy everything else!

 

On that WoW stuff, it's all kind of hazy now it's been so long since I've played. But I definitely recall enjoying prot warrior best, but paladin gave the most control. Deathknight was really quite enjoyable to play, but I preferred it as an off-tank at that time (no idea what it's like now!). I did check in later, during WoD for a little bit and got to try brewmaster monk for tanking and wow! The roll move felt like GW2 combat a little bit! The resource management felt great, too. Just all around fun to play! The only tank I ever felt meh about in WoW was the druid. I strongly preferred druid as a healer, where I felt it was just so much more enjoyable!

 

Anyway, nice to remember a game I once loved to play! GW2 is my game now. I'll just be doing more PvP/WvW and open world/story type stuff is all!

 

 

[Trise.2865]

> @"Mortifera.6138" said:

> Guild Wars 2 is about doing more than just swinging a sword. The result is lots of mini-games in Fractals and ‘F’ pressing everywhere. Lots of circle on the ground mechanics, too. Do you like this design?

>

> I, personally, do not like gw2 imitating platformers and other games that it is not. I just want to kill bad guys. But I’m sure some people are happy doing something other than killing mobs.

 

The two aren't mutually exclusive, as you can plainly see.

 

> Which boat are you in?

 

The bay tour boat in Labyrinthine Cliffs. It's a lovely ride, if a bit quiet without a proper guide.